Fareed Zakaria Returns Anti-Defamation League Award Over Ground Zero Mosque

[onehandle]

Source: Huffington Post

Newsweek writer and CNN host Fareed Zakaria has returned an award he received in 2005 from the Anti-Defamation League over the Jewish group's opposition towards the Ground Zero mosque.

"Five years ago, the ADL honored me with its Hubert H. Humphrey First Amendment Freedoms Prize," Zakaria writes in next week's Newsweek. "I was thrilled to get the award from an organization that I had long admired. But I cannot in good conscience keep it anymore. I have returned both the handsome plaque and the $10,000 honorarium that came with it. I urge the ADL to reverse its decision. Admitting an error is a small price to pay to regain a reputation."

In the column, Zakaria argues in favor of building the Ground Zero mosque, writing:

'If there is going to be a reformist movement in Islam, it is going to emerge from places like the proposed institute. We should be encouraging groups like the one behind this project, not demonizing them. Were this mosque being built in a foreign city, chances are that the U.S. government would be funding it.'

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/06/fareed-zakaria-returns-an_n_674099.html

---

On edit... STOP CALLING IT 'Ground Zero Mosque!'

[Atticus]

1. Is that classy, or what? nt

[Oerdin]

77. Or what.

Because it sure wasn't classy given the context of what the ADL said. The guy is totally over reacting and not acting classy.

[MrModerate]

93. Disagree. "Some people will be upset . . ."

Translates to "some people still blame Islam itself for 9/11 -- and we should cater to them rather than to religious freedom."

Which places the ADL firmly in the wrong and Zakaria firmly among the classy.

[Atticus]

100. IMHO, it is the ADL which has over-reacted. nt.

[ooglymoogly]

82. Fareed Zakaria is one class act indeed, far above the dumb show and noise that is CNN. nt

[Salander]

131. I have a lot more respect for him now.

I had always thought he was more a man of media than of conviction. I have to rethink that now.

[Make7]

2. Nice! ( n/t )

[Posteritatis]

3. Excellent! (nt)

[Arctic Dave]

4. Hey Obama, see how that works.

A Nobel Prize should be for someone who actually earns one.

[Stellar]

5. That's not the first time that has happened!

Maybe the President will wait five years or after his second term and then give it back. :)

[cheapdate]

24. Cheap shot and a failed analogy.

The Nobel Foundation determines who earns their award, as I'm sure you well know. And if anything, it's the Nobel Foundation who would ask for their award back for the analogy to work.

[No Elephants]

110. The analogy fails, but not for the reason you cite.

The ADL never asked Zakaria to return his award, so your claim about why the analogy fails does not work, either.

Zakaria is voluntarily returning the award, not because he feels he did not earn it, but because he feels the ADL has befouled itself. So, unless someone is claiming the Nobel Committee has befouled itself and THAT is why Obama should return his Nobel Prize, the analogy doesn't work.

As to whether Obama had "earned" a Peace Prize, a Nobel official alluded to that when questioned about Obama's award. The official mentioned that the Committee sometimes awards the prize hoping to inspire future behavior.

Obama also spoke to the issue when he learned of the prize, again in his acceptance speech and, implicitly, by giving away the prize.

[cheapdate]

128. I realized that my alternate analogy was also a fail

In my alternate analogy, I aligned in proper order the sinner/redeemer identities, consequently inverting the giver/receiver roles, which, to my mind, were less important than the sinner/redeemer identities and therefore an improvement over the original analogy in one respect. Admittedly, this did sacrifice a certain amount of logic.

[DailyGrind51]

35. If only Fareed had to worry about re-election!

It is really easy to make independent gestures when you are affluent and de facto "self-employed"! Obama has both his and his Party's re-election to worry about.

[w4rma]

90. He does have to be concerned with his ratings. (nt)

[No Elephants]

112. Zakaria is very dependent upon popular opinion in everything he does.

Articles, books, TV.

[Quantess]

65. Thread hijack.

[Jefferson23]

6. Good for him! n/t

[Frank Booth]

7. Guts.

Apparently, Fareed Zakaria's one of the few brave prominent media or political figures around anymore.

[JerseygirlCT]

8. Good for him! nt

[deconstruct911]

9. more credit to his high character & integrity

bilderberg group/trilateral commission/ CFR

any pattern yet?

[Ken Burch]

10. For once, Fareed shows some stones!

n/t.

[EFerrari]

15. I know. Shocking. nt

[No Elephants]

113. Because people who have no testicles have no principles? Or abandon them?

I wonder how much more men would talk about their organs if theirs could do what women's reproductive organs do. Repair defective sperm, grow a human being, produce food.

