Springfield minister plans to also burn Quran to mark the 9/11 terrorist attacks

[Bragi]

Source: WREG.COM Memphis

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — A Springfield minister says he also plans to burn a Quran on Saturday to mark the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

The Rev. Bob Old told The Tennessean the Rev. Terry Jones of the Dove World Center Outreach in Gainesville, Fla., is doing the right thing by burning the Quran, and so he's going to do likewise.

Jones' plan to burn Qurans on Saturday has caused a furor of opposition, including an urging from President Barack Obama to call off his plan.

However, Old says not only does he plan to burn the Quran, but he intends to post a video of the burning book online.

Read more: http://www.wreg.com/news/sns-ap-tn--springfieldminister-quran,0,2432212.story

---

This was inevitable. The time has come for American leaders to explain to the Muslim world that freedom of speech means anyone can insult any religion they wish, and no-one has a right not to be offended by the lawful free speech of others.

[Brickbat]

1. He wants a ticket on the gravy train, too. He's no dummy, that Rev. Old.

[FedUp_Queer]

18. Wait a minute...

You mean this is all about money?

[Brickbat]

22. Just a thought.

[Brickbat]

21. Whoops.

[bushisanidiot]

2. There will be many racists burning books in this country on Saturday

they just aren't advertising it.

Fucking IDIOTS.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

28. Technically its not racism...muslim is not a race

[golddigger]

3. The cockroaches will be coming out of the woodwork.

[BrklynLiberal]

4. Insanity is contagious....

Especially if there is money to be made thru it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9102340

[asjr]

5. Lemmings

[Bragi]

6. Now this: ""Burn the Stars and Stripes Day"

A radical Islamic activist and lawyer in the U.K. has called on Muslims worldwide to burn U.S. flags outside American embassies on Sept. 11, a "direct retaliation" against a Florida church's plan to burn Qurans on the same day.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20015919-503543.html

So when do American leaders stop trying to talk the Florida nutbar out of his stunt, and start explaining to the Muslim world how freedom of speech works in America?

Why wait until after the riots are happening?

[mbperrin]

10. What riot? They'll just be exercising their freedom of speech by

burning flags.

Perfectly acceptable.

[Bragi]

12. Because we both know what's really going to happen

So does the administration.

[Kweli4Real]

13. Okay, Let me in on what's going on ....

All I see is a "preacher" expressing his ignorance under the guise of his "religion" and the "Muslim World" reacting the same way the "real americans" in this country would react if someone decided to burn Bibles.

But I'm sure you will inform me as to the "fact" that this is all a part of the "Socialist super-secret Muslim African interloper's" plan to destroy america.

[Bragi]

15. No, that's not it at all

When I said we know what's going to happen, I meant that based on experience in previous instances where radical Muslims felt they were offended by someone or something, that they don't stop at engaging in legal and legitimate political protests (such as flag burning.)

[Binka]

27. Timothy McVeigh? n/t

[amandabeech]

60. Let the Muslims burn bibles. Then things will be even.

Seriously, the government cannot treat religions differently, no matter how noxious they are, under the First Amendment.

It is the responsibility of the police and then the courts to deal with any riot.

Really, our Constitution sets almost no limits on any kind of speech or conduct expressing ideas.

What Pastor Jones is doing is unwise, but legal under the Constitution.

Many people thought that the "ground zero" Muslim center could be built on that property under the Constitution, but that building the center would turn out to be unwise.

What's the difference?

[mbperrin]

66. David Koresh?

Ted Kaczynski? Charles Manson?

[SpiralHawk]

11. Thanks a pantload, Republicon faux 'christians'

You are stirring up a Giant Diaperload of hate, vitriol, and retaliation against America and our American sons and daughters in uniform.

Sooooo republicon. Soooo un-American.

[mike r]

7. Obama, Hillary, The Vatican: Please call Reverend Old Bob ASAP

and implore him not to do it!

What a lame copycat.

[sinkingfeeling]

8. But Bob won't get the media attention that Terry's getting.

[Trajan]

9. You dont think they have already been doing this ?

It was your brilliant innovation ? ....

How does the saying go ? ... "THANK GOD YOU'RE HERE !"

Sheeesh .... God's gift to wisdom ....

[ProgressiveProfessor]

31. One of Phelps's evil spawn claim they have already done this

[sofa king]

14. Area Man Plans to Pee on Springfield Minister's Grave, Waits Patiently

[Bragi]

16. +++!

