Bomb Designer, Mars Expert Sent by Obama to Fix Oil Spill

[Pirate Smile]

Source: Bloomberg

U.S. Energy Secretary Steven Chu signaled his lack of confidence in the industry experts trying to control BP Plc’s leaking oil well by hand-picking a team of scientists with reputations for creative problem solving.
Dispatched to Houston by President Barack Obama to deal with the crisis, Chu said Wednesday that five “extraordinarily intelligent” scientists from around the country will help BP and industry experts think of back-up plans to cut off oil from the well, leaking 5,000 feet (1,500 meters) below sea-level.

Members of the Chu team are credited with accomplishments including designing the first hydrogen bomb, inventing techniques for mining on Mars and finding a way to precisely position biomedical needles.
“I don’t think there is a lot of confidence in BP in Washington right now,” David Pursell, a managing director at Tudor Pickering Holt & Co. LLC in Houston, said by phone. Chu’s decision to bring in additional scientists may reflect that concern, he said.

BP’s effort to use robots on the seafloor to close off the well failed, and a 40-foot steel structure meant to cap the leak was scuttled when the containment box became clogged with an icy slush of seawater and gas. BP now is deliberating between using a smaller containment chamber to control the well or inserting a tube directly into the leaking pipe to channel the oil.
Chu said he’s tasked his team to develop “plan B, C, D, E and F” in addition to finding a way to stop the oil leak.
“Things are looking up, and things are getting much more optimistic,” the Nobel-prize winning physicist said after meeting with the scientists and BP in Houston Wednesday.

"BP CEO Meeting

The group convened at BP’s command center in Houston yesterday, where they met with BP leadership, including Chief Executive Officer Tony Hayward, the Energy Department said. BP is using more than 500 specialists from almost 100 organizations and welcomes additional help, Jon Pack, a BP spokesman, said by phone.
Their exact activities are cloaked in secrecy. “We saw some confidential and proprietary information,” said one scientist on the team, Jonathan I. Katz, a physics professor at Washington University in St. Louis.
Katz’s early work focused on astrophysics, but now he consults on a wide variety of physics puzzles, he said. He is a member of the JASON group, a think tank dedicated to researching complex problems for the U.S. Government, including the Defense Department.

Read more: http://preview.bloomberg.com/news/2010-05-14/obama-sends-bomb-inventor-mars-expert-to-fix-bp-oil-spill-in-mexican-gulf.html?xid=huffbloomberg

---

BP has described conditions around its leaking offshore well as resembling those in outer space.

[rzemanfl]

1. They'll nuke it if they have to. I don't understand why that

wouldn't work.

[HillbillyBob]

6. Because Nuking it could break the surrounding rock

and release vastly larger amounts.

[rzemanfl]

12. The leak is at the top of an 18,000 foot hole, Wouldn't the

surrounding rock that wasn't turned into glass by the heat just close the damn hole?

[liberation]

42. Well... there is this thing called "fallout" when you use nuclear fission devices...

Making a whole gulf radioactive in order to stop an oil leak, somehow seems to fit the definition of jumping off the frying pan to fall into the fire.

So it is not as trivial since it needs to be a truly underground detonation, and then it is very iffy if the radiation can be truly contained.

[rzemanfl]

56. That's why Obama sent the eggheads, to figure stuff out. There

is some video here indicating the Russians did it in the early 1960's (not underwater) to put out a burning gas well.

[Ex Lurker]

67. the Russians drilled a 4000 foot hole and put the nuke in the bottom of it

if you're going to do that, you might as well just go ahead with the relief well.

[rzemanfl]

93. The last time a relief well was tried it took five attempts to hit the

blown out well. So far BP has done nothing but f**k this up.

[Ex Lurker]

96. I agree with that n/t

[progressoid]

85. Fallout? Cool!!11!

Then we'll get really big mutant shrimp right?


ETA: I can't believe people on this board actually think detonating a nuke is a good idea.

[BrightKnight]

95. The political fallout from dropping a nuke

that close to the shore would be extreme.

[Fool Count]

101. A nuclear device will release at most 100 kg of radioactive material.

Hardly enough to make the whole Gulf radioactive, since that would be diluted into billions tons of water.
In comparison to a million kg of oil gushing out each day that is truly nothing.

