Poll: Broad support for Arizona immigration law (73%)

[AlphaCentauri]

Source: AP

A new poll shows that 59% of Americans approve of Arizona's new law cracking down on illegal immigrants while only 32% disapprove.

Specific provisions of the law enacted last month draw even more support: Fully 73% endorse its provisions requiring people to show police officers documents proving their legal status when asked. And 67% approve of police detaining anyone who can't prove their legal status.

The telephone poll by the Pew Research Center was conducted on May 6-9 and released Wednesday. It surveyed 994 adults and has a margin of error of plus or minus 4%age points.


Read more: http://www.kswt.com/Global/story.asp?S=12472716

[PM Martin]

1. How do minors prove their "legal" status?

[cory777]

2. “Every one’s quick to blame the alien.” – Aeschylus

[truthisfreedom]

3. Doesn't make it right OR legal. It's a racist law and it will be overturned.

That's just the way it is, AZ... get used to it.

[MIprogressive]

4. how can these people agree with it?

[depakid]

9. Fear

of the other;

of losing their jobs to brown people;

Of crime (even though immigrant communities have significantly lower crime rates);

of "evil doers" coming across their borders and hurting them.

[conservdem]

10. From what I learned about it so far I am not against it.

I think a lot of this comes from frustration arising from the lack of leadership on the issue from the Dems and Repubs.

I prefer that the we focus on vastly improved boarder security.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

22. Racial profiling is illegal in this country. n/t

[MellowDem]

29. Exactly...

which is why it's hilarious the previous poster basically "racially profiled" the poster he responded to! Can't get much better than that. But yes, racial profiling is illegal. But that doesn't stop some cops from doing it. This law, IMHO, won't lead to more cases of racial profiling. The cops that want to already do it. It will mean that cops can ask for your ID, which many on here compare to Nazi Germany, even though relatively liberal European nations have even stricter laws on immigration. All the hyperbole makes people's claims that this is all about racial profiling seem less relevant. It's obvious that illegal immigration is a big issue in a state like AZ, especially in a bad economy.

I don't deny that many don't fully understand the issue, but this law is all about political posturing. It won't be effective, either at stopping illegal immigration or deporting tons of Hispanics or even at making it easer to racial profile. It's just a bone thrown to the Republican base of AZ in an election year that won't address any of the problems, because in the end, the Republican leadership likes illegal immigration. They're all about it in fact. It's a libertarian experiment writ large. No labor laws to follow or standards. The illegal immigrant is the right's posterboy, even if the base is too stupid to know it. It's good for business, bad for labor, overall it is good for the economy, bad for human rights.

[AlphaCentauri]

33. I have seen this argument many times

to compare US immigration laws to other countries laws, why we don't do the same with health care or guns laws

[EFerrari]

49. There is no other country that has vampirzed an area as we have

Latin America except maybe China but even that's a stretch.

[Igel]

57. But you do hear the arguments, all the time.

Sometimes you even see the law changed, with a sigh of relief because the US is in line with its peer group.

Nobody uses the argument consistently. It's a specious argument, in any event, if used in any large sense to say we should be like everybody else.

In this case, this isn't the argument. There are two, and both are of the "now just be quiet" variety.

The first is straightforwardly derived from the specious argument. "You say we should be like everybody else on healthcare, gun control, etc., etc.--here's another example. I'll cede you this point, since it's obviously yours *or* you don't believe your own argument." You don't have to buy into the specious argument to use it against folk who do. There's no good answer that's simple. In fact, there's not really a good answer to this one because the very premise--"we have to be like others"--is falsified. It's really, "we have to be like others when I like how the others are, but not at all like them when I don't like what they do," which reduces to "we have to be like I want us to be." Yeah, I'm convinced.

The second is no less a "okay, now just be quiet" argument. It's "You say it's racist because it targets Latinos and other foreigners. But the laws are similar to those that Mexico and other countries have. Mexico's laws also targets Latinos. Does that mean that Mexicans are racist? Or perhaps since most illegal immigrants in Mexico are Latino, the law can't help but target Latinos--meaning that since most illegal immigrants in the US are Latinos, the US law also can't help but target Latinos. The same holds whenever there's a non-random racial bias in the illegal immigrant population. So either the law has to be admitted to at least be potentially not racist, or we have racist Mexicans supporting a racist government, racist Guatemalans supporting a racist government, racist Kenyans supporting a racist government. So which is it--is the law racist and they're all racist, too? Or is the law not racist?" Again, all the come backs are sucky because the argument being rebutted is really, "I think they're racist, so this law must be racist." Again, I'm convinced.

