Nissan starts "selling" all-electric Leaf sedan today

[DainBramaged]

Source: USA Today on line

At long last, Nissan begins taking actual orders today for the first next-generation fully electric car from a major automaker, the Leaf.

More than 18,000 people who plunked down $99 to stay on the reservations list will have first crack at turning their interest into an actual order for the all-electric, five-seat car. Orders will be taken online and Nissan is still taking reservations on Leaf's web site. Even though now you can actually pay for one, deliveries won't start until December.

The car has a range of about 100 miles per charge. Nissan has been having inspectors make home visits and taking other steps to make sure customers will be able to recharge at home and likely be happy with the car.

The base level Leaf, the SV, is priced at $33,720, Nissan says. It comes with a list of standard features, including cruise control and a navigation system. There is only one higher trim level, the SL, at $33,720. The list of extras?:



Read more: http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/08/nissan-starts-selling-all-electric-leaf-sedan-today/1

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100 miles range, must check house to make sure car can be recharged, pay more for quick recharger. And deliveries in maybe December.


The Volt, a real car with huge range and you don't need your house inspected to recharge it. Being built in September for October delivery.


http://www.chevrolet.com/pages/open/default/future/volt.do

[still_one]

1. and both cars are not cost effective /nt

[Lightning Count]

3. The Volt is very cost effective for me.

I just want to know what happens if you run out of charge in your Leaf 100 miles from home .

[JCMach1]

7. They should build in a smart GPS system so you never run out of juice!

i.e. dire warning before you proceed!

[DainBramaged]

10. Where will you charge it?

Problem is, no infrastructure to recharge electrics. Cart before the horse. That's why having someone come to inspect your house to make sure you can charge the vehicle is suspect.

[still_one]

14. What also isn't being considered is the production of electricity to recharge is not free

and in some cases extremely polluting, depending which power plant generates it

[Schema Thing]

16. It is being considered.

[bloomington-lib]

19. From what I've read about the Volt, it's about $1 per charge on average

[diane in sf]

38. it's cleaner to run an electric car even using coal to generate the electricity

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

53. Been to California?

I can think of a dozen places within a few miles of my house with such facilities, In colder climates plug-ins for block heaters are not unusual either and would serve this purpose nicely.

I think both cars are ridiculous, but this isn't much of a problem.

[dmallind]

22. Funnily enough they did. NT

[bherrera]

11. You could carry a horse on top of the car

And use the horse to pull your car back to the barn. Seriously speaking, I am an engineer and i work on the public transport system for Alicante, Spain. The use of electric cars with batteries is not sensible at this time, because the batteries use lithium, and there is a limited supply of this material. Therefore this is a niche application for individuals who wish to feel good.

The most efficient system is the light rail using aerodynamic trams, such as the one we have, with the lines able to trigger green traffic lights as the tram moves along the tracks. This gives the tram rider a very fast transportation means. For individual vehicles, the most practical solution now is the 5 or 6 speed manual transmission fuel injected diesel engine. A second practical alternative is the hybrid vehicle with a large battery pack, which can be lithium to make it more compact. These all electric vehicles have limited range, and are not sustainable due to the lithium supply problem.

[still_one]

15. That I agree with /nt

[Drum]

20. (Off-topic: I loved my visit to Alicante!)

What a lovely place! :-)

[bherrera]

26. Thank you, tell your friends

We like to encourage tourism. There are some needed improvements (the street signs should be marked better for the tourists), but I believe it is one of the best places to visit in Europe.

[Francesca9]

51. All fine but

Americans don't know how to use a manual transmission

Diesel is not that easy to find.

We have electric light rail in cities but it doesn't make sense elsewhere. We had more electric light rail in 1910 than we now do, the old track got pulled and the track was built over. Now we would have to tear out buildings to build rail in the cities and outside of cities the environmental damage to wildlife habitat might be a major issue.

We can build a few main high volume lines but the lower volume lines necessary for a system are impractical. Often the bus system is so infrequent (twice or even once hourly) that light rail is too slow if a connection is needed. The US won't be building much more light rail.

[iris27]

67. Diesel also generates particulate matter. If we suddenly

largely increased the number of diesel vehicles we use here, we'd be trading one atmospheric problem for another.

