White House looking into Gaza clash

[Barack_America]

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - The United States said on Monday it deeply regretted the deaths and injuries caused when Israeli commandos stormed a convoy of Gaza-bound aid ships leading to 10 deaths.

POLITICS

"The United States deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries sustained, and is currently working to understand the circumstances surrounding this tragedy," said White House spokesman William Burton.

President Barack Obama was in Chicago for the Memorial Day holiday. He had been scheduled to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas at the White House on Tuesday but that meeting was now in doubt as Netanyahu considered returning home to handle the crisis.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64U1VV20100531?type=politicsNews

---

Also:

Source: Ha'aretz

White House 'deeply regrets' loss of life on Gaza flotilla

UN calls for full inquiry after Israel Navy commandos storm international aid boat; European Union condemns incident.

The White House on Monday said it "deeply regretted" the loss of life and injuries sustained in the clashes after Israel Navy troops stormed a convoy of international activists bringing aid to the Gaza Strip, leaving at least 10 people dead.

"The United States deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries sustained, and is currently working to understand the circumstances surrounding this tragedy," said White House spokesman William Burton.

United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called for a full investigation and expressed shock at Israel's storming of the flotilla.

"It is vital that there is a full investigation to determine exactly how this bloodshed took place. I believe Israel must urgently provide a full explanation," he said at a press conference in the Ugandan capital of Kampala....

Read More:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/white-house-deeply-regrets-loss-of-life-on-gaza-flotilla-1.293299

MODS! This story pertains to US reaction regarding an international incident and thus meets the DU rules for inclusion in LBN rather than being moved to the I/P forum

"7. Discussion of Israeli/Palestinian issues is not permitted in the Latest Breaking News forum, and instead must be posted in the Israeli/Palestinian Affairs forum. If, however, the news item is primarily about U.S. policy in Israeli/Palestinian affairs, you may post it in the Latest Breaking News forum."

--Thank you.

[Barack_America]

1. MODS! Please do not move this story per Rule 7 of LBN posting guidelines.

Thank you.

[Violet_Crumble]

2. +1

[anigbrowl]

Seconded

This is a very important story. I would much rather see messages from the usual partisan trolls deleted than the story moved. It is LBN material - this is of global significance, controversial or not.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[truth2power]

84. thanks anigbrowl. n/t

[Poll_Blind]

16. +1

:thumbsup:

PB

[NoodleyAppendage]

90. Thank heavens for Rule 7! Arbitrary...well, not so arbitrary, censorship sucks. n/t

J

[Raksha]

112. +1 Mods, please don't move this one to the dungeon.

[MindandSoul]

122. + 1!

[defendandprotect]

124. +1000% --

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

137. Yes -- another dungeon that should be rethought . . . .

Lot of anti-Israel sentiment here that doesn't get expressed, IMO --

Think Skinner/Administration know that quite well . . . !!

And, very often articles like this one are just flipped out of General and off to

Israel never-never-land.



:)

[Forkboy]

160. To be fair, I was here before the I/P Forum was created.

And the topic was pretty much impossible to discuss. It was the ugliest topic on DU for quite awhile, and it drew in some seriously ugly comments from both sides. While I'm not crazy about the idea of shuffling threads off to I/P when they know it's just going to get locked down there, I also know why the forum was created and why it has such strict rules.

Maybe a modification of I/P's rules are in order so that threads getting moved there can stand for awhile, but I pity the mods who end up dealing with it. I truly do understand why posters are upset at the rule, and I also truly understand why it's there in the first place.

[Odin2005]

163. I usually try to stay out of I/P threads and I agree.

The whole problem is such a mess, with both sides guilty of truly heinous and disgusting behavior. I'd much rather stay out of the flame-fests.

[harun]

135. +1

[Enthusiast]

239. +1 nt

[mdmc]

240. 1

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

4. It will be interesting to see the US response...

Does anyone know whether any of the ships flying the US flag were boarded? I'd imagine if they have been involved, then it's possible the US response is going to be rather cranky...

[Barack_America]

5. One ship was apparently flying the US flag.

Per this article from yesterday:
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/159807

No word on what happened to that ship.

[Violet_Crumble]

7. If you hear anything about what's happened to that ship, would you mind letting me know?

If this thread gets banished to the I/P forum, would you mind PMing me coz I don't waste my time reading anything in that forum...

[sasquuatch55]

33. And some wonder why Iran desires to protect itself. I'm sure what Israel does....

..will only slightly be condemned by US and UK, and just for show!

[truth2power]

39. If I were in charge in Iran, I would have my scientists working overtime

to produce nuclear weapons. And I say this as a person who is opposed to nuclear weaponry of any sort.

[Pavulon]

50. Nuclear weapons are useless. No one will use them and their impact is limited

on the scale that Iran could deploy them.

[Mike K]

180. That mistaken belief is predicated on

your own comparatively rational (non-suicidal) orientation. Which is to say that prior to the 9/11 attack, which dramatically familiarized the complacent Western world with the fact that the most dangerous enemy is the one who is ready to sacrifice his own life to strike at you, most Americans would have agreed with you. But we know better now.

So if you think that self preservation will inhibit a fanatical Islamic power from attacking us with a nuclear weapon I respectfully suggest that you research the more profound implications of the jihadist mentality. These fanatics will happily earn a trip to heaven by making the sacrifice needed to send us to hell -- and they don't care who among the non-believers in their own population they take with them.

[cosmicone]

230. Iran doesn't have a jihadist mentality

nor does any other Islamic country. Jihad is a phenomenon of non-state actors.

It is sheer propaganda to paint Iran as "insane" when Iran's moves are to the contrary.

[Ken Burch]

224. So you'd also agree that Israel should be nuclear-free?

And that Mordechai Vanunu committed no real crime?

[David__77]

57. What's the point?

And besides, from a pure standpoint of inflicting mayhem and death, chemical weapons are probably much more practical. Syria has them in abundance, as, of course, does the US.

[truth2power]

243. The point I was trying to make

was that we only attack countries that DON'T have nuclear weapons.

Whether or not countries so-defended would ever use their weapons, or whether it would be a good idea doesn't seem to come into play.

We only attack countries that can't defend themselves. Which makes us cowards of the first order, IMO, but that's a discussion for another time.

[bananas]

86. Israel is moving three nuclear-armed subs to Iran

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x313656

Israeli nuclear subs 'to set sail for Iran'
Source: Press TV

Amid speculations about Israel's hostile future policies against Iran, a report says Israel is to deploy three submarines equipped with nuclear cruise missiles in the Persian Gulf.

Three German-made submarines belonging to Israel's Flotilla 7 will be sent near the Iranian coastline, The Sunday Times reported.

The nuclear-armed vessels named Dolphin, Tekuma and Leviathan have previously been sent to the region but according to the British daily's report, the Israeli Navy has fresh plans to keep at least one of the submarines in the region on a permanent basis.

The report comes as an unnamed flotilla commander confirmed a 'very far' mission in an interview with an Israeli daily.