[EFerrari]

60. Racial profiling is illegal in the United States.

[laconicsax]

24. So you think it's fine and dandy for the police to approach someone and demand proof of residency?

The police in AZ can now demand proof of legal residency from anyone they see and arrest people who don't have it with them or who refuse.

Are you really fine with that?

[20score]

11. If you add the hypocrites and assholes with the people who aren't too bright, that's a good chunk

of the country.

[Frances]

5. Well, the GOP did it

They found the boogeyman for 2010 and 2012. I guess gays are off the hook, unless they are Hispanic.

[tcaudilllg]

45. Let's not forget how many Hispanics there are in this country

The real danger is that traditionalist Dems (big labor) will get into a tizzy with the reformer Dems (Hillary et al.). That would split the party and guarantee Republican victory. Anyway the Dems need to reach out to Hispanics and tell them, yes we feel your pain. We need to let them understand that we know that they are afraid and... we need to do something about Brewer.

[mikelgb]

6. I for one welcome our new Nazi overlords...

:hide:

[xchrom]

7. Oy - stupid Americans - you can always count on them. Nt

[conservdem]

8. 87% in a 2006 DU poll supported better border control as an important first step

I noted this in a recent post.

I think we should focus on border control, and it would be better if the AZ law became the catalyst to address the border. I do wonder how a poll like this would turn out now.

Here is how the 2006 poll was written:

"Poll question: Poll: Do you support getting better control of the Southern U.S. border?

Whether you are for immediate amnesty, a path to citizenship, or another response to the the current situation, do you believe an important first step is to gain better control of our borders...and no, I am not talking right-wing minutemen here.

Poll result (95 votes)

Yes, better control of the border is an important first step to any solution (83 votes, 87%) Vote

No, we do not need better control of our borders (12 votes, 13%) Vote"


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Blasphemer]

12. That is very disturbing. nt

[EFerrari]

13. A measure, maybe, of how much undocumented workers

have been dehumanized in the media.

[Patchuli]

14. And 59% are RACIST MORONS. nt

[MellowDem]

21. Considering what percentage Obama got...

I highly doubt it's that simple.

[Patchuli]

30. It's simple to me.

Racists are stupid, hateful and not worth the air they breathe.

[MellowDem]

31. So 59% of the nation are racist morons...

but 52% voted for Obama. Doesn't compute. The issue is more complex than just racist bigots.

[Jennicut]

37. African Americans are not the target of fear and scorn anymore.

Hispanics are. Really, it is that "der takin our jobs" philosophy. Accept no one wants to do the jobs they do. This law does nothing to address the real problems. Employers have a need, Mexico has problems...hence, we get illegals. Some in govt. look the other way, some want to crackdown. Once again, no issues are addressed. It will have to be federal immigration reform and no one wants to touch it right now.

[MellowDem]

51. Why does no one want to do the jobs they do?

It's because of the wage suppression and poor labor standards. When I was a teen in high school, I had a hard time getting a crappy part-time job in my area because I had a lot of illegal immigrants to compete with. The better paying jobs, really the manual labor ones, were impossible for me to get, because I was a 17 year old competing with 30 and 40 year olds who had this as a full-time job essentially, whereas I would only be there for the summer. These weren't union jobs, just things that teens used to be able to do part-time in the summer.

So the jobs I ended up with were fast food and dishwasher, and in both cases I was the only white person, and the youngest person, working there who wasn't management. Most of the Hispanics I worked with were in the 30s or 40s. You won't get 30 and 40 year old US citizens flocking to these jobs, because for one it can't support them, and for another, they expect more. And the blue-collar jobs that older Americans used to do are hard to come by, unless you want to accept low wages and poor working standards, if you're even hired at all. Better for the employers to hire illegal immigrants.

My parents helped me buy a used car to get around in as a teen, which was a privilege, but also pretty usual for many teens and essential if I was going to work. I remember some of my illegal immigrant co-workers going on and on about how I and all those American teens were so spoiled, which obviously in comparison to them, we were. They couldn't believe that our parents would help us buy things like that. I tried to explain to them that if they had more disposable income, they might think otherwise, but generally there was just a complete lack of empathy or even an attempt to understand from them. Here were people who were here illegally, lecturing me about our culture, even as they benefitted from it at the expense of other (mostly poor) US citizens in terms of labor. I was just thinking, just wait until your Americanized kids are growing up, you'll be in for some real culture shocks.

