Obama chides liberal critics to "wake up"

[No Elephants]

Source: Reuters

Obama chides liberal critics to "wake up"

By Matt Spetalnick

PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) -Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:59pm EDT

<snip>


"When I hear Democrats griping and groaning and saying ... 'the health care plan didn't have a public option', and ... 'the financial reform -- there was a provision here that I think we should have gotten better', or, 'you know what, yes, you ended the war in Iraq, the combat mission there, but you haven't completely finished the Afghan war yet', this or that or the other, I say 'folks, wake up', " Obama told wealthy donors at a Democratic National Committee dinner.

<snip>

"This is not some academic exercise," Obama said. "As Joe Biden put it, don't compare us to the Almighty; compare us to the alternative," he said to laughter.

While conservatives have been Obama's loudest critics, with some even branding him a socialist, liberal commentators have become more vocal in complaining he has not fought hard enough for some of their priorities.

They say he was wrong to drop a government-run insurance option from his landmark healthcare overhaul, should have gone further in punishing Wall Street and has not done enough to end the wars, reform immigration, battle climate change and close the military jail at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba."





Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68K0AU20100921

[Lost4words]

1. oh poo MBNA Joe and Barak are not happy with our performance

gosh you guys must feel so let down after all you have done for the country.

I am so sorry,......

imagine how we feel harvard

[saigon68]

59. Nov will be a blood bath just watch

[savalez]

120. I doubt it. Pubs agenda is too scary.

[totodeinhere]

141. Yes, but many voters couldn't even tell you what the Pubs agenda is.

They are angry at the slow growth of the economy and that's all that matters. They are lashing out without considering the consequences of doing that.

[intheflow]

163. As if the Pubs could tell you what their agenda is.

They got nothing. Which of course doesn't mean anything if you're talking about tea party voters who also got nothing - upstairs.

[JNelson6563]

154. Should we put you on suicide watch if it's not?

Sure seems like there are several DUers giddy at the prospect of Rethugs taking the government back, why is that?

Julie

[Techn0Girl]

206. Come on Julie - you know that's not true...

You know you know it.

No one here really wants Republicans in power. I lost my job, my income , my ability to earn a living diring the Bush years - and I was making 100 grand a year in 2000. By '03 I was homeless for 18 months.


But no one wants to be fooled again. Maybe people want to send a message?

You and I are on the same side I'll bet.
I'm guessing here that you are like a person who paid too much for a new car that turned out to be a lemon. Ever met some of those people - they defend that car like it was a point of honor. And it is ... kind of.

No one wants to be proven wrong.
No one wants to think of themselves as having been taken advantage of, Julie.

But a lemon is a lemon and no matter how much sugar you pour on it, one day you just have to realize that it's a sour fruit.

[No Elephants]

220. I'm so very sorry you've gone through all that. I hope things are at least somewhat better now.

I wish I could give you some comfort food or something.

[Techn0Girl]

236. Things are certainly better and thank you for asking :)

But.... I'm 54 and having trouble finding steady employment in the IT industry.

I just got laid off (again <sigh>) but at least have unemployment and am not homeless - but I'll tell you ...it's like sitting on the edge every day lately.

IT jobs went overseas.
Currently there are MORE H1B VISA IT WORKERS THAN THERE ARE UNEMPLOYED U.S. IT WORKERS.
Thank you Clinton and Bush - Obama has not stopped the flow at all.

The kind of jobs that I was making a nice living at (50K in 2000) are literally paying between 10 and 15 an hour now.

Will I be voting this November?
What do you think?


Thanks for asking about me though - appreciated :)

[No Elephants]

275. De nada. And again, I'm so sorry.

[Name removed]

247. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OnyxCollie]

217. Where have I heard that argument before?

Oh, yeah, I remember.

It was when RWers said liberals want Al Qaeda to attack.

Have you no sense of decency, Julie?

[JNelson6563]

248. You have missed the mark with this one.

I won't break the rules and call out anyone but take a look around friend. A good, hard look.

Julie

[DeSwiss]

283. Not me.

- But I am waiting for the Democrats to take the government back. Some day......

DeSwiss

[martymar64]

310. I did not detect any joy in his statement.

The prospects that he describes are very real. Maybe if the Administration actually stood up and fought for things like the public option or pursuing charges against bush/cheney and behaved like progressives instead of straining themselves reaching across the aisle and falling for claptrap like "bipartisanship", then there would not be any enthusiasm gap now.

Yet they want to blame us for their own failures. It wasn't us who gave away the store in health care reform negotiations before the negotiations even began.

We're not happy that there will be more rethug idiots in congress this election year and for you to imply that any of us are happy at this prospect is dishonest and uncalled for. The rethugs won't take the government back though.

[windowpilot]

321. End game for capitalism.

Eradicate the fascist and burn the white house down ~ Queensryche

[PerceptionManagement]

318. Hippie punching from Obama. De-motivate the base for Nov.

[mdmc]

152. 1

[LaloBorges]

200. Obama is correct

Why do we criticize the administration so much when the mess they are trying to fix was created by the other party. You can bring a building down in one day but it takes months to rebuild it.

Everyone talks about Obama not taking advantage of the "majority", what majority? Have you all forgotten about the "Blue Democrats" whom I think are nothing but repubs infiltrated in the Democratic party?

Think about it? Would you like the repubs to take control again? I don't think so.

Go out and vote and lets make sure we keep the democrats in control the alternative is not good, as a matter of fact, its terrible.

Support your Democratic party and stop complaining, it could be worst, it was worst.

[Lost4words]

257. I suspect your frame of reference is not the same as mine,

look around, democrats are not in charge now how can you say honestly they are?

[roguevalley]

207. why don't they just shoot us? this is amazing to me, the fools.

[barbtries]

2. i've been disappointed, but i have to say

i really like this president and i still support him all the way. i have to look at the alternative, and it chills my blood. and the problems run so, so deep.

[old mark]

5. I agree. My regret is that he has not done better, but he has at least moved

in a good direction and, yes, that alternative is scarey and I believe would really destroy this country.


mark

[AikidoSoul]

98. The alternative has already destroyed this country

Obama has the biggest mess in history to clean up. And no, he is not perfect but the alternative is pure fascism, pure greed, purely for the very rich.

We need to keep this in the forefront of our minds, and yes -- keep pushing for more changes for the public good.

[Ticonderoga]

103. The first change needs to be

peeling off the layers of corporate influence and corrupt congresspeople that write our laws pertaining to the mess we need to clean up.

[bkozumplik]

165. I dont think we are heading in the right direction on that score

that conversation has been conspicuously absent since the presidential election.

[old mark]

111. The GOP is just getting started - the criminals who went before are small time compared

to the insanity that is out there now...we have not even seen the beginning of their destructive capability.


mark

[OnyxCollie]

219. What makes you think we can go back?

If the fascists took control of the government with the blessing of the SCOTUS in Bush v Gore, what makes you think a democratic government could regain control without a coup?