<snip>

[peacetalksforall]

87. It's already been decided that nuclear power within such a short distance means that

everyone gets killed or gets cancer or loses the organs and limbs and skin and sight. It is not profitable in the long run, but toys and macho rule, plus there is big money in trading parts, supplies, technology, secrecy, launchers - that's where it's at. Constant fear means constant attempts at control of spread of fear.

[Pavulon]

93. There is video of US forces riding into the base of a nuclear explosion

their effect on battle is much less than their effect on infrastructure, people, cities, etc.

[defendandprotect]

125. Agree . . . nuclear insanity . . .but hawks control our futures, evidently -- !!!

[Name removed]

228. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[anigbrowl]

9. uk conservative govt already demanded an end to the Gaza blockade

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jr_hbxTQZnutHIkKo6MjD4UOmiAwD9G1QF6O0
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10196351.stm

[caseymoz]

34. Turkey is a part of NATO. It might as well have been a US-flagged ship.

It's an act of war with a NATO power, and piracy is defined as a crime against humanity. Is the US now going to jettison its NATO obligation to support Israel? If so, we'll truly be isolated.

[Barack_America]

38. That's a good point.

Hard to miss the Turkish flag on that boat.

[avaistheone1]

47. It was also known internationally and widely published that this was a goodwill ship with food and

medical supplies for Gaza.

Israel knew the people on this ship were innocent civilians and people of peace.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pavulon]

73. Complete bullshit. The US does not have nuclear weapons

in israel and the us design has never been transferred to any nation other than the UK.

Care to back any of that with a source (not common dreams, et al) Janes defense, etc.

[WileEcoyote]

83. So they say, ya trust anyone in this game?

I don't.

In two weeks it's old news. No one really cares. Just a chance for all the surrounding nations to blow off steam.

[Ignis]

165. How about the Turkish Prime Minister? Shall we trust him?

6:12pm: Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey's prime minister, says the flotilla was carefully inspected before departure:

I want to say to the world, to the heads of state and the governments, that these boats that left from Turkey and other countries were checked in a strict way under the framework of the rules of international navigation and were only loaded with humanitarian aid."

There was no one on board "other than civilian volunteers" he said.

-- http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2010/05/31/live-coverage-israels-flotilla-raid

[WileEcoyote]

175. to a word? No.

[Chulanowa]

181. Why not?

Please, elaborate on your reasons. Consider the following.

1) Despite recent cooled relations, Turkey and Israel are actually allies, and have been almost since Israel's creation.
2) If the prime Minister is wrong, it's his ass. If he's lying, it's his ass and probably his government's ass, too.

So, why?

[WileEcoyote]

212. In a room full of gangsters, murderers and pickpockets?

I don't believe anything.

Israel is very adept at this game. We don't know where they've got their spys nor what goods they have on world leaders.

The attack on the Turkish ship may have had nothing at all to do with the Gaza crisis. The provocation may have been devised specifically to put the Turkish Prime Minister between a rock & hard place. we just don't know.

Fact is we don't know what level the Israelis are playing on because they play on more levels than we can comprehend.

If Israel pissed off the Prime Minister you'd better believe that they knew what they were doing when they did it. This is advanced chess not checkers.

[Chulanowa]

216. I'd have to argue otherwise

Israel may not be playing on a level we can comprehend, but I would contend that this is more because Israel is led by very stupid people, rather than othe opposite.

Israel's plots and plans all seem to hinge on the fact that the US will always be there to clean up after them. In this regard they act like a spoiled child with very patient parents. The kid acts out, just to see what he can get away with. Maybe he thinks that what he does will get him some benefit, but if it doesn't, oh well, his parents are there to shield him from any harm.

That's Israel. I'm sure Israel knew what they were doing. I just figure that they did it for no damn good reason except to show off that htey did it. There is literally no gain to be had here, and if you have to excuse it away as a game of six-dimensional parcheesi or something, you're basically admitting that the whole thing was totally senseless.

[WileEcoyote]

221. Maybe the roles are reversed.

The parent is acting poorly. The Americans are the child.

[Ignis]

247. Well, that's what racism gets you, I suppose.

Pity someone let those riff-raff into NATO and the EU, innit?

:eyes:

[NorthCarolina]

6. The count is up to 19 dead now, and scores injured. eom

[Barack_America]

8. Netanyahu gives "full backing" for military actions in flotilla raid; scheduled to meet with Obama..

this week.

We'll see if that happens. I have my doubts.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ioCnWGidrUyMHzeKXNhfa1D-MrzgD9G1QQ1O2

[anigbrowl]

11. Yeah, i rather doubt he's welcome in DC right now.

[Mari333]

15. a neocon is a neocon

but we will still send them oooodles of cash

[Barack_America]

20. I can't possibly imagine that Obama could welcome him now.

He's reportedly in Canada now. I'll have to check and see if I can find a statement from Canada on this event.

ETA: Surprise, surprise. Harper appears to have no issues with the flotilla deaths and will meet with Netanyahu as planned.

:eyes:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/816726--israeli-pm-to-continue-canada-visit-despite-diplomatic-crisis

[totodeinhere]

41. No, the right wingers in Washington would welcome him with open arms. n/t

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

69. Netanyhu should be in jail with Bush/Cheney . . . and anyone who supports this evil deed -- !!

[truth2power]

134. +1000% n/t

[movonne]

139. YES!!!!

[Violet_Crumble]

10. Regularly updated timeline of events from the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10196585.stm

[Violet_Crumble]

12. Irish government concern for citizens on Gaza aid ship

Foreign Minister Micheal Martin is seeking information on the safety of eight Irish people on a convoy of ships stormed by Israeli commandos.

More than 10 people were killed, the Israeli army said, after armed forces boarded the largest vessel carrying aid to the Gaza Strip.

Israel says its soldiers were shot at; the activists say Israeli troops came on board shooting.

Mr Martin has summoned the Israeli ambassador to explain what happened.

In a statement, the minister said Israeli authorities had a "consular obligation to ensure the safety and security of the Irish citizens concerned".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/northern_ireland/10198003.stm

[defendandprotect]

70. Peace activists . . . dangerous time for those who want peace . . .!!

[mbperrin]

95. Most people do seem to hate peace and peacemakers -

they nailed that Jesus guy to a board, shot Gandhi to death, shot MLK to death.

Yep, if you have a suicide wish, just go spouting off about peace and love and all that. People sure do seem to be purely enraged by it.

I wonder, while the US is "trying to understand" this, if they might consider the dreaded "sternly worded letter"? You know, not TOO stern, or maybe a sharply intoned telephone call, or perhaps a quick dirty look, or maybe even just a deep sigh....


Yeah, probly not...

[defendandprotect]

116. Agree . . . .

except, think it is not all people, but the few among us -- elites -- willing to be

violent to hold control over wealth and natural resources.

A perpetual war on nature --

and soon, it seems, perpetual wars everywhere on the planet!

Gandhi, MLK, JFK, RFK, John Lennon -- anyone who figures it out and starts telling the

world what's going on --

:)

[mbperrin]

198. You're right - those same elites use the media to make it SEEM

like everyone, but you are right, it is just the money class.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Barack_America]

17. Lieberman, ""the flotilla is an attempt at violent propaganda against Israel"

"There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza"

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3895506,00.html

This from before the attack.