[DonCoquixote]

11. Please take note

The next time the teabaggers bleat their talking point about how "no one stands up to Al Qaida", we can show this fellow as a prime example of how they are wrong.

Here's a riddle, what do the JDL and Al-Qaida have in common?:
Answer: a LOT, especially the willingness to use scripture to get their own way, to hell with whoever gets hurt!

[aquart]

14. I thought this award was from the ADL.

You confused the Anti-Defamation League with AL QAIDA? Because objecting to a mosque on the site of a massacre by a group of Muslims is the same as murdering thousands of people?

Now there's a real false equivalence.

[Turborama]

31. It isn't "a mosque on the site of a massacre by a group of Muslims"

I've heard that exact phrase being used ad nauseum on Faux news.

It's a Muslim community center with a prayer room that is located two blocks away from where the Twin Towers once stood.

[LostinVA]

34. It's a sacred site because a Burlington Coat Factory used to be in the building

Or something like that.

[Chulanowa]

32. They make a great team

Al-qaeda recruits from the ranks of dissatisfied, angry muslims who feel isolated and adhere to a fundamentalist streak of the faith. The ADL alienates and denigrates those Muslims attempting community outreach and integration.

Thank you by the way, for once again demonstrating the sterling quality of DU's moderation standards. Islamophobia clearly has a home here.

[sasquuatch55]

53. Indeed; but don't but don't say anything negative as far as Isreal is concerned.

It will get yanked in a heartbeat!

[TroglodyteScholar]

56. ...

:thumbsdown:

If there was a smiley for pinching your own nose, that one would be appropriate here as well.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

46. "Why should a potential base of operations be allowed nearby"

How is a Sufi-influenced community center a "potential base of operations"? Should the long-established Mosque that is about four blocks away be dismantled? Should anyone who is Islamic not eb allowed within a certain radius of Ground Zero? how about Arabs who are Christian?

What an insulting, fear-mongering post.

[TroglodyteScholar]

57. +1

It amazes me how many people at DU are perfectly happy to form their views based on xenophobic Fox News talking points.

[Hannah Bell]

66. +1

[Ignis]

92. You know those dangerous Sufis!

Who knows what they're really plotting, with their love-based poetry and that incessant spinning!

:rofl:

[LostinVA]

96. Whirling Dervishes are WMD

Or so They say.

[Ignis]

103. Whirling Muslim Dervishes!

:scared: We found the WMD! :scared:

[LostinVA]

107. Imagine what a platoon of them will do at Macy's during Xmas

:scared:

[Ignis]

122. Or worse, at a Burlington Coat Factory during Hanukkah!

Why do they hate us for our winterwear?

[LostinVA]

125. Discount outerwear is against the Koran

Or so I've heard.

[Salander]

132. Campaign idea for Newt: propose a Constitutional ammendment

that no mosque can be built within a one mile radius of any National Monument. SCOTUS would probably accept it as constitutional in that is promotes the idea of separation of church and state-- literally.

[LostinVA]

52. "...to see a monument to white Aryan resistance built in front of a former concentratation camp"

And, what does that have to do with an Islamic Community Center, advocated by SUFIS, blocks away from Ground Zero?

[savalez]

55. So you're blaming ALL Muslims for the attack? That's a stretch.

[Chulanowa]

63. Then get Christian churches the fuck off the continent

[frylock]

67. this issue has really managed to bring out the worst in some people..

why should a potential base of operations be allowed nearby?! just wow.

[No Elephants]

116. Why should a potential base of operations be allowed far away, for that matter?

Wipe all mosques, Muslim community centers and all other Muslim gathering places from the planet!

Oh, wait. I forgot I'm not a bigot. Never mind.

(not directed at frylock, but at "name removed.")

[1monster]

70. There were (non-radical) Muslims who worked in the WTC who were also killed

in the 9/11 attack. Would you say that the Unitarian belief system was equal to a Pat Robertson/Oral Roberts/Jerry Falwell belief system or maybe that Kansas sect that believes that God hates us all? Both in teachings and actions?

I wouldn't.

And yet both are based on the Judeo-Christian tradition.

In Islam, just as in Christianity, there are many different sects and many different beliefs on how to deal with the world and those not of their beliefs. I'd venture to guess that the grand majority of Muslims in this country were appalled by the actions on 9/11. Most are American citizens or people who have come here to become American citizens and are not looking to destroy the United States...

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

12. I kept asking why the ADL has been shockingly quiet on all the disgusting references to Holocaust

imagery in the Tea Party. Why hasn't the ADL spoken out against the horrible exploitation of Nazi-racist symbolism and cheapening the terrible tragedy of the Holocaust?