Not all were that rude, and in general they were good people I enjoyed working with. But there is a definite disconnect among many, and they don't really understand what they're impact is in the communities they live in. Most just think they're doing the jobs that no lazy Americans want to do, that they're some noble, special "hard working" people. I just snort in response.

[Bill McBlueState]

44. you can vote for a black person and still be a racist.

Do you really need to be told that?

[MellowDem]

52. The implication is that....

all 59% are racist morons, when it's obvious that there will be a variety of reason people support this law, not just bigotry. I was just pointing out the ridiculousness of the implication by saying that 12% of those racist morons must have voted for Barack Obama. I don't think that it's impossible. Obviously there are black racists, Hispanic racists, Asian racists, or even white racists who voted for Obama. I'm just saying it's rather improbable and too simplisitic of an explanation.

[Skip Intro]

15. I'm not surprised by this poll. It's a simple matter for most, I think.

Are people in this country illegally in violation of the law? Yes, indeed they are.

Should there be a penalty for violating the law? Of course.

[EFerrari]

23. Which sidesteps the fact that this bill does nadita about illegal immigration

and is all about attacking brown people. And I'm paraphrasing the Sheriff of Pima County.

[and-justice-for-all]

17. Papers please.....

that 73% are racist bigots.

[RedCloud]

18. Off with their heads. They are of no use.

[2Design]

19. I call Bullsh*t - not sure who they polled but it is wrong n/t

[killbotfactory]

25. People just love laws and punishment when they aren't the target

That's why laws shouldn't be up to the whim of the majority.

[defendandprotect]

28. So true . . . nice post!!

[Abq_Sarah]

38. People who generally obey laws

Don't like to see others rewarded for violating laws.

[AlphaCentauri]

43. Most people don't know the laws they have to obey eom

[LanternWaste]

47. I imagine there must be quite bit of pent up resentment...

I imagine there must be quite bit of pent up resentment in this country for drivers going 5mph over the speed limit.

[EFerrari]

50. How is being driven out of your home and forced to live in a

hostile country and work for slave wages a reward?

People need to open their eyes.

[NYC Liberal]

62. Except it's NOT just people breaking the law who are affected.

You don't get it do you? Nobody has a problem with holding lawbreakers accountable. This law makes ALL "brown people" targets for harassment by LE. Innocent people who ARE obeying the law are going to be caught up in this.

[laconicsax]

26. It's worse if you read the questions asked.

http://people-press.org/report/613/arizona-immigration-law
The questions were whether respondents approve of the following things:
1) Requiring people to produce documents verifying their legal status if police ask for them: 73%
2) Allowing police to detain anyone who cannot verify their legal status: 67%
3) Allowing police to question people they think may be in the country illegally: 62%

[defendandprotect]

27. Right wing propaganda still works . . . FEAR of Mexicans . . . wow!!

[bluestateguy]

32. "So?"

---Dick Cheney

[kelly1mm]

34. The repubs will ride this to victory in 2010 - I think we will lose the

House over this but the Senate will stay Democratic with smaller majority - 54 or so Democrats. Wedge issues work for them and in this economy, any type of normalization will not play well. Hell, when the economy was better and a repub prez proposed comprehensive immigration reform, the right went ape shit crazy. I understand that due to the AZ law this has become a national issue but, given the polls out so far and the economy, this is a looser for Democrats in November.

[pampango]

41. The repubs are indeed good at finding emotional issues (particularly if fear of nonwhites -

like Islamic terrorists - can be worked into their message) which they try to ride to electoral success. They're terrible at governing but pretty good at identifying and politicizing wedge issues to run on.

Rather than let the republicans run in 2010 on support for Arizona's law and avoiding the bigger picture, perhaps Democrats should take advantage of the equal popularity of comprehensive immigration reform as evidenced in this poll - http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/05/a_new_poll_says_ohioans_back_i.html .

"...nearly 70 percent of likely Ohio voters would support a plan that brings illegal immigrants out of the shadows and makes them tax-paying citizens. Ohioans rated a "path to citizenship" as a higher priority than border security and other get-tough measures that are widely perceived as politically safe."

This would pressure republicans to play on our turf rather than us playing on theirs.