Here we are wondering, "Why hasn't Obama done the things we expected him to do?" Perhaps it's time we realize we've crossed the Rubicon and there's no going back.

It's all an illusion.

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater." Frank Zappa

[Scuba]

20. Grudgingly agree....

But if he's gonna be castigated by the right anyway, why not do some of the things on which he campaigned??

[cstanleytech]

41. He has been trying to do some of them but unless he can get the votes

and support from the senate and congress alot of what he wants to do he just cant do and as we have seen from day 1 of his administration the republicans are doing everything in their power to hinder his efforts and undermine him before his re-election.
Now if he can manage to win another term I am hopeful he will tell the republicans to STFU and complete most if not all of his promises he made.

[SkyDaddy7]

84. You are correct...

We must be in this for the long haul & those who have quit after 18 months & want the Republicans back in power out of spite will get their wish...Then what?

[stuart68]

90. Oh please

The most powerful man in the world couldn't get his own party in line, adn somehow we shouldn't be complaining about it.

Only one place to affix blame for lack of progress. Leaders lead...

[No Elephants]

223. IMO believing that he cannot get his Party in line is giving him a huge benefit of the doubt.

See, for example, Reply ##s 175, 88 and 221 I think they've been doing pretty much what he wants, liberals more reluctantly than most, but, still, following the leader.

[BillH76]

261. Common theme in these posts....

...is that the Republicans are worse. Can't we do better than that? Can't we lean on the Prez to do better? Is it our fault that he hasn't he hasn't achieved what we wanted? Or is it the $20 million he got from Wall Street? Or is it both?

[cstanleytech]

271. His job is to try his best to lead our nation not our party.

[No Elephants]

278. Actually, it's both. A Democratic Presidential nominee is also official head of the Democratic

Party and remains so until someone else becomes Democratic Presidential nominee.

[cstanleytech]

308. Fine, I will rephrase it "His first and primary job is to lead our nation not our party"

[bkozumplik]

171. first you lead the charge, from the front

THEN you get people behind you. you dont lead from the back, expecting to get the herd of couchebag corrupt congressman to pave the way for you, because its not going to happen that way, ever.
Why do I have to explain this to the president of the United States? You'd think he'd have strategists to do this.

He has to LEAD first for people to follow him. Making pretty speeches then failing to lift a finger in the direction he made the speech conveys what exactly? Fill in the blank here.

Appointing trickle downers means, to me, he doesnt care.
Using the exact Bush drawdown policy and war policy means, to me, that he doesnt care.
Letting the bushes go meant he didnt care.
making health insurance mandatory but letting it be basically shitty care for what it costs you, means he doesnt care.

Show us the leadership, and we'll show you the votes. And he should also quit his whiny petulant bitching. People are pissed for a reason, and he should "wake up" to that fact.
With his inexperience, lack of strategy and weak triangulating cowardice, He's single handedly destroying what should have been a shining time of Dem power and reform. Yes theres a lot to do, but everyone knows that, which makes the fixes softballs. Reform was in the air, but he used the time to court repubs who would never side with him, and since then has given nothing but a sad string of half victories, that once you dig deeper, are more defeat than victory. (See health care reform, or Lilly ledbetter, or financial reform, for more details)

He needs to stop being such a used car salesman and try being a leader for a change.

[Scuba]

246. So let's work to get him a super-majority, plenty of Progressives, fewer...

...Blue Dogs. Then there will be no excuses. 2012 will hang in the balance.

[savalez]

186. I agree and you can say this over and over but some will not have it.

[BillH76]

260. Right. (n/t)

[Marnie]

I agree

So why has his admin continually insulted his most ardent voters from 2008?

[rfranklin]

135. Turn that around and you got it right...

We have been insulted as retards and told to go fuck ourselves.

We wanted real change not the tiny increments that are designed to keep the corporate contributions flowing.
(which, by the way, has not happened.)

[tularetom]

3. Um, HE actually said he would do a lot of that stuff

If anyone had unrealistic expectations, they got them by believing what the president himself said during the campaign.

[RedCloud]

80. he took his landslide mandate and bent over to the other side with it.

[mdmc]

153. 1

[budkin]

4. We're the ones that got you elected Mr. President.

Lest we remind you.

[dennis4868]

6. True

But can you stop fillibusters in the senate and make DINOs vote for progressive issues? Obama takes what he can get in connection with legislation because he has repubs and DiNOs who want him to fail. Why can't people understand this reality?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

10. he didn't even try.

Name one time he put the GOP's feet to the fire. Please. I would love to learn when that happened.

[pattmarty]

13. That's very true, BUT name one time that he even "pressured"............

...........Dems who were not supportive. That is why LBJ was a great President and this guy will ONLY be remembered as the first black President. A black Bill Clinton.

[dennis4868]

37. Didn't he get...

Dennis Kucinich to change his vote on health care? Plus. we don't know what goes on behind the scenes....he may have twisted alot of dems arms and we will never know!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

49. very true.

the tell all books won't start until 2010, anyway.

[GOTV]

64. Oh yeah, when they put the screws to liberals they make sure EVERYONE knows, but ...

... conservatives get pressured only behind closed doors.

That's what we're supposed to believe?

[RaleighNCDUer]

82. Well, that's the point, isn't it? Why twist Kucinich's arm, but NOT twist

Nelson's? Any pressure that's been applied has been for the LESS progressive position, the position that is least in alignment with what he campaigned on. It's always up to the left to capitulate, not the right.

[laughingliberal]

88. There's the problem, right there.

The pressure is always on the liberals and progressives to settle for less. I've heard not one story of a Blue Dog or New Democrat being pressured to vote for a bill while it was still acceptable to the left.

I found it very telling that the most forceful fight we saw Obama wage during the whole HCR debate was for the excise tax. That and the insistence it not add to the deficit were where he made a stand and refused to give ground. Had we seen that sort of tenacity about the PO, we might not have gotten it still but liberals would not be displaying the kind of skepticism we see now.

[No Elephants]

221. He put his foot down on drug re-importation, too. Again, wrong direction.

[dflprincess]

No, Dennis Kucinich always supported health care

Obama twisted his arm and got him to vote for an insurance bail out.

The question is, did Obama get that vote using pressure or making false promises?

[damonm]

73. "LBJ was a great President "? NO.

Here's why:
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/damonm/11

[pattmarty]

143. Nice try. Link to a piece YOU wrote, that is fucking priceless!............

.......listen ________, we would be talking about Johnson in the same way true liberals talk of FDR today if it were not for the Vietnam war. That WAS his downfall and if he would have kept to his honesty as he said in the Civil rights act he would be one of the "greatest" Presidents.