[CreekDog]

63. manual transmissions aren't more efficient

5 or 6 speed autos with the same gearing are as or more efficient.

it's not the "manual" in transmissions that make them more efficient --it's that in the past, manuals had 5th gear and autos back then did not.

and in city driving, automatics are more efficient because they shift up to top gear so quickly.

[still_one]

13. based on the price of the car even with tax credits, it would take at least 10 years to break even

over buying a comparable car get 30 mpg at today's gas prices

For me it is not cost effective

[CreekDog]

64. "Today's Gas Prices" -- there's your fallacy right there

Nobody knows what they will be tomorrow.

When they were over $4/gallon, were you expecting that?

[LanternWaste]

31. Same thing that happens when you run out of gas...

"I just want to know what happens if you run out of charge in your Leaf 100 miles from home."

Same thing that happens when you run out of gas... your car probably stops running.

[Lightning Count]

35. Where is that rim shot? nt

[sfwriter]

39. No, you are wrong.

They explode. ;-)

[DainBramaged]

9. Neither are hybrids

but let's not make that point either.

[FMBM]

49. I have a friend...

who has an all electric Morris Mini... he also has a solar house which he uses to charge up his Mini... He took me for a ride... awesome acceleration... He says he gets about 40 miles on a full charge... which is OK since he works only about 10 miles away... Of course the initial capital investment in the solar for the house is pretty stiff...

[harun]

2. This is a big deal. It will be the first electric vehicle available for full

sale and not lease. Which is huge.

Wouldn't it be worse if Nissan didn't help people out with checking their electrical systems in their house? I mean I think it is a nice service they are offering to those who need it.

Hope they sell the Volt at a decent price point.

[DainBramaged]

5. Volt will beat it to market, and it is a real car not a charge limited vehicle

click the link.

[thereismore]

29. I rather like Chevy Cruze. 40 mpg highway on a classic 4cylinder gas engine.

That's better than Prius and almost the same as Honda Insight (both hybrids).

[truthisfreedom]

4. Editing is becoming a lost art these days.

"The base level Leaf, the SV, is priced at $33,720, Nissan says. It comes with a list of standard features, including cruise control and a navigation system. There is only one higher trim level, the SL, at $33,720. "

Umm, guys? Did you bother reading that sentence before you published it?

[DainBramaged]

6. Write USA Today and complain. They missed the quick charge add on.

[ejpoeta]

8. this is a good start. while it is true that the volt can do gas and electric

i would like to eventually see an electric car that can get equal to the gas mileage of a regular car, so 300 miles per charge. i also think that if people buy these vehicles we will see improvements and infrastructure investment so that people can recharge like they fill their tank.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

12. If I were in a position to spend that much on either car...

I would be at a BMW dealership,

[Lightning Count]

17. Sounds like a great way to support American workers.

sarcasm.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

23. I will let the good people of South Carolina know...

you have rescinded their citizenship.

[Lightning Count]

25. South Carolina has union labor working for an American corp? nt

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

28. So US citizenship is now tied to UAW membership?

good to know...

[Lightning Count]

47. The fact that you don't see the difference is why we can't have nice things. nt

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

52. Americans, in America making shit Americans buy

No, I don't see the difference or why any one region or union should have a monopoly on that. The UAW has been trying to unionize the Honda Marysville plant for thirty years, where a good number of the workers are ex-UAW members who once worked at shuttered Ford and GM plants. Some people prefer the job security of working at a plant that has never laid anybody off than a union securing their place on the furlough list.

[Romulox]

54. To sum up: Trade unionism? BAD! Stupid nationalism? GOOD!

People who don't understand the difference? THE BEST!

Have I got it? :silly:

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

60. To sum it up...

People aren't going to be shamed into buying into the Big 3.

[Romulox]

62. We understand that you have no shame.

:hi:

[LanternWaste]

56. It's called "moving the goalposts" in common parlance...

Your initial statement specified one set-- American Workers. His response fell well within that set. You then qualified your statement to include an additional sub-set-- Union Workers. His original response did not fall into that sub-set, however your sub-set was added *after* the initial question.

It's called "moving the goalposts" in common parlance-- if one doesn't like the wholly valid answer they receive to a question, one simply restate the question with additional pre-conditions. It's not very honest, you know...

