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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 03:14 AM
Original message
Send me the secret files on Dr Kelly: Att. Gen. WILL study papers that could finally lead to inquest
Edited on Thu Sep-02-10 03:41 AM by Turborama
Source: The Daily Mail

Send me the secret files on Dr Kelly: Attorney General WILL study papers that could finally lead to an inquest

By JAMES SLACK -

Attorney General Dominic Grieve has made a dramatic U-turn and taken possession of secret files which could trigger an inquest into the death of Dr David Kelly.

The Mail can reveal that Mr Grieve and his officials will shortly begin poring over post-mortem reports which Lord Hutton controversially ruled should be kept under lock and key for 70 years.

It is a highly unusual step which means that, for the first time, Mr Grieve is actively seeking the evidence required to hold a new inquiry into the weapons inspector's death.

He previously insisted he had no 'investigative function' and that he could only view the documents if they were released to the public by Justice Secretary Ken Clarke.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1308156/Attorney-General-WILL-study-Dr-Kelly-papers-finally-lead-inquest.html



A step towards truth

By DAILY MAIL COMMENT

The death of David Kelly remains a mystery

Of all the malign inheritances of the Blair years, the death of Dr David Kelly, which even the former prime minister admits in his book would be seen as a 'Watergatestyle killing', is one of the worst.

Despite the Coalition coming to power three months ago, we are still no closer to discovering what really happened.

The Attorney General, Dominic Grieve, has been dragging his feet. But now he has at last asked the Justice Ministry for the papers on Dr Kelly's death.

It's a first step towards the only acceptable conclusion - an inquest allowing proper public examination of the facts surrounding this tragic and still mysterious event.

From: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1308259/DR-DAVID-KELLY-INQUEST-A-step-truth.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 03:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. That is great news! I wonder what changed his mind?
I will never forget when Dr. Kelly's death was reported in the news. Reports claimed that Tony Blair when he learned of the death, was 'ashen faced'. Most likely he knew that it was murder and that the public would never believe otherwise.

His treatment at the hands of the government had been horrendous and was news for weeks before his death. The only question is, who killed him? Blair's stunned appearance may have been because he realized he was dealing with people who were capable of anything. I always thought he had agreed to scaring Kelly, but not to murdering him.

All the money in the world cannot erase the crimes Blair is responsible for.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Change in Gov't - Blair and Labour are out of power. Tories see a possible edge here.
That's my best guess. However, very skeptical that anyone in power actually really wants to open a murder inquest into their predecessor Administration. Could happen to them some day - we're moving past such things here, in the USA, anyway. Don't want to dig up too many graves, for fear of what will be revealed in Iraq, etc. Not good for public morale and the war effort, and all that.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
32. Whatever it was, we need to IMPORT some of it -- !!
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. How exciting.
An Attorney General who will pursue an investigation.

I'm all tingly
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
3. What does that mean: 'Watergatestyle killing'
is that some British watergate or the American watergate of Nixon fame?

I don't remember any killings with Watergate, although I do remember something about reporter Jack Anderson thinking he was targeted.

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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I think it means they suspect there is a cover-up, like Watergate.
Guess the "scandal" is worse than the
actual fate of the man who was killed
cold-bloodedly, like an animal.

No WAY this guy killed himself by slitting
his wrists (badly), in the cold, in the
woods and bled to death without leaving
any BLOOD.

"Ask not for whom the aspens turn, Dr. Kelly,
they turn for you."
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Perhaps that it was ordered by the prime minister???
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MikeMc Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. E. Howard Hunt's wife, HS
Edited on Thu Sep-02-10 02:10 PM by MikeMc
Dorothy was the bag-woman who conveyed hush money to the 5 Watergate 'plumbers', when her husband and Liddy got indicted. 44 other people died in this commuter plane accident. Her death was discussed in the Nicholas von Hoffman and Garry Trudeau book "Trout Fishing in the Reflecting Pool, or The Fireside Watergate" (page 82):
"In the meantime, Mrs. Eduardo died in a great puff of $100 bills as her United Airline plane splattered short of the runway at Midway Airport, Chicago. United, unlike American Airlines, had failed to make a contribution and was experiencing a run of bad luck. Later on it was alleged that the plane had been brought down either by the Colson-Kalmbach faction or the Mitchell-Magruder clique. Enough credence was put in this fantasy that a late night emergency meeting was called in the EOB basement where H.R. Bob looked around the room at all His Leadership's advisors and asked, 'Has any of you killed anybody lately?' By way of answer, a voice from the ring of men asked, 'Does Wallace count as a kill?' "

"Newsweek", May 14, 1973, page 34 (2nd para in 3rd column):
"Months later, after the December ('72) plane crash that killed Hunt's wife as she carried $10,000 in $100 bills to an unknown rendezvous in Chicago, Dean's connection with the coverup became more intimate. Hunt, unnerved by his wife's death, sent his lawyer, William Bittman, to Chuck Colson with the message that 'something has to be done' to prevent a long jail sentence for Hunt."

