House passes bill to help teachers, public workers

[ProSense]

Source: Associated Press

WASHINGTON – The House has passed a $26 billion jobs bill to protect 300,000 teachers and other nonfederal government workers from election-year layoffs.

House Democratic leaders summoned lawmakers back to Washington during their summer break to act on the measure, saying that Congress could not sit idle when thousands of kids were preparing to go back to schools with depleted teaching staffs.

The majority of Republicans voted against the bill, which now goes to President Barack Obama for his signature. Republicans said Democrats were handing a favor to their teacher union allies and that Congress should end its spending spree.

The bill is paid for mainly by closing a tax loophole used by multinational corporations and reducing food stamp benefits.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100810/ap_on_bi_ge/us_jobs_bill_15

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. Wait, I thought Obama and Democrats hated teachers now.

:sarcasm:

[Wednesdays]

4. Of course! Obama will veto this bill...

Just you wait.

[w4rma]

16. Obama pushed for the funds fof this bill to come from food stamp funding, rather than his "race to

the top" funds. Duncan is sitting on billions of dollars from that program to try to trick states into giving away their school systems to billionaires.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

24. Total horseshit.

The disinformation on Race to the Top is frankly astounding.

[nyy1998]

27. +1

[erodriguez]

37. Agreed

People actually think it is helping public education.

[w4rma]

57. The disinformation comes from you. I'm absolutely on target. Proof here.

Obey says Team Obama suggested cutting food stamps to save Race to the Top from cuts
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8772149

[fogonthelake]

43. yes, He was upset at Obey for that.

[dflprincess]

50. They decided they hate poor people more. n/t

[activa8tr]

2. Hooray for Nancy Pelosi and the Democratic House! Thank you!

We need to keep the House in the hands of the Democrats, and this is why.

[ceile]

3. Finally doing something...n/t

[villager]

5. ....while cutting food stamps, yes?

So malnourished kids will at least have more teachers?

Well, it's preferable to being malnourished and no teachers, I suppose...

A shame that "our side" always has to have a quid pro quo for these things, but for war, tax cuts for the rich, well... no "offsets..."

[jaxx]

10. So it isn't good enough?

Imagine that.

[villager]

14. So cutting food stamps to kids is fine with you?

Imagine that.

[jaxx]

17. Going after scammers isn't cutting kids food.

But thanks for playing.

[villager]

19. "Scammers" -- yes, eating is such a scam!

But thanks for the heartlessness.

not that it's, you know, a surprise or anything.

[jaxx]

20. I often wonder why people get off on spinning the facts into

the idea that it's all bad. Never has made any sense to me. But then, I'm a liberal and I like the truth.

[villager]

21. You're a "liberal" the way a beach ball is a "planet"

Although why you're spinning the facts remains a salient question.

[jaxx]

22. Uh this is the USA and I don't have to produce my liberal papers.

[villager]

23. Can't produce what you don't have!

:thumbsup:

[joeglow3]

52. Jesus, am I back in grade school?

[villager]

53. I don't know -- are hungry kids dismissed as "scammers" in grade schools?

Well these days, given budget cutting, they probably are....

[joeglow3]

55. I am referring to the give and take

"you stink"

"No, you do."

"Whatever. You are a jerk."

"I know you are but what and I."

"Shut up. My dad can beat up your dad."

[villager]

56. you should refer, instead, to the actual content of the conversation

...in which people who use food stamps are referred to as "scammers," which is more fitting of heartless rightwing snark, than a "democratic" discussion board.

Scarcely a "liberal" position -- or at least, it didn't used to be.

If we're selling out hungry kids, we're a few notches below the ethical standing of a schoolyard bully, I think -- or at best, on par.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

26. ...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Oh wait, you really don't realize that you're a) not the one who's "liberality" is in question and b) the one who's not even bothering to use facts in their spin.

[asdjrocky]

41. What scammers?

Which people that get food aid are scammers?

[Foo Fighter]

45. Every damn one of them.

OTOH, the Wall Street robber barons deserved every single penny of bailout money they got.

asdjrocky, pardon me for saying this but it looks like you need to get with the program.