[damonm]

227. And you might note, in what I wrote...

That I would tend to agree with you, if it were not for Vietnam and the horrific fallout therefrom.
BUT -
Vietnam (based on a lie) led directly to the GOP takeover - I cannot and will not call someone "great" when they sent us down that road, which is what Johnson, however unwittingly, did.

[No Elephants]

224. War on Proverty Great Society (inc Medicare)Civil Rights, getting the nation past an assassination.

In your opinion, all that is wiped out by his listening to his Sec of Defense and generals re: escalation of the Vietnam War. You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree strongly.

[damonm]

228. Way to minimize Vietnam...

it wasn't JUST the escalation - it was the fallout. The splintering of the coalition FDR created, creating the "silent majority" that enabled the Rethuglican takeover so that they could unravel everything Johnson and FDR worked for - THAT is where Johnson is at fault, and why it trumps all the good he did.

[pattmarty]

241. You're not even calling the Vietnam war a mistake? You're JUST............

........questioning the "fallout"? You better actually READ history. The Civil Rights act led to the so called "silent majority" that began voting Republican for years, up to the very present. The Vietnam War actually had very little "fallout". Short term it hurt the military somewhat, though that was very short lived. I will ADMIT this about LBJ, that if it weren't for Vietnam, he would HAVE been remembered as the SECOND greatest President of the twentieth century.

[damonm]

253. You better actually read what I wrote.

I pointed out that Vietnam was based on a lie - CONSIDERABLY more than a mistake.
I've read the history, and I LIVED the damn history.
And if you actually think "The Vietnam War actually had very little 'fallout'", then it is YOUR history that is seriously deficient.

[No Elephants]

281. No, I did not minimize Vietnam. that's a flat out lie. And you go on to

blame Johnson for the Nixon-Falwell silent majority? LOL. Great reasoning power!

Sorry, damonm, but I don't care to dialogue with anyone who lies that I minimized Vietnam.

Go jerk yourself a soda.

[damonm]

315. Hmm... let's see...

you take a war Johnson lied us into escalating, and you call it "listening to his Sec of Defense and generals re: escalation of the Vietnam War" - this is like saying all Bush did was listen to HIS Sec of Defense, VP and generals re: Iraq.
You see, that looks a lot like minimizing to me, as you utterly gloss over the outright fabrication that was the "Tonkin Gulf incident".
Do you give Dumbya a similar pass for lying us into war?
I hope to God not.
I don't, and I won't give Johnson one, either. If I'm not going to give Bush a pass for lying 4000+ American troops to death, I am sure as HELL not going to give Johnson one for the 58,196+ that died for HIS lie.

And "LOL" all you want about the Silent Majority - I was there; I saw it happen. Wasn't funny then, either. Did Johnson CAUSE it? No. Did he create ripe conditions for it? Yes.

"Go jerk yourself a soda"...? That's all you got? Ooooo-kay. :shrug:

[martymar64]

311. I agree with you re: LBJ

He brought electricity to the Texas Hill Country among other things. He and his late wife are still highly regarded here in Texas. The Vietnam War destroyed him and I think it contributed to his early death. It was his biggest error and it cost the country dearly.
That being said, he was a great man that fought hard for his constituents while in Congress.

[Art_from_Ark]

320. I also agree about LBJ

I remember the Great Society. I'll always hold Johnson in high regard for that. And I think you are right about the Vietnam War and its contribution to Johnson's early death.

[Iowa]

184. Exactly...

IMO, Obama has diluted the Democratic brand name to the point where an Obama Democrat isn't too much different than a Nixon Republican in the 60s/70s on many domestic issues. And when a Democratic president sells out to the degree Obama has, it lowers the bar for the entire political spectrum and allows the Republican party of yesteryear to become outright insane and still win elections. So I would say that Obama's dismal performance will have detrimental effects far beyond his individual policy sell-outs, because he has helped to legitimize the nut-bag element in the Republican party and moved the entire political spectrum rightward. We may never recover from it; certainly not in my lifetime.

His worst sell-out was letting torturers off Scot-free, IMO. He has done plenty of things that are worthy of derision, but aiding and abetting torturers defines him in a way that can never be excused or legitimized. Someday, perhaps, civilized society and history will catch up with him as it has with others who participated in crimes against humanity.

[truedelphi]

196. Thank you for your reasonable assessment.

Obama deliberately set off with concessions before a discussion was hatched.

He ran around the nation to Town HAll meetings where his talking points were these:

"Uh no one even knows if the Public Option will be in the final bill. And it is only one tool in a tool box of tools we can consider...."

Can you imagine the Civil Rights Act if LBJ had run around the land asking segregationists what they wanted to see in the Bill? In an effort to be all bi-partisan and all.

[Recursion]

15. Torture is illegal, so I assume you don't mean that literally

How, pray tell, would he "put the GOP's feet to the fire"? Other than sending Rahm down Pennsylvania Ave to raise hell with his own party every now and then (which he's done), what can he do?

I feel like some people on here are blaming him because he can count to 60, which apparently a lot of this board can't.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

17. Well, one time comes to mind

As I now recall. He had a private meeting with Bitch McConnell about a month ago, and the next day, a dozen or so appointees were suddenly given the down or up vote. (I HATE that term, "up or down vote" - a GOP concoction that is used only when it suits them)

[Doctor_J]

39. Hey, why are you special?

I used the name Bitch McConnell a couple weeks ago, and my thread (it was an OP) got yanked.

:thumbsup:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

214. must be all the "special classes" I took in skule.

[izquierdista]

142. You could count to 90

And still lose. Maybe you should call the White House and see if they have a position for you.

[eyepaddle]

155. John Cole of Balloon Juice said (in exasperation)

"Never have I seen so many people when faced with the choice of losing a toe or a leg, opt to shoot themselves in the head."

Had I gotten my shit together in time to get an absentee ballot in time, I would have voted for Nader in 2000; I have learned my lesson. I will unfailingly support Democrats UNTIL the GOP actually returns to planet Earth or implodes into irrelevance.

Having the Democrats in charge can be exasperating, having the Republicans in charge will be disastrous.

[nyy1998]

26. Off the top of my head: Small Business Bill, Financial Regulation Bill, and Election Reform

He finally got the first 2 to pass through the Senate, but not having any luck with the 3rd.

[Gman]

56. When was the last time you did anything to help break the filibuster?

Did you make just one phone call? At all? Anything? Or did you just vote in 08 and expect the world to be laid at your feet?

[Bluenorthwest]

119. Yesterday you were castigating activists who went to Senator's

offices and tried to promote their position. You said they should shut up, that they were doing harm by adding pressure. You can not have it both ways. Not and be taken seriously.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

133. Ooops!

[Forkboy]

182. LOL

:)

[Gman]

183. No, yesterday I castigated people that wear dresses made out of meat

and they want to be taken seriously. Get in the game here.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

58. hear hear

[Marnie]

134. I'll grant you Obama does not want his presidency to be about race

but the Republicans have made it virtually all about race.
They have been ingenuous and creative to the max in tying virtually every word and act of Obama's to race. And have insulted American Blacks, through their attacks on Obama, hundreds of times a week for two years.