Now I know why. They apparently have sold out to the teabaggers.

Disgusting!! :puke::puke:

[oberliner]

13. ADL: Anti-government hostility sweeping U.S.

WASHINGTON (JTA) -- A "current of anti-government hostility" has swept across the United States in the year since Barack Obama was elected president, a new Anti-Defamation League report found.

The report examines mainstream and more fringe expressions of such anger, which it says is characterized by a "shared belief that Obama and his administration actually pose a threat to the future of the United States."

"Some of these assertions are motivated by prejudice, but more common is an intense strain of anti-government distrust and anger colored by a streak of paranoia and belief in conspiracies," states the document, titled "Rage Grows in America: Anti-Government Conspiracies."

Among the sources and examples of that anger the report explores are the "tea parties," the "Birther" movement and the disruptions of congressional town hall meetings across the country.

The report also charges that some in the mainstream media have played a role in promoting anti-government anger, specifically singling out Glenn Beck of Fox News as a "fearmonger-in-chief" for making comparisons between Obama and Adolf Hitler.

http://jta.org/news/article/2009/11/17/1009250/adl-report-says-wave-of-anti-government-hostility-sweeping-country

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

18. Is that all? I'm asking why the ADL hasn't specifically spoken out against the anti-Semitic,

Nazi and disgusting holocaust imagery most displayed in these Tea Party events.

I find it baffling that they join the teabaggers, hand in hand, to speak out against the Mosque. Again, where are they, and why won't they speak out vociferously against the hate-filled rhetoric of the tea party itself? The racism in the tea party?

[savalez]

72. Exactly!

[Chulanowa]

105. Because Foxman's ADL is a cretinous, bigoted organization

Under his directorship, the organization has assailed the civil liberties of Muslims, displayed regular antiziganism, and has repeatedly denied the genocide of Armenians during WW1.

I'd like to think that if they ditched the dumbfuck at the helm, they could steer back on course.

[LostinVA]

108. I hadn't heard that about the Armenians

WHY would they say that??? That was also a horrible genocide.

[Chulanowa]

129. I'm sure many will take it wrong...

But it's because Armenians weren't Jews. Same reasons someone like Elie Weisal would deny recognition of the Porjamos (the Roma and Sinti's version of the Shoah). These bigoted twats honestly think that acknowledging another people's loss and suffering would detract from their own. It's bizarre and helps no one, but racists are racists and are irrational the world over, and they come in all shapes and sizes.

Further with regard to the Armenian genocide, up until June of this year, Israel officially considered it a non-event, a fabrication. This is because Turkey was an ally for the Israelis, and it was good politics to deny the attempted extermination of an entire people at Turkish hands. Now that Israel's pissed at Turkey, they suddenly decided that, oh! it was a genocide, after all! Right decision, wrong reason, but better late than never.

[LostinVA]

130. Thanks for the info -- interesting

[oberliner]

33. s/d

[Salander]

134. . . . because the Tea Baggers are not a threat to Israel.

[yellowwood]

16. This is Big!

You don't pull on Superman's cape...

[EFerrari]

19. You don't spit into the wind!

[Ken Burch]

22. You don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger...

And you don't mess around with...Fareed?

[EFerrari]

25. LOL

[GETPLANING]

17. I have always like Fareed

He is the best journalist (one of the few actual journalists) at CNN.

[Jennicut]

23. Yup, one of the few I bother watching. Good for him!

[No Elephants]

119. I admire him on this, but, in general, his politics are too PNACish for my taste.

No surprise that he was a Reaganite.

[BrklynLiberal]

20. Good for him!!!

and good for them......

Jewish vigil supporting Muslim cultural center in Lower Manhattan

by Rabbi Arthur Waskow

Yesterday The Shalom Center and other Jewish leaders from New York held a vigil at the site of the proposed Muslim cultural center and prayer space in Lower Manhattan, supporting the plan for Cordoba House there.

It was an extraordinary success, both in the moment and in media coverage. Prayer, song, and chants were interspersed with speeches for a gathering of about 50 people, well-covered by print and TV media. More than 180 newspapers have carried reports of the vigil, including full-page coverage in Metro and Newsday.

After a number of speakers from the Jewish community, Daisy Khan, cofounder of the Cordoba Initiative that is sponsoring and planning the cultural center, spoke with heartfelt thanks to those of us in the Jewish community who had been working in favor of Córdoba House and who had gathered on Park Place to welcome them.

Rabbi Ellen Lippman of Congregation Kolot Chayeinu in Brooklyn, co-chair of Rabbis for Human Rights/North America and one of the key organizers of the vigil, gave Daisy Kahn the traditional Jewish symbols of a housewarming: bread, salt, honey, and a candle.