Avigdor Lieberman is a dangerous, dangerous man.

[activa8tr]

25. he's dangerous and an horse's ass, too!

I really wish there were some way of sending him on one of those Gaza relief ships.

[Odin2005]

171. I wonder if he's distantly related to Traitor Joe Loserman.

[anigbrowl]

18. off topic

Please confine yourself to discussing current events rather than general editorializing about Israel.

[olegramps]

61. That is a crock. We have been financing and fighting proxy wars for these assholes.

[anigbrowl]

65. you can discuss that in I/P

I am not trying to argue with your opinion, just avoid a general flamefest which will result in the thread being moved out of LBN.

[Mari333]

14. livestream

http://www.livestream.com/insaniyardim

[JAbuchan08]

19. "leading to 10 deaths"

that strikes me as weasel words. It should be something more like "causing 10 deaths"

[chimpymustgo]

40. KILLING 10- 20 PEOPLE. Actually, MURDERING.

[avaistheone1]

49. YES, IT IS TERRORISM OF THE HIGHEST ORDER.

These were peaceful unarmed civilians.

[Mosby]

109. Have you seen the video from the IDF?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo&feature=player_embedded#

The soldiers were attached the minute they hit the deck.

[anigbrowl]

114. yes...and i can also see it has been edited

No they did not get a warm reception. I cannot tell what happened before the start or between the cuts. I do not think that beginning with a commando team was a wise approach to the situation either.

[defendandprotect]

117. Wow! ...

[Warren Stupidity]

130. The people threw chairs at pirates?

That video?

Ask your boss for better propaganda.

[Mosby]

136. And beaten with metal pipes and stabbed.

No matter how you spin it they was no justification for what these "peace activists" did during the boarding.

[Warren Stupidity]

138. Oddly the rest of the world isn't buying your bullshit.

I guess we are all just anti-semites, right?

[Mosby]

143. No, your just blinded by ideology.

Not only did the "peace activists" start the violence, but the boarding itself was likely legal:


SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT

Neutral merchant vessels

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture


http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082b509e76c41256739003e636d/7694fe2016f347e1c125641f002d49ce

[Warren Stupidity]

157. meh

It is an odd world view where a helicopter gunship commando assault is not 'starting the violence'.

[liberation]

178. Wow... Projection really is a cruel mistress.

Of course I am certain this is flying over your head... but good grief if it takes balls to accuse people who condemn the killing of civilians as being "blinded by ideology." What's next in your bag of tricks? trying to make a connection between having empathy for other human beings and the actions of the nazis?

[movonne]

151. This really get me when you are accused of being anti-semitic

for criticizing Israel...

[Bettie]

145. So, they should have just sat and quietly waited to get shot

by pirates boarding their ship in international waters?

Really?

[sabrina 1]

146. Almost every news report has stated that they were

firing as they boarded the ship. But aside from that, the ship was in International Waters and if they wanted to speak to the captain (who was shot and wounded btw so he didn't get much of a chance to decide) that was possible to do without sending in heavily armed commandos firing weapons as they landed. There were too many witnesses to this incident, too many news agencies from around the world present, for these lies to have any traction.

Better to tell the truth, admit it was wrong, apologize to the world and the families of those who died, to all the governments involved and then pay compensation to the families.

When that is done, the Israeli people need to rid themselves of their far right government which is certainly not doing anything to bolster their reputation around the world.

Aside from anything else, this was pure stupidity as far as PR goes. It gives credence as far as the rest of the world is concerned, to what the Palestinians have been claiming, right down to lying about 'being attacked'.

[Jester Messiah]

244. Self defense?

They were boarded in international waters by armed commandos. People have a right to defend themselves against piracy. Also, taking on armed commandos with improvised weapons seems to me like an act of desperation, as though they expected to be killed regardless and therefore resolved not to go down without a fight.

After all, what sort of person looks at an armed & armored soldier and decides to go after it with a knife?

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Odin2005]

172. The crew were defending themselves from IDF THUGS.

[Pavulon]

203. By trying to kill them. This would get an armed response by any one from local PD to

operators from any military.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo

[Poll_Blind]

21. Responses from Turkey, Ireland, Germany, Sweden, France, Russia, Greece (+more) here:

These are just the ones I could quickly pull up on Google News. This event has caused an unusually strong international response:

Turkey - Recalls Ambassador to Israel, demands UN Security Council meeting (6 of 19 killed were Turkish):

As Prime Minister Rajab Tayyip Erdogan is abroad, his deputy Bulent Arinc said that besides recall of an ambassador, 3 military trainings which were planned to hold with Israel had also been cancelled. He noted that Turkish U- 18 national football team has refused to participate in planned matches in Israel and returned to homeland.

Ireland - Summoned Israeli Ambassador for explanation:

"We hope the Ambassador will accept our request on this occasion as regrettably he has not always responded positively to the Committee's invitations. -Micheál Martin, Irish Minister of Foreign Affairs

Germany - Germany "shocked" by Israeli attack on Gaza aid flotilla

According to German government spokesman Ulrich Wilhelm, German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle had telephoned his Israeli colleague Avigdor Lieberman and requested a comprehensive investigation, including demanding a quick clarification of the fate of five German nationals who are believed to be on board. German news channel N-TV reported that the five Germans include Inge Hoeger and Annette Groth, both members of parliament of the German Left Party.

Sweden - Sweden summons Israeli ambassador, calls for EU response:

"We have summoned the Israeli ambassador to get information," Bildt said, adding he had also been in touch with the European Union's foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton to ensure that the EU gives a "clear response during the day when we get a clearer picture of what has happened."

Among issues needing clarification was if the events took place on international waters or in Israel's territorial waters, he said.

France - Sarkozy Condemns Israeli Attack against Aid Flotilla:

French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Monday condemned Israel's attack against an international flotilla to Gaza, a statement issued by his office said. "The President of the Republic expressed his profound emotion to the tragic consequence of Israel's military operation against the 'peace flottia' destination to Gaze," the statement said. "He condemns the disproportionate use of military force and sends his condolences to victims' families," the statement added.

Russia - Calls attack "unjustified", demands meeting of Mideast Quartet:

“It was a humanitarian, not a political action, and that means it was unjustified to use military force against the participants,” said Konstantin Kosachev, head of the country’s parliamentary foreign policy committee, as reported by Interfax.

Mr. Kosachev demanded an “immediate” meeting of the Mideast quartet, which consists of Russia, the US, the UN and EU, to discuss the incident. Depending on Israeli answers to certain questions, the issue might have to be referred to the UN Security Council, he said.

Pakistan - Condemns attack, concerned about three citizens:

“The killing of members of this humanitarian mission, which also included women, is brutal, inhuman and constitutes a flagrant violation of international law and norms,” the Foreign Office said in Islamabad.

Jordan - Jordan slams Gaza ship raid, summons Israeli envoy:

Jordan harshly condemned the Israel Defense Forces' action against the Gaza-bound aid ships on Monday, and said "the horrible crime cannot be justified." The Jordanian government issued a statement saying, "The fact that civilians were targeted is a crime which we harshly condemn."