[protocol rv]

102. I would not want to eat those US Gulf Shrimp after a nuclear detonation

They would be known as "raidoactive shrimp" :-)

[havocmom]

13. Now see, that was my concern when the method gets mentioned

I have trouble seeing how a nuke would be a sure fire fix. Seems just as likely it could just be a bigger wreck, but I know nada on the subject.

Of course, the OIL EXPERTS who are supposed to understand it have a bad track record so we can't be sure the experts are going to be any help at all.

[northernlights]

77. the OIL EXPERTS have a different boss,

and hence, different PRIORITIES, than the Chu physicists. Everything they've tried has been geared toward capturing the gushing oil to sell. Nothing has been geared toward just plugging the damn hole up. Just like BP has been using a less effective, more toxic dispersion chemical because they own a part interest in the chemical manufacturer so can make money there too.

And the OIL EXPERTS have no more expertise in plugging holes 5,0000 feet down because it could "never happen" and because contingency plans were never thought about or prepared in advance. You know, the way they were supposed to be.

Oh, but the OIL EXPERTS do have what, about 3 weeks more experience in failed trial and error?

Having scientists there -- who will NOT be so easily fooled by any wild claims that BP may try to make -- will not only help problem solve, but ensure that priorities remain where they need to be.

[havocmom]

86. Yep. Got into it with a DU poster who was all ga-ga for the 'experts'

Couldn't make a dent in the industry defensive posture no matter what I said.

Methinks Big Oil is not only so greedy as to be willing to poison the whole planet, they don't want anybody from the outside looking in on what they do, even if it could solve a lot of their problems. To me, that means they bloody well know they are guilty of many many crimes.

[dipsydoodle]

73. vastly larger amounts

of methane hydrates too.

[Homer03]

72. Its a Hole

If you had a hemorrhoid problem would you expect a firecracker in the ass to fix it?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

83. LOL

How dare you bring common sense into this...

[juajen]

88. Welcome to DU. My, what a fiery beginning! NT

[flamingdem]

90. oy! nt

[calimary]

92. Welcome to DU! Sometimes just looking at the basics can cut through a lot of bullshit.

But I do like the approach of going around the industry people and bringing OTHER heads and OTHER mindsets in, whose priority isn't just dollar-chasing. Asking the same people who created the problem to bring the same mindsets in on trying to find a solution doesn't make much sense. Especially since they've now HAD their chance (several of them) and everything they've tried has failed, AND considering how they turned their noses up at having tried-and-true solutions ready - because they assumed, from the beginning, that nothing would happen, anyway. GET THEM OUT!!!!!! Bring in more objective minds that aren't tasked with profit-seeking.

[rug]

2. Before this is over they'll be exhuming Oppenheimer's head.

[htuttle]

8. "Hole in the Ocean", coming up next on the SyFy Channel

[MannyGoldstein]

47. Obama Would Be Too Scared Of Being Called A Commie nt

[Mojorabbit]

63. That made me LOL and I needed it badly today! nt

[drm604]

3. Finally.

We need to put the world's best and brightest on this rather than depend on the people who originally fumbled it.

[Cha]

4. Best wishes and Lots of Luck to go

along with all that intelligence..thanks Pirate Smile.

[babylonsister]

5. Wow. Now someone tell me Obama isn't doing everything possible

to try to resolve BP's screw-up. I dare you.

And why didn't BP think of this?

[HillbillyBob]

16. I have to agree in this case, get the best and the brightest out there

because the bought and paid for folks screwed it fubar.

Since the 80s the MBAs have been in charge and anything that makes or saves a buck and goes...

[LakeSamish706]

17. BP didn't think of this because all that they see is $$$$$ signs. They still haven't grasped

the major fuck up that they have caused here yet. This company needs to have all of it's assets and dollars on hand frozen, now.

[babylonsister]

21. I disagree. They know full well what havoc they've caused.

That's why they are already trying to mitigate damages.

Transocean to Petition to Limit Liability in Gulf Rig Blast
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8327231

[LakeSamish706]

24. Yeah, but BP knows that they are ultimately responsible for this disaster

and criminal charges may very well be brought against all 3 of these companies (I hope). Unfortunately like Mike Papantonio says, how do you actually prosecute these corporations? Who do you actually bring to trial?

