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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 08:10 PM
Original message
EU official backs Bolivia nationalisation
Source: BBC News

Page last updated at 23:51 GMT, Sunday, 9 May 2010 00:51 UK
EU official backs Bolivia nationalisation

A senior European Union official has said Bolivia has the right to nationalise companies as long as they are offered "fair compensation".

Kenneth Bell, the head of the EU delegation to Bolivia, said nationalisation was a sovereign right of the Bolivian government.

Mr Bell was speaking a week after the Bolivian president controversially seized four electricity companies.

Two of the plants were partly owned by a British and a French firm.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8671618.stm
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. what does the EU have to do with it?
:wtf:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. "Kenneth Bell, the head of the EU delegation to Bolivia, said nationalisation was a sovereign right"
It's written in the tiny article.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I meant
what authority does the EU have over Bolivia?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Who suggested the E.U. has authority over Bolivia? n/t
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Is reading the actual article before commenting *that* hard?
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I read it, and it didn't answer my question
I also double-checked my world map. Like i thought, Bolivia is not in Europe.
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whereaminow Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. A couple of members have some money to lose
Maybe the statement was a message(possibly to the US) to head off what happened to Chile on 9/11
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Alamuti Lotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. "Two of the plants were partly owned by a British and a French firm."
Edited on Mon May-10-10 12:11 AM by Alamuti Lotus
While there is certainly no authority, there is interest in the matter and this solicited a comment from a visiting delegation.. :shrug:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-10 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Background, May 1st nationalization:
Morales Nationalizes Bolivian Electricity
Written by Callan Hetterich
Monday, 03 May 2010 05:26

Morales takes control of five of the largest electricity companies in Bolivia, putting 80 percent of electricity production in the government’s hands



Four years to the day after declaring the nationalization of Bolivia’s natural gas reserves, Bolivian President Evo Morales used May 1st International Workers’ Day to announce the nationalization of five major electric companies, thus consolidating control over 80 percent of Bolivia’s electricity.

Military and police forces took control of the five electricity companies: Corani, Guaracachi, Valle Hermoso, Luz y Fuerza Eléctricade Cochabamba (ELFEC) and the energy transport company TDE immediately after Morales’ declaration.

The announcement sends a message of sovereignty to international and national investors who have dedicated enormous amounts of resources to develop Bolivia’s electrical grid. Official data acknowledges a US$686.6 million investment from external private electric industry in 2009, a figure that dropped 47 percent since 2008.

Companies Corani, Guaracachi, and Valle Hermoso have significant French and English capital investment. The Bolivian government has yet to specify the amount of compensation to be given to private investors. The nationalization has already incited protests in ELFEC, where workers own 40% of the company.

More:
http://www.santiagotimes.cl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18739:morales-nationalizes-bolivian-electricity&catid=48:other&Itemid=122
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cstanleytech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
10. Well of course they have the right, its kinda like eminent domain really however
the flip side of the coin is they might have shot themselves in the foot as far as getting many companies willing to invest in any kind of venture in their country now.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
11. Our own Supreme Court ruled something rather similar in the not
so distant past. Local governments can "nationalize" privately owned properties under redevelopment laws and then sell them to private companies provided there is just compensation.

This is not a new or shocking stance. We may not like it, but governments by definition have sovereign powers. Just compensation means fair compensation. There is nothing so unusual about this view.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. "We may not like it, but governments by definition have sovereign powers" ????.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but the sovereignty of THE PEOPLE has been a hard fought for principle of democracy--sovereignty over the East India Company and the mighty British Empire, for instance, in our own revolution, or, in the case of Latin America, sovereignty visa vis Exxon Mobil, Chevron, Bechtel, Monsanto, Dyncorp, Chiquita, the World Bank/IMF loan sharks, et al, and against U.S. topplings of democratic governments and support of fascist dictators, in the interest of these multinational corporations, and sovereignty in regard to the arrogant, militaristic, corrupt, failed, murderous U.S. "war on drugs."

We would do well to pull Exxon Mobil's corporate charter, dismantle the corporation and seize its assets for the public good. Instead, we stood helplessly by as Exxon Mobil and brethren hijacked the U.S. military for a corporate resource war.

Sovereignty of THE PEOPLE is a very, very important issue in Latin America. We have pretty much lost ours--even unto the very counting of our votes, which is now conducted largely by ONE, far rightwing-connected, private corporation (ES&S, which just bought out Diebold), with 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code and virtually no audit/recount controls. Latin Americans are seeking to establish their sovereignty--for instance with long hard work on honest, aboveboard, transparent elections--the key to the power of the people--the election of real representatives of the people, and their assertion of sovereign power, visa vis Exxon Mobil, for instance, in Venezuela, Bechtel Corp, in Bolivia and Dyncorp (the U.S. military base) in Ecuador.