We began with the chant, in Hebrew and English, that teaches: “Here I stand, and I take upon myself the commitment of the Creator: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself, your neighbor as yourself. Hareini m’kabeyl alai et mitzvat Ha-Borei: V’ahavta l’rayecha kamocha, l’rayecha kamocha. ’ ”

When I rose to speak, I explained that when I rise to read from the Torah my name is “Abraham Isaac Ishmael Ocean.” With that as my name, I find my own self torn apart and bloodied when there is bloodshed between the children of Sarah through Isaac and the children of Hagar through Ishmael—between the different families of Abraham. And when the families of Hagar and Sarah come together in peace, only then can I feel my own self united and whole.

I was wearing a tallit on which are embroidered the Dome of the Rock and the Western Wall. And between them is embroidered a rock—the rock upon which in the Jewish tradition Abraham bound Isaac, the same rock upon which in Muslim tradition Mohammed—peace be upon him—began his mystical ascent to Heaven. This tallit of mine symbolizes the sacred companionship between Judaism and Islam, as does my name.

For years, I explained, I have worked with and alongside Imam Rauf and Daisy Khan for peace in the world and dialogue between our traditions. I am not alone in knowing who they are: the New York Jewish Community Relations Council and the Jewish Council on Public Affairs have publicly affirmed that these leaders of the Córdoba initiative have for years worked with the Jewish community in fruitful ways.

So all the questions that have been raised about them:—those truly curious and those simply nasty—could have been answered simply by asking leaders of the Jewish community.

I said that it was all the more distressing that the Anti-Defamation League had ignored these close relationships in New York City and made a national tumult about the placement of a Muslim cultural Center in Lower Manhattan.

I described a program on MSNBC the day before, in which I was interviewed along with a new opponent of Córdoba House —representing a right-wing Christian fundamentalist legal organization.. He compared the building of Cordoba House in Lower Manhattan to building a monument to Japanese kamikaze pilots in Pearl Harbor. As I said during the interview and said again, this comparison was utterly disgusting. The Córdoba initiative brings exactly the opposite of terrorism or kamikaze pilots to the world. It represents the deep truths of Islam—the search for peace, the practice of compassion, the concern for profound dialogue.

I said that I could not imagine anyone from the Anti-Defamation League having made such a disgusting comment. But what they did say opened the door to this kind of vile attack on Islam.

That door must be closed and instead we must open the door to deeper communication between us—not only the families of Abraham but also the other religious and spiritual families of humankind—Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and all the others.

In doing this, I said, we should not pretend that there are no bloody streaks in all these traditions. In Judaism and in all the others, there are strands of blood in the past and the present of our communities. Rather than pretend they do not exist, we must act to shape our futures beyond the strands of blood. Cordoba House will be exactly such a way to shape the future of Islam and all the other communities that live together in the world.

We also heard from Rabbi Marcus Burstein on behalf of the Union for Reform Judaism, which had just announced its support for Cordoba House, and from , Rabbi Richard Jacobs from Westchester Reform Temple, who said some members of his congregation had been victims of the 9/11 attacks.
Rabbi Jeff Marker has posted three photos he took at the vigil. See them here.

He writes: “Here is a view down Park Place. The site of the Islamic Center is on the right, where there is a crowd on the sidewalk. Note the building on the left, between the Center and the WTC site. It is taller than the proposed center, so how would the Center be some kind of “triumphal” monument overlooking the 9/11 site?”

I would say there was one sour note at the vigil. Two people showed up with signs expressing bitter anger at the Anti-Defamation League and at others who have opposed the building of Córdoba House. We had said the vigil was not a political rally, and asked people not to bring such signs. I asked the sign-carriers to withdraw to a place of their own where they could express their own opinions without violating the spirit of our vigil. But they would not. So be it.

As I mentioned above, the news coverage by a wide variety of media has been extraordinary. The Associated Press and CNN and nine other news organizations took notes, photos, and videos. Even after the vigil ended, Rabbi Lippmann and I were surrounded by reporters hungry for interviews. Earlier in the week, I was interviewed by CNN and then by MSNBC. CNN invited me to do an Op/Ed essay for their “My Take’ column. (Click here for my essay.)I have been invited by ABC News to do an interview with them this Sunday. And newspaper stories, photographs, and video are appearing all over America and beyond.

I have been pleased that this week was also the one in which a Federal district court held that the right of same-sex couples to marry—which for the past generation The Shalom Center has affirmed is intended by God— is guaranteed by the Constitution. So it has been a week of steps forward in the seeking of peace, harmony, in God’s world.