It is way past time for Obama to speak out about his mixed ethnic background and call the Republicans racists on a very personal level. And to directly tie the Republican party, by hame, and the Tea Party, by name, to the dishonor of their racism.

To shout to the world what it means that the Republicans are doing to this country by singling out his part African genetics as being an issue.

At least that way he can be seen standing up for the majority of American Blacks, most of whom are of mixed ethnic heritage.

If he is not willing to fight that battle, is there any battle he is willing to fight?

To continue to actively support him we need to see him draw a line in the sand and fight.

There are some things worth getting and staying angry for.

Put another way, why are Obama's mostly white progressives supporters, lke me (middle aged, white, female, born southern) more angry about racism against people of his shared ethnic background than he is? Why should we continue to care if he doesn't?

[nyy1998]

24. +1

[bvar22]

52. YES!!!! You CAN stop filibusters AND make DINOS vote FOR your agenda!

There are WAYS a President with a HUGE Popular Mandate for "CHANGE" can get what he wants!!!

A small minority of DINOS does NOT get to set the agenda.
He CAN make offers they can't refuse:

* If YOU block this, the White House doors WILL be closed to you and every single project in your district of state. We WILL use the bully pulpit to make sure your district (State) knows who to blame.

OR

* We WILL come to your district (state) and campaign AGAINST you. You will receive NO funding from the National Party. We WILL replace you.

Obama KNOWS how to do this.
He used these very same tactics AGAINST Progressive Reps when they balked at giving him more money for his WARS.

The Democratic Party Leadership could actually MAKE the Republicans filibuster, and then use ALL the weight of the Bully Pulpit to spotlight their obstruction.

But the very BEST way to get progressive items through the Senate is to:

1)Trashcan the "Comprehensive Package" approach
This makes it too easy for the Republicans to misrepresent what is IN the legislation, and condemn it as Big Government Takeovers or "Death Panels"

2)Break out the Good Pieces and bring them to The Floor as Simple, Clean, Easy to Read Bills for Up or Down Roll Call votes. No Amendments.
For Example, criminalizing the Pre-existing Condition Exclusion:
This could be presented as a simple One Page Bill posted to the Internet that everyone could read and understand.
Then LET the Republicans vote AGAINST it...on TV, and force THEM to defend their vote on EVERY talking head show!

3)After the legislative victory, put the next piece on the floor...simple, clean, easy to read.
Make the Republicans play defense!!!


...but the Democratic Party Leadership and President Obama know how to do this.
The problem seems to be WANTING to pass Progressive legislation.

[onpatrol98]

65. Break out the Good Pieces

"2)Break out the Good Pieces and bring them to The Floor as Simple, Clean, Easy to Read Bills for Up or Down Roll Call votes. No Amendments.
For Example, criminalizing the Pre-existing Condition Exclusion:
This could be presented as a simple One Page Bill posted to the Internet that everyone could read and understand.
Then LET the Republicans vote AGAINST it...on TV, and force THEM to defend their vote on EVERY talking head show!"

--------------------------------------------------

Excellent Point! I think the reason they don't do this...(Republicans AND Democrats) is because they want to hide something inside that they know we will not want.

I don't give a care if Republicans have to play defense or not. I think a lot of the health care debate was political theater. Democrats had the White House, Senate, and House. We should have been able to get ANY BILL WE WANTED. There are a million legitimate things we can blame republicans for...but a bad health care bill isn't one of them. The only REAL obstacle to a really good health care bill was other democrats. All Republicans had as a defense was talk.

We squandered a priceless opportunity. Deals with pharmaceutical companies....give me a break. I didn't see that one coming. My insurance premiums are going up as we speak.

The alternative (McCain) would have been disastrous. I did expect more from this President. But, he's still better than the alternative.

[Jackpine Radical]

83. While I generally agree with you, I would add

that one of the reasons I believe he dealt away not just single-payer, but the public option as well, is that he didn't want to trigger a massive "Harry & Louise-" style avalanche of insurance money running ads against him.

That and the fact that he had been the largest recipient of health insurance money in 2008 and didn't want to bite the hand that fed him so well.

[chervilant]

139. hmm...

Do you find it a bit ironic that we have come to this 'expected more, but it's still better than the alternative' position? It's like saying, "yeah, I lost my fingertips in that stupid meat grinder, but at least I have the rest of my hand!"

[bkozumplik]

180. hrm while I agree with the principle

Thats what they did with Ledbetter. They broke out just the statute of limitations extension from the rest of the bill (they called the remainder the "paycheck fairness act"-- the rest of the bill being the remedies and protection.. the teeth.. for the law, Then they passed the extension and shelved the rest. I assume they negotiated it away. Its dead.

So we got a hollowed our shell of a reform, which can be easily sidestepped in cases where it applies. If you are being sued in a case where ledbetter applies, the fines are still a joke and you can still retaliate against the employee for bringing it up. And you'd be within the law.

So not a half win, more like a 2% win. Sometimes you need to leave some detail in the bill for it to work.

[brettjv]

74. Excellent post ...

Total agreement :)

[Capitalocracy]

102. And may I point out

instead of doing this, the Democratic Party is REWARDING blue dogs with extra funding and campaigning in their states against progressive primary challengers, REGARDLESS of who would actually be more likely to win in the general election.

[bvar22]

126. You don't have to point that out to me.

I live in Arkansas.
The White House threw away that Senate seat because it might have gone to a Pro-LABOR Democrat.

[ProudDad]

170. Unfortunately, this would require Obama

to be something other than the Harvard Law trained corporate tool that he is...

And of course, in the Korporate States of Amerika, anyone who is NOT a corporate tool is "unelectable"...so he would not be the pResident if he weren't...

:hi:

[Iowa]

189. Well said. As usual, I agree with you 100%.

[Gman]

55. You think just getting someone elected means the work is over?

You are sadly mistaken.

[2Design]

7. easy to say when you are walking on easy street for the rest of your life n/t

[bowens43]

8. typical politician.......

promise the world and deliver next to nothing.....what a disappointment.

so much for change.....

[dennis4868]

42. When Obama made his promises...

on the campaign trail did he promise to complete everything in just 19 months? I did not hear that, did you?

[liberation]

60. Well, he also didn't promise to throw liberals under the bus either...

And yet...

BTW, the whole "not enough" time is already a rather useless meme, given that the issue Liberals have with most of Obama's policies is not their implementation time but their direction.