[Turborama]

17. Anyone has a "right" to be offended. There's no international law against feeling offended.

Even if there is an American law that allows Americans to "offend" 1.5Billion people in any which way they choose.

[Bragi]

19. Agreed. /nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

30. The more correct statement is no one has the right not to be offended

Some whine about it, but most figure out how to get along with it.

American law allows freedom of speech that sometimes offends. Its what allows us to protest against things including our government. Its a good thing overall.

[Xithras]

20. Much of the Muslim world doesn't much care about your free speech rights.

Just look at the hubub over a few cartoons and a couple of web movies critical of their faith. After the cartoon thing, you had world leaders proclaiming that there should be a limit on free speech, and there was a real movement within the U.N. by a number of nations (all Muslim-majority) to make the defamation of a religion an internationally prosecutable offense.

American style free speech is largely limited to America.

[Bragi]

24. Agreed

But it also explains why what Jones is about to do does not reflect the views of the government, or most Americans.

That's reality, and it's all we got here.

I would also observe that I';m not sure that "American style free speech is largely limited to America."

I believe that free speech rights prevail in just about all liberal democracies, though I concede I'm no expert on that.

[Xithras]

61. I don't know of many countries that take the broad view that the U.S. does.

Hate speech laws are the simplest example. In the UK, you can be imprisoned merely for using a racial epithet, if your victim decides to push it. Same goes for most of Europe.

The speech is "free", except in the areas where the government has decided to place "public good" above individual rights.

The United States is the only liberal democracy that has no hate speech laws of any kind. Here, only speech that acts as an incitement to a crime is prohibited.

There is a reason why there are no Rush Limbaugh's or Dr. Laura's in Europe. Dr. Laura would have been arrested if she'd pulled her "Ni***r, Ni***r, Ni***r" stunt in London.

[MikeW]

63. most countries dont have a strong constitution

[ProgressiveProfessor]

29. As a progressive I wish they would spread further. Offense is often a motivator for change

[opihimoimoi]

23. WHAT IS IT???" THEY WANT WAR??? They obviously don't care about Peace

Its not how we can live in Peace...its about living in FEAR and Conflict

Take that POS to Gitmo too...

[thereismore]

25. There will be more Koran burnings without much publicity. I doubt that God cares

either way - only people do.

[struggle4progress]

26. Quran burning condemned, but Springfield minister to burn copy, too

... Book burning is a cowardly act by those afraid that their beliefs aren't strong enough to attract people if they are allowed a choice," said Warren, author of The Purpose Driven Life ...

"If they want to have their religion, they can have it somewhere else," said Old, former pastor of First Baptist Church in Joelton and Academy Heights Baptist Church in Gallatin, which merged with another church. He no longer has a congregation and instead runs an evangelical ministry called Disciples of Christ.

News of the local Quran burning angered the Rev. Larry Herbert of Faith Covenant Church in Springfield. He dismissed it as a publicity stunt.

"The guy is a nut," Herbert said ...

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100909/NEWS01/9090347/2067

[ProgressiveProfessor]

32. 2nd US Pastor Announces Plans to Burn Koran on September 11th

Source: Cleveland Leader

Rev. Bob Old of Springfield, Tennessee, has announced that he too plans to set fire to a Koran at his home on Saturday, and the post a video of the holy Muslim book burning online.


Read more: http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/14609

---

And the madness spreads

[xchrom]

33. Oy - what a mess. Nt

[Windy]

34. I predict that because Obama has condemned it and asked for the burning not to go forward

that you will see many many more right wing loons holding the same kind of event.

[Bragi]

35. Dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4533685&mesg_id=4533685

[ProgressiveProfessor]

47. Good catch, I missed it

[DJ13]

36. .......

[BrklynLiberal]

39. Good one!!!!

[Bobbieo]

40. Anybody else would be busted for disturbing the peace. The press is to blame for spreading the news.

[pezDispenser]

50. very nice

[BrklynLiberal]

37. Just proves that insanity is contagious

[Blue Owl]

38. Jump on the manure spreader

...what a great fucking idea.

:eyes:

[AlbertCat]

41. And the madness spreads

The madness being..... RELIGION.

[madmax]

48. This is one of the many reasons I do not

believe in organized religion. It's insane and rarely are any minds changed.