May the coming Shabbat be one of shalom, and the coming week make real the sacred month that for Muslims is Ramadan, a month of prayer and sacred fasting to deepen relationship with God; and for Jews is Elul, a month of daily hearing of the shofar (ram’s horn) calling us, “Sleepers, Awake!” to sacred study and self-examination toward a deeper relationship with God.

Blessings of shalom, salaam, shantih, peace -
Arthur


http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/jewish_vigil_supporting_muslim_cultural_center_in_lower_manhattan/0018161

[Ken Burch]

21. Rabbi Waskow RRAAAWWKKKKKKS!

(as someone else might say, but not about the rabbi.)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

30. LOL

:thumbsup:

[boppers]

27. Thank you for posting that.

Powerful, stunning, and true to life on the ground, rather than the hot-air of the media.

[1monster]

73. This needs its own thread...

[GoddessOfGuinness]

26. Beautifully said!

[laughingliberal]

28. K & R nt

[SoapBox]

29. Good for him...and,

"On edit... STOP CALLING IT 'Ground Zero Mosque!'"

Thank you!

This is making me nuts...it's over 2 blocks away. The MobMentalMedia
makes it sound as if it is being built right, dead center, over "Ground Zero".

It is not.

[Prometheus Bound]

36. Impressive.

Just common sense, but nonetheless impressive in the context.

[66 dmhlt]

37. Fareed - the only reason I kept Newsweek so long

They started changing to a Talibangelical christianist leaning. The final straw was that screed "Is Obama the Anti-Christ"

http://www.newsweek.com/2008/11/15/is-obama-the-antichrist.html

[ironrooster]

38. The ADL doesn't actually desire a "reformist movement"

in Islam - they need a boogeyman. I would also hazard a guess that a true global reformist movement for Islam would be
the worst thing possible for Israel. Anybody ever see the adventures of Baron Von Munchausen?

[dadzilla]

39. Not to pile in:

But kuddos for Fareed Zakaria to take a tough stance. The ADL has gotten it wrong here and when voices of prominence say it, it matters.

[JVS]

40. Nice, but one small quible from me.

I wouldn't have returned the $10K. I'd have donated to the money to the organization that they opposed.

[TroglodyteScholar]

59. And while maybe that action would be morally justifiable...

...it would make an otherwise classy act into an outright attack. I'm glad Zakaria took the high road.

[JVS]

62. Donating 10K to the community center is hardly an attack, let alone an outright attack on the ADL

[TroglodyteScholar]

84. You have your opinion...

...and others have theirs.

[JVS]

87. You make your assertion that doing so would be an attack, yet offer no explanation of how.

[No Elephants]

117. Returning the award WAS an outright attack on the ADL for opposing the Muslim Center.

AND attacking the ADL for that reason was also the high road.

[Salander]

133. I agree!

[Liberty Belle]

41. I interviewed a man tortured in Saddam's secret police prison:

He may be the only person ever to escape (after they hospitalized him for injuries and he climbed out a bathroom window). His view was that putting a mosque in the same area as where 3,000 people were killed by Islamic terrorists would be wrong, a slap in the face to survivors and families. He was raised Muslim, in Iraq, though later converted to another religion. He brought the mosque subject up, as it wasn't on my list of questions. I thought it was an interesting perspective from someone I might have thought would take a different point of view.

[LostinVA]

47. What does Sadam Hussein have to do with 9/11?

[Enrique]

48. he grew up in a police state

I think many people around the world who live in less free countries than the U.S. probably would not understand why the mosque is being allowed to be built. Many people even in this country don't understand it, I think it's a good lesson to all these people what America stands for.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

50. Hell, it took me years to accept that allowing neo-nazis to hold parades is OK.

Until I finally grasped (and learned to highly respect) the level of commitment to freedom of speech that you* have.

_{* Well, most of you.}

[rosesaylavee]

60. the Mosque is NOT being built... it's going into an existing building 2 blocks away

and faces away from where the towers stood.

[LostinVA]

64. In the old Burlington Coat Factory store site

The Scared Site of Discounted Namebrands. They are like Marshall's.

[Ken Burch]

97. And it isn't a MOSQUE

It's a community center. An Islamic Community Center is to a mosque as the YMHA is to a synagogue.

[rosesaylavee]

101. That is somewhat correct

I do think that religious cermonies or prayers will occur on site? So a little more than a YMCA. Or if you did mean a YMHA I am not familiar with that acronym.

[Ken Burch]

102. YMHA-Young Men's Hebrew Association.

Now known as the Jewish Community Center

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Community_Center

[rosesaylavee]

111. Thank you!

I didn't know that...

