Clinton says Mexico drug wars starting to look like insurgency

[harvey007]

Source: LA Times

Her comments reflect a striking shift in public comment by the Obama administration about the violence and come as U.S. officials weigh a large increase in aid to Mexico to help fight the cartels.

-----

Also Wednesday, the mayor of a town in the relatively tranquil state of San Luis Potosi was gunned down in his office, the third Mexican mayor to be executed gangland-style in three and a half weeks. Alexander Lopez, 35, was shot to death midday by a man who burst into City Hall in the town of Naranjo, where Lopez had served as mayor for 11 months, local officials said. He was sitting at his desk when shot to death.

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-fg-mexico-insurgency-20100909,0,7691969.story

[aquart]

1. We can't afford to have Somalia at our border.

Of course, we could legalize and destroy their profits.

[RKP5637]

2. Yeah, our war on drugs works so well, like the rest of our wars on this or that. n/t

[DeSwiss]

3. K&R

Starting to look like an insurgency?

- Looks like Mexico needs a Surge™. I'm sure we can help them with that......

[lib2DaBone]

4. Good..quit giving Mexico Millions$$ for the WOD.

Legalize it .. fire the DEA... bring sanity to the WOD

[EFerrari]

5. Our fake drug war policy isn't working, let's escalate it!

:wtf:

[Redstone]

6. "Starting to look like?" Where have they BEEN?

Redstone

[Vincardog]

7. It is not an insurgency when OUR side sends out death squads or targets union and community

organizers THAT is the WOD. As well as bringing them Democratic principals
like making the world safe for multinational corporations.

[madrchsod]

9. good point and....

nafta has worked so well for their side too.....not

[Redstone]

13. So that excuses those murderous, heroin-dealing scumbags who have

turned Mexico into a modern version of Beirut in the 1980s?

Redstone

[madrchsod]

8. 26,000 people dead and it looks like an insurgency?

what planet has she been living on?

[Adsos Letter]

10. From the LA Times article...

~snip~
"Administration officials have said in recent days that despite the financial burdens of two other wars, they are considering a sizable increase in spending on the anti-drug war, as well as other improvements to the U.S. counter-narcotics security program."
~snip~

~snip~
"Eric Olson of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars' Mexico Institute said he senses from conversations with administration officials that "the administration still seems handcuffed by the lack of reliable partners at the operational level."
~snip~

~snip~
"Pena said that the Mexicans, who have lost an "astronomical" number of police officers and soldiers, may be simply cautious when they decide not to use U.S. information to attack the gangs. But at other times "it is completely corruption," he said."
~snip~

~snip~
"There is a very important difference between what Colombia faced and what Mexico is facing now," Poire said. "Perhaps the most important similarity … is the extent to which organized crime and narcotics-trafficking organizations in both countries are fed by the enormous and gigantic U.S. demand for drugs."
~snip~
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-fg-mexico-insurgency-20100909,0,7691969.story?page=1

The answer seems fairly obvious to me: there are undoubtedly sincere people working to fight the cartels in Mexico, but how much of our funding goes to legitimate, as opposed to corrupt, entities?

The Mexican authorities identify America's drug hunger as the source of the cartels' power.

Repeal prohibition in the United States; put our money into education and treatment, and, to the degree to which we can identify uncorrupted institutions, help Mexico build economic stability that may even reduce the number of illegal entries into the US.

[Redstone]

14. I gotta agree with you. The government stomped the shit out of the cartels

in Colombia, so they just picked up and moved to (and ruined) Mexico.

That's the root of the matter.

I'd rather that we just killed all of the murderous sons of bitches, but we can't. So your idea of choking off the problem at the end of the pipeline makes sense.

This country spends billions each year dealing with heroin addiction anyway, so what would a few billion more mean if it was legalized and agressively treated? A hell of a lot less than what we spend jailing people who use heroin, I'd bet.

Redstone

[KamaAina]

11. How convenient! We won't even have to fly tens of thousands of troops overseas.

:eyes:

[Uncle Joe]

12. This seems to be the straitjacket answer to everything.

Clinton compared the conflict in Mexico to Colombia's recent struggle against a drug-financed leftist insurgency that, at its peak, controlled up to 40% of that country. She said the United States, Mexico and Central American countries need to cooperate on an "equivalent" of Plan Colombia — the multibillion-dollar military and aid program that helped turn back Colombia's insurgents.

And this is the fundamental mis-perception; which is at the root of the ongoing insanity.

"There is a very important difference between what Colombia faced and what Mexico is facing now," Poire said. "Perhaps the most important similarity … is the extent to which organized crime and narcotics-trafficking organizations in both countries are fed by the enormous and gigantic U.S. demand for drugs."

Organized crime and narcotics trafficking organizations aren't fed by the enormous and gigantic U.S. demand for drugs, they're fed by our insane drug policies; turning what should be educational, medical and/or personal privacy issues in to family destroying, society eroding criminal ones.

This isn't a case of what came first the chicken or the egg?

The so called "War on Drugs" here in the "land of the free" came thousands of years after humanity first began using drugs to alter perception. The current short sighted, dysfunctional, nonsensical, non-humanistic policy originally seeping from the loins of a corporate supremacist as a means to eliminate legitimate competition so that he could corner the market, has only served to poison our society and the poison is spreading.

Thanks for the thread, harvey.

[G_j]

15. Hillary Clinton: Mexican drugs war is Colombia-style insurgency

Source: Guardian UK


Hillary Clinton: Mexican drugs war is Colombia-style insurgency

US secretary of state angers Mexican politicians and raises indignation with idea of sending in American military

Rory Carroll, Latin America correspondent

Hillary Clinton has sparked anger in Mexico by comparing its drug-related violence to an insurgency and hinting that US troops may need to intervene.