[babylonsister]

25. Pictures? Dead fish? Unpaid bills? Bills of foreclosure?

For starters. And there will be lots of all of those things.

[LakeSamish706]

27. I agree, and we are probably looking at another Exxon Veldez time frame here and a SCOTUS

ruling on who will pay the piper. No doubt the American people will get screwed once again.

[babylonsister]

29. I think we are looking at another Exxon Valdez, if not worse.

I have a teensy bit more faith that we are on to the culprits and they will be held more accountable.
Yes, I'm an optimist, but this OP is a good indicator that this tragedy won't be swept under the rug or ignored.

[PADemD]

74. Who do you bring to trial?

All members of BP's safety, ethics and environment assurance committee, plus its CEO.

[pokercat999]

79. Everyone including their stockholders.....better check your 401k

[rzemanfl]

34. Mitigation implies they are doing something to lessen the impact

of the spill, they are just trying to mitigate losses to shareholders, the rest of us just get screwed.

[wordpix]

94. yes but they're still issuing comments like "It's not glop, it's like iced tea."

These bozos think we'll buy it but I'm not happy until they're jailed for life.

[ellie]

84. I agree with this.

BP needs to be liquidated and their assets need to be used to clean up the mess.

[John N Morgan]

30. BP wants to "save the well" not save the world ... there's a difference.

[babylonsister]

32. Link? Has BP discounted any solution because of what they want

to save? I think not. They want this to go away as soon as possible as cheaply as possible, and it's not happening because they don't have a clue how to stop it.

[liberation]

45. BP sort of lost any benefit of the doubt by the 4th time they got caught in an utter lie

... and that was a while ago.

[babylonsister]

54. The question wasn't answered. Your elusive blah didn't either. nt

[arikara]

66. Thats certainly how it appears, link or no

Exxon got away without paying out for Exxon Valdez, you can bet British Petroleum has taken that into consideration of their bottom line. The CEO is busy doing a very clumsy sort of damage control... http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Gulf-Of-Mexico-Oil-Spill-BP-Boss-Tony-Hayward-Says-The-Leak-Is-Tiny-Compared-To-Entire-Ocean/Article/201005215631647?lpos=World_News_Top_Stories_Header_2&lid=ARTICLE_15631647_Gulf_Of_Mexico_Oil_Spill%3A_BP_Boss_Tony_Hayward_Says_The_Leak_Is_Tiny_Compared_To_Entire_Ocean

"BP's chief executive Tony Hayward said he felt under no pressure to stand down but admitted his future depends on how the company deals with the crisis. In an interview with The Guardian newspaper he said: "The Gulf of Mexico is a very big ocean. The amount of volume of oil and dispersant we are putting into it is tiny in relation to the total water volume."

This psychopathic pinhead is not concerned with any damage done other than to his bonus. And I sure do wish everyone would stop calling the fucking thing a "leak", that implies a little drip drip drip like a leaky faucet. This bloody thing is an underground volcano, a torrent... a gusher.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2010/may/13/video-deepwater-horizon-oil-spill

[Ex Lurker]

69. that well is already unsalvageable

BP no doubt wants the oil, but they'll have to go back and drill a new well anyway. The ongoing blowout does them no good, they'd rather the oil stayed underground so they can come back for it later. BP has LOTS to answer for, but deliberately letting the blowout continue isn't one of them.

[waronbanks]

75. Well it sure seems like

everything they propose is about CAPTURING the oil and NOT STOPPING the leak.

[Ex Lurker]

87. because they haven't figured out how to stop the leak

except for drilling a relief well, which takes time. And that raises a whole different set of questions. I'm not trying to sound like an apologist for BP. I'd like to see them fined/sued out of existence. But they're not stalling on getting this thing capped. They just don't know what the fuck else to do at this point.

[protocol rv]

103. Well cost: $100 million

Clean up cost: $400-500 million thus far.

I don't think the cost of the well, or "saving the well" factors into BP's calculus. They are trying to shut it off. However, I would agree, they either have a much more delicate situation than they have let us know, or they have been a little bit dumb. I think it may be a mixture of both.

