International Protests Begin Ahead of Sept. 11 Koran Burning Event in Florida

[RamboLiberal]

Source: Fox News

International protests have begun -- with some demonstrators threatening jihad -- in advance of a Florida church's plan to burn copies of the Koran on Sept. 11.

Roughly 100 Indonesian Islamists protested outside the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta on Friday, Agence France-Press reported, with some threatening holy war if the plan to burn Korans on the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11 terror attacks comes to fruition at the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fla.

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FBI, state and local law enforcement agencies are monitoring the threats of violence promised if the church follows through on the event, Gainesville Police Department Maj. Rick Hanna told the Gainesville Sun.

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Evan Kohlmann, who tracks radical militant websites for the New York-based firm Flashpoint Global Partners, told the Gainesville Sun a homicide bomber has threatened to drive a truck into the church. Others have discussed setting the building on fire, he said.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/08/27/international-protests-begin-ahead-sept-koran-burning-event-florida/

[rucky]

1. This is what these book-burning assholes want.

I can only hope we give it to 'em peacefully.

[gtar100]

22. Exactly. The best response any Muslim should have is to ignore them.

Seriously. Ignore them. Let the so-called Christians burn away and prove that they have no affect on the Muslim world. That would show strength of character and deep faith in one's religion.

To do otherwise is simply idolatry.

[Aaria]

25. Absolutely correct. Bad attention is still attention, and it will just spread their hate.

[Deep13]

2. I guess the idea that the U.S. Govt. doesn't control this hasn't occurred to them.

Kind of like threats made against the Danish govt. for those cartoons.

Burning Korans seems like a silly thing to do, but it is no less a protected religious expression than building an Islamic community center. And frankly, the Fundies' destruction of some Korans does not affect the protesters in the least. No one is making Muslims participate or watch or whatever.

Just what are a bunch of Fundy Christians doing with all those Korans anyway?

[boppers]

41. It's not in their mental paradigm.

In a vast majority of the countries of the world, intensely provocative speech is illegal. Take Fred Phelps, for example: most other countries would have jailed his family a long time ago. Nazi's? Europe jails them, we give them parade permits and police protection.

In that sense, we are the weird fundamentalists, protecting some of the most bizarre and vile speech, regardless of a sense of human decency. You have any idea how bad a porno has to be to be found obscene at a federal level?

[tularetom]

3. A "homicide bomber"?

I'd bet that isn't how the guy described him. Nobody in the world except fox news uses that term.

[Salander]

39. This phrase, "homocide bomber" is a Fox News doublespeak creation.

[blue sky at night]

4. what is that old saying....oh, ya.........

live by the sword, die by the sword. I not saying these "christians" should be attacked, but isn't it cute the way they are to be surrounded by Gun Toting Right-Wing Assholes?? Wonder how long those guys are going to hang around after the Hate DAY? This whole thing makes me SICK.

[EC]

9. Nope

the gun-toting right wing assholes pulled out...said that the church was too radical...was not promoting the good voice of God - or some excuse of the sort...

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DissedByBush]

6. The opposite was easy to find

I don't remember international protests when Muslims were burning Bibles.

All that hate all around, you can practically feel it.

[AikidoSoul]

13. I can feel the hate. It's palpable. N/T

[madmom]

7. Sure they have every "right" to do this... BUT,

shouldn't they be a little "sensitive" to others feelings? Isn't that what everyone is saying about the Muslim community center in New York?:nopity:

[Igel]

19. No.

That's what some people were saying about the "Islamic Cultural Center" cum mosque in NYC.

Of course, most progressives--the people most up in arms about the Quran burning--believed that the First Amendment right to build (if local zoning permitted) trumped any calls for respecting sensitivities.

At the time I pointed out that when it came to the Quran burning the positions were reversed--an asymmetry that shows quite neatly that it's not principle at stake but who the actors involved are.

[sabrina 1]

32. Are you equating a legal right to build a community center

and place of worship two blocks from the WTC with the intention of promoting peace to a deliberate intent to insult and promote hatred of another religion?