[Ken Burch]

124. I only remembered it myself because there was a reference to it, years ago

in the sitcom "Bridget Loves Bernie".

[rhett o rick]

74. I disagree with him. To deny this would be a slap in the face of millions of Americans that

believe in freedom.

[daleo]

78. So anyone who agrees with him doesn't believe in freedom?

That's the implication I get from your statement.

[Lord Magus]

98. Anyone who thinks the Cordoba House should be banned...

...doesn't believe in freedom. At least not in freedom of religion.

[rhett o rick]

115. I am referring to the "man tortured in Saddam's prison" that doesnt want to "allow"

the community center at that location. I definitely believe that those that agree with this man are not for freedom. How do you feel?

[daleo]

123. Same way as you

I see your point now. I misunderstood who your reference to "him" actually referred to. Sometimes threads get hard to follow that way.

[rhett o rick]

126. I need to be more careful with my wording. nm

[daleo]

127. And me with my reading. n/t

[Bucky]

81. Interesting point. Of course as someone who's an ex-Muslim...

I doubt he's exactly the target audience for this.

PS, it's not really a mosque. It's a community center that happens to have a prayer facility on-site. It's as mosque in the same way a hospital chapel is a cathedral.

[sabrina 1]

83. Was he same 'Iraqi citizen' who was interviewed on Fox who

was tortured by Saddam and who supported the War on Iraq 'because of 9/11'?

I always felt sorry for the way they used that man. He clearly had a right to hate his government. But to lead him to believe, assuming he did, that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 and then mis-use his own personal reasons for wanting to see Saddam toppled, was probably among the worst and lowest attempts to manipulate the American people coming from Fox.

Added to the fact that Saddam was installed by the CIA and was one of Reagan's favorite 'strongmen' Iraqis who understood how Saddam came about, would take a completely different view of having their country blamed for something they had nothing to do with.

There was no Al Queda in Iraq and extremists such as Osama Bin Ladin viewed Saddam Hussein as a traitor, since his government was a secular, not an Islamic, government, mostly supported by the West.

[JI7]

91. Saddam and Iraq have nothing to do with 9/11, you do know Al Qaeda and Saddam were enemies ?

nobody wanted to attack IRaq more than Bush and bin LAden

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chulanowa]

106. He's free to his opinion, but his opinion, like most, does not count for shit.

I knew a Vietnam vet. Lost his leg below the knee, has a prostheses. he said we should round up all the "gooks" and toss them into the pacific. If they swim back to Asia, good, if they sink, good. He's free to his opinion as well, which also includes using hte bible as the basis for or legal codes.

Doesn't make his opinion valid. Nor does it give me any authority if I were to defend those opinions of his.

[No Elephants]

118. Which proves only that people tortured by Saddam can be as full of crap as anyone else.

"later converted to 'another' religion."

[orbitalman]

43. Fareed: the 1 and only program I will make a point to listen to on CNN.

I think he is what true professional journalism is all about.

[Lord Magus]

99. He's also the only reason I ever pick up a Newsweek. (nt)

[sam sarrha]

44. how and what is to be fixed in Islam and by Whom. this is hollow dialog till we define specifics..

is there any common ground established with the moderates, what defines a Moderate, do they black out portions of the Koran.. Hiddah, Sunnah and Sira. how will this spread to the Tribal areas after it's achieved.

who are the Non-Muslims involved in helping to moderate Islam, are they well Versed in Islam, or are they going to be considered carpet baggers or Crusaders..this is a delicate situation. will the non-Muslim moderators be certified somehow to prevent insulting Islam and/or Muslims.

..here is a little test, what event does the first day if their Calendar Signify..?

1..what happened on day 1 of AH:..After Hijra, what event is so significant that they created a new calendar to Convey it's importance. ...we might as well start from the beginning of Abrogation 622..

2. what is Abrogation, and how does one determine what is Abrogated.? this is perhaps the most significant element in the subject of what creates a Muslim moderate vs an extremist..

Westerners seem satisfied to be educated primarily by Sound Bytes.. always ask where they got their info in Islam, what books, websites.. i was a Research Biologist back in the days of test tubes. then you had to do the work, search out the variables, acquire the Data, "Evaluate" the information.. "Establish" a "conclusion" or an "Inference", and know the difference. this involves looking at both sides of a subject. this is made easier with the Internet and youtube, not everything on youtube is adolescent prattle. discrimination is acquired relative to the amount of information acquired on ...BOTH SIDES OF A SUBJECT..

for instance.. there are plenty of Imams preaching on youtube.. but there are also plenty of Apostates -Def=One who has abandoned one's religious faith--- ..telling their stories too..
if one does not make the effort to study both sides one just becomes an Apologist. harping against acquiring an 'Over View' of a subject is Censorship which is simply fear the truth will be discovered.