[Lightning Count]

57. I believe he knew what I meant. Post 54 said it best. nt

[Romulox]

61. Does a Cheap Labor bat-signal go out, or what?

:puke:

[Lagomorph]

66. Glad you pointed that out...

Win the argument you weren't having, to avoid losing the argument you were having.

The difference between discussing an issue and sniping at the other side with never ending qualifiers.

[petronius]

18. They made ~$1.8 million from people paying for reservations to buy a car?

I don't know if that's really smart or kinda seedy...

[dmallind]

21. AND OF COURSE THE OTHER SIDE

ICE use for LEaf - zero. Volt??

Risk of gas going stale in Leaf - zero. Volt --wait when did I have to go over 40 miles last?

Price - $8K less for Leaf. 6K even if you want to add the fancy fast charger which is by no means mandatory. I can buy a really reliable and economical car for the one or two times a year I need to go over 100miles a day for that and it'll last for years.

Breakdown potential. Quick -which is more complex - an electric motor or an electric motor connected to an ICE? Whuch has more replacement parts and fluids and maintenance needs?

70% or so of all commuters go well under 100 miles per day (hey maybe that's why the average pmileage per year on used cars isn't 36500...)

Most people have elctricity at home.

Why not never burn gas again?


Now I personally think the Volt is a fine car that fits an important niche for those who maybe have only one car in the family and a substantial need to go long distances on a routine basis.

It's not however the best alternative for those who have more normal commutes and have multiple cars like most families.

But I don't feel the need to insecurely pump up my own preference by slagging off the alternatives without provocation and with barely any positive statement about that preference included.

Quick question I'd be willing to wager on. Which will sell more and have a longer waiting list in the 2013 model year....?

[Lightning Count]

24. How do you refill when you run out of juice away from home?

How many points to you award for a vehicle that is built by American union labor?

What are the first steps to troubleshooting an electric motor?

[bherrera]

27. Depends on the troube the electric motor has

in an electric vehicle, the motor is seldom a problem. The problem will arise in the power converter, the control system, or the transmission. I would not expect the motor to have a problem.

[raystorm7]

30. I'm sure the smart people at Nissan thought of it. Just go to a local dealership and simply ask...

Asking here will give you the wrong answers x10.

[raystorm7]

32. Betting my money on Nissan. They make very durable cars. This is a start of something larger :)

[Lightning Count]

46. As opposed to GM?

Is that the implication?

[robbibaba]

33. Personally, I am thrilled.

If you've ever seen "Who Killed The Electric Car" you'll probably get how exciting this is. Yes, all sorts of improvements need to happen with the batteries and charging stations and all, but this is NEVER going to happen first. The people buying the Leaf are paving the way for a huge change.
The fellow from Spain is right, what we should have is light rail mass transit, but I sure as hell don't want to hold my breath for that to happen. And by the way, the main reason we don't have it is because GM, Firestone and Standard Oil bought up all of the local rail systems, tore up the tracks and torched the street cars (you can read all about it in Fast Food Nation). The three companies were actually convicted on conspiracy charges in federal court - and fined $1 each. Good old GM - watching them collect and crush the EV1 should give anyone pause.
But the Volt does seem like an awesome car. I really hope it succeeds.

[blue_onyx]

45. FYI

Toyota did the same thing with the RAV4 EV.

"Approximately 1500 all-electric RAV4s were built from 1997 to 2003, which offered a top speed of 80 mph and a range of nearly 100 miles. The full recharge time was 5 hours, and the MSRP at the time was $42,000. Although 1500 RAV4 EVs were built, only about 328 were sold, with the remaining vehicles being destroyed as they came off their leases."

http://www.trucktrend.com/features/news/2009/163_news090424_toyota_rav4_hybrid_suv/index.html

[flvegan]

34. I'm holding out for the SSC Ultimate Aero EV. All electric, 1000 horsepower.

Slightly more expensive.

Yes, I realize that I'm a troublemaker.

[sofa king]

36. I don't think all-electrics can easily compete with plug-in hybrids.

It's a simple fact that the United States is a land of enormous distances, distances which cannot be covered easily by all-electric vehicles. For example, my round-trip commute is very close to the one-way distance between Amsterdam, The Netherlands, and Antwerp, Belgium. No electric car I know of will be able to reliably cover that distance without a midway recharge, and subjecting the vehicle to two recharging cycles a day may reduce battery lifetime, too. But my dirty little 50cc moped does it on a gallon of gas (very uncomfortably).