In the law, intent is important. Eg, an accidental killing is not considered to be murder. But pre-meditated killing is first degree murder.

There is no comparison between these two events, unless you believe that the Imam in NYC is a terrorist supporter with the same goals as this church, to incite violence.

Remembering what happened to the two men who had come to protest the Mosque but 'looked like Muslims' and ended up needing protection from the teabagger mob, the only similarities here are between the extremists led by the hate-filled rightwing blogger and the jihadists in Indonesia.

I don't see anyone saying they don't have the freedom to burn the Quran, but there is no purpose to doing that other than pure hatred. Building a Community Center with a Mosque hoping to promote peace doesn't even compare as far as motivation goes.

I'm sure the same mob protesting the mosque, will be in Tn cheering on this hate-fest though. Seems like their kind of party.

[boppers]

42. Intent is important, and came up as an issue in the community center.

Part of those opposed to it suggested that the location was designed to be a "victory memorial".

I don't think they're right, but in *their* eyes, the intent of the community center was a deliberate, provocative, act.

[peopleb4money]

35. I think you can stand for the first ammendment whether you agree on its use or not

I believe the Islamic center to be positive. There's no hate in it. Its just people constructing a building that represents their highest values. However, book burning is a negative act. I disagree with it fundamentally. Yah, I don't think they should go to prison for doing it, but its an irresponsible use of free speech and undermines it as a principle. They really are making a conscious effort to incite hatred by doing it, where I don't believe the Muslims who were building the mosque several blocks from the WTO site had any such intention. I think people should refrain from burning Qurans, not because of fear from terrorists or whatever. They should do it out of respect for all the good Muslims in the world who aren't violent people. By the way, if someone gets hurt, I don't think its necessarily going to be the churches in the states doing it. It might actually be Americans overseas in Indonesia who have nothing to do with it. I don't think they've really thought this out. Its irrational.

[EC]

8. Well, now the U.S. Feds should be able to step in

since this is clearly "a threat to our national security"...where is Homeland Security?

[friendly_iconoclast]

15. That would be *exactly* the wrong thing to do. The RW would say "See, told you so"

Have the Feds step in for a violation of a local fire ordinance? Substitute "American flags" for "Korans" and see how well
the idea sits with you...

Not that are any 'good' things to do in this. One set of pseudo-religious dickheads are bound and determined to piss off
a second set of pseudo-religious dickheads, who will take out their ire on innocent third parties.

[RamboLiberal]

17. IMHO the local FD should just be standing by with hoses connected

And as soon as the fire is lit turn them on. And just frog march them right there for violating local fire ordinances.

[smalll]

33. Of course! Have the Feds step in -- threat to national security --

after all, they threatened "jihad!" We can't risk that -- that's too dangerous! We have to back down! Run away, run away!

And yet you seem to salivate over this threat because it could give us the excuse to shut down a perfectly constitutional (albeit douchebaggy) exercise of the First Amendment. So tell me; if the some Christianists/Dominionists/Michigan Militia types threatened enough greivous harm to Park51, would you want "Homeland Security" to stop the Mosque?

[Skittles]

10. religious nuttery, always sickening whatever the religion

:puke:

[onethatcares]

11. the "Dove Outreach" wants to burn Korans

Jesus wept.

[Drale]

12. These Idiots

These idiots are going to cause another attack

[bergie321]

14. That is their goal

They want a holy war with Islam as much as the radical Muslims what a holy war with Christians. Moderate religious people and Atheists like me are caught in the middle of the psychopaths.

[SnakeEyes]

16. Even if these idiots burn Korans....

they won't have caused any attack, should one occur. These idiots burning Korans harms no one. The idiots that use violence because they are offended are the ones that cause an attack.

[iamthebandfanman]

18. yeah, respond like a moron

thatll teach the idiots.


??


man, i really dislike religion sometimes. lol.