The US secretary of state said Mexico's level of car bombings, kidnappings and mayhem resembled Colombia a generation ago. She floated the prospect of US military advisers being sent to Mexico and central America.

"It's looking more and more like Colombia looked 20 years ago, where the narco-traffickers controlled certain parts of the country," Clinton said at the Council on Foreign Relations in Washington. "These drug cartels are showing more and more indices of insurgencies."

Signalling growing concern at events south of the Rio Grande, with 28,000 dead in Mexico from drug-related violence in four years, Clinton said the Obama administration was considering a type of "Plan Colombia" for Mexico and central America where Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras are also plagued by drug-related violence.


Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/09/hillary-clinton-mexican-drug-war-insurgency

[Skink]

16. take them from afghanistan.

[Jackpine Radical]

17. OMG, No!

No, no, no!

[Bobbieo]

18. Yes on California Prop 19 - It's a start!!!!

[G_j]

20. completely under-reported, Clinton/Obama very much hawks on Columbian

policy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4015805

'Colombia-US base accord reached'

Source: BBC

Saturday, 15 August 2009 03:58 UK

Colombia says it has completed talks with Washington on allowing US troops to use seven of its military bases.

Under the deal, the US military will be able to operate on Colombian soil to tackle drug-trafficking and terrorism.

A number of South American countries have condemned the plan and Argentina has said the bases are "not helpful".

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has expressed fears the move would amount to preparation for an invasion of his country by US forces.

<snip>

"This agreement reaffirms the commitment of both parties in the fight against drug-trafficking and terrorism," the ministry said in a statement.

[RainDog]

19. that would be an incredibly fucking stupid thing to do

which means this nation will probably do it.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[corpseratemedia]

21. I googled the Zetas and they were once special forces of the Mexican military trained by the US

How stupid for us to AGAIN make things even worse.

How can Clinton so knowingly lie with a straight face about this? Is it worth the funding of private contractors, all the tens of thousands of killings, omg, i just laughed again writing that..

(not laughing at the killing!!)

[G_j]

23. good find

I'll bet Democray Now! will be covering this.

[unkachuck]

22. "...28,000 dead in Mexico from drug-related violence..."

...."...indices of insurgencies."

....this is serious....this is a REAL threat to the US....

....I'm never enthusiastic about using the military, but if kidnappings, assassinations, car bombings or even IEDs should start taking hold in this country, we've got some real problems on our hands....not only problems from drug cartels but problems from the many home-grown whacko's that will join in....

....I can't see too many phony ways to corporate profiteer this....we had better help Mexico get a handle on this problem as soon as possible....

[Nihil]

30. "...indices of insurgencies."

The biggest "index of an insurgency" is when the US government starts
talking about sending in troops to "solve" or "help to control" the
insurgency.

(It's the equivalence of an investment bond maturing ...)

[applegrove]

24. Mexico needs to be a more equal society if they want to reduce crime. There needs

to be upwards mobility and good schools.

[timo]

25. i live on the border

I know many here will flame me for this, but Mexcio has already lost control, the cancer of corruption is in the bones, you cant trust the government of Mexico, you cant trust the cartels, the military branches are riddled with corruption as well.

flame away, I know what I see and I know whats going on 6 miles south of my house, people who claim that the violence wont spill over...it already has the body counts climb higher daily!!

[starroute]

26. Even granting all that -- would sending US troops really help?

It hasn't done much for Columbia. It would cost us another small fortune. It would confirm world opinion of us as a global bully. And it would solidify the determination of other Latin countries to ally with one another and form relationships with China as a defense against the US.

So is that really the best alternative you can think of?

[justinaforjustice]

27. US Should De-Criminalize All Drugs, End Drug Cartels For Good.

It is U.S. consumption of illegal drugs which is fueling the corruption and drug-related violence in other countries throughout the world, including Mexico and Colombia. By de-criminalizing currently illegal drugs, all the profits would be taken out of the illegal drug business. The cartels would no longer have their vast profits with which to buy politicians and police or to fund their huge paramilitary operations. The U.S. is the cause of the massive corruptions and violence and we can end it all very simply by changing our laws.

[timo]

32. not anymore

the cartels are so deeply entrenched in a multitude of other endeavors...trucking, extortion,prostitution,human smuggling,stealing crude oil from pemex,selling knock off purses and watches, counterfeit pharma, cell phones etc... they will rage and wage bloody war over every little scrap they can, no doubt our druggy population fuels the fire for what goes on but they also play thier own part in it by allowing the corruption to take hold. with no middle class, it doesnt take much money to entice the lower class to want to take the risk to gain what is in their minds unimaginable wealth.

[timo]

31. nope

it wont help, who will you ask who to go after? there are a million different agendas...and the corruption is so deep that you wouldnt get the same answer twice...our troops there would be a waste of time and money.

the only alternative I can think of is to pull back to our south wall and do what we can to keep it down to a dull roar here.

the millions we send there are wasted!!!

[Beacool]

28. The uber liberals will flame away, the rest accept the reality.

I've been to Mexico over the years many times. I also know plenty of Mexicans, and all agree that the violence, crime and corruption that Mexico is living right now is out of control. It's a darn shame because it's such a beautiful country with great people.

:-(

[EFerrari]

29. I don't see why any one should flame you.

Mexico has the corrupt government that Bush helped steal the presidency. We paid good money for that government and as usual, the people suffer from their proximity.

It's so sad.