The same "Newsweek" article, in the National Affairs section (Titled "John Dean Points a Finger") discusses Liddy's '72 campaign operations (p. 32, last para in 2nd column):
"while Liddy was talking about a mugging, bugging, kidnaping and even a prostitution squad."

Same article, discussion of Dean's black bag job on Hunt's office safe in the EOB (Exec. Office Bldg.), immediately after Hunt got indicted (Page 34, 2nd para in 1st column):
"Dean went through the contents of Hunt's safe with his assistant, Fred Fielding. They found a pistol, electronic bugging equipment, a psychiatric profile of Daniel Ellsberg and the phony cables tying the death of former South Vietnam President Ngo Dinh Diem to President John Kennedy."

Nixon's Attorney General, John Mitchell, stood by while his wife was drugged and kidnapped by Nixon operatives, who spirited her to CA, and held her there. One of her captors was a man named Stephen King, which is where the famous author got his pen name. Ted Bundy was investigated for his Watergate-related activities on behalf of the GOP in CA, well before he was busted as a serial killer. Another fascinating Watergate vignette was Colson's congressional testimony that he was joking about his plan to firebomb the Brookings Institute.

In Congressional testimony, and his book "The Ends of Power", H.R. 'Bob' Haldeman said that Nixon told him to stonewall the investigation of the Watergate break in. Nixon ordered Haldeman to tell investigators to back off or else the "Mexican stuff" or "Bay of Pigs" stuff "will come out". When asked what the wacky President meant, Haldeman said that Nixon "was actually referring to the Kennedy assasination." ("Deadly Secrets", by Warren Hinckle, p. 417.) DNC Chair Larry O'Brien, whose offices were burglarized and (re-)wiretapped in the Watergate office complex, had previously been part of the inner circle of John Kennedy's Administration (sometimes called the 'Irish Mafia').
After his plane crash and Chappaquiddick car crash in '69, Ted Kennedy wasn't running for president in '72. This was the first (open) presidential election since '60 with no Kennedy running, but the Dems had made one of the Kennedys' closest confidants the party Chair for the '72 election. Liddy's excuse for the 'Third rate burglary' was that they were trying to get evidence that the Dems were running a prostitution ring out of Watergate, but given Liddy's own 'prostitution' squad, and the prostitution/blackmail operation the repugs were caught running during the '72 Democratic Convention in Miami, Liddy's statement is a typical example of repug 'projection'. Haldeman was embittered, but correct. The GOP wanted to know how Dems were going to use repug involvement with the Kennedy assassination to go after the GOP and reclaim the White House.

Post-Watergate, several governmental reform hearings were held to clean up our Watergate-tainted government (the Pike Committee, the Church Committee, the House Select Committee on Assassinations). A lot of high profile witnesses were murdered before testifying, including Sam Giancana, John Roselli, George de Mohrenschildt, etc. Likewise, there were dozens of un-natural deaths that occurred among witnesses to the JFK murder, starting the day of the assassination, continuing all through the Watergate era, and some of the same JFK witnesses were among the people killed when called to testify at post-Watergate reform hearings. The JFK assassination and the post-Watergate hearings were the book-ends to Watergate itself. Lawyers who were involved in the Warren Commission and who represented 'lone nuts' like Ruby, Bremer, James Earl Ray, Sirhan Sirhan, turned up as lawyers defending Nixon's staff of Watergate offenders. (Melvin Belli, J. B. Stoner, F. Lee Bailey, spring to mind, but you can get a lot more names by reviewing the Ervin Committee hearings and the criminal cases against Nixon's Watergators.)

It's easy to see how a British national might have a different perception of Watergate killings than Americans have. Their press doesn't have the same pressure on it that ours does, since our 'History is written by the winners'. Their outside view of this American scandal is less obstructed than ours is by murderous big money repug criminals and their flunkies.



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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
37. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. Maybe it refers to the 'suicide' of CIA member Gus Weiss
who was found dead in a service entrance to the Watergate Complex in DC? The story barely made the news at the time and considering he was an adviser to four presidents, Carter, Ford, Nixon and Reagan, you would have thought it should have received a fair amount of coverage.

I posted a link in a comment below. It is hard to find links to this story, most have disappeared, not that there many to begin with.

He had started speaking out against the war and died in November 2003. The 'watergate killing' reference might have been to his death?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
33. Another Watergate notable was Martha Mitchell, who died in '76 at age 57 -- !!!
Keep in mind we had a lot of "cancer" deaths in seeming cover ups beginning with

assassination of JFK and through Watergate --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2255636
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MikeMc Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-05-10 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. Thanks
For the link to the '04 discussion. Interesting.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. FINALLY.
better late as all hell than never, i suppose.