[laughingliberal]

123. +1000 nt

[Iowa]

194. Liberation answered your question. Did you read his reply? No? I'll repeat it...

"Well, he also didn't promise to throw liberals under the bus either... And yet... BTW, the whole "not enough" time is already a rather useless meme, given that the issue Liberals have with most of Obama's policies is not their implementation time but their direction."

Get it? It's not the implementation time - it's the direction.

[dennis4868]

251. But direction

Can take time also....sometimes you have to take baby steps to get in the right direction...just because the health care bill is not in the direction progressives want now does not mean it can't be improved at a later time when it will be politically possible to do....sometimes change takes baby steps, especially when you are dealing with obstructionist repubs and DINOs....

[Iowa]

262. Nonsense...

--Covering for torturers doesn't take time. You either prosecute torturers, or you don't.
--Retroactive immunity for corporations who illegally spy on American citizens doesn't take time. You either grant them immunity, or you don't.
--Appointing corporate whores to run your administration doesn't take time. You either do, or you don't.
--Appeasing right-wing loons, to the detriment of the country, and in the name of bipartisanship, doesn't take time. You either fight the loons (like Alan Grayson does), or you don't.
--Appointing a Cat-Food Commission to undermine Social Security doesn't take time. You either do, or you don't.
--Appointing a raging asshole like Alan Simpson to head your Cat-Food Commission (a man who describes SS as a "milk cow with 310 million tits"), and failing to remove Simpson, doesn't take time. You either do, or you don't.
--Escalating wars-about-nothing doesn't take time. You either do, or you don't.
--Allowing your Chief of Staff to refer to liberals as "retards" and keep his job doesn't take time. You either do, or you don't.
--Providing massive hand-outs to Wall Street bankers doesn't take time. You either do, or you don't.

I could go on with a much longer list, but this should be enough for anyone who even remotely espouses progressive, Democratic ideals. So do you get it now? It's not the implementation time, it's the direction.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

9. You mean - it's only been a nightmare? Oh, good.

For a while I thought I was disappointed in real life.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PNutt]

12. The Real Problem

Is that while most far left progressives will end up supporting the party in November, the more conservative left, and the independents who helped elect the President, may be so turned off by his lack of leadership on some key issues, that they will either not vote, or even worse, turn to the knutt suckers.

Mr. President, if you want to fire up those who elected you, do as you promised.......repeal DADT, force the issue on the Welfare For The Rich Tax Cuts, and campaign all out painting the GOBP into a corner from which they cannot escape. Mr. President, in order to fire up your base, you must first fire up yourself.

[Cherchez la Femme]

273. But using the "far" Left as scapegoats is just so darn funny!

Funny because it's true! :eyes:


Maybe yet some more derision or insults directed at a sizable portion of his own party will be enough reason for the others --centrists, Conservative Dems, Independents-- to vote for him?

But, as it is within basic Human Nature, I don't think many Independents will switch their registry to the Democratic Party

even if they DO laugh at his little jokes

because you see, and I'm especially thinking High School hi-jinks here, you may laugh at a negative class clown but that will also make you think 'if I join the organization of the subset he's deriding, next time he could be using ME as the butt of his jokes'.


Maybe the humor will get them to vote for him.

Or maybe the White House just really loves to dog Lefties.

[earthside]

14. It means November will be a disaster.

Even after the wake-up calls he heard at the CNBC townhall, it is apparent from his remarks later on at the Philly fundraiser that he just doesn't get it.

We voted for change in 2008 and I believe we were all prepared to fight with and for him when he got into the trenches to make real change.

And then ... he never got into the trenches. Instead he just kept bringing his Nobel Prize medal to a series or legislative wars on Capitol Hill.

The Repuglicans (especially the U.S. Senate Repuglicans) over and over again ran circles around him and stuck us with a deeply flawed health insurance law, a piddly Wall Street reform law, and, well, that's about it.

The stimulus bill was too geared towards business tax cuts and Obama never proposed paying for it by reducing the Pentagon's bloated budget. He didn't speed-up the withdrawal from Iraq and he actually adopted a "surge" escalation strategy for Afghanistan!

We voted for renegotiation of NAFTA ... we got nada. Indeed, we wanted banks busted-up and the rich taxed more and real energy legislation (not fraudulent 'cap and trade') ... and maybe worst of all, he betrayed America's teachers by actually being more supportive of Bush education policies than was Bush, himself.

President Obama now chiding us for "griping and groaning" because we are demoralized about his performance, means that he is sadly 'out of touch' with the deep economic pain and frustration that Americans of all kinds are feeling.

That means that November is going to be a wipe-out for Democrats because our President is going to keep floating above us, the unwashed "griping and groaning" masses.

[Riverman]

150. Its never been about race, its about Class Identity! Obama went to

private schools, was raised by a conservative bank manager grandmother, while his liberal mother was galavanting around the world (i.e.Indonesia)saving the natives, neglecting her offspring (that's what limo libs do). Then he ended up at Columbia and Harvard. He likes the comfort provided by the upper classes, he took his first campaign money from Wall Street (Rahm and his brother made fortunes there), he took tons of money from banking, insurance, health care, big ag, coal (clean coal, my ass) and nuclear corporations. He golfs more and takes almost as many vacations as W. Who the hell do people think he really is, whose interests do you really think he instintually represents? Of course he is in the clouds above the "griping and groaning" masses!

Wake Up Americans!

The US empire is on the wane, the military is stretched around the globe trying to maintain the staffing and expenses of hundreds of bases, fighting two real shooting wars, depleating the treasury while bailing out Wall Street, Insurance and Health Care corporations and Auto makers who don't know how to make a vehicle that people will buy, as the planet is warming uncontrollably. Anybody see Collapse on cable sunday night - read Jared Diamonds books?

[truedelphi]

193. Geithner and Obama were probably childhood buddies.

Both men had parents who worked at the Ford Foundation.

And then there is Obama's fondness for Henry Kissinger.

But I am quite taken with your post - you covered a lot of the bases that so many "loyal" Dems are missing.

[Cherchez la Femme]

274. That alone is highly troubling

"And then there is Obama's fondness for Henry Kissinger."

And of course it's impossible to forget his praises of Ronnie Raygun.

:sigh:

[xchrom]

16. Oh. My. That's funny mr. President. Nt

[Capitalocracy]

127. The guy should be a standup comedian nt

[t0dd]

18. Yeah, that's how you get your supporters to the polls.. "get over it" and "wake up"

... :eyes:

[Jackpine Radical]

85. Maybe if he told us we ought to be drug-tested

and our support of liberal positions is retarded…

Hey, I have it! Why not put together a commission to look into cutting Medicare & SocSec?

I fear that his real problem is that more liberals WILL wake up.

[bullwinkle428]

19. Rather fortunate for him that he's not personally on any ballot this November.

[Cherchez la Femme]

277. Don't worry

about 6-12 months prior to election day 2012 he'll be all polite, sweet and SO full of compliments toward us (*and* our checkbooks & time to volunteer for his reelection).
He may let us get out from under the bus for a while and give us the privilege of standing outside the flaps of the now-roomy Big Tent and look in at the REAL Democrats!
I can hardly wait.