[humbled_opinion]

20. This is only the begining...

The right is feeling scorned because of the Mosque issue and they will go to greater lengths then this to prove their point. It is about to get totally out of control...

[peopleb4money]

36. If its popular enough, they'll star burning The Origin of Species, A Brief History of Time...

The God Delusion, Gay literature, liberal literature, or anything else from any other group they want to blame for the demise of America.

[Douglas Carpenter]

21. the problem isn't just one crazy right-wing church or one Community Center with one Mosque

Right now there is a nationwide campaign of anti-Muslim hysteria being whooped up by right-wing politicians, the crazy wing of fundamentalist Christianity and the likes of Newsmax and Fox News. There is a grave danger of this hysteria becoming - if it has not already - completely mainstream discourse in American society.

This hysteria has dangerous ramifications, not only for the American-Muslim community but for the entirety of society and the direction it is going. The 20th Century has surely shown that hate campaigns are not controllable and can and do lead society down extremely self-destructive paths.

This hysteria has even more dangerous ramifications for American foreign policy.

There are right-wing religious crazies in America who now pretty much dominate the Republican Party and there are the neoconservatives who are bent on promoting a permanent American war in the Middle East and I believe they must be stopped or America and the whole world will experience a catastrophe beyond imagination. The religious crazies believe they must help facilitate the battle of Armageddon in order to usher in the second coming of Christ. This is not a small marginal group of kooks. This is a group who are to a large degree now calling the shots in the Republican Party while their allies the neoconservatives work out the details.

Diffusing this hysteria and not allowing this hysteria to become mainstream discourse is one of the most important stands anyone take - The consequences of this hysteria growing and becoming even more mainstream are just too dire.

[Karenina]

37. Just wait till Geert Wilders arrives on 9/11 to mainline his talking points

into the American body politic flanked by Bolton, Gingrich et al. :hide:

[awoke_in_2003]

23. I have two bibles at home...

Think I will burn one. I'd burn the other, but it was given to me by my grandfather

on edit: do not get me wrong, I am not in the habit of burning books- just want to piss these people off. There is one book I advocate burning, though- Closing Time (sequal to Catch 22)by Joseph Heller. No one should ever have to suffer that book. How one man could write such a fantastic book, and follow it up with the exrement called Closing Time is beyond me.

[bluestateguy]

24. Radical Muslims and Redical Fundamentalist Christians all want the same thing

A religious Holy War. They fantasize about it.

[roxiejules]

26. Both sides are guilty.....

The protests shouldn't be about the Koran burning, they should be about an end to the violence.


http://www.christianpost.com/article/20100505/muslims-burn-christian-center-under-construction-in-indonesia/index.html

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/muslims_burn_6_christians_to_death_after_false_allegations/

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/faith/2010/01/attacks_on_churches_continue_i.html

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/muslim-boys-urinated-on-bible/story-e6frg6nf-1111112640400

[gerenimox]

38. the violence will stop when the christian crusaders stop genociding muslims

and get the hell out of the countries they are invading.

[cosmicone]

27. As heinous as it is, it is protected free speech. n/t

[bullwinkle428]

28. I hope this Koran-burning asshole realizes he's helping to get

more American troops killed!

I'm also guessing the church-mobile has "support the troops" bumper stickers on it as well.

[Turborama]

29. What about civilians who live abroad? n/t

[Turborama]

31. Roughly 100 Indonesian Islamists protested outside the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta on Friday

I live in Indonesia and this is starting to worry me a lot...

Church threatened for Koran burning
Updated: Friday, 27 Aug 2010, 10:33 PM EDT
Published : Friday, 27 Aug 2010, 10:31 PM EDT

GAINSVILLE, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35, Orlando) - International protests have begun -- with some demonstrators threatening jihad -- in advance of a Florida church's plan to burn copies of the Koran on Sept. 11. Roughly 100 Indonesian Islamists protested outside the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta on Friday, Agence France-Press reported, with some threatening holy war if the plan to burn Korans on the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11 terror attacks comes to fruition at the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fla.