[asdjrocky]

46. I'm trying, I really am.

So, Wall Street good? Poor people, bad?

How am I doing? :hi: I love deadpan by the way.

[Foo Fighter]

48. Now you're getting it.

Good to see you're coming around.

You're doing great. Just keep denigrating the poor while supporting the rich. The system will reward you for it eventually. At least, that's what they tell people.

Of course, that means you have to long enough to see the reward. Got health care?

Deadpan? What's this deadpan crap? Hey, I'm being totally serious. ;) :hi:

[dflprincess]

49. The kids whose moms are "welfare queens"

:sarcasm:

This is a move Reagan would approved of - the only thing that would have made it better is if they'd cut food stamps to pay for more war or tax bail outs for corporations.

I wonder if anyone has explained to these super brains playing 3D chess that malnutrition leads to higher medical costs?

[Frisbee]

6. I'm not so sure this is the ideal time...

to be reducing food stamp benefits though.

[Uben]

7. Just cutting the abuse

There are probably billions in fraudulent claims for food stamps. I know a gal that makes $60K/yr and still gets food stamps! She has no kids, but she is a scammer. Learned it from her mother. I reported her, but they did nothing.

[bread_and_roses]

13. Oh, sure

and does she drive a caddy too? Lovely to see people on a "Democratic" board defending cutting Food Stamps while millions are out of work and more millions have been trapped in poverty for generations - both in our inner cities and in our rural areas but now of course creeping as well into the suburbs. The party of scraps and bones.

[Uben]

18. Reading problem?

I said nothing about taking food stamps away from anyone who truly needs them. Being a jerk doesn't change what I said, either.

[villager]

15. Billions! Food fraud! Welfare Queens! Scammers!

Goddamn lazy poor people!

What, they think they're citizens like some corporation or something!?

[davidinalameda]

32. +1

amen

[Greyhound]

51. And her sister has had eight children (by seven different fathers) so that she can draw $100K a year

in welfare.

And she drives her BMW 7 series to the welfare office to pick up her checks.:sarcasm:

Where do they find you people?:eyes:

[savalez]

8. Right on! Eat it Pubs!

[zenj8]

9. This is handing teachers crumbs

after dismantling public education. And where is the money coming from? Certainly not the bloated defense monies. No, it's coming off of welfare. Thanks a bunch for nothing!! We aren't grateful for the crumbs any more Mr. Obama. We definitely aren't grateful for Mr. Gibb's mouth. Sorry fellow DUers. I'm just majorly pissed off today.

[bossy22]

28. Don't blame the lack of money

the U.S. public education system spends the most per student then any other country. So its a lack of efficient use of that money that is the issue

IMHO the problem comes not mainly from teachers, but from administrators and district services. We pay school administrators Ridiculous amounts of money (in my school district the pay is $350,000 before benefits) when they don't really do anything. We have redudant administrators and departments in many school districts. Also, IMHO many school districts over pay their maintnence staff (in my district a newly highered janitor makes about 45,000 a year; while a newly hired teacher makes about 50,000. Thats a $5,000 disparity between a job that requires only a high school education and one that requires a person with a masters degree).

Also, we have to start teaching kids how to actually learn; rather than just teaching how to pass a standardized test.

[cornermouse]

30. Hired, not highered.

Janitors need to know something about electricity lest they electrocute themselves. Typically that means they need more than a high school education... Teachers are grossly underpaid.

We don't treat our children well in this country. We seem to prefer to pay lower taxes and allow the children to attempt to learn with little or nothing, starting with food stamps and working our way on through inadequate school equipment, books, and, frequently, inadequate buildings. Their teachers are underpaid and expected to work overtime without pay. And now? Now we're talking about cutting the amount of food the most vulnerable have to eat.

Like I said. I'm past angry.

[bossy22]

33. thanks for the spelling correction- when im working on little sleep i make stupid mistakes

quick thing: our janitorial staff doesnt actually do those things, we have a seperate maintnence staff whose pay is equal to teachers.

