Supporters: Arizona immigration law protects citizens' safety

[pampango]

Source: Arizona Republic

Supporters of Arizona's new immigration law put the rest of the country and Mexico on notice Saturday: We're standing steady; you can't shake us from our beliefs.

"Together we will secure our border and get our nation back," Pam Stephenson, director of the Arizona Tea Party, told a crowd of more than 5,000 people gathered at Tempe Diablo Stadium. The "Stand with Arizona" event, organized by "tea party" groups, featured speeches and music and came after a peaceful march in Phoenix of those who oppose the law.

Larry Wachs, an Atlanta radio station host, gave the Tempe group a rallying cry: "Can you hear us, now Mexico? Can you hear us, now? Because this land is not your land. This land is our land," he said. "I pay for it. We work for it. We have our credentials; where are yours?"

"The new law is now a state law," Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio told the crowd. "If we catch anyone here illegally, we will arrest everybody and book them into jail. I'm not going to turn them over to ICE."

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2010/05/30/20100530airzona-immigration-law-supporters.html

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Not to hard to tell which side that the tea parties are on - big government that will arrest you, book you, and not turn you over to ICE. Not sure if the "not going to turn them over to ICE" is part of the Arizona law or Joe is making this stuff up as he goes along. (And I'm not sure which is scarier: a law that empowers Joe to do this or Joe doing it without regards to what the law says.)

Stephenson got "secure our border" in her soundbite, so McCain, Kyl and the rest of the republican strategists will be happy with her. But she didn't get "no amnesty for illegals" in there, so she's going to lose a point or two in their scorebook for that. repubs and tea baggers are supposed to get "secure the border", "amnesty" and "illegals" in every sound bite, so Stephenson has to improve a bit before she goes "big time".

[mdmc]

1. No one has addressed illegal immigration until now..

this is what happens when politicians toe the corporate line too long..

[pampango]

3. It's the republicans who want "secure the border" only. Organized labor, the Progressive Caucus, and

and every other liberal/progressive group that I'm aware of are in favor of comprehensive reform, while every conservative/tea party group is in favor of militarizing the border as their one and only strategy (because they think it makes for good election year politics).

The corporate line is to not allow for a path to citizenship ("amnesty for illegals" to Rush, Glenn, FOX and the rest of the corporate folks) because that makes them legal and much more difficult to exploit. Better to focus solely on border security (which scares voters into voting for you and like most things will never be 100% effective), so that the pool of exploitable workers remains as large as possible for as long as possible

The Border Patrol has 50% more officers than it did a few years ago, deportations are much higher under Obama than they were under Bush (a sore point with many Hispanic and progressive groups), illegal border crossings are down 50%, crime along the border and in the state of Arizona is low and declining and the Obama administration is auditing the records of thousands of employers checking their I-9 records regarding the legal status of their employees - something that Bush never did.

"No one has addressed illegal immigration until now.." - If we repeat it often enough, it must be true.

[joanmj]

4. thanks

[EFerrari]

17. Great summary. n/t

[conservdem]

21. If you are correct about this:

"deportations are much higher under Obama than they were under Bush (a sore point with many Hispanic and progressive groups), illegal border crossings are down 50%, crime along the border and in the state of Arizona is low and declining and the Obama administration is auditing the records of thousands of employers checking their I-9 records regarding the legal status of their employees - something that Bush never did."

His admin is doing is poor job of getting these facts out.

BTW what do you mean be "comprehensive reform."

I admit I am most interested in seeing the border secure first a fore most and considering any other related issues after.

[primavera]

44. Comprehensive reform

Immigration is way too complex a phenomenon to be treated as a simple security problem. US companies send vans with food and water to the border to pick up undocumented border crossers and shuttle them off to housing and jobs working in the US agricultural, meat-packing, hospitality, construction, etc. industries. In some instances (most notoriously Tyson's Chicken, although they are by no means the only US company to do so), the US companies will even pay the fees of smugglers to bring workers across the border illegally. They do so because undocumented workers can be paid low wages and cowed into accepting unsafe and unfair working conditions under threat of being reported and deported. Industries where labor is the primary cost of doing business are thus able to save a bundle by employing undocumented labor. And that in turn, allows them to offer lower prices at the supermarket or hotels or wherever. Since American consumers refuse to pay a penny more than they have to, only those businesses which can offer the cheapest prices can thrive in our country.

So, even if it were possible to create a totally impenetrable Berlin Wall along the southern border (which it isn't), the sudden drop in cheap labor would have American businesses and consumers screaming when the cost of goods and services went up. That, in turn, would result in more imported goods from third world countries (which has been MalWart's strategy), thus further unbalancing the international trade balance. That in turn drives up inflation, which in turn motivates still more businesses in the US to avail themselves of the generous tax credits our government awards to companies which fire their US workers and open up operations offshore. So, "securing the borders" would have far-reaching consequences economically.