Belgium - Criticizes raid:

Belgian Foreign Minister Steven Vanackere has criticized Israel's brutal storming of the Gaza peace flotilla. Talking to the Belgian television station RTBF on Monday, Vanackere said Israel's use of force was "disproportionate." "The use of violence is very regrettable," he added. Dozens of foreign activists were killed and injured after Israeli commandos stormed a flotilla of six ships bound for the Gaza Strip with aid.

Greece - (~60 Greeks participated in the Flotilla) http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/31/latest-developments-raids-in-gaza/">Summond Israeli Ambassador:

Greece also summoned the Israeli ambassador in Athens to demand a report on the safety of Greek passengers aboard the flotilla. After the meeting, the Greek foreign ministry said that the visit of the Israeli Joint Chiefs - scheduled for Tuesday - is being postponed, and that the Greek-Israeli military exercise that was in progress has been discontinued.

[anigbrowl]

23. and the UN

I can't cut and paste easily on my phone but pretty much everyone who cares about the middle east has condemned this action.

[Poll_Blind]

24. I expect it's likely the UN and EU will convene sometime soon over this. n/t

PB

[Tripmann]

28. Correct

The UNSC are meeing later today in relation to this

[Poll_Blind]

32. Wow, just 3 hours from now, too! That's some quick, right there. (LINK)

UN Security Council to hold emergency session over Gaza flotilla deaths

Thanks for the tip!

PB

[anigbrowl]

63. Woah. That is definitely unusual, and a very bad sign for Israel.

I am not emotionally involved in this issue. While sympathetic to the Palestinians I am also sympathetic to the historic reasons for Israel's founding. I do not care for the blockade of Gaza...or for Hamas. I have had a fairly cynical view of these relief flotillas as basically propaganda exercises.

But none of that excuses violence and killing. And what the Israeli government seems not to have appreciated is that a good number of the 'passengers' are lawmakers from various countries, the EU parliament etc.. You do not attack ships carrying members of a country's government and expect to get away with it. It is dangerously close to an act of war. In this case, against multiple states. The longer I think about it the more amazed I am by the epic degree of stupidity displayed by Netanyahu's government.

[Barack_America]

88. At the very least, you wait for the flotilla to enter your waters.

"The longer I think about it the more amazed I am by the epic degree of stupidity displayed by Netanyahu's government."

+1 to this.

To attack a ship under the flag of a NATO nation in international waters? Stupidity on a level befitting the Bush administration.

[Poll_Blind]

115. I had to duck away for the last half hour or so to get breakfast prepared for...

...the family and I was talking about what you cover in your second paragraph quite extensively with my girlfriend. Very...very unusual. I'd read just a few days ago how Israel had set up a sort of reception tent where they would be "processing" those taken from the flotilla. They'd be given a choice: A) Free plane ticket back to country of origin (paid for by Israel) after signing a statement never to try to enter Israel again or B) be put in jail.

This sort of thing has happened in the past and I did not, really in my wildest imagination, would not imagine it going on like this.

The fact (or apparent fact) that this action was taken against a NUMBER of boats in the flotilla is also very puzzling and disturbing. In other words, this is not some specific incident which happened on one boat or something like that. I have been hugely critical of Israel's governments and actions in the past but this one...this one came out of no-where for me. I really didn't expect it.

PB

[Blue_Tires]

173. agreed...this is pretty brazen even by IDF standards...

[Mike K]

201. Stupidity?

There is nothing "stupid" about what Israel does. I believe the appropriate adjectives are ruthless and audacious.

[MindandSoul]

121. I sure hope we will soon read a stern condemnation of Israel from the US as well!

although I'm sure Lieberman and other "dual citizens" will do their best to put their spin on this sad story!

[Ignis]

153. Thanks for posting these, Poll_Blind!

:thumbsup:

[Wizard777]

22. IDF Piracy!

[activa8tr]

26. That is what is amounts to! Yes! n/t

[ensho]

27. probably all the W.H. will do is look and discuss

seems they too are afraid of Israel

[Barack_America]

30. Well, they may have just canceled Netanyahu's visit (see below).

[sasquuatch55]

36. Perhaps afraid; but definitely part of the US, UK, Israeli Imperialist agenda to gain control

....of the Middle East for it's strategic location, and it's resourses. Iran has always been in their sights and we continue to spew rhetoric to keep hostilities alive until that fateful day.

[Barack_America]

29. PM to cut short Canada visit, return to Israel

PM to cut short Canada visit, return to Israel

Published: 05.31.10, 16:58 / Israel News
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has decided to cut short his visit in Canada and move up his return to Israel, the Prime Minister's Office informed Monday. This, following the violent clash during the IDF's takeover of the Gaza aid flotilla on Sunday night.

It was further stated that Netanyahu will hold a meeting with Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper which was scheduled in advance within the next hour. (Roni Sofer)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896859,00.html

[flyarm]

140. What has Canada's response been ...and ours for that matter? eom

[Arctic Dave]

31. So, does this mean we will launch a few Tomohawks into israels commando training base?

Becuase this seems like piracy and terrorism together.

[Mari333]

37. god in heaven, look at the LIST of people on that ship

Partial list of passengers on board:

*USA

Greta Berlin. Co-founder of the Free Gaza Movement

Hedy Epstein (86) St. Louis, Missouri.

Katherine Elliott Sheetz (63) Woods Hole, Mass.. Registered Nurse. Master's degree.

David Schermerhorn (80) Deer Harbor, Washington State. Commercial film producer.

*UK

Alex Harrison (32) London. Solidarity worker.

Theresa McDermott (43) Edinburgh, Scotland. Logistics worker.

Denis Healey (55). Captain.

*IRELAND

Caoimhe Butterly 31. Human rights activist.

Mairead Maguire 66 Belfast. Nobel Peace Laureate.

Mark Daly 37 Kerry. Senator.

Shane Dillon (36) Dublin. Seafarer.

Fiachra O Luain 28 Carndonagh.

*HOLLAND

Annekarijn de Jong (29) Weesp. PhD researcher.

*BELGIUM

Griet M.A. Deknopper (Margarita) (32) Halle. Solidarity activist and teacher trainer.

Inge Neefs (26) Ghent. Studied educational sciences and holds a master in anthropology.

*GREECE

Giorgos Klontzas (39)

Agios Nikolaos. Professional diver and sailor.

*POLAND/UK

Ewa Jasiewicz (31) London, UK / Otwock, Poland. Journalist, community and union organizer, and solidarity worker.

*PALESTINE

Lubna Masarwa (32).

Huwaida Arraf (33) Ramallah, Palestine / Washington D.C. / Detroit, MI. JD. American University Washington College of Law. Twice been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.

Nader El Sakka (58) Hamburg.

*GERMANY

Annette Groth 56 Berlin, Member of Parliament in the German Bundestag.

Inge D.M. Höger 59 Herford. Member of Parliament in the German Bundestag

Matthias Jochheim 61 Frankfurt. Physician and psychotherapist.

Prof. Dr. Norman Paech 72 Hamburg. Member of Parliament in Germany's Bundestag. Professor of Public Law at the University in Hamburg.