[tavalon]

68. It's not black and white

What he's doing here is good. withholding the video of the leak for 3 weeks kind of seems like a bit of complicity. Now, we can put these on the magic scale and see exactly where Obama stands now, but really...........

[havocmom]

7. One of the few times a member of Obama's cabinet inspires a bit of confidence

Thank goodness SOMEBODY is thinking outside the oil companies.

[polichick]

11. True - maybe now the prez will see how important it is to put thinkers in charge...

...instead of industry hacks.

[havocmom]

15. Absolutely

Maybe I will send him one of those desk things, like Clinton had re "it's the economy, stupid"

How about The Hacks stop here... and now!

[babylonsister]

33. Who was an industry hack? And ftr, this is BP's fuck-up, lest you forgot. nt

[polichick]

39. BP couldn't have fucked up - or the others either - if MMS had done it's job...

The buck stops with Salazar, who has been cozy with big oil for years, and with the president of course.

It's not just coincidence that the prez chose cabinet members cozy with Goldman Sachs, Monsanto and big oil - and the price of such recklessness can be very high for all of us.

[babylonsister]

41. And that started way before this admin, if you didn't know that.

I agree that this admin should have revamped the MMS because they were/are disgraceful, but they did have a full plate, in their defense. And I think you blame this admin way too much and BP way too little.

From 2008:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/10/AR2008091001829.html

Report Says Oil Agency Ran Amok
Interior Dept. Inquiry Finds Sex, Corruption

[polichick]

44. BP should be put out of business - but everyone knew that Cheney...

...turned the MMS over to big oil - that agency should have been turned upside down on day one.

I've had it with Obama's industry hack cabinet members - the prez himself is too cozy with industry and his choices show it.

[babylonsister]

50. Day one? Yes, we should have just gone after MMS and

ignored the economy imploding. Great idea.

I'll just agree to disagree right here.

[polichick]

51. Don't you ever get tired of making excuses? nt

[babylonsister]

52. Don't you ever get tired of blaming, and ignoring a lot of positive

things? Because you do.

I don't want to argue with you. I'm sick of all the arguing, and am trying to tone it down, especially with people I respect.

[polichick]

55. I frequently mention the positive things about this administration...

...but that doesn't make me blind to the enormous problems that come with loading a cabinet with people who put industry ahead of this country, the people and the environment. This president asked us to be hard on him the day I met him and I think we should do what we can to remind him to live up to his potential - so the country can live up to its potential.

[babylonsister]

58. Yet all you do is demand and complain. How productive is that?

Like I said, I'm not getting into it with you.

I happen to have more faith in this President than you do. I think he's trying to rectify the wrongs as fast as he can, but that's evidently not fast enough for a lot of people.

You do what you do, keep calling him out. I'll keep defending him, because I honestly think in his heart he's trying to do the right thing with all the obstacles he faces, and the personalities he has to deal with, and the wrath from the right and the left.

You fight, I defend. It's all good.

[polichick]

59. For some reason, you've made it your job to defend it at all costs...

I agree when I agree and disagree when I disagree. Too bad you never notice when I agree - which is often.


(btw, disagreeing with someone isn't "getting into it" for me - it's just disagreeing. No biggie.)

[babylonsister]

60. But I don't always, witness here. That's your perception...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=299470&mesg_id=299493

But you are far more angry than I am at this admin. I'm thankful we have Obama after the dimson, very thankful.

[polichick]

61. Show me one where you boldly disagree with Obama himself...

And yes, I am angry that this administration allowed such a horrendous thing to happen in the Gulf - and I am also thankful that Bush is gone.

I can do both at once.

[babylonsister]

62. I call bullshit. "this admin 'allowed' such a horrendous thing to

happen in the Gulf"?

You are letting your hatred eat you up. This 'admin' didn't 'allow' anything. THIS IS BP's BABY AND THIS ADMIN IS TRYING TO FIX IT.

Got that?

And I'm done. You sound delusional, and I consider you a friend. I'm done.