I guess the thinks the Lefties have poor memories,

or either we have good short-term memory and no long-term

or we're all afflicted with Alzheimers in general. :shrug:




edit: what else? Typo

[Brickbat]

21. How odd that someone with such an inspirational campaign is telling us to keep our standards low.

When I hear "compare us to the alternative," I hear an excuse. It's like when I tried to tell my mom a C was a good enough because it was average. She demanded A's because she knew I could produce them, and that I was worth the fight.

[chervilant]

144. Hello!!!

Exactly!!!!!!

And, like so many here on DU, I am fed up with excuses. Our situation as a nation is dire, and BEGS for bold, effective leadership. I've not seen this from Mr. Obama. At this point, I'm pretty sure I WON'T see this from Mr. Obama.

[Brickbat]

166. OMG, when you said "HELLO!!!"...

...I thought you were my mom and had figured out it was me. :hi:

I agree with you about leadership. I've seen none from him. After 2008, that is.

[chervilant]

191. Thank you

I needed a bit of levity at this point in time. I just got my first unemployment benefits. Was told $406/wk; actually received $183/wk. This won't even cover a third of my now overdue rent.

The main reason for the reduction, I'm sure, is the fact that I'm working part time. That income ($166/wk) plus the meager unemployment I've received means that I'll have a monthly income of just under $1400, which has to stretch to cover monthly obligations and necessities that total $1900 (that's if I expect to eat each month). One has to wonder what Malkin and her ilk are ingesting, to come up with the assertion that we would rather collect unemployment than work...

[No Elephants]

226. Are you sure you have not been seeing him lead? Please see Reply 223.

He may be leading, just not in the direction you'd prefer.

[scentopine]

22. LOL! And to prove his point, he just appointed another wall street insider

Now here is change we need another goddamn wall street insider controlling public policy.

Democrats are enabling the tea-party with arrogance. Un-fucking-believable. Democrats are trying to purify the democratic party by pushing out liberal voters. They have rebuilt the party into the Reagan republican party and keep giving nothing but fuck-yous to liberals (*) while on their knees in front of corporations.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/21/obama-nominee-jacob-lew-f_n_732594.html

---- snip
A former top executive at Citigroup who participated in the deregulation of Wall Street during the Clinton administration and recently was tapped by President Barack Obama for a top White House post told a Senate panel last week that deregulation didn't lead to the recent financial crisis.

Jacob "Jack" Lew, Obama's nominee to lead the Office of Management and Budget, the White House agency entrusted with ensuring that federal regulations reflect the president's agenda, was asked Thursday during his confirmation hearing before the Senate Budget Committee by Sen. Bernie Sanders whether he believed that the "deregulation of Wall Street, pushed by people like Alan Greenspan Robert Rubin, contributed significantly to the disaster we saw on Wall Street."

Lew, a former OMB chief for former President Bill Clinton, told the panel that "the problems in the financial industry preceded deregulation," and after discussing those issues, added that he didn't "personally know the extent to which deregulation drove it, but I don't believe that deregulation was the proximate cause."

---- snip

Jesus christ - you can just imagine what is coming down the pike - if you thought the first two years were hell, just wait as these fuckers tap every last dime in your pocket. THIS GUY IS GOING TO BE IN CHARGE OF OMB - the organization responsible for fairness in contracting, transparency, etc Holy fucking shit - why not just put a child molester in charge of health and human services because they no so much about children???

And they say we are trying to destroy the president? Amazing. We are being treated like employees of a giant corporation. If we don't like it we can go vote somewhere else. Like....? Just more proof that democrats wnat liberals out of the party. THe tea baggers are winning even when they lose. Democrats would rather switch the party to the right than fight.



(*) Those who
oppose the capture of government by corporations
oppose the massive war build up aned resultant death and destruction in Afghanistan
oppose warrantless spying on Americans and corporate outsourcing of security functions
oppose off-shore-drilling and corporate capture of MMS
oppose corporate written health reform with mandates, no cost controls and legalizing monopolies
oppose the corporate capture of net neutrality
oppose the corporate outsourcing that obama and geithner have promised india will increase
oppose additional free trade agreements being demanded by corporations
oppose corporate tax credits as stimulus
oppose the massive defense industry build-up with no corporate oversight
oppose the secrecy and police state and BPs corporate control over the Gulf Coast disaster

[Hell Hath No Fury]

97. This needs to be its own post --

this is more important imformation on just how fucked up the WH choices are when it comes to protecting us from the Wall Street sharks. :( :puke:

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

146. Watch how fast this gets yanked.....

I am doing some research on collapsing(ed) civilizations.
A line of research led to this website.
I have no idea if any of The August Review is on the up and up.
But, if it is, it would explain tons.

http://www.augustreview.com/

It is a watchdog group, watching the Trilateral Commission.

A wiki description:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission

It's website:

http://www.trilateral.org/

The article that probably will get this post yanked:

http://www.augustreview.com/news_commentary/trilateral_commission/obama:_trilateral_commission_endgame_20090127110/

[beforeyoureyes]

232. Please post this comment as its own topic!

If BUSH perpetrated the same things as OBAMA is doing now, there would be unanimous outrage on this board.

Yet, the ethics and principles go out the window because he has a D after his name.

Good God! Blantantly obvious and pathetic. How much more will it take?

[scentopine]

242. Thank you - I only occasionally post an original post because it

often gets locked down. DU is relatively moderate so nothing too controversial bubbles up. Occasionally there are some cracking good posts, but fewer and fewer these days. You know its bad when huffington post is sort of carrying the liberal torch.

As soon as you post something critical like legitimate anger over war spending, off shore oil drilling or wiretapping, the bees come out of the hive.

Dems are hoping good will toward Obama is enough to push him over mid-terms. No need to represent noisy liberals like me - we are supposed to shut the fuck up.

They don't really need our vote and Obama just scolded us again. I guess he wants us to be more cooperative, like his republican friends.

We've all seen the damage centrist and right wing "free" market, corporate sponsored legislation has caused. Things are not really getting any better, we are being groomed to accept less while the rich get more of our money.

I think the DLC has bet the farm on the neo-democratic ex-republican voter. They'll do anything and everything to make sure they are proven correct.

I actually had someone defend the rich by saying - "you aren't living in a hut are you? So you should thank the rich for that. That's where you'd be without them."

:-(

That's how low the national dialog has sunk and endorses the effectiveness of the right wing in both parties.

Now, if its the right kind of hut on Fiji...

:-)

[scentopine]

250. OK - I did a new post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9177960

Will it get unrec'd to death? We shall see. Three words. Hard to offend anyone with this.