Compiled from here:







http://www.freegaza.org/en/boat-trips/passenger-lists/75-ninth-trip-to-gaza-in-may-2010

[Barack_America]

43. It's an impressive list. Any word on who was killed and injured?

[RedstDem]

42. International waters?!

I find it incredible this occurred in international waters.

[chimpymustgo]

45. Murder, piracy in international waters. ACT NOW against this ROGUE STATE.

[sasquuatch55]

56. We too are a rogue state.

nt

[flyarm]

141. + 1 million..anyone remember us killing innocent people at weddings?eom

[SnakeEyes]

148. I've heard it was at 40nm

If true it was not in international waters and that claim must have been put out by those on the side of the flotilla

[Lydia Leftcoast]

46. Sorry, Israel, there is NO EXCUSE for attacking unarmed ships

just as there is no excuse for bombing the hell out of and blockading a heavily populated area just because a few of its residents send the occasional rocket your way and elect the "wrong" leaders.

[BREMPRO]

48. this makes me sick- and there can be NO justification for the actions of the Israeli's in killing

aid workers! The video just uploaded shows a group of civilians being murdered by Israeli soldiers. WTF? Cut off aid to Isreal NOW!

[Pavulon]

51. If someone disarmed a soldier and fired his weapon at him, that would do it.

The resulting automatic rifle fire would pretty much explain a mass casualty event. Waiting for more video.

[Barack_America]

52. What was that soldier doing on a ship in international waters in the first place?

[Pavulon]

54. The same the coast guard is doing in international waters intercepting boats

heading to the us.

[flyarm]

142. and keeping media out of the Gulf! eom

[MindandSoul]

149. These were not "coast guards" they were "commandos!"

[Pavulon]

182. Whats the difference? The USCG uses helicopters and zip lines

to put armed men on ships. Resistance would be met with force, force met with gunfire.

[David__77]

55. Yes, let us hope that there is good documentation.

I think that the Israeli military personnel should certainly have been equipped with video equipment in anticipation of the potential for such an incident.

[Pavulon]

58. That video will be vital at establishing the truth.

truth tends to cut through the spin that is bouncing around now.

[anigbrowl]

80. And if it doesn't fit your preferred version of events, what then?

Everyone knew that this was a multinational contingent, even if it had a primarily political purpose. Just What were they thinking by dropping commandos from a helicopter? That is a fundamentally aggressive approach.

[Pavulon]

91. That is how we board vessels. Aggressive would be attacking boarders

and if the video shows people sitting down singing being fired on, then that changes the dynamic.

[Capitalocracy]

103. So if a U.S. ship was near (not in) Iranian waters

you would expect them to come in on a helicopter and raid the ship, and any resistance would be met with deadly force, and you would be just fine with that?

BTW witnesses are saying the first shots, which caused injuries, were fired before they even got off the helicopter

[Pavulon]

106. Like the british soldiers taken there? No shots fired.

no boarding a warship is not the same. Apples oranges.

[bitchkitty]

104. Oh, but don't you know?

Someone disarmed a soldier and that's why everyone was shot. Pavulon just said so.

[Pavulon]

108. Waiting for video from Israeli side.

Seems like a reasonable response to me.

[movonne]

147. Oh! I'm sure they will come up with something....

[Pavulon]

205. This video would be it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo

note the armed men attacking. If i were on deck I would expect my door gunner to open fire about 30 seconds into this.

[sabrina 1]

166. Israel has ships armed with nukes in the waters surrounding

Iran. According to you, Iran has a right to send helicopters to drop commandos onto those ships firing their weapons as they land.

The Captain was shot btw, no reason given by the Israelis yet. Video from the Israelis has been released. Their credibility is not great at this point, as there are reports that even before the ships left, Israeli agents were interfering and harrassing the peace makers. Many believe that the video will be or has been edited. So I wouldn't be too excited about 'waiting for the video' if I were you.

The bottom line is that this was a peace mission which the world was watching and supportive of, reporters had been on the ships so much is already known about who they were and what they were carrying with them. Very credible citizens of many countries, including a holocaust survivor were part of the peace mission. Israel killed peace makers, in International waters, including some whose countries are members of NATO. Stupidity is too good a word for this action, not to mention the incredible loss of life for not good reason.

The only recourse for Israel is to apologize, fire whoever is responsible for ordering this travesty and start pulling their troops out of the West Bank. Anything short of that will only escalate the anger and probably result in isolating the country, as countries like Turkey and Greece have already cancelled joint military exercises with them.

[Pavulon]

185. I assume most of you guys have no concept of the real world beyond

your town. Never left it, go to college, no more. That is not how things work. Boardings at sea of civilian vessels is common. We do this every week, and we fire on ships outside of the US that do not follow USCG orders. We interdict people who are going to break the law.

Hey I think drugs should be legal, but the USCG does not and they are tasked to stop people breaking the law.

The bottom line is this was a stunt to get publicity and it went to shit for both parties. They were told to stop and did not.

Iran can not board a military vessel or flagged vessel, however if you post on your website that you intend to sail into iran with a ship full of aid they can and will stop you at gunpoint at sea. If you do not stop they will KILL you dead.

The world does not conform to those who do not understand how things work.

[mrdmk]

231. I do not understand how things work! Please enlighten me... n/t

[cosmicone]

233. You typed a lot about USCG but there IS a difference...

USCG only intercepts and boards vessels destined for the US territory. If a ship is hoing from Havana to Jamaica, USCG has no right to intercept/board it and doesn't do so.

In this case, the cargo was NOT headed for Israel but was headed for Gaza which is a separate territory which makes the Israeli action illegal.

[David__77]

But if the only video forthcoming is what's out there now, it doesn't look good for Israel.

That may not matter to Israelis or supporters of Israels blockade enforcement actions, but it is true. That a commando may have been wrestled with, or some sticks or clubs used will be of little importance, just as violence by students at Tienanmen was of little importance in the political interpretation internationally of events in China in 1989, for instance. I am not attempting to equate the two, simply provide an example. I do think it would be wise of Israeli spokespeople to tone down the rhetoric a bit and present what would appear to be a more balanced view rather than using too many slogans.

[Pavulon]

92. If the video shows one person attacking with a knife, axe, or gun

that changes things. The rest of it is irrelevant, the shooting is what matters.

[sabrina 1]

169. Why would it change things? If you are attacked by armed

commandos you have a right to defend yourself. Are you seriously expecting people to blame those people for trying to defend themselves with whatever they could find against a heavily armed commando attack? I think you are going to be very disappointed by the world's reaction regardless of how those peace activists tried to defend themselves. The Israelis did not belong on the ship ~ you keep forgetting that.

[Pavulon]

189. Sure they did, its their coast and these guys planned to land there.

any other country would do the same. I personally would not attack an armed man with an axe. I personally would not attack a coast guard crew who dug around my boat looking for coke.

The reaction is the point they wanted it , they got it. No one will give a shit if it was actually legal or provoked.

Its all in how the story gets sold.

[sabrina 1]

214. You seriously have some confused ideas about all this.

The ships were NOT headed to Israel, they were headed to the Gaza Strip which does not belong to Israel. You speak as if it does. I would try to educate myself if I were you, you are beginning to sound silly and disoriented as if you are thinking of something entirely different.