how many people really know what Sharia law is.. it is going hand in glove with Islam more and more, in most of the rest of the world Islam is considered more of a Political and Legal System.. so how does that work, is Sharia a moderate system of law.? if not can it be moderated, there are different forms. it dictates every aspect of a persons life every minute down to the nano second, they actually have a Morality Police Force the cruses the streets totally unregulated, .. an Oligarchy has evolved around it everywhere it exists.. how can that be moderated..?

what if what "WE" want to change is counter to what Muhammad Reveled from Allah..? that would be like telling the Jews not to listen to what Moses or Abraham said.. they aren't going to black out Scriptures on the Torah with a felt tip marker to make us happy. that is why i tried to explain the need to know what we are talking about and where those ideas came from.. but most Americans are totally ignorant of the subject.

this subject can get so convoluted so fast it will make you dizzy. i dont think 1 in 1000 Americans will bother to read a book on Islam.. it will take about 5-6-8 books before one acquires a decent overview of Islam. so probably only 1 in 10,000 will be able to hold an intelligent conversation on the subject. but every has a band wagon to ride on.


==========
a note on mind control
the Rush Limbaughs and the Tea Party Oligarchs keep their people high on adrenaline and pissed off all the time, they are in no condition to read a book, or think rationally, they lock them in an Apriori Loop* so whatever question they are asked they come to the same conclusion. ..*the Conclusion come first, the Premise follows
.. everything not on their acceptable list is pre-Ordained as some Phobia or Liberal slime. eerily similar to how Jihadis think..!
my brother is one of them, he's 64 very well educated retired executive professional, lost entire $680,000 retirement to Bu$h43 disaster.. his descent into darkness has been swift, he is not likely to return.. he sends me all the propaganda they send him.. the Nazi's were not as good at mind control as the Tea Part Oligarchs.. the Tea Party is a dangerous machine of the American Oligarchy .. http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html . top richest 1% own ~43% of Americas wealth, bottom 80% has 7% tea party was created to protest Taxes, by the 12th richest man in America who only pays those taxes, bill gates pays the taxes of one making $80,000 a year. sorry for the diversion..
=========

Do the Muslims want us to "Fix" Islam for them? well, if someone wanted me to fix anything for billions of dollars i'd say i could.

what i mean is.. Islam has no Central Authority.. but there is Prophesy by Muhammad that there will be in the Hiddah, ...the Hiddah is collections of what people in the presence of Muhammad said about him... when he was explaining the final Caliphate, it states that Dar el Islam will be achieved, that is the "World of Peace", Islamisation of the entire world.
when that happens all the different types of Islam will begin to war upon each other till the purist form of Islam wins and begins a Caliphate, a central leader, he was then asked which form of Islam would win.. he replied.."Mine". he continues to elaborate that the Caliphate will be elected by a council of Imams, or appointed by the current Caliphate as he leaves, or the Caliphate can be taken by anyone with the ability to take the chair by force.

when a thing is fractured into pieces, which piece is the thing.. apparently the piece that gets all the money thrown to it because they say they can put the rest together.. are we really looking at the big picture?.. i'm not saying it can't be done.. it depends on who is doing it, why, and how many generations it will take, at what cost. first we must consider if we can fix all the Jews.. or all the Christians, or the Buddhists. if the answer is no.. then the evidence is overwhelmingly against being able to fix Islam. what then.?

[1American]

45. Fareed Zakaria

Fareed Zakaria stands for what is great about America--defender of religious freedom. The conservative right-wing religious"family values" insurgence certainly don't do that unless it is for defense of their brand of Christianity.

[Paladin]

49. Classy, Principled Move. Nice Going, Mr. Zakaria. (n/t)

[LaStrega]

51. Good On You Fareed! k/r n/t

[Poll_Blind]

54. You can watch his statement here: (LINK)

HERE

Really well-spoken.

PB

[Odin2005]

58. Zakaria just gave them the smackdown.

[Douglas Carpenter]

61. that was truly the right way to send the right message against hatred and bigotry

[stray cat]

68. Would everyone here be in favor of building a church that was anti-abortion

in place of the clinic where the murdered doctor performed abortions if the church said they intended to be a voice of reason? I surely hope no one on DU would be so bigoted as to be against such a move. If so your tolerance is inconsistent and equally as bigoted as those you condemn

[LostinVA]

69. Gosh, yes, that is EXACTLY like an Islamic Community Center

Blocks away from Ground Zero, facing AWAY from the site, ORGANIZED BY SUFIS, located at the site of the old Burlington Coat Factory store.