[Cherchez la Femme]

282. Thank you, but

copy & paste the entire Post #22 onto your top level post. It's all good <--- I mean it as written, not using it as a catch-phrase.

[Cherchez la Femme]

280. +101

[deutsey]

23. I think many of us have awakened from what used to be the American Dream n/t

[alc]

25. define "alternative"

It could be republicans and the administration looks good.

It could also be the Obama from the campaign, and the administration looks bad (to some of us)

Don't let them get away with being better than the bad guys. Make them use a higher bar.

[Bill McBlueState]

27. As one of these progressives,

I'm coming around to the idea of showing up in November to vote for a slate of candidates I don't really like, but who are somewhat better than the alternative.

Smart-ass remarks from the President aren't helpful.

[OnyxCollie]

28. Why the need to pressure liberal critics?

If it's just the fucking retarded, professional left who is upset, the rest of America must LOVE everything he's done so far, and November will be a cakewalk for the Dems. No?

You don't think he's worried, do you?

[scentopine]

32. Centrists are trying to purify the party - they want liberals out, republicans in...

the dem party is like a corporation trying to profit on any opportunity - politics is a product, they have to sell it to make money. Left/right doesn't matter - its about making money on opportunities. They see alienated republicans as an opportunity for votes. So, they have fired the liberals and hired the suits. Corporations are nervous about the tea party, so for corporations to work with democrats, liberals have to be purged.

It's just like every business model these days. Hire and fire at will. We are all just employees of the state and serve at their pleasures.

[OnyxCollie]

36. I believe it's why they came up with the new logo.

Void of any connotation to the democratic principles that correlated with the Democratic party. If it has no meaning, no one can be angry that they didn't get what they expected.

Welcome to the unthink campaign. It's working for KFC, why not the Democratic party?

[Occulus]

259. It absolutely is the reason. Fortunately, it's dead-looking enough to play with.

DUer yurbud changed it:



And I spruced his up using Blender:

[Bodhi BloodWave]

46. So in other words, roughly what i see a number of liberals or far left people try to do

here on DU and on other forums then? What with keeping saying that those who consider themselves moderate/center dems are not really true democrats but Rinos?

As an outsiders view i think both sides need to learn to work together since both parts are democrats

[liberation]

61. Technically they're called "DINOs"...

Freudian slips being what they are however...

[Amonester]

106. I now view them as the Depublican party.

THEIR Depublican party.

[No Elephants]

230. Republicrats and Demlicans.

[Iowa]

202. Ha! Good catch and a deadly reply.

[laughingliberal]

92. " i think both sides need to learn to work together since both parts are democrats"

I think so, too. I'm still waiting for a story about the President's enforcer visiting a Blue Dog or New Democrat and insisting they play nice with the progressives.

[No Elephants]

229. Granted, I post and read mostly in LBN, but I have yet to see a far left post here.

You saw a poster at DU advocating violent overthrow of the U.S. government and seizure of the means of production for purposes of establishing communism in the U.S.? If so, got a link? If not, you have not seen a far left post here.

"Liberal" is NOT far left. Neither is populism.

[scentopine]

249. Hi - I'm the far left. Here is where I stand, here is where we stand.

Please explain why I do not deserve representation or a policy role at the table. Here are a few of my (our) concerns:

We oppose the massive increase in war spending - outspending Bush at peak of Iraq. 100,000+ military, 100,000+ contractors. The war on terror has been as effective as the war on drugs. Both are fueling demand. Been following the news in Mexico lately?

We do not believe that more money needs to be pumped into yet another intelligence agency chartered with monitoring US citizens here or there. NSA, (the new cyber security, agency, whatever its called), TSA, HSA, FBI, ATF, Customs, Border Patrol, countless contractors, CIA, Army, Navy, Air force, Marines, Coast Guard, state and local police - seems like over kill. Our prisons are exploding. That is one industry that is hiring. How can such a disparate shambles of spy agencies be effectively controlled? They can't. Apologies if I missed 1 or 100 more.

We oppose warrantless wiretapping. There is no shred of evidence that any security would be compromised by judicial review within the existing legal framework. The theory behind spying on Americans by the military and companies like AT&T is exactly the logic that justified torture - we are a war and all measures are necessary.

We oppose health care legislation written and vetted by lobbyists within secret committees run by the politicians who profit the most from insurance & drug company's campaign contributions. We don't agree to mandates, we don't agree to non-competitive drug pricing, we don't agree to policy without cost control. And that fact that we can cover our kids til they are 25 is like telling us - ha, fat chance in hell your kid will make it on their own - so here ya go... fuck. $12K - $15K a year isn't much help for a 50+ old who was out-sourced to India and doesn't have a hope in hell of getting another job except at burger king.

We believe that Obama has quietly sanctioned torture by choosing not to prosecute torturers.

We believe Obama has quietly sanctioned greed, raft and corruption by leaving the MMS intact and giving them drill-baby-drill after their well publicized sexual relationships and drug use with their corporate partners. The US public was further rewarded by greed, raft and corruption in the form of an oil disaster in the gulf.

We believe that the truth about the seriousness of the oil spill was known well in advance of when it was finally made public to blunt concern about the disaster. We also believe that BP was is not the best corporation to manage the clean up, including managing security around the clean up. I personally believe that president Obama made a deal with BP that in exchange for $20 billion, he'd keep the press off their back and give BP complete control over the scientific process at the spill site.

We believe that the financial reform bill does nothing to reverse the devices Wall Street has available to cheat, steal, lie and generally continue to fuck us over and there will be another too big too fail crisis.

We believe that when Obama and Giethner recently assured India that outsourcing would continue, it was the wrong thing to do.

We believe that Geithner, Emanuel, Summers (good fucking bye), Bernanke operate under the persistent state of conflict of interest regarding their close personal and professional ties with citibank, goldman sachs and other wall street entities who have profited greatly during the recovery.

We believe that when Gibbs and the administration says they are working hard for Americans, they are talking over the heads of non-rich Americans and aim specifically at rich Americans - primarily the American CEO who claims that "uncertainty in Washington" is hold back economic recovery. Bullshit.

We believe that corporate tax credits and state budget gap funding really don't count as effective stimulus in a massive economic disaster.

We do not believe that Bill Gates has the solution to the education problem. We believe he is rich. Your property tax goes up to pay for access to microsoft and intel products in kindergarten. Meanwhile companies like microsoft and intel are outsourcing to an $8/hr temp worker who is 24 in Bangalore and is getting his first serious experience with computing as he takes a job that used to be in America.

We do not believe privatizing schools will solve the education crisis. We cannot accept private schools hiring H1B teachers. We cannot educate ourselves to accept $8 an hour.

We believe that FDR was right and the DLC is wrong - they are out of phase, this is the wrong time to be inflicting us with high priced corporate solutions on public problems. FDR has been vindicated over and over. DLC? Not so much if you factor out the richest 5% or 10%. DLC and the rich go together like hand in glove.