[Pavulon]

215. Israel controls the airspace and waters. A naval blockade.

remember the cuban missile crisis, it was one of those dealies.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo

[cosmicone]

234. Israel DOES NOT control it LEGALLY any more than

the Geneovese family controls the fish market.

Might DOES NOT make right. Just because Israel controls the seas and air with brute force doesn't mean it is LEGAL.

[boppers]

227. One person attacking justifies how many dead?

What?

[1monster]

127. I've seen you make this claim on another thread. Could you please provide a link referencing this?

The only link I've be able to find is one that has two mentions of students using DEFENSIVE violence after the Chinese Army attacked.

on edit: This post is directed to David 77, which is, for some reason listed as an OP.

[David__77]

194. What claim? About China?

Read any comprehensive book about the period. Maybe they were workers. From a Chinese view, see "Beijing Turmoil" published in 1990. There were funerals for dozens of PLA soldiers. It isn't a controversial claim. Yes, you could say it was defensive, even though people had been warned to stay off the streets, just as you could say using sticks and chairs was defensive on that ship even though they were warned to head a different course. At least the students were given a deadline though...

[proteus_lives]

129. I hope so too.

I've already seen much footage that supports and refutes both sides.

There needs to be a serious investigation.

[BREMPRO]

81. the israeli's should not have been there in the first place- NO justification.

this was a peaceful aid mission by a group of international supporters including a nobel prize winner, and former ambassadors from around the world to help gaza citizens who have suffered from the Israeli blockade. we will have to wait for a full investigation to get the details, but the fundamental long term brutal actions of Israel against the palestinians leading up to this tragedy is the central issue. blocking, boarding and attacking an aid ship in the middle of the night is provocative and will be condemned throughout the world. whatever the facts; whether the soldiers were attacked with knives and sticks, or greeted with white flags, this will not help the Israeli's cause= so it was a stupid act. I'm sick of us supporting this neo-con regime.

[Ignis]

167. Then he wouldn't be a soldier, but a pirate.

This incident happened in international waters.

[Pavulon]

187. So by this logic the US Coast Guard are pirates beyond 24 miles?

you are aware they operate beyond that range and board vessels, with armed parties.

[Barack_America]

188. The USCG gets permission to board vessels in international waters...

...a policy which I linked for you earlier, but you conveniently chose to ignore given it weakens your justification for Israel's actions.

[Pavulon]

190. If you refuse you can not enter us waters or they will board anyway

if they suspect you are carrying drugs. Guess what they will do if you swing an axe at them? I have been boarded by the USCG, Bahamas, and others. It is not a voluntary thing.

[Barack_America]

192. They were boarded before entering Israeli or Gazan waters.

The IDF did not attempt to impede their progress, they boarded and commandeered their ships while in international waters.

That is piracy.

[Pavulon]

193. SO the USCG are the pirates of the Caribbean then.

sail a vessel up from caymans and refuse a boarding at sea by the USCG and see what happens.

[Barack_America]

195. Under which country is your boat registered?

If you are registered under the US flag, then they certainly do not need to contact the State Dept. to get permission to board.

The USCG gets permission before boarding non-US vessels in international waters.

[Pavulon]

197. They attempt. If they get no contact they board anyway.

boarding may happen after they fire in front of the vessel or into it. Hence all the vessels from cuba and haiti that are boarded with out individual calls. Drug vessels are boarded without calls.

[Barack_America]

200. Alright, you clearly have your own version of reality and it's worthless debating it.

[Pavulon]

202. Were done, pull the video. THey were beaten with pipes on boarding. The USCG would fire

live ammunition in response to this act in any boarding operation. They would fire into the wheelhouse and the door gunner would fire on the people on deck with 240golf.

That was not a peaceful protest, it was force on force and escalated. You want them to wait until they hack the guys up and call their wives on their personal cell? Remember that.

If I were on that zip line I would have fired to protect my life.

[Name removed]

241. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ignis]

248. I don't give a toss about the USCG; we're talking about Israel.

And maritime law says that outside of wartime conditions, only the captain or the ship's government can give permission to board in international waters.

But it's certainly amusing to see a self-proclaimed LEO cheering for piracy on DU.

[Pavulon]

53. As a level set, the USCG intercepts vessels out to 200NM and boards them

if you fail to stop they will fire on your vessel , in international waters. If you react violently they will respond with lethal force. If someone disarmed a soldier and fired his weapon, that pretty much explains how a mass casualty event started.

[Barack_America]

59. You are incorrect.

The USCG, like Israel's navy, does not have the right to board such vessels just because they want to.

This may enlighten you...

"When a suspicious vessel is identified at sea, the Coast Guard notifies the State Department, which then gets permission from the vessel's flag nation for the Coast Guard to board. (In the rare instances when permission is denied, the Coast Guard will generally monitor the vessel as it approaches U.S. territory.)"

http://www.slate.com/id/1007689

This ship was flying Turkey's flag and given Turkey's response to this incident (formally recalling their ambassador, declaring Israel's actions to be in violation of international law, etc.), I'm going to guess that Israel was not given permission to board that ship.

[Pavulon]

62. Incorrect. The USCG or Navy

can board vessels anywhere it considers them a threat. They use the same tactics, zip line, to board. They do not bring CS gas.

[Recursion]

119. That is 100% false. Wars start that way.

The US Navy and Coast Guard absolutely do not have the right to board foreign ships in international waters.

[SnakeEyes]

150. He wasn't talking about international waters..

Why are you? 200 NM.

[Barack_America]

152. Because the Gaza flotilla was raided in international waters?

:shrug:

[anigbrowl]

155. untrue

The Exclusive Economic Zone of a country extends 200 nautical miles from shore - but that means they can claim fisheries, oil exploration rights and similar economic benefits.

Territorial waters, which is where a country has legal jurisdiction over other country's vessels is 12 NM.

[Ignis]

164. But this incident WAS in international waters.

:shrug:

[Pavulon]

196. Irrelevant. The ship declared intent to enter territorial waters. They dont have to wait

until they land on the beach or enter waters to act. The only thing in question is the events that led to gunfire.

The rest is established maritime law.

[ShamelessHussy]

64. do they open fire on a peace convoy with no weapons even before they board it?

looks more like pirates to me.

how many peace/aid convoys have the USCG opened fire on?

[olegramps]

77. You are absolutely wrong.

You can only board with the permission of the Captain or their government in international waters.

[Pavulon]

94. The US boards out to 200NM. Refusal to allow boarding is met with

escalating force. You can not refuse a USCG boarding.

[olegramps]

176. I believe that the 200 mile zone you are referring to is the Exclusive Economic Zone

This provides nations with protective control of the marine life and minerals with end the zone. The Territorial Zone was extended from 12 to 24 miles by the Law of the Sea Convention to which the United States is not signatory. We did however participate in the convention and have abided by its rulings.

[Pavulon]

186. We (the USCG) also board vessels beyond 24 miles

and we do fire on vessels who refuse to stop to be boarded.

