EXCLUSIVE: New Docs Show Truman Integrated Forces, Despite Military Objections

[kpete]

Source: Think Progress

EXCLUSIVE: New Docs Show Truman Integrated Forces, Despite Military Objections

Earlier this month, as part of the year-long Defense Department review of the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy, the Pentagon distributed surveys to some 400,000 servicemembers to gauge their reaction to repealing the policy. While LGBT groups have characterized the questionnaire — which asks the troops to speculate on the sexuality of fellow servicemembers — as “derogatory and insulting,” the Pentagon continues to insist that they need to know what the troops are thinking in order to properly repeal the ban. “How do we identify beforehand the problems, the issues, and the challenges that we’re going to face? The kind of training requirements we’re going to need, the kinds of changes in regulations, the impact on benefits — all of these things need to be addressed in advance…. That’s where we want to hear from you all,” Defense Secretary Robert Gates told troops stationed in South Korea.

Earlier this week, the Advocate’s Kerry Eleveld reported, contrary to prior reports, that this is not the first time the military had surveyed the troops. “Prior to President Truman’s 1948 executive order integrating the armed forces…our preliminary research shows that branches of the armed forces undertook a number of modestly sized surveys of the attitudes of enlisted and nonenlisted troops concerning racial issues, integration, and morale,” Eleveld quoted a Defense Department spokesperson as saying.

Following this lead, the Wonk Room traveled to the National Archives and recovered some of the surveys the military conducted about the troops’ attitudes towards black and Jewish people between 1942 and 1946. At the time, the military — along with the overwhelming majority of the country — opposed integrating black servicemembers into the forces and preferred a ’separate but equal’ approach that would have required the military to construct separate recreation spaces and facilities. The survey about Jews was no more promising, with 86% of the soldiers agreeing that “there is nothing good about Jews“:

DOCS:http://www.scribd.com/doc/34612500/Final-Race-Wonk-Room

Read more: http://thinkprogress.org/2010/07/22/dadt-docs/

[msongs]

1. Obama surveys, Truman acts - Obama is no Harry Truman nt

[BumRushDaShow]

3. Truman took 3 years to ACT. Truman was no savior. n/t

[roguevalley]

13. you don't know the times. he was a savior. I grew up with segregation,

sundown laws, 'n' words in normal conversation (not in my family) and worse. Lynching was normal. HST intregated the military because it was right and he did it with blitzkrieg speed over the objections of everyone. He deserves respect. I know. I was there.

[boppers]

21. "blitzkrieg speed"? 8 years?

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/desegregation/large/index.php?action=chronology

[roguevalley]

24. yeah. for the times, that was blitzkrieg speed. truly. Eight years now

seems like an infinity but then, it was lightning.

[Moosepoop]

8. "Obama surveys, Truman acts " -- guess you didn't read past the headline.

Here's some info from the article you didn't read:

Earlier this week, the Advocate’s Kerry Eleveld reported, contrary to prior reports, that this is not the first time the military had surveyed the troops. “Prior to President Truman’s 1948 executive order integrating the armed forces…our preliminary research shows that branches of the armed forces undertook a number of modestly sized surveys of the attitudes of enlisted and nonenlisted troops concerning racial issues, integration, and morale,” Eleveld quoted a Defense Department spokesperson as saying.

Following this lead, the Wonk Room traveled to the National Archives and recovered some of the surveys the military conducted about the troops’ attitudes towards black and Jewish people between 1942 and 1946. At the time, the military — along with the overwhelming majority of the country — opposed integrating black servicemembers into the forces and preferred a ’separate but equal’ approach that would have required the military to construct separate recreation spaces and facilities. The survey about Jews was no more promising, with 86% of the soldiers agreeing that “there is nothing good about Jews“:

So, Truman surveyed (just as Obama is doing now), and then he acted -- several years later (I don't think Obama will take as long).

[xchrom]

2. well - isn't that interesting. nt

[jgraz]

4. Yep, it's called "being a leader"

[old mark]

5. Truman's presidency has become underrated over the years - he gets a bad rap

for the atomic bomb, which is outside the scope of this thread, but he did a lot of good for race relations- he enabled minorities to find careers in the military and the federal government...FWIW, the Army in WWII had seperate black ground combat units, led mostly by white officers. Some served under Patton in his Third Army in their drive across Europe.
Not as well known are the black US ground combat units that served in WWI...They were highly decorated warriors, and were later denied any recognition...people refused to believe blacks could fight.

The integrated US Army served in the Korean War and every US war since then. The Navy was slower to integrate blacks-and Jews-but eventually they came around as well.


mark

[colsohlibgal]

6. How About HST!

Who knew indeed. No doubt he did have a spine and he was on the right side of this issue and had it come up I could see him in principle standing up for the LGBT folks. RIP Harry, if you are somehow looking down I'm sure you're horrified of the wingnuts and the slimy bought out democrats like Dodd.