[Jennicut]

35. Remember, interracial marriage was not accepted until 1991 by a majority.

This is not a progressive country by any means despite some people wanting it to be so. Hispanics have taken on the role of all the previous immigrants. Blame and scorn for our problems. The Irish, Italians, etc. all went through it. Nativism is a bitch.

[David__77]

40. This is a backward, right-wing imperialist country.

It doesn't mean that we cannot get progressive electoral majorities, but it's difficult work and requires political discipline and organization that is sorely lacking. The Democratic Party needs to be a cadre party of professional, full-time activists, not an incoherent mass.

[Frances]

48. It's not just immigrants

The Repubs always exploit the fear that the majority of the people in the U.S. have.

In my lifetime, it's been Communists (MLK Jr. was a communist according to them); pointy-headed liberals (people sympathetic to blacks wanting more civil rights); draft dodgers (the "silent majority" supported the Vietnam War); black criminals (the Willie Horton ad got the first Bush elected); Dems attacking family values (Bill Clinton's sex BAD; Vitter's diaper sex NOT APPLICABLE); gays (Repubs put anti-gay marriage on ballots during major election years).

I don't know why so many fall for these scare tactics, but they do. Maybe it's because they know that bullies turn on those who don't join in with the bullying.

I'm not saying that there are not real dangers in the world because there are; it's just that I don't like for bullies to manipulate me.

[Jennicut]

55. Yes, that is true. Fear leads to that feeling of loss of control and

then certain people react by clinging to certain ideas to hold onto a feeling of control. Very manipulative but also very effective.

[truthisfreedom]

36. During the average undocumented worker's career in the US, they pay in tens of thousands more in tax

than they receive in benefit from the government. People have it all ass-backwards. They do jobs nobody wants to do. They often work for less than minimum wage. WE NEED THEM. Cripes, some people should just grow up.

[Igel]

58. Nobody knows.

I've read studies, and they all rely on documenting lack of legal residence in the US.

Read that again: They do not rely on documenting legal residence in the US.

The difference is huge because in many cases it's hard to document lack of legal residence. Hospital ERs don't ask for proof of residency--they don't ask, or take whatever documentation's provided. How many illegal immigrants have fake IDs? How many are never asked? Same in other areas of public service--to ask for proof is racist and fascist, but to rely on non-proof is foolish but common.

Moreover, it's easily possible to just say "withhold no taxes." FICA and Medicare are still withheld--7% or so. But the rest don't have to be. They might come for you, they might not. If it's a small amount of money at issue and the ID's faked, it might not be a large problem. Many of the illegal immigrants I've known have changed IDs and jobs fairly often, often working for cash, so the IRS is low-risk for them. How to you measure the amount of taxes paid when a person is doing that? Do we suck up to the fallacy that the tax rate x income is what they actually paid? I think not. I mean, my next door neighbor does landscaping. Mostly on a cash basis. I'm sure he reports some of it. I doubt he reports all of it.

And, finally, a number of the studies define "benefits" as "specially paid benefits". Medical care? Benefit. Schools? Possibly not a benefit. Public roads? Almost certainly not a benefit. Yet people quoting those studies, when looking at people they disagree with, will count police and fire protection as a benefit, roads and curbs and tree trimming and Coast Guard patrols as a benefit to be weighed against their class enemies' tax payments. In other words, partly to make the study manageable, partly to prove what was wanted, the benefits listed and quantified aren't exhaustive.

[EFerrari]

59. Your common sense should tell you that poor people pay more for everything

because they have access to so little.

[classysassy]

39. There is a French proverb

that says" Sometime a majority simply mean that all the fools are on the same side" I believe this is one of those times.

[Toucano]

53. +1

Another example of why direct democracy is not a good idea.

[tcaudilllg]

42. Bad polling

We know full well that there is more to the law than "requiring people to demonstrate their legal status." The media is spinning the true nature of this law. What are we going to do about it?

[dpbrown]

46. Arbeit macht frei

Hey look, it's wrapped in a flag!

[Toucano]

54. This indicates how poorly informed they are. n-t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

56. ...thereby demolishing the last argument against boycotts.

As if such argument weren't lame enough already.

[krabigirl]

61. A nation of dumb sheep. A similar majority were for the war in Iraq and believed the WMD lies.

[MIprogressive1]

63. These are probably the same "Majority" of Americans that the repukes said were against Health Care.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

64. the 73% were immigrants or decendents from immigrants?

I wish we could send all those who settled in the USA back from whence they came? That's probably 90%.