It makes much more sense to include a back-up charging unit within the vehicle itself for those days when the vehicle is asked to do more than batteries alone can handle. In a plug-in hybrid, the combustion engine can be run at peak efficiency, emissions can be better controlled, it doesn't have to be used except when necessary, and flexible fuels of lower energy output are still a viable option. That may make hybrids competitive with the electrical grid, emissions-wise. Convenience- and performance-wise they'll blow the electrics out of the water.

But if Americans really want an all-electric car, or don't have a choice anymore, I'll be there to take their money by selling them a trailer with a Honda generator and extension cord on it, and I won't call it a "hybrid," I'll call it, "a portable electricity generating system for your all-electric vehicle." Cha-ching!

[Vehl]

37. hybrids are a better option....till the electric car matures

right now the cons outweigh the pros vis.a.vis the hybrid cars

[Xithras]

40. I'd take a Leaf over a Volt for an around town car in a heartbeat.

Based on the range of the Leaf, and its battery capacity, the all-electric operating cost of the Leaf would be roughly 1/16th the cost of running a gas car. The Volt is capable of being used as an all-electric car as well, but it has a smaller battery and is considerably heavier, which not only means less range, but more importantly means that it will use a great deal more electricity to operate. You'll see that difference in your electric bill.

The reality here is that the Leaf and Volt both have distinct markets. I don't use my car for long range trips, but instead use it to putter around town when the weather doesn't cooperate with me riding my bike. The added range and "features" of the Volt, therefore, hold no real appeal to me. For people who are looking for a more efficient general family car, the Volt is probably a better option because they won't be constrained by range.

And, FWIW, I'm STILL waiting for someone to release a damned hybrid minivan or crossover. Including the foster, I have six people in my family, so "family road trips" mean piling into my wifes 19MPG V6 gas burner. If either of these companies were serious about environmental stewardship, they'd release a 30MPG large family hybrid to lure the soccer moms out of their gas guzzling Dodge Caravans.

[hayu_lol]

41. Wonder what they are using for heater/defrosters in the...

leaf. With the Volt, at least you can have reliable heating in cold climates.

Also wonder if that 100 mile figure includes use of lights and all the other electronics...or does it cut into that figure some.

[midnight armadillo]

42. I'll take my Leaf with Gulf Oil livery

That would be a good laugh. the 100 mile range is only sufficient for 99.99999% of the driving I do in my day-to-day car use.

[boppers]

43. "real car"? Is that anything like a "true Scotsman"? eom

[Jack_DeLeon]

44. The leaf and a used gas car are a better deal than the volt...

you can get a used gas car and a leaf for the price of the volt. You use the leaf in town, and if you go out of town or just need to do some driving while charging the other car.

Hell for the cost difference of the Leaf to the Volt you could buy a Honda EU2000 charger which is man portable and you could probably atleast get somewhat of a charge in the Leaf after a while in the off chance you do run it dry. Or if are one of the people who doesnt have that problem you could probably get a solar array or small wind turbines for home and get somewhat off the grid.

Myself I'm very interested in seeing how the Toyota/Telsa RAV4 shapes up in 2012, if its good I'd like one for commuting and some light off road fun, and I will be keeping my current '07 Camry for road trips.

[Lightning Count]

48. And I hear that you can get some great deals at Walmart. nt

[Romulox]

55. LOL. Carry around a generator and some diesel in the back seat, and that Leaf is awesome!

I wonder why the gub'mint didn't just let nissan put a diesel tank on the thing, if it's that good of an idea? It's ALWAYS the damn gub'mint, ain't it? :hi: :silly:

[Kringle]

50. zero money for gas taxes, everybody wins .nt

[wordpix]

58. too much money for me but at least EVs are coming back so hooray

:applause:

[Javaman]

59. $1000 1975 datsun + $10,000 electric retro fit = $11,000 electric car. nt

[CreekDog]

65. Much of San Francisco's bus system is electric and they are cleaner than the diesels

quieter and they are better on hills too.

and the power comes from a dam in the mountains.

the argument that it's just as dirty --no, certainly not in this case.