[polichick]

64. LOL - you sound delusional to me. Who was in charge of policing BP? nt

[applegrove]

9. Too bad Feynman isn't alive today.

[paparush]

99. I was thinking the same thing on Friday.

[gimama]

10. why is bp still the boss of this????

as IF they have ANY credibility,
or a clue,
a solution,
a plan..
or the MOTIVATION to stop the disaster.

[babylonsister]

23. They have motivation: it's costing them every second. But a clue?

Solution? Plan? Apparently not.

[gimama]

48. how long till gas prices go up?

Wasn't that long ago, a refinery shut-down, a hurricane, a WAR, all were justifications for fuel prices to escalate. WHY,with this situation,no price increase..(yet)?
From here,I don't see bp's motivation to stop the disaster.
'course, I'm on the Gulf & mighty pist.

[protocol rv]

104. why should the price go up?

Thus far the oil spilled is about 25 % of the Exxon Valdez volume. It looks ugly in the pictures, but it's not that bad. Since that field wasn't producing (it's a new well), its production doesn't factor into national supply. As a result of the oil slick, some offset platforms have been closed. Also, the government ordered all new drilling suspended for now. Therefore if the oil prices go up they will do so in about a year, when the oil from wells drilled in the summer of 2010 would be showing in the market in quantity.

But there's an offseting factor, the Saudis and Kuwaitis will increase their production to offset US decline, therefore the impact will be negligible. Economic growth in China and the Euro crisis will have a much larger impact. :-)

[harun]

80. Because they are the ones with the $$$.

[LakeSamish706]

14. My only hope beyond this is BP and the rest of these scum bag companies get stuck

paying the bills for all of this.

Now lets hope that Chu's people can come up with a way to stop the gush.

[Mind_your_head]

18. Another PR Stunt......

This deep underwater wildcat well has EVERYONE flummoxed.

Too bad that millions/billions of dollars have been WASTED studying NATIONAL SECURITY, when the UNEXPECTED problem had nothing to do with 'outsiders' or 'foreign people'

[polichick]

20. Yeah, and the "unexpected" problem had been predicted by environmental groups...

...for years - nice to know they have their priorities straight: military industrial complex first; national security way later.

[Mind_your_head]

28. Yep. National security had NOTHING to do with the "smiling faces" of the corporations

who have overtaken (and ruined) EVERYTHING good and decent and natural.

[jimshoes]

19. Finally. I would like to have seen this two weeks ago, but

since it's obvious that BP doesn't have the type of engineering brain trust, or "Tiger Team" to resolve this problem, and while there are no guarantees, I have infinitely more faith in these hand picked scientists than BP's Larry Curly & Moe Division. Still I keep my fingers crossed and wish them success for all our sakes.

[polichick]

22. I wish them success too - hoping and praying and hoping and praying and...

Well, it's an endless freaked out loop.

If rocket scientist types can't fix it, who can?

[RC]

26. If they think can stick a tube in the leaky pipe and fill a tanker

Why can't they insert a "balloon" into the pipe and inflate it? If the pipe is leaky, cut cut the pipe off before any leaks, then insert the "balloon". If nothing else, it will buy time for a more permanent fix.

[babylonsister]

31. What would the balloon be made of so as not to be punctured? nt

[rzemanfl]

36. I dunno, maybe several hundred Magnum size Trojans one

inside the next?

[babylonsister]

46. I dunno either, but you know the raggedness of the edge of

a pipe? Then add weight? I don't know what kind of balloon/condom would/could work, that could also be flexible.

[rzemanfl]

35. If they cut the pipe it gets worse. n/t

[Pirate Smile]

38. I think the location, pressure, temperature, etc. are what makes this so damn difficult.

It really does seem like performing an operation in outer space. Actually, we probably know more about how to do things in outer space then we do a mile below the sea.

So f$%king frustrating.

[Shipwack]

37. Some interesting team members there...

Russian Astronaut Lev Andropov, who during a network interview had this to say,"Components. American components, Russian Components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN! This is how we fix problem in the Russian space station!"
*hits panel with tool*

[FailureToCommunicate]

40. One of the best scenes in that movie!

[proteus_lives]

71. One of the only good scenes.

[paparush]

100. Reminds me of this line from Armageddon-

Rockhound: You know we're sitting on four million pounds of fuel, one nuclear weapon and a thing that has 270,000 moving parts built by the lowest bidder. Makes you feel good, doesn't it?