'RELIGION IS LIKE A PENIS

It's fine to have one.

It's fine to be proud of it.

But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around.

And PLEASE don't try to shove it down everybody's throats.'

Lifted from another DU post. :)

[gratuitous]

49. Yeah, "serve one another in love": Madness!

:eyes:

[no_hypocrisy]

42. Back-up fire in case Jones decides against his.

[The Northerner]

43. Hooray! More people willing to stir up trouble and direct anger towards the US

Haven't these fools ever heard of the term 'blowback'?

Sometimes I wish that September 11 would pass already so that fewer pieces of trash will consider doing more stupid things.

[auburngrad82]

44. What would happen if someone burnt a Bible next to where he's burning the Quran? nt

[madmax]

45. Now there's a thought.

Depending on the number of attendees - a mini or large riot.

[totodeinhere]

46. The US military has burned a whole stash of Bibles in Afghanistan.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/qzoaxa

Yet did we see violence from Christian extremists over that? No we did not. The responsibility for any violence lies with the perpetrators of the violence. There is no excuse for violence no matter what book is burned.

[madmax]

51. Agreed

But, turn a bunch of assholes loose and you're going to get violence. I have no doubt that the good Rev. is trying for just that situation.

[Turborama]

52. If the Qu'rans weren't burned would there be any violence?

I'm getting sick and tired of the amount of times I'm reading people making excuses for and siding with this extremely provocative act.

[totodeinhere]

53. Why was there no violence on the part of Christians when bibles were burned in Afghanistan?

We are not making excuses for anything. In fact I have said that I wish they would not go through with it. But I am tired of the hypocrisy that seems to give violence coming from Islamic extremists a pass when in similar situations Christians do not resort to violence.

[Turborama]

54. I don't care. Two different religions, two different reactions.

That's the reality of the situation.

BTW that's total bullshit that "violence coming from Islamic extremists is getting a pass". It's a predictable event that we know will happen. Nothing you nor I can do will stop them. This fucking dangerous lunatic asshole "pastor" can.

[totodeinhere]

55. Thank you. No we know exactly where you stand. You don't care.

That is very telling. You are holding Christianity and Islam up to different standards. That's rank hypocrisy.

[Turborama]

59. No, I'm saying they are different religions.

And there are different predictable responses. Just stating facts.

[Nihil]

65. Three part answer:

> Why was there no violence on the part of Christians when bibles were
> burned in Afghanistan?

1) Most of the Christian extremists are in America.

2) Most Americans did not know that the Bibles were burned (by their own troops).

3) The people who match the subsets of #1 & #2 couldn't find Afghanistan on a map,
much less travel there to protest.


> I am tired of the hypocrisy that seems to give violence coming from Islamic
> extremists a pass when in similar situations Christians do not resort to violence.

That has only been true (i.e., the excess of Islamic violence over Christian)
over the last couple of decades. Before that, it was the "damn heathens" that
were on the receiving end of collective punishment for any perceived sleight
of the Christian viewpoint - centuries of it.

Also bear in mind that there was a lot of intra-Christian violence and far more
intra-Islam violence than Muslim vs Christian (i.e., not between Christian/Islam
and A.N.Other religion but between sects of the same religion).


> We are not making excuses for anything.

You are making excuses for your lack of knowledge about history before the
latest round of "Pop Idol" and for your objection to American Exceptionalism
being overridden. The rest of the world isn't buying it.

[judesedit]

56. Boo...Just another UNpatriotic UNAmerican ASSHOLE!

I guess the world's full of them. Sorry to say.

[damntexdem]

57. And how will they react when people start burning bibles in retaliation?

[JerseygirlCT]

58. They're like cockroaches nt

[Tx4obama]

62. And now a THIRD nutty pastor Fred Phelps sez he'll burn Qurans

Westboro Baptist Church Fred Phelps says he will burn Qurans if Terry Jones doesn't
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4534577

[primavera]

64. Do you think explaining it would make any difference?

Every newspaper on the planet has been running stories for the last week over how every leader secular and spiritual has been calling upon nutjob Jones to call off his stunt. If some Muslims haven't discerned from all of those stories that these wackos are acting independently of any official endorsement, do you really think they're going to be impressed if Obama addresses them on the subject of first amendment rights?

[Bragi]

67. Yes

I expressed my views on where I think we're now at here:

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9108319&mesg_id=9108503>