So there you have it. Our big fat fucking "pony".

Obama and the "moderates" haven't budged an inch on these issues. Many of the things we oppose were concessions to the right wing of the democratic and republican party. Are you saying that Obama admin wanted to go harder to the right but only after much compromise with the far left, they reluctantly agreed to this?

Have you heard the rhetoric and ideas from the tea party? How dare anyone equate the "far left" to the "far side" of anything. Stop calling us the "far left" in a false equivalence to the "far right".

This is just for starters, I'd add more (insufficient direct investment into US jobs and industry, over investment into trickle down theories, etc) but I have to get my kids to bed.

[No Elephants]

302. You seem liberal (for 2010, anyway), not "far left." Please see Reply 229. The right

(of both parties) keeps calling anyone left of Pat Buchanan the far left. It's a lie.

[scentopine]

313. "far left" was only to make a point...

on these issues there is simply no wiggle room that the centrists and other conservatives say is up for grabs.

Denying these basic things is like saying we don't have a right to breath air (without fortune 500 approval).

Centrists see me as the far left. At minimum I'm an FDR style liberal. Don't know after that, I'm exhausted just trying to understand how the right wing could have hi-jacked the democratic party so thoroughly and turned it into the worst free market bullshit of the neo-libs and the worst war killing machine of the neo-cons. New dem party is a weird hybrid of the worst ideas of both. I don't even have time to think about a perfect world. Seems like if democrats can't agree on these principals we are fucked as a species and centrists are just as right wing as republicans except that they are uncomfortable with the douche bags in the Tea Party. At a time most Americans can acknowledge that the centrists and republicans literally destroyed the future for the working-class, the democratic leadership is doubling down on trickle down.

Dem party for sale - established marketing and distribution channels, recently updated, fresh paint, nice Washington neighborhood, close to fortune 500. Ready to move in. Flexible terms. Make offer.

Thanks for the reply!

[Raster]

169. Centrists are trying to purify the party and would like the lefties to head towards the door...

...but on the way out want us to please vote to make sure "the party" retains control.

[Cherchez la Femme]

284. And take out your checkbook before we boot your azz out!

[zogofzorkon]

29. Yep "Democrats griping and groaning" ..."compare us to the alternative"

rhetoric makes me feel much better. Its always more comforting to be betrayed by your allies than your enemies.

[myrna minx]

30. How inspiring.

:eyes:

[salib]

31. One does not win by saying

My supporters are just whining.

One does not accomplish great things by say, "you may not like what I have done for you, but just think what the other guy would have done."

If Obama were to campaign like this (oh, wait, he is "campaigning") back when it mattered personally to him in 2008, what enthusiasm would he generate? Just take any of these comments and translate them back to 2008 and think for a minute about that.

I am disgusted.

Still, he is right about one thing, I am going to vote for Dem's, work hard for Dem's, even "enthusiastically" do so. However, it will be IN SPITE OF this kind of rhetoric, not because of it.

I am still disgusted.

[ixion]

35. Exactly. It sounds like something Bush would say... "It's hard work bein' preznit"

and so on.

[salib]

270. Oh come on. It does not sound like something Bush would say

He never said "my base is just whining because they want too much". Bush said "I see the haves and the have-mores. Some people would call you the elite, I call you my base".

[Cherchez la Femme]

285. This White House has already said what 'Hard Work' it is

*there is no emoticon yet created to express what I'm feeling and thinking at this moment*

[Roland99]

33. WTF? Gee...thanks for proving to be a freakin' sellout

so much for governing as the people wanted via the elections in 2008.

[ixion]

34. Oh, I'm awake Mr. Obama

and am smelling the BS you called 'change' :puke:

[Cherchez la Femme]

286. He promised filet mignon cooked to order

(Filet="Hope", Mignon="Change") and served up one truly audacious shit sandwich.


Unfortunately, that's what I'm smelling.


Maybe our 'fellow Democrats' on this board will ultimately be successful in convincing us how absolutely delicious that sandwich is! (And the drink of choice?)
Yay!

Goddess knows they keep trying, and mainly by ridicule and insults, just like....

[Dr.Phool]

38. Dear Mr. President.

Mindless repetition puts me to sleep.

[Doctor_J]

40. These quotes are Clintonesque

It seems like he spends more time bashing his base than his enemies like Boner and McConnell

[Iowa]

204. Boner and McConnell aren't his enemies. Progressives are his enemies.

[Phlem]

43. Wow

Yet another STUPID thing he did NOT have to do.

For a F'ing brainy chess player, he's made a lot of unnecessary stupid moves.

Including the speech above.

He could less of a fuckup if he just didn't make blatantly dumb ass remarks, like oh....throwing the left under the bus on FOX news to pass his shitty health care.

He's conciliator not an F'ing leader. He's not using tools at his disposal, "the bully pulpit, etc.." and when he does he can't fucking aim it right!

What a tool.

-p

[Cherchez la Femme]

288. He's playing chess, 3D chess no less,

by positioning his moves, to guard himself against his own pawns

while trusting the opposite colored pieces cause, y'know, he's bipartisan.


Yep. As a chess-player he truly is one of a kind
but how many games does he really win, I wonder...

[Phlem]

44. and yet

I will still vote democrat because the alternative is hell.

At least we're sitting on the outside of the fence of hell and no one has opened the gates and unleashed the dogs.

Woot..... ;0(

-p

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

48. out of curiosity, how active are you in pressuring congress or those who represent your area? n/t

[on point]

47. Uh, actually the Dem leadership are the one's who need to wake up

[MilesColtrane]

50. New 2012 slogan?

"Lowered Expectations You Can Believe In"

[cadmium]

54. I dont get why this gets

people so worked up. Speaking for myself (far to left of OBama policies) I dont care what they say in their banter.

[liberation]

63. Humor...

know it, learn it, love it...

[cadmium]

268. OK. gotcha. nt

[golddigger]

51. Words! Fired up!

[Demeter]

53. You First, Mr. President

[Hulk]

57. I have to agree 100%

Remember......President Obama and the 50+ Democratic Senators are NOT in control 100% with these bastards in the obstrucionist party. We need to back him, replace the repukkkes and the neocons-in Democratic-clothing.

Once we get this addressed...THEN we can bitch if it doesn't look like what we expected or were promised. Be real, folks!

[Cherchez la Femme]

289. Obama's Bipartisanship

was supposed to win over the "Obstructionist Party".
What Democratic fruits did that yield again? Remind me because my burnt-out & retarded brain can't seem to think of any examples...

You also wrote:

THEN we can bitch if it doesn't look like what we expected or were promised. Be real, folks!

We already have witnessed too much of the opposite of 'what we expected or (were) promised', but we shouldn't bitch NOW?
Curious. When, then? Do