[FailureToCommunicate]

43. Hope Bruce Willis is one of the five...

[complain jane]

49. +1

Nice. :hi:

[Tx4obama]

53. Here's a link to a TPM article that includes BIOS for each of the five team members

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/05/mission_impossible_obama_taps_crack_team_of_scient.php

[rzemanfl]

57. Thanks for that. eom

[NYC_SKP]

65. That's an awesome team. The Best of the Best!!!

:thumbsup:

The Old Hand: Richard Garvin

In 1951, 23-year old Richard Garwin was working at the Los Alomos nuclear laboratory,
when he was asked by Edward Teller to devise an experiment that would demonstrate the principle of "radiation implosion." Garwin's detailed sketch served as the basis for "Mike," an 80-ton device, that was detonated the following year as the world's first hydrogen bomb. "I wasn't the inventor," Garwin has said. "I was sort of the architect." In 1952, Garwin went to work for IBM -- where he remains a fellow emeritus -- on the understanding that he could spend a third of his time working with the federal government on national security issues. He's a recipient of the national medal of science, and a member of the JASON, an elite think tank that studies complex scientific problems on behalf of the U.S. government. In 1991, Garwin convened a symposium of experts to discus ways to stem oil flows from Kuwait wells, set on fire by Iraq during the Gulf War. For Garwin, now 82, could this be his last hurrah?




The Establishment Man: Tom Hunter

Tom Hunter yesterday announced his resignation as the president of Sandia National Laboratories, an outpost of the U.S. nuclear weapons complex that conducts high-level research for the National Nuclear Security Administration. He had been at Sandia since 1967, and served as president since 2005 -- a job that reportedly paid him $1.7 million a year. He has a Ph.D. in Nuclear Engineering from the University of Wisconsin. Hunter said yesterday he had no particular plans for what he'd be doing in retirement. That may have changed.




The Maverick Genius: Alexander Slocum

Alexander Slocum, a professor of mechanical engineering at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, teaches a world famous design and manufacturing class that culminates in a remote-controlled robot competition. He holds more than 60 patents for inventions relating to biotechnology, robotics and computer science, but his research interests also include "going faster on my snowboard, staying down longer SCUBA diving!," according to his website. A colleague told Bloomberg: "He has a lot of creative ideas. One in 10 are really brilliant ideas, but nine are dumb. You can't miss that one that is brilliant." Here's hoping genius strikes in the Gulf.


The No-Nonsense Engineer: George Cooper

George Cooper might have the most relevant experience for the mission at hand. A professor of engineering at UC Berkely, he spent much of his career in industrial research with Britain's National Physical Laboratory and now serves as Senior Petroleum Engineer at DOE's Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory. But he can branch out too: According to Bloomberg, he once worked with the National Aeronautics and Space Administration to adapt mining techniques for use on Mars.

(And the other guy, in the link you provided)

:patriot:

[bananas]

89. Yup - I've posted a number of articles by Garwin

regarding nuclear energy issues (waste, proliferation, etc).

[Divine Discontent]

70. this announcement probably should have came 2 wks ago, yeah?

I think so. BP is an energy company, not an emergency mgmt specialist in underwater catastrophes. And those other knuckleheads sure didn't inspire on Capitol Hill! I'm glad to see the president take this step.

[old mark]

76. BP's brain resembles outer space......nt

[DireStrike]

78. TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE IDEA. ONLY OIL TECHNICIANS ARE QUALIFIED!

According to some others here.

[eilen]

81. Oh God... Why did the theme from the A-Team just start playing in my head? nt

[MtnLovinLiberal]

82. LOL.

nt

[underpants]

98. I thought of Bruce Willis

[Uncle Joe]

91. Last night I was thinking of a Chinese Finger Puzzle approach.

Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Pirate Smile.

[CabalPowered]

97. The Jason Group

Interesting read for those more interested in the think tank..

http://www.amazon.com/Jasons-Secret-History-Sciences-Postwar/dp/0670034894

[protocol rv]

105. They won't come up with anything new

These guys don't know hardware that works at 5000 feet below sea level. This isn't really a task for scientists, it's for engineers.