"No one will be able to control this reaction," Roni Ruslan, of Hizbut Tahrir, a radical organization than advocates Islamic law, told Agence France-Press. "We urge the U.S. government and Christian leaders to stop the crazy plan from this small sect. It's an insult to Islam and to 1.5 billion Muslims around the world."

Protesters at the U.S. Embassy shouted chants of "God is greater" while holding signs that read "Destroy Burners of the Koran," among others, according to AFP. Meanwhile, Pastor Terry Jones has said he intends to proceed with plans to burn the holy text next month.

Full article: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/local/082710_Church_threatened_for_koran_burning

[Turborama]

30. Guess which is the only 'news' organization reporting this?

Yep, Faux: http://www.google.com/search?q=International+Protests+Begin+Ahead+of+Sept.+11+Koran+Burning+Event+in+Florida&num=50&hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&nfpr=1&prmd=n&source=univ&tbs=nws:1&tbo=u&ei=zNN4TITEE47fcejJvYoG&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CB4QsQQwAA

Guess which US 'news' channel uses 84 providers to broadcast Faux live 24/7 in Pakistan...?

Yep, Faux.

More details here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8976871&mesg_id=8976871">Faux Is Very Dangerous! Their Propaganda War On Islam Is Broadcast Unfiltered ALL OVER THE WORLD

[Codeine]

34. *facepalm*

Way to live up to the stereotypes, guys. Sigh.

[lynne]

40. If burning a flag is an expression of free speech, isn't this the same thing?

- Not that I would do either or agree with it but the two situations do seem similar. If they bought the books and they are theirs to burn, let them have at it providing they have the burn permits. It would appear that doing so is within their rights and our laws.

[Turborama]

43. Faux Orlando tried to make the same false equivalence. BTW Dove World’s fire permit denied again

Here's Faux Orlando's piece, watch the false equivalence at the very beginning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj7NtgE6Kqc

Dove World’s fire permit denied again (some of the replies are quite telling, too)
http://citylimits.blogs.gainesville.com/11721/dove-worlds-fire-permit-denied-again/?tc=ar

Even World Nut Daily seem to think it's a pointless, stupid and dangerous idea. Google, "'Burn a Quran' pastor: Plan could put Americans in danger" to see what I mean.

[lynne]

44. Why do you consider it a false equivalence?

- No matter how you cut it, a flag is just cloth and the koran is just paper and ink. Agree it's stupid but I, personally, have never been in favor of denying rights - no matter how ill used - due to fear of retaliation.

[Turborama]

45. A flag is a symbol of nationhood/patriotism and has no deep spiritual significance

A book that 1.5 billion people (rightly or wrongly) believe is the word of "God" has a deep spiritual meaning to them, as do other "holy" scriptures to believers of other religions.

Whether you see it as the difference between just a piece of cloth and some paper with ink on it is only relevant to you. There are 1.5 billion people who will disagree.

I'm neither religious nor a blind patriot but I can see the difference. It's not just about what the known fatal repercussions would be, it's a matter of the needless disrespect and a lack of empathy.

Oh, and the Qu'ran burners who's "rights" you are defending? They're doing this as a money making stunt: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9080253

[lynne]

46. Many would argue that the flag does have deep spiritual significance -

- and our military lays their life on the line for it so I can't agree that there's difference between the two. Guess it depends on your viewpoint.

To me this is the NYC Mosque/Community Center debate turned around. Some object that the center is disrespectful, lacks empathy, and shouldn't be built while others maintain its within their Constitutional rights to build it. How can we argue that its ok for the Community Center to be built even though it is upsetting to some yet also argue against the koran burnings for the same reason? Both are within their Constitutional rights to do so. I don't see where money impacts liberties and certainly the community center will raise funds as well.

I think the best we can hope for in this situation is that the fire permit isn't issued and the fire chief puts an end to it on those grounds.