[ShamelessHussy]

60. VIDEO from one of the ships under attack by sea and air even after white flag is raised - yikes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0GY-wFjFF8&feature=youtube_gdata

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pavulon]

75. The NSA released lots of info on that 40 year old event.

you can read and inform yourself. That event is the first rolled out in most anti israeli discussions.

There are far more current events that are of more import, but you guys dont do you homework.

[and-justice-for-all]

67. Israel is out of control...nt

[Tarc]

71. President Obama, cut ties to this nation of brutal thugs, NOW

It is time to cut Israel adrift, let them deal with rightfully angry neighbors on their own. It will only be a matter of time.

[Tarc]

72. A shame that Israeli apologists are waging such a giant unrecommend war

Pathetic.

[harun]

183. We outnumber them.

[olegramps]

74. Is our uncritical support of Israel in our best interest?

I consider Netanyahu to be little more than a war monger and it is absolutely certain that he was fully informed if not actually responsible for the assault on this peaceful mission.

Our uneven support of Israel is a major issue with Muslims throughout the entire Middle East. The Israelis have continued to build in occupied territory against the wishes of virtually every non-Muslim nation and hundreds of UN sanctions. I fear that they could be responsible for starting a nuclear war far more so than if Iran gained nuclear capability. I am damn sick of Israel's unwarranted influence on American policy that has resulted in our nation fighting proxy wars on the behalf of Israel that has turned the entire Middle East into our enemy.

[Wizard777]

76. No! It's getting to the point where we can be friends with Israel or the rest of the world.

We can't allow Israel to draws into isolation by supporting their criminal acts.

[Cartoonist]

78. My predictions

Israel will suffer no punishment in any form

Obama will support Israel

Congress will pass a decree in support of Israel

In my state, Feinstein, Boxer, Woolsey, and Pelosi will support Israel

Same old, same old.

[truth2power]

89. You are correct. n/t

[IDemo]

102. Exactly n/t

[mikita]

168. sadly, can't disagree -- wish I could n/t

[mwfolsom]

225. simply brilliant!

Me thinks you will score 100% on this batch of predictions - 

[Althaia]

79. Clarifying Israel's expectations and early US response

From an AP story, bold emphasis is mine.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100531/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

The showdown came at a sensitive time for Israeli-Palestinian peacemaking. Netanyahu, who expressed his "full backing" for the military raid, had hoped to receive a high-profile expression of support from Obama after months of strained relations over Israeli settlement construction.

The White House said in a written statement that the United States "deeply regrets" the loss of life and injuries and was working to understand the circumstances surrounding this "tragedy."

I find Israel's expectation of unquestioning, unconditional support from the US to be highly presumptuous. It makes me angry that they put us in such a bind.

Tactically, this was very well played by the activists, until they grabbed a couple guns and started shooting back. There is no way that Israel could win this encounter. If they attack the flotilla, they lose. If they let them through, they lose.

[Festivito]

82. Why does the US regret these deaths? Why are we responsible?

I have not read about this from the beginning, so this confuses me.

[Festivito]

96. Oh, I gather our support of Israel is so strong that we take responsibility for Israel's actions.

Yikes, that gets ugly.

[Barack_America]

99. Our support of Israel also involves supplying them a lot of weaponry.

Conveniently produced by US arms manufacturers.

So our involvement in these matters goes even deeper.

[Festivito]

120. Ah, yes, follow the money. Is Israel more important than the money or...

.. vice versa?

[Moochy]

107. Gee if Only DU'ers had posted threads about this outside the Dungeon!

This is for all of you who support the censorship here, thinking that it does DU any good.

All it does is keep the average DU'er in the dark about the most recent events that show American taxpayer's complicity through our unconditional support for right wing policies done IN OUR NAME, with our tacit approval.

[Festivito]

118. Yes, and we do need a better method, like a dungeon notification system.

For those times when things get heated.

I have tried visiting on occasion, but it's like wading through sludge.

[skepticscott]

184. It's just diplomatic double-talk

A way to neither openly support nor condemn Israel's action, since our government is too cowardly and too much the lapdog of the pro-Israel lobby to do otherwise...

[Festivito]

218. It's the word regret that makes it interesting diplomatic double-talk.

They carefully word these diplomatic double-talk items.

Regret.

That means that we had part in this action that we are admitting. What part is what I question.

[skepticscott]

226. Either that

or it's just a way to get yourself on record that you're not happy that people are dead, while not going so far as to point a finger at who is to blame.

[lib2DaBone]

85. The White House doesn't have to look too far to find the problem...

Rahm Emanuel is over there now getting his marching orders.

You remember Rahm Emanuel.. the White House Chief of Staff, a dual-citizen who chose to serve in the Israeli Army instead of the United States Army?
-----------------------------------------------

Emanuel was named to the Board of Directors of the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac) by President Bill Clinton in 2000. His position earned him at least $320,000, including later stock sales.<31><32> He was not assigned to any of the board's working committees, and the Board met no more than six times per year.<32>

During his time on the board, Freddie Mac was plagued with scandals involving campaign contributions and accounting irregularities.<32><33> The Obama Administration rejected a request under the Freedom of Information Act to review Freddie Mac board minutes and correspondence during Emanuel's time as a director.<32>

The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) later accused the board of having "failed in its duty to follow up on matters brought to its attention." Emanuel resigned from the board in 2001 when he ran for Congress.

[cali]

101. wtf??? Emanuel is pretty much despised in Israel and

he is not a dual citizen.

I don't have any use for Emanuel but I sure don't have any use for your anti-semitic crap. Your post is a fine example of why threads on Israel get moved to the I/P forum. And yes, accusations of dual loyalties or loyalty to Israel/Jews, is CLASSIC anti-semitic rhetoric.

Please cut it out.

[lib2DaBone]

162. I thought he had two passports. I'll see if I can find the link...

Not meant to be anti-semitic.. just factual.

I dont hate Israel.. I just think we should not give them Billions of dollars each year along with Nuclear Weapons. Charity starts at home and Nuclear Weapons are not good for young children and other living things.

[yellowwood]

97. Write to President Obama and your congresspersons

Don't just wring your hands over this injustice. Let your government know how you stand. They assume that we all buy the party line.

[Capitalocracy]

98. Oh, thank goodness, the White House is looking into it

They'll find out how many bullets the IDF fired so they can be promptly replaced.

One thing I found interesting about this story... they deported people from international waters?

[Uncle Joe]

100. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Barack_America.

[Moochy]

105. Kick And Rec the Only Acceptable Place For DU to discuss this Double Plus Bad Incident

[FightingBobsghost]

110. US Government actions

Why would the US government protest the attack on an Aid ship when it did nothing about the attack on the US Liberty?

[glitch]

111. So armed commandoes slaughtering unarmed aid activists gets called a "clash" now.

Got it.

[Ignis]

156. +1

[Pavulon]

204. Dont swallow the line too. Video shows armed guys attacking

this would prompt your local PD or Coast guard to respond with deadly force.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo

[Deadgnome]

213. But what would prompt a

local PD or the Coast Guard to board a vessel on international waters? Really, think about that for a second. If you were bringing supplies, and we are 99% certain they were nothing more than aid supplies on those ships, and you were heading to Gaza, a war-zone, a besieged state and people, a place where violence trumps most everything else. Do you really think you would sit on the deck of that ship and watch armed commandos repel aboard and invite them to fucking coffee and cake?