K&R

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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
7. and k & r! nt
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
8. They should stick "Lord" Hutton in the jail for attempting
to deceive the public. Why on earth would any info need to be secret for 70 years?
The former inquest reeks of a cover up.
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
9. Who was the American that was murdered around the same time that was ruled a suicide?
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Wasn't it the guy they tried to pin the anthrax attack on, Dr Ivans?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. We can't do that. We have to look forward as the same people who did it weasel their way back into
power.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Totally under the radar - thanks! nt
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Wow, good investigation and very interesting reading material.
Thanks for sharing!
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. You're welcome, the two links in the article, the WaPo link and the
Tennessean, are no longer workable links. And there was not much other reporting of the death at the time. So I was glad that the writer of the article I linked, had posted enough excerpts to give an idea of what was reported at the time. Two very strange suicides, along with Dr. Kelly's around the same and by people whose opinions would have had some impact. Gus Weiss IS mentioned for his intelligence work during the Cold War in the Wiki page I found that he was mentioned on. By all accounts he was an American Patriot. And that makes it all the more strange that he did not have the kind of funeral that people like him generally do, with a few dignataries attending. After all he worked under four U.S. presidents.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
34. Wasn't Ivins another questionable suicide -- ????
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
10. As a side note, I'm glad Blair referred to it
as "Watergatestyle" and not some other Orwellian version of a (fill in the blank gate) scandal.

I believe this morphing of the word "gate" for every scandal under the sun diminishes the import, danger and travesty of the Watergate scandal.

Thanks for the thread, Turborama.

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smiley Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
11. but we don't believe in conspiracy theories
... here in america - or on DU

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Evasporque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. Bushco and his Blackwater buddies...
No doubt will appear somewhere in there...
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MikeMc Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Polanski's newest film is all over this issue
The Ghost Writer, with Ewan McGregor and Pierce Brosnan.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Ture and it got some great reviews airc. Makes you wonder if
that was the reason for dragging up that old case, to discredit him and the film?
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MikeMc Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Thanks for your post 18, S 1
I don't think there is an excuse for Polanski's behavior decades ago, but his movies have been outstanding.
I thought that it was interesting that RP co-wrote and filmed a movie about Blair getting pursued for extradition in an international criminal case for supporting l'il bush's CIA war, and before the movie was released, RP gets pursued for extradition in an international criminal case. It's icing on the cake that Iraq War profiteers at Halliburton and Blackwater are both under investigations for Child Prostitution.

Incidentally, (sorry no citation on this) Tate and Polanski didn't just have dinner in LA with RFK, the night before the assassination. They were his LA Campaign Chairs. The same cops that botched the RFK assassination investigation went on to botch the Manson murders. (Officers from the unit that has been called variously the Hat Squad, or Red Squad, or Special Unit Senator (SUS), or Criminal Conspiracy Section (CCS).) Not just the same squad, the same individuals. And "an officious policeman wouldn't let a priest in to administer the last rites to Senator Kennedy. Mrs. Kennedy identified herself and pleaded with him to let Father Mundell in ... 'But I'm Mrs. Kennedy. she said. 'I'm a policeman.' At that, she hit him. He hit her, and Kennedy's press secretary, Frank Mankiewicz, and somebody else hit the cop." -- From "Who Killed Bobby?" by Shane O'Sullivan, p. 31-2.

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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-02-10 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Certainly I agree, there was no excuse for
his behavior. But it's interesting that that U.S. government was not going out of their way to pursue him and he had traveled freely back and forth from Switzerland for years without being apprehended.

It's just interesting that as soon as the movie came out, they had a sudden interest in this old case.

I did not know about Polanski and his wife working for RFK. I do know he was wrongfully called a suspect in those murders and was very bitter about what he was put through over that for a long time.

I had no idea about that incident with Mrs. Kennedy either. No wonder she said she was leaving the U.S. because 'they are killing Kennedys'.

Thanks for the information. I will check out that book ....

I doubt his movie will be available in the U.S. though ....
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MikeMc Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I already rented it thru mail rental
Edited on Fri Sep-03-10 02:57 PM by MikeMc
and watched 2 x.

I think RP got entrapped in a sting operation in this last apprehension for extradition.

I didn't know he was a suspect in the '68 assassination. Thanks. I'll keep on the lookout for info there.

Speaking of widows, when Congress voted to provide the spouses of dead Presidents Secret Service protection, for life or until the spouse re-married, Jackie married Aristotle within the week. The Betty Shabazz death was clearly an assassination, and her grandkid is innocent.