Sovereignty is so fundamental to the leftist democracy movement in Latin America, and so critically important to social justice, that perhaps you missed the ways in which the BBC tries to undermine it in this article--for instance, its use of the phrased "controversially seized." It is not controversial in Bolivia, except to the corpo-fascist press and the small, rich, white separatist minority which tried to topple the democratically elected and hugely popular Morales government, with U.S. help, back in September 2008. That bloody insurrection was all about handing Bolivia's rich natural resources over to multinational corporations, with Bolivia's rich elite skimming off the top and neglecting and oppressing the poor majority. Multinational corporations, with the U.S. doing the leg work, actively seek to undermine and destroy the sovereignty of the people in third world countries. We are now a "third world" country, too, in many respects, and are seeing the ravages of predatory capitalism, with the rich getting richer and the rest of us becoming slave labor and "cannon fodder" if we are lucky enough to even have a job. We have seen corporations become monsters, living forever and gobbling up land and wealth--and then dictating to the government that was founded "of, by and for" the people but is now "of, by and for" the corporations, the war profiteers and the super-rich.

Again, maybe I misunderstood your phrase "we may not like it" (i.e., we may not like the sovereignty of the people any more). Perhaps you were thinking of a corrupt government using "eminent domain" to seize small properties--say, peoples' homes--say, for a freeway or other development that serves big business and big contractors, has not been democratically decided in any true sense and is conducted without fair compensation. We tend to think of individuals as monarchs in their domain--kings, queens of their homes, gardens, farms, small businesses--a faulty but understandable concept which tries to transfer sovereignty from big time kings and queens in "old Europe" to "the little guy." It is faulty in that the transfer of power is collective, not individual. We collectively declared our sovereignty, as A PEOPLE, over and against the old sovereignties (and their financial and trade cartels). AS A PEOPLE, we own the land, and we COLLECTIVELY decide on its use. We give permission for some of it to be privately owned; we regulate its use even when privately owned (for instance, environmental, health and building regulations); and we preserve some of it for parks, green belts, wildlife preserves, roads, ports, schools, hospitals, government buildings, etc. We also permit corporate businesses to be chartered (by the states--a rather big but understandable mistake of our Founders) and to "own" land, although they are not individuals, theoretically for the public good. That latter concept--the public good--has gone by the wayside, as to big wealthy corporations, and they now have far more rights than we the people do (something that out Founders would have been appalled at). They control the government and when the government takes and misuses our property--for instance, collecting taxes from us for unjust war and to enrich banksters and war profiteers--we have no recourse.

Latin American countries such as Bolivia, Ecuador and Venezuela are trying to rebalance their economies and governments in favor of "the people." From everything that I have read and researched, they are doing this very democratically. Their leaders are genuine representatives of the majority. They are not particularly radical--more like "New Dealers." And they are seeking to enforce the sovereignty of the people against U.S. interference, against multinational corporate interference, against often U.S. instigated fascist coups by local elites and against the wishes of corporate tools like the BBC--which has become as bad as Rotters, the Associated Pukes, the New York Slimes and the Miami Hairball, on Latin American issues.

Latin America is not only viewed as "our backyard" in Washington DC, it is viewed as major plundering ground by English and European multinationals and super-rich investors. These entities are very upset at the assertion of sovereignty of the people in Latin America, and they lie through their teeth trying to portray this phenomenon as tyranny. It is not. It is a rightful assertion of people power against private corporate power. It is the essence of democracy. It is not "controversial" to the vast poor majorities in Bolivia, Ecuador and Venezuela, where the democracy revolution in Latin America is strongest.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I think you misunderstood my post.
I was writing in support of the idea that Bolivia has the sovereign right to nationalize assets under its sovereign control provided that it complies with its laws. I understand from the OP that Bolivia is offering just compensation for the electricity company assets.

Whether Bolivia is a dictatorship or a democracy, if it is accepted as a sovereign state, its government has the rights of a sovereign over property within its state.

That is why investment in foreign countries is so risky. Corporations seem to have forgotten that.

That is also, I believe, why corporations pay so much to make Americans so paranoid and willing to work so hard to support a huge military. Yes, we need a strong military, but much of our military power is being used to secure the investments of huge corporations in various other countries. Those investments don't really serve any useful purpose for Americans. The increase in those investments has just decreased the jobs available in our country and reduced incentives to live within our means in terms of resources and population.

Bolivia has the right to organize its country as it wishes. That is the meaning of my post.