You really never disappoint. I can make bank on you!


:thumbsup:

[EFerrari]

71. Your analogy is flawed because this center is not pro-terrorist. n/t

[No Elephants]

121. Your attempted analogy doesn't work at all.

this is not a place of worship being "built" "in place of" the World Trade Center. \

First, nothing is being "built" at all. They want to re-purpose an existing building formely occupied by a discount retailer that they own.

Second, it's not a mosque, but a community center where a variety of activities will occur, including swimming and prayer. As such, it will be more like a YMCA than a Christian church.

Third, it will not be in place of the world trade center, but simply in the same neighborhood--a neighborhood that includes many things, including a strip joint, a porn shop and an off track betting parlor.

Fourth, and most importantly, your example is of a Christian Church that (like many Christian churches) teaches that abortion is murder (which, of course, means that abortionists are murderers). A pro-Choice Christian Church is an exceptional and not representative of most.

Nothing in orthodox Islam teaches that working in the World Trade Center or in Lower Manhattan was is murdering. Hell, even al Q'aeeda never claimed that.

So, nothing about your analogy holds.

[rhett o rick]

75. Not prosecuting Cheney is more of a slap in the face of all American surcvivors of 911. nm

[Oerdin]

76. ADL is right.

The ADL didn't say not to build a Mosque but did say that if Zakaria really wanted to build better relations with Jews and Christians then he ought to respect the wishes of his neighbors and move the mosque a block or two away from the WTC site and out of the immediate blast area which was damaged in 9/11. Up until last year Zakaria said he wanted to build his mosque on 93rd st and then suddenly he got a bunch of money from some foreign source and insisted it had to be built as close as possible to the 9/11 attack site. No matter if you like the mosque or not we should all be able to agree that the ADL's suggestion was absolutely reasonable in the face of what Zakaria said he wanted to do.

[daleo]

79. The site is two blocks from the WTC site

According to everything that I have read. What's the right size for your proposed mosque exclusion zone? Four blocks? Six? A mile? Manhattan in general?

How long should it apply? A decade? A generation? A century?

What would be your criteria for this exclusion zone?

[Turborama]

85. "Zakaria said he wanted to build his mosque" LOL WUT?

It's not Zakaria's Mosque. In fact, it isn't even a Mosque. Read the full thread.

[oberliner]

89. Fareed Zakaria is a journalist/reporter

He is not at all involved in this project.

[Chulanowa]

104. No, the ADL is completely wrong

"Zakaria really wanted to build better relations with Jews and Christians then he ought to respect the wishes of his neighbors and move the mosque a block or two away from the WTC site"

It's not a mosque, and it's two blocks away from the site. By "respect the wishes of his neighbors," you and the ADL of course mean behave subserviently to their wishes. This will not build better relations; it will in fact worsen them, as the Jews and Christians (as you framed 'em) decide, "hey, we shoved these guys around once, let's do it some more!"

"Just a little" discrimination is still discrimination in full. "Only slight" violations of civil liberties is still a violation of civil liberties in full.

Hie your bigoted ass the fuck out of here.

[LostinVA]

109. And their neighbors are a porn shop, an OBT, a Starbucks...

[No Elephants]

114. And a strip joint. Hallowed ground.

[JI7]

135. hahaha, Zakaria has nothing to do with the building, he is a Journalist

[Bucky]

80. Technical question: if they do quit denouncing it, do they have to un-return his $10,000?

I mean, that's a lot of money. I'd hate to think his kids are going without braces over this.

[ooglymoogly]

86. KR for one of the very few truly honest journalists left on CNN, the propaganda network. nt

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeyondGeography]

95. Appropriate

The ADL have conducted themselves like a bunch of reactionary poseurs here.

[No Elephants]

120. Interesting:

"After the 9/11 attacks, in a famous Newsweek cover essay, "Why They Hate Us," Zakaria argued that Islamic extremism had its roots in the stagnation and dysfunctions of the Arab world. Decades of failure under tyrannical regimes, all claiming to be Western-style secular modernizers, had produced an opposition that was religious, violent, and increasingly globalized. Since the mosque was a place where people could gather and Islam an institution that was outside the reach of censorship, they both provided a context for the growth of the political opposition. Zakaria argued for an inter-generational effort to create more open and dynamic societies in Arab countries, and thereby helping Islam enter the modern world.<13>"

thttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fareed_Zakaria


No mention of our own policies as a reason "why they hate us?" Blaming Arabs as opposed to radical Islamists? (His father was a Muslim scholar in India.) He supported Bush's invasion of Iraq, too, though he later seemed to change his tune.

Kudos on this action, but Zakaria is a mixed bag.