I disagree though that the problem is not enough money but wasteful appropriation of that money. such things as universal busing for high school seniors; even though 99% of them drive to school or renting coach buses to drive students to a museum that is no more than a 15 min drive away (when the district operates its own fleet of school buses). These are the things that need to be looked at. With this money that is being wasted we can use it to update computers and facilities. I also think there is too much disparity between different school districts budgets too. Some school systems (like detroits) are in desperate need of more money but other districts are just awash in cash (my district spends about 18,000 per student). Maybe the answer is to federalize school funding? i dont know.

[cornermouse]

34. At least half of the seniors have younger siblings

who, if the parents have brains in their heads, are NOT riding in the car with the teenage driver. Also, around here, a lot of kids old enough to drive still ride the bus.

I happen to know someone who was electrocuted because he grabbed the wrong wire. The reasonable answer is not to push the janitor's pay down but raise the teacher's pay higher.

[bossy22]

36. seniors in many districts go to school at a different time

still, the amount of busing is based on number of students in the district, including seniors. My district has 26 large buses it uses for main routes (we have 18 routes, so 8 buses used as spares or extras for trips or heavily populated routes). Every year at the board meetings they announce this number based on the amount of students in the district; though they always admit that only about a dozen of the buses are used on a regular basis (many times routes are combined mid-year because of the lack of ridership). A survey mailed out 4 years ago to residents asked parents of the students how their kids got to school. district wide (all grades) only a little more than half rode the bus on a regular basis. the number was even lower for high school students (i think it was about a 1/3 of students in HS took the bus to school). By law though, they have to have enough buses for all students, so we are stuck paying for maintnence and drivers for buses that are not needed.

I agree with raising teachers salary but they should also reduce the janitors pay as well (and use that money for infrastructure modernization- which is badly needed). When the guy who sweeps the floor pulls in with an Acura TL, you know you are wasting money

[cornermouse]

38. Small rural schools have regular classroom hours.

They're not staggered. Most of the time, if the students old enough drive its because they have sport practice or clubs after school. The bus runs once in the morning to pick them up and once in the afternoon to take them home, with the exception of kindergarten and special buses for the disabled. Staggered hours sounds sort of foolish to me.

Oddly enough, I've always considered the idea of pushing down salaries and making a segment of society poorer as a result to typically be a conservative or republican based idea. You forgot about cleaning the toilets, mopping floors, keeping the gym floor clean and waxed, etc. May I suggest that if you think the janitor is living high on the hog with a $45,000 salary you look for outside income other than the school.

[bossy22]

40. Staggered hours were actually implemented because of the busing situation

the district couldnt afford to triple the amount of buses therefore they staggered the times at which school started for different grade (mainly based on Elementary school, middle school, and high school)

$45,000 is just starting out (that doesnt include the benefits- which are really good); thats a kid straight out of high school with little work experience and real skill. After 8 years you reach max pay which is about $75,000- thats again just base pay, there is OT and all that such. Also, if you work nights, there is a 10% night differential so a night time custodian could be making $82,500. You can make more if you get promoted to head custodian of one of the buildings. Now you can retire with a full pension after 20 years, so you could retire before 40! with a full "gov't" pension. You dont think that maybe this is just a little too sweet of a deal? In many ways its better to be a janitor then a teacher.

Our district may seem awash with money; but its not. We do have a sizable budget but we also have many things that are in need of repairs and modernization but the funds just arent there. One of our elementary schools hasnt been updated since the early 1960's, the auditorium and gym are leaking water though the roof at the high school, and the special education center still uses computers that are close to 10 years old.

I'm not talking about severly reducing their salaries; if u reduced the salaries of the janitorial staff by 10% you would have atleast enough to make some repairs and purchase new equipment

[cornermouse]

47. Teen age janitors?

I've never seen one other than a few part time after school helpers. All the janitors I"ve ever seen were adults; frequently they were parents of children currently attending that school. I'd be willing to bet that with a $45,000 salary in the offing, very few if any DUers have seen teen age, high school graduate janitors.