Now add in the civil liberties issues. Arizona's new law authorizes state officials, without any training or supervision, to enforce law in an exclusively federal jurisdiction. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials, who do possess substantial training in immigration law and the sorts of documents needed to establish one's lawful presence in the US, already make a fair number of mistakes and accidentally deport quite a number of US citizens and lawful permanent residents, virtually all of whom just happen to be brown of skin. Consider how many more such mistakes are going to be made now that Arizona has authorized its police to take action against anyone they think might be an illegal immigrant. Oh yeah, that's going to go over great.

Now consider the fact that we have already, by some estimates, as many as 11 million undocumented workers already in the US. How are you going to persuade them to emerge from the sweatshops and the grey economy? By offering to throw them in prison and eventually deporting them? Astonishingly, very few undocumented aliens will take you up on that offer. So even if you can prevent any more undocumented aliens from entering the US (which you can't), you have 11 million who are already here and are damned sure never going to let you know who they are as long as the best option you can offer them is prison and deportation.

In sum, the goal of comprehensive reform is to look at all of these issues and ripple effects and try to come up with a policy which addresses as many of them as possible. Immigration is waaaaaaaaaay too inextricably intertwined with American business, American consumerism, international trade, the strength and health of the economy, wealth distribution, government regulation, states' rights versus federal authority, civil liberties and legal rights, and about a million other issues I haven't even begun to touch on yet to be able to resolve anything by simply "securing the border," whatever that means.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catshrink]

2. "get our nation back"

This comes up again and again with the teabaggers - it's like a rallying cry. I just wish someone would ask them what it means. I think we know: it's code for run out all people of color.

[ixion]

5. It's the Nation of Arizonastan.

Coming to a third world near you very, very soon.

[Chan790]

51. The native Americans would probably also like their nation back.

I say this, thinking the best solution might be to buy the tea-baggers one-way tickets to wherever they came from. I'm not sure Crazyland has an open-borders policy though.

[michaelm337]

6. Arizona Law

It would seem to me that if you are not an American Indian
you are an illegal immigrant.

[SnakeEyes]

7. Well

Good luck with that argument catching on.

[primavera]

45. Lmao!

Yeah, I always love to hear California conservatives rant about the horror of Spanish being spoken in California, as if English were the indigenous language! Hello? Hate to be the one to break it to you guys, but Spanish was spoken in California LOOONG before English was!

[conservdem]

22. Welcome. Do you really believe that?

[totodeinhere]

35. Did the Native Americans have immigration laws? I don't think so. n/t

[atreides1]

39. Does it really matter

The Europeans were invaders, people who were not invited, but showed up any way.

Laws or no laws, what were the traditions of those Native Americans who had first contact with the European invaders?

[Unvanguard]

8. What they mean is "Brown people are dangerous criminals." There is nothing else to it.

Naked racism.

[Lagomorph]

46. I find it far more complex than that...nt

[Unvanguard]

48. No, it is not any more complex. It is racist hysteria.

The vast, overwhelming majority of "illegal" immigrants pose no threat to public safety whatsoever. Measures like SB 1070 will not improve public safety; they will only further marginalize and criminalize peaceful people, many of whom have been here for many years, and intensify the racist targeting of Hispanics quite irrespective of their legal status. That is what this is really about; the pretexts are unfounded.

[Lagomorph]

49. If it was just people passing through, I'd agree...

...but the crime and drug problems bring attention to the issue.

[Unvanguard]

50. Native-born citizens commit crimes and abuse drugs

and they do so more often than immigrants do.

And there is no reason to believe that SB 1070 will have any effect on those problems. People who commit crimes can already be arrested and imprisoned by Arizona police. The only thing this law does is expand their reach so that they can more easily target and harass non-criminal immigrants too.

[primavera]

47. Unlawful entry isn't "criminal"

If it were, undocumented border crossers would be entitled by the Constitution to the legal protections afforded to criminals, such as the right to a speedy trial, right to counsel, protection from unreasonable search and seizure, the right to not self-incriminate, etc.. But we don't want immigrants to have the rights given to criminals, so we define immigration violations as purely civil violations. Can't have it both ways, people. If these guys are criminals, then they're entitled to protection under the Constitution; if they aren't entitled to those rights, then they aren't criminals. Take your pick, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Downwinder]

9. Sounds like bully talk to me.

[and-justice-for-all]

10. and the "wars" in the middle east are protecting my freedoms...

:eyes:

[krabigirl]

12. Yep, just like the Patriot Act and homeland security. Same old tired crap...

nothing new here.

[Francisco]

11. Repeal NAFTA..

and come down on the companies hiring illegals not the illegals themselves.

Also the Mexican government needs to stop laying in bed with the drug lords that really run Mexico, which is a bi-product of NAFTA, and get rid of the black market created by them.