The O'Sullivan book is worth a read (Union Square Press, NY, 2008), but missing some info. (Morton Downey, Jr.'s role at the Ambassador Hotel, Noguchi's 'inappropriate smiling' at the prospect of doing the RFK autopsy, the photo of T. Cesar's clip-on tie laying by Kennedy's right hand (after the shooting) is cropped out, etc.) I've never seen one comprehensive work on RFK's murder that didn't have bad stuff in it or good info missing.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Just a correction. Roman Polanski was suspected of the Manson
killings, including his wife's. I think you thought I meant RFK?

I am not familiar with the other issues you mentioned.
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MikeMc Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. My mistake. I see you said 'murders'
I misread it as 'murder'. Nice talking to you.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. I didn't know that either ... though was rather a military style operation ....
according to Mae Brussel --

Thanks to you both for all the info --

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MikeMc Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-05-10 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Mae Brussell's Research is Fantastic.
I used to listen to her first run broadcasts from '86 to '88, when I lived in Santa Cruz. I heard her last broadcast before she was threatened off of the air, a few months before her cancer death. Never trusted John Judge, who took over her hard copy archives, because I noticed that he mentioned her a lot on his tapes and broadcasts, and she never mentioned him. Her family trusted him, I guess.

She was great because she didn't just spin some wild yarn that could be easily dismissed as 'conspiracy theory', she always gave you mainstream sources to look up for hard-copy substantiation of her assertions. And she broke the Iran-Contra story 6 months before the Lebanese magazine Al Shiraa broke it.

She recommended some books in her last broadcast, and her #1 recommended title was "All Honorable Men" by James Stewart Martin (Little, Brown & Co., Boston, 1950). Tough title to get, but worth the read. It is subtitled 'The Story of the Men on Both Sides of the Atlantic who Successfully thwarted Plans to Dismantle the Nazi Cartel System'. Mr. Martin was Chief of the Justice Dept.'s Economic Warfare Section until Dec. 1945, and Chief of the Decartelization Branch OMGUS (Office of Military Government for Germany, U.S.), until he resigned in 1947.

Mae said that book was the key to everything she broadcast about. Incidentally, when I tried to get the book from the library, the computer referred me to 2 other titles with the same name, one by former DCI William Colby (published 1978). Mr. Martin's book had an interesting bit about Allen Dulles' two jobs during WWII in Switzerland, when he was a lawyer for a banking firm that was helping the nazis make money in America. He was simultaneously the head of the OSS in Switzerland. Of course he went on to head the CIA 'til Kennedy fired him, then he got to sit on the Warren Commission with a big smile on his face (seriously, check the photos). (The companies are J. Henry Schroder Banking Corporation, Sullivan and Cromwell law firm, and General Aniline & Film Corp. of Binghamton, NY. (pp. 67-68 in Martin's book). ) Great piece on p. 296 about the Big 8 financial units in the US economy. The exact same cast of characters that Huey Long was lambasting regularly in his stump speeches.

Have a good Labor Day, d&p.
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Evasporque Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. wow....just like old DU times....
:sniff:

talkin' cloak and dagger conspiracy...
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MikeMc Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-03-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I'm not out of line though, Ev?
Mostly cited sources, except on the identity of RFK's L.A. campaign co-chairs. I read a ton of books on the subject ~ 25th anniversary, but they were mostly library books, that I don't possess. I apologize for lack of citation on that one, but that't the kind of fact that sticks in the old memory bank, so I felt the strong need to make the assertion. Admittedly, it's like the last several hundred unbacked assertions the GOP has recently made, the difference being that theirs are immediately exposed as lies that they told for political gain, and they keep repeating the lies after they are disproved.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-06-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #27
41. Nice try.
Fail.
BHN
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-05-10 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
40. Any one here remember Dr. Meryl Nass on Kelly and the Hadron connection?
She has been on the Kelly "suicide" ever since it happened...
She posted to DU after I wrote her, years ago- I'll see if I can
find some of her comments and links in the archives...
BHN

Saturday, August 28, 2010
David Kelly, A Textbook Suicide? Mail and Independent
Hmmm. What exactly is a textbook suicide, Dr. Nicholas Hunt? The most common suicide in males would be associated with alcohol excess and a gun death. Suicide attempts do frequently involve use of more than one drug in large quantities, but I have never seen someone try drugs and cutting an artery at the same time. If Kelly died of blood loss, which seems very unlikely, the blood had to go somewhere, but it hasn't been found.

So if he didn't die from blood loss (you have about a gallon of blood per person, and roughly more than half needs to be lost before you die... we frequently see patients with more than half gone from gastrointestial blood loss and they almost always live) and the blood levels of drugs were way below fatal levels, what did cause Dr. Kelly's death? If he died of a cardiac arrest due to blood loss, there needs to be evidence to support the diagnosis.
http://anthraxvaccine.blogspot.com/2010/08/david-kelly-textbook-suicide-mail-and.html

Much more continued at link-


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