[Turborama]

47. You ask a good question

"How can we argue that its ok for the Community Center to be built even though it is upsetting to some yet also argue against the koran burnings for the same reason?"

You have to think about what are the purposes for both of these two things to get to how I can argue the difference.


What is the purpose and expected end result of burning a whole load of Qu'rans?

What is the purpose and expected end result of building an Islamic Community Center (ICC) based on the same principles as the http://www.jccmanhattan.org/">Jewish Community Center (JCC) in Manhattan?

This "NYC Mosque/Community Center debate", as you call it, didn't even exist until Faux, Geller et al got their fearmongering hatefilled claws into it.

The Qu'ran has been respected as a holy book for centuries, even by those who aren't Muslims.

"I think the best we can hope for in this situation is that the fire permit isn't issued and the fire chief puts an end to it on those grounds."

Didn't you read my 1st reply to you? It's been denied twice.


And as for this "I don't see where money impacts liberties" statement. Is that referring to my "money making stunt" comment? If you want to see where money comes into this, go to the link I gave you and also the DK link kpete provides within it to find out.

PS I think you might want to look up the meaning of the word "spiritual".

(BTW I have a personal stake in how this all pans out as I am an expat living in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world)

[lynne]

48. You don't need to get snarky -

- just because I don't agree with you. Yes, I know its been denied twice and they'll contend they will do it anyway. Possibly I should have worded it better but the next step would be for them to do it - and the fire chief come in and put an end to it due to violation of burn laws and lack of permit. Seems to me that's the only solution left.

Purpose and recourse doesn't matter one bit. Neither does money. Or history. They are smokescreens and false arguments. It's within their Constitutional rights to burn the korans as a freedom of expression. Period. End of sentence. Either we go with 100% full rights for all or we start tweaking our freedoms and liberties for things we don't like and people we don't agree with. No thanks.

[Turborama]

49. You steadfastly stand by your belief in the the sanctity of the "rights" in America's constitution

in a similar way that Muslims steadfastly stand by the belief in the sanctity of the words written in their centuries old Qu'ran.

I haven't once said anyone should be denied their rights. And "purpose and recourse" (or motives and intended results as I'd prefer to describe them) do matter a lot in the context of my argument above.

The campaign against the Islamic Community Center and the Qu'ran burning have two things in common. They are part of an organized hate and fear campaign aimed at Muslims.

Do you have any idea what the results will be if this continued hate and fear campaign continues?

Did you listen to Keith's Special Comment a couple of weeks ago? If not, here it is with transcript: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x495848

Also, here's a couple of examples of what's happening already in America:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9083460">NY Times: American Muslims Ask, Will We Ever Belong?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4529510">University of Florida Muslims fear Koran burning may spark violence

What will happen to US citizens who live outside of America in Muslim countries waits to be seen.

I may appear to be "snarky" to you, but I get annoyed when people apparently don't bother to read what I write or go to links that I provide to back up what I'm saying.

[totodeinhere]

50. It would be wrong to react to the Koran burning with violence.

Violence won't solve anything and it will just make matters worse. It will play right into the hands of the ignorant Christian fundamentalists who are attempting this provocation. If the burning goes forward and violence occurs as a result, you know what the headline in the media will be. It won't be 'Koran burned." It will be "Muslim violence." This is just what the burners want. They want to provoke Muslims into violence in an attempt to harm the reputation of the Muslim community. The best way to handle the burners is to ignore them.

[Vehl]

51. Why protest over the actions of some idiots?

I'm totally against the burning of books, but by protesting against the actions of this bunch of stupidos, the protesters are playing right into the hands of those who burn books....by giving them more air/media time.

just ignore such idiocy and they will not amount to anything more than a bunch of wackos burning some books.
don't give them the attention they so desperately seek.

[slackmaster]

52. It's bound to bring out all the people who take their shit way too seriously

:nuke:

[humblebum]

53. Just imagine the risk these people are exposing our US troops to

in Iraq and Afghanistan. Shameful and unpatriotic.