[zogofzorkon]

54. Its interesting how labor is always overpaid and professionals never get the

money they deserve. In many private areas janitorial and maintenance staff have been replaced by "cleaning services" staffed by $12/hr no benefit employees with questionable training. The jobs removed were often held by people whose industries were outsourced or walmarted.
There are very few people who choose janitor as a career path. By all means reduce the pay and benefits of these people w/ no skill who still manage to clean your crap up, stock your restrooms and shovel your walkways. They work with mops, shovels and brooms in all weather and certainly don't deserve a sweet deal which should be reserved for those who hold a stick of chalk or fill out forms requesting more forms in air conditioned classrooms and offices.

[cornermouse]

39. One more thing.

Maybe its time to consider that at least part of the fault lies with the "bigger is better" notion. Maybe your schools have moved too far away from where the students live and maybe you've parceled them out too much into separate learning centers; elementary students only, middle school or junior high students only, high school students only. Maybe its time to shift gears and put the schools closer to the homes the students live in. Maybe its time to return to the past when kids got better educations in smaller classrooms and still had art periods, music periods, and if they were inclined, band period.

[1monster]

35. And don't blame the teachers or the administrators for the lack of efficient use

of school funds.

More and more often the Federal and State governments pass laws that school have to provide this or that item of interest to some special interest or ideology of some of the law makers. These mandates, far more often than not, are UNFUNDED. The schools must provide the mandate at its own expense and still find the money needed to pay for courses, books, and whatever materials required to continue to teach the necessary core course.

Extras, like music (which arguably is as necessary as the core courses because music has been demonstrated many times to have beneficial effects on children's brains in the areas of maths and science, as well as more subjective benefits) and Art (which sparks imagination and broadens the ability to look at problems from different angles) are not funded in my school district except to provide a teacher and sometimes text books.

And we are constantly being faced with having those courses cut back or eliminated.

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” Albert Einstein

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20100801/OPINION01/100729384/1076/opinion?p=1&tc=pg

..."that our schools are legally compelled to teach our children is lengthy and covers history, health, economics, politics and personal well-being.

That list got longer during the 2010 legislative session, when Florida lawmakers added suicide prevention and teenage-dating violence to its list of “required instruction. Already on the required list is the Declaration of Independence; “the history, meaning, significance and effect of the U.S. Constitution”; “arguments in support of our republican form of government”; the “primary functions and interrelationships” of the federal, state and local governments; the history of the United States and of Florida; and the “nature and importance of the free-enterprise system.”

Also required is flag education, the sacrifices of veterans, the history of the Holocaust, the history of African-Americans, Hispanic contributions to the United States, women's contributions to our nation and a 54-word section on “comprehensive health education” that includes everything from nutrition to environmental health to “the benefits of sexual abstinence ... and the consequences of teenage pregnancy.”

The list goes on: the principles of agriculture; the “true effects” of alcohol and narcotics; kindness to animals; and character development instruction that “stress(es) the qualities of patriotism; responsibility; citizenship; kindness; respect for authority, life, liberty and personal property; honesty; charity; self-control; racial, ethnic and religious tolerance; and cooperation.”

That's not the entire list, folks. But per copyright laws, I could only post four paragraph.

Of course many of these subjects should be covered in class as part of a regular curriculum, but Florida has legislated not only what must be taught, but even WHEN it must be taught... And the funds must come at the expense of other parts of the curriculum that are not mandated by the state.

If I remember correctly, 64% of the mandates are unfunded.

[jaxx]

11. K&R for another job well done.

Democrats for the people!

[Historic NY]

12. Wonder what Gibbs said..............

:sarcasm:

[cornermouse]

25. If you can't see that this is too little, too late

and that it punishes those most in need yet again, then nothing I can say will make you see it. I'm past angry at this point.

[SpartanDem]

31. multinational companies are in need?

[jpak]

29. More evidence that the Democratic Party is at war with us

save teachers and fire fighters?

pfffftt

[bushisanidiot]

42. That's MY president and MY party

and I couldn't be more proud.

[bvar22]

44. reducing food stamp benefits

WooHoo!
Now THATS a Sensible, Pragmatic, WoodChuckalicious Democratic thing to do!

Fuck the People on Foodstamps.
They're just LAZY and need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps like I did.

Besides, what is more important?
Fighting in Afghanistan?
OR
Lazy Hungry People on Foodstamps?

You people on the "Professional Left" need to get your priorities STRAIGHT!