[Pavulon]

217. Running a naval blockade. Like the Soviet aid ships to cuba..

that would prompt this action. The armed response explains the shooting.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo

[glitch]

250. Not credible.

http://www.democracynow.org/ has more crediblity than edited IDF tapes, sorry.

[Douglas Carpenter]

113. kick and recommend!! VERY IMPORTANT!!!

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[varelse]

126. This is a very important piece of news - I hope the thread will stay right here

K&R

[Warren Stupidity]

128. WH will use Mr MaGoo Glasses for this looking into operation

[Poll_Blind]

133. LIVE emergency UN Security Council meeting right NOW (LINK)

HERE

Channel 1

[mike_c]

144. Israel will do anything to maintain its apartheid blockade of the Palestinian ghetto...

...it has created. The Israelis learned the lessons of Warsaw well.

[Politicub]

154. If Israel takes aggressive action, it's a-okay.

Seems to be the rule.

I can assure you that Israel regrets nothing and will continue doing whatever they please with the US's blessing.

[Ignis]

158. Al-Jazeera: Aid ship was fired upon AFTER raising white flag.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/201053133047995359.html

[Ignis]

159. Al-Jazeera's live coverage page:

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2010/05/31/live-coverage-israels-flotilla-raid

Great live updates here!

[Odin2005]

161. International waters? THE BASTARDS!!!

They REALLY did it this time! Does their arrogance know no bounds?

The Israeli government is slamming these people calling them "insane, violent activists". Never mind this was a highly promoted humanitarian mission in which there was NO way there could have been weapons being smuggled on board.

[tabasco]

170. Israel has become a terrorist state.

Supported by billions of US dollars.

[orbitalman]

174. I think I am beginning to 'deeply' regret Israel...

if there is no absolute justification for their actions. I don't want to hear about 'might-maybe.'

[The abyss]

177. I would hope the White House would look long and hard at this.

The US is complicit in this crime.

The US supplies the money that keeps Israel financially afloat.

US tax dollars at work.

It makes me feel so proud! :sarcasm:

[Catherina]

232. They looked. They're done. It's the activists fault

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4406230


“They were mobbed, they were clubbed, they were beaten, stabbed, there was even a report of gunfire. And our soldiers had to defend themselves.” Israeli PM, Netanyahu today

[Soylent Brice]

179. .

[Barackbaby]

191. Link to video of boarding

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo

[Pavulon]

199. That activists Peace pipe hurts. That alone would meet the ROE for USCG to fire on crew.

but I guess that video is fake right?

[Barackbaby]

206. not sure as of yet

but I'm sure the propaganda from both sides will take a bit of sorting out, before we know the whole truth. I see a lot of people in this thread have already made up their minds.

One of the groups behind the flotilla were mentioned by the CIA as a terrorist organization, in the past. 1996, if memory serves. Yep, 1996. supposed CIA doc at link.

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/hamas_e107.htm

[Deadgnome]

211. Yup,

Have already hear the spin on FOX radio all afternoon. They began their "newsflash" by saying that a convoy, that MIGHT have been a humanitarian aid mission was attacked. Might, hmmmmmmmmm. Though, there is no question there were many on board those ships that may have not so rosy ties and histories. But, when one terrorist organization (the CIA) calls another group a terrorist organization, where is the real problem?

[Pavulon]

220. Depends on whose interests you support. I tend to view events

in the light of how they help us interests. This little spat of a war is like India and Pakistan. Except not as big of an online following for that war here. Wonder why?

[Pavulon]

207. CBS led with this video. FYI . (NT)

[Barackbaby]

208. thanks

Here is a link to the laws regarding blockades, reported by IMRA (Independent Media Review and Analysis)

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=48222

[New Dawn]

209. K&R - we need to place sanctions on Israel immediately.

[Deadgnome]

210. I've read elsewhere

That the White House is "concerned."

Ah yes, concerned that an ally broke multiple international laws.

Concerned that said ally, committed an act of piracy/terrorism/whatever we call it these days, why don't we just get to the point and say State sponsored terrorism.

Concerned that Israel is, and has been breaking the law (see UN Human Rights Charter) with regards to their handling of their occupation of Gaza.

Concerned that innocent aid workers were killed (even if they fought back with sticks, shanks, and small-arms) during an illegal boarding. (You would too if you were walking into a warzone)

Concerned that the true colors of their allies, and consequently their own hides have been exposed.

Colors that refract through hues of Imperialistic reds, Terroristic blacks, and Humanity-less browns.

The White House says they are "concerned."

Sorry assholes, you used the wrong "C" word. You should have used the one a multitude of quote, "Democratic," and "Freedom" espousing nations have immediately planted in their lexicon.

And that is "CONDEMNED!"

[Pavulon]

219. Blah. It was a stunt and the other vessels cooperated. These guys wanted a brawl

and got one. Swinging a pipe at a person is lethal force, and was met with lethal force.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo

[Tripmann]

222. Swinging a pipe at somebody armed with an assault rifle commiting a crime

does not excuse them executing you.

We'll all remember this day, and we'll all remember your posts here on DU excusing this slaughter.

I hope you're proud.

[Barackbaby]

223. assault rifles?

from what I saw on CNN, they were paintball guns used for riot control (pepper spray pellets). It was after they were attacked, including stabbings, that they used their sidearms. But maybe CNN is being mislead?

[Abq_Sarah]

229. Armed with a

Paint ball rifle.

[cosmicone]

236. Yeah. 20 people died of paintball injuries n/t

[Hardrada]

237. You can't see the bigger picture can you?

Nor can you imagine how long our memories will be of your filthy, despicable propaganda.

[Name removed]

242. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ignis]

246. So now you're saying that the Turkish ship WANTED to be boarded?

What a crock. Your agenda is showing.

[Alamuti Lotus]

235. Rumour has it that the last surviving members of the Warren Commission has been convened

to investigate this matter.

They have presented (to me personally, for my approval before reaching a wider audience) what they refer to as The Magick Paintball Theory. Apparently, this whole thing is just a giant misunderstanding -- one Israeli paintball was fired not at the activists, but actually to protect them from a renegade seagull that was plotting to attack the entire flotilla. So it transpires that this brave IDF soldier was attempting to protect the convoy, but the renegade seagull was wearing special Anti-Paintball Feathers (designed by a notorious organization of anti-Semites) that deflected the paint-ball, striking dead several members of the aid convoy. Very tragic, but also just a huge misunderstanding that has since spun way, way out of control.
.
.
.
.
The sad thing is, what I wrote above is actually LESS ridiculous and absurd than the cover story put out by the IDF.

[waronbanks]

238. This may do it...

This may be the one. The final move by the Israeli/American war mongers that ignites the world against them. I can only hope so.

The world needs to say NO to rogue states working together to keep the world unstable and dangerous.

[Mari333]

245. yeah right. hahahaha. and Im the queen of england.

[alarimer]

249. So immediatedly cut all aid for the terrorist state, Israel, right now.

This was completely unconscionable and there needs to be sanctions to address this.