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I had a feeling that your sentence about sovereignty didn't quite say what you meant.
The issue of sovereignty in Latin America, and indeed here, is so important that I felt it needed discussion. I think that it is extremely important WHO is in control of the sovereign power of a government. If it's corrupt, anti-democratic leaders helping Monsanto, Chiquita and Occidental Petroleum--or the well-connected drug lords--to drive peasant farmers from their lands--driving them in the millions from their small plots of food producing land, by means of murder and terror--as is happening in Colombia--that is simply not the same thing as a democratically elected, and hugely and genuinely popular, leader, like Morales, using sovereign democratic powers to enact the will of the people as to what should be public and what should be private enterprise. The allegedly sovereign government of Colombia--propped up by $7 BILLION in U.S. military aid--is quite hostile to the true "sovereignty of the people" and is literally handing land, and, with it, Colombia's sovereignty, over to these multinationals and to the Pentagon, by means of mass murder and terror.

OR--another example--prior, U.S.-friendly and very corrupt governments of Venezuela were practically giving away the oil--Venezuela's main resource--to multinationals like Exxon Mobil, in a 10/90 split of the profits, favoring the multinationals, and skimming off the top for Venezuela's rich oil elite, while utterly neglecting education, health care and other common decencies for the poor majority. This rich elite controlled the government and its sovereign powers but used those powers to sell out their own country and their fellow and sister Venezuelans. Dick Cheney & cabal did the same thing here, basically handing the U.S. military over to the same multinational oil corp vultures. In neither case was this the sovereignty of THE PEOPLE.

When Chavez was elected he and his government began renegotiating the oil contracts eventually achieving a 50/50 split of the profits, with Venezuela's portion designated for social programs, and 60/40 Venezuelan control of the projects. Exxon Mobil walked out of the talks--and tried to seize $12 billion of Venezuela's assets as punishment--and in my opinion is also pressuring the Pentagon to gear up for a war against Venezuela with the same goal as the war in Iraq--control of the oil. Meanwhile, eight other companies, from as many countries, and recently China, were happy to step into Exxon Mobil's vacuum and now have access to the fabulously oil rich Orinoco Belt in Venezuela on Venezuela's terms. This IS the "sovereignty of the People"! It says that, if you want to do business here, you play by OUR RULES as to the benefits to US--to we, the people.

DEMOCRATIC sovereignty is a different thing than the sovereignty of kings or the fake sovereignty of rule by multinational corporations (with or without a facade of democracy). One of the key tests is transparent elections--which Bolivians, Ecuadorans and Venezuelans have, and we do not. The people, in a democratic country, generally exercise their sovereignty by investing their sovereign power in public officials by means of elections. If those elections are honest, transparent and fair, the will of the majority rules, through those public servants, with agreed upon protections for minority groups (free speech, free assembly, right to vote and run for office, equal human rights, etc.) And when these principles work as they should, the best ideas and projects rise to the top and are implemented for the good of all. And when these principles of democracy are undermined, corrupted and destroyed by rich powermongers, we have what we have now in the United States--fake sovereignty, wherein the will of the majority is constantly over-ruled.

Now consider the example of Saudi Arabia--run by super-rich sultans with monarchical powers. Is this a sovereign country? International convention says that it is, and that these super-rich "kings" can run things any way they wish, including the egregious oppression of half their population--the women. I understand this international CONVENTION as the ad hoc means by which to try to maintain peace in an ad hoc world--that is, in a set of world circumstances that have never been ideal and never will be. Neither the UN nor any entity can remedy every gross injustice in every land. But where does Saudi Arabia get its sovereignty from? What is the basis of it? Is it "the sovereignty of the people"? Or its it tyrants usurping "the sovereignty of the people"? I think of sovereignty and democracy as almost interchangeable. There is no democracy without the sovereignty of the people. There is no sovereignty of the people without democracy. I am not speaking of "convention" of sovereignty by which international order is more or less maintained. I am speaking of REAL sovereignty. And the problem with a country like Saudi Arabia is that there is no power existing--or no power willing--to remove those tyrants and create real sovereignty. If the Saudi Arabian tyrants play ball with the U.S. corporate rulers and war profiteers, they get a pass. But, really, the most legitimate entity, as to creating real sovereignty, is the people themselves--and maybe they will one day throw off their tyrants, in Saudi Arabia, or maybe they actually do consent to being ruled in that way. It doesn't appear that they have any choice in the matter but it's hard to tell. Legitimate sovereignty cannot be imposed; it must come from within.

It's ludicrous--and extremely worrisome--how the U.S. State Department and its echoing press corps revile a truly democratic government such as Venezuela's and completely ignore outright tyranny in Saudi Arabia. It is a symptom of how far we have strayed from legitimate "sovereignty of the people" in the U.S.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
15. and I do too....!
this is how countries should be dealing with their natural resources. Take it out of the greedy bastards hands because it's imperative that a country not be dictated by business interest, rather the interests of the country AS A WHOLE! No one exclusivity to whatever is necessary to sustain the greed of those invested... enough is enough for them. Now it's time for the people everywhere to take a stand.
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