[LanternWaste]

7. President Truman also signed Executive Order 9835 though...

President Truman also signed Executive Order 9835 though-- for no other reason than it was a politically sound decision. Two steps forward, three steps back for his administration too.

[defendandprotect]

10. What was 9835?

[LanternWaste]

11. The first established loyalty program in the US...

The first established loyalty program in the US, which allow political screenings and was the prelude in f minor to the McCarthy Witch Hunts.

Truman actually said in his autobiography that he was opposed to it-- on both legal and moral grounds, and the only reason he stepped over his own conscious was to preempt the GOP dominated congress from doing it first and thus gaining credit for it (it was a popular idea at the time as we're referring to the genesis of the Red Scare movement).

A law recognized by the sitting President as unethical by his own admission was prompted by him for no other reason than politics. The more things chance, the more things stay the same. :shrug:

[defendandprotect]

18. I do recall that the political side of my family was quietly disgusted with him --

if not seething as I recall it --

I think since he was a Democrat much he did wasn't as "worried" over at that time --

though I'm not really sure . . . ??????

Cold War was his -- relationship with John McCloy way out there --

Taft-Hartley was his, right?

I do recall the horror of the Rosenbergs -- but not sure if that began under Truman?

And, a bit of the McCarthy business -- which at some point was Ike -- but at the time I didn't

really understand it.

I think many Americans were again asleep -- though many tried to wake them up!!

And found only disappointment --

Again, right wing FEAR based garbage --


Thank you for the response -- I could have googled it -- but wanted to know how you were

looking at it --

:)

[defendandprotect]

9. K&R --

Unfortunately, he was also brought in to replace Henry Wallace --

who left office 4 months before FDR died --

What pressures on FDR moved him to do this, I don't know --

but our futures would have been quite different had Henry Wallace been VP and succeeded FDR.

and Ole Harry did drop the atomic bombs on Japanese civilians -- which many

military -- including Ike -- and others were against --

Truman was sadly very close to John McCloy --

[roguevalley]

14. HST headed a committee that saved this country zillions of dollars

from war profiteers and Halliburton type bullshit. He was impeccably honest and no one's fool and that is why he was chosen. I am really pissed over the bashing of this man. He was the last dem president with a spine.

[defendandprotect]

16. Truman wasn't perfect by any means . . .

from dropping atomic weapons on civilians to Taft-Hartley --

He was moving the party to the right -- no doubt about it --

All seems very liberal right now, of course --

Desegregating the military was terrific --

Bear in mind how he fits into the times --

And -- no one is "bashing" Truman -- we are discussing his policies --

no one has a personal dilike for him -- we either admire or don't admire the things

he did.

And -- this is a debating board -- you can expect to hear things you don't like --

and expect that you will be saying things that others don't like. That's free speech.

[mbperrin]

22. He was the last President to leave office not a millionaire.

He lived on his WWI pension.

[defendandprotect]

25. It was harder to hide then . . .

nor is anyone suggesting that he was a thief . . . as far as I can see???

[roguevalley]

23. and you can also hear the same too. free speech works both ways.

I just agree that on my Harry, we will not agree on much but that's okay with me. this isn't a contest. I am a FDR dem of the old school.

[defendandprotect]

26. Evidently you didn't notice that's EXACTLY what I said to you . . .

And -- this is a debating board -- you can expect to hear things you don't like --

and expect that you will be saying things that others don't like. That's free speech.



Guess everyone has some personal attachment to public figures --

I've had some as well -- just remember they are human -- and they are politicians!

LOVED FDR . . . .

only a few things I didn't like --


:evilgrin:

:)

[Lightning Count]

12. Was this before or after he dropped the first atomic weapons on two civilian targets?

Yawn.

[roguevalley]

15. yawn back atcha.

[defendandprotect]

17. Atomic weapons are a "yawn" . . . ???

Wow -- guess "civilians" brings . . . two "yawns" -- ???

:eyes:

[saigon68]

19. He saved my father a#$#@^%$e

[Unvanguard]

20. Truman did not need Congressional approval. Obama does.

And securing the last few votes in the Senate needed military approval, or at least neutrality.

Obviously the "review" is ludicrous and offensively homophobic, not remotely necessary in objective terms, but it's also the price the military asked for. It's a rather bitter pill to swallow, and there's no reason for anyone to be happy about it, but if it paves the way for DADT repeal--the "if" is my worry--the greater part of the battle will have been won.

[defendandprotect]

27. Presume he could suspend it . . . send it to the Supreme Court . . . ???

Even Congress can't make unConstitutional laws --

Don't recall on this -- did the Supremes ever rule on it?

Not that what the 5 do is anything but rubber stamping criminal activity - !!

[Unvanguard]

28. Arguably he can suspend discharges. It's disputed.

I don't know enough to say who's right.

The Supreme Court hasn't ruled on it, and Obama can't send it to the Supreme Court; only private litigation can do that, and that will take a long time. The repeal compromise that will soon become law will probably end DADT faster than a court challenge now would.