How do you get rid of the black market? Either use our troops to go in there and systematically disband drug cartels or legalize drugs and watch the black market collapse on itself. The first probably being almost impossible to do and the second being the lesser of two evils.

And yes the "this law protects our citizens safety" rehtoric is blanket racism making people think the brown Mexican illegals come to America to rape and pillage. In reality the illegals are trying to escape their crime infested homelands and live a happy prosperous life. The ones that do commit crimes do so for the same reason any American citizen would, oppression and the lack of options to secure enough capital to sustain a happy and prosperous life in America.

[jaybeat]

13. Can you hear us now, brown people?

Because this land is not brown people's land. This land is white people's land. We stole it. We killed for it. We exploited it. We conquered it. We won, you lost. We have our spoils of victory; where are yours?

[EFerrari]

18. The white nationalist sites sell the button: "imagine 2040".

Which, presumably, is the date that they stop being the majority.

[Downwinder]

19. If they don't like the statistics, they should change them; procreate. n/t

[awoke_in_2003]

32. Do we really want...

the racist asshats to procreate more? Sorry, I would rather clean out that end of the gene pool.

[jwirr]

14. Yeah by pulling them over and detaining them until they can prove

they are citizens.

[L0oniX]

15. Is anyone coming up with a solution to the problem to counter what they are doing?

[EFerrari]

16. Again, it's mostly a perception problem.

Crimes is way down in Arizona, per the Justice Department. Immigration has been trending down for the last FIVE years. How do you solve that?

We need comprehensive reform. I don't think there is a fix for their racism. That's what keeps the tea klanners together as a group.

[DBoon]

20. Make Mexico a free and prosperous country?

Economics drives immigration.

The alernative is to make the USA as impoverished and corrupt as Mexico

[conservdem]

23. How can Mexico be made a free and prosperous country?

[ProudDad]

28. Repeal NAFTA...

Stop financing the repressive forces in Mexico...

Get our grubby USAmerikan hooks out of their political processes...

Stop exploiting the world for the tiny minority of greedy USAMerikan people...

Power Down and live better...

www.transitionus.org

[EFerrari]

25. Another alternative is for the US to stop exporting its corruption to Mexico

if it doesn't want to harvest economic refugees.

[ProudDad]

27. Yes...

The best solution I've heard is voter registration drives among the oppressed populations in the districts that keep "electing" these fascists...

[Blue_Tires]

38. my suggestion was to have

police do a LOT of stops in gated communities and near the upper-crust country clubs...maybe even set up checkpoints in those areas -- you know; just to keep it equal and prove to everyone that this new law wasn't just about racial profiling...

you stop enough "certain" kinds of people, and they will be begging to repeal this law they once supported overnight...

[Downwinder]

40. Surely all of the State Legislators carry proof of citizenship.

Lets find out.

[ProudDad]

26. Amnesty for contributing immigrants...end the phony "war on drugs"

Reform the immigration process -- put people of darker hue on the same basis as Caucasians...

Problem solved...


Of course, that would hurt the GDP -- the only legitimate measure of USAmerikan "success"...

[dballance]

29. I Guess These Idiots Don't Realize We stole the land from Mexico

What a bunch of buffoons. They haven't the slightest clue that the white men took the land from the very people they want to harass. It's not the white man's land to defend. They stole it. Look up "Manifest Destiny." A nice way to say I have guns and I want your land so to bad for you.

[awoke_in_2003]

33. self delete. nt

[totodeinhere]

34. And the Spanish stole that same land from the Native Americans.

What's your point? If every piece of "stolen" land had to be returned, the world map would be totally turned upside down and there would be total chaos. And all of we whites would have to go back to Europe and give North America back to the native Americans. It doesn't do any good to re-fight the Mexican–American War. Let it rest.

[EFerrari]

36. Mexico is 83% mestizo.

Which means 83% of the people there have both indigenous and European DNA, and the nation treasures its indigenous heritage. Not at all like the US. There is a through line from the people whose land was stolen and modern Mexicans of a kind we don't really have here in any number.

[ProudDad]

43. Classic Denialist Retort (n/t)

[madrchsod]

30. joe`s not going to turn them over to the feds?

good luck with that joe.....

[Blue_Tires]

37. someone should remind him whose tax dollars feed and clothe prisoners...

[awoke_in_2003]

31. "get our nation back"

I'm confused- I thought we had to get our country back because we have a black president :rofl:

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[awoke_in_2003]

42. I'll make sure to ask my wife...

(who is a third generation Mexican American) about that "American hospitality". If you are white like me, you probably don't see it. But if you skin is a bit darker then your take on "American hospitality" is much different.

[muntrv]

52. Uh Pam? Arizona was a part of Mexico until the USA took it by force

from them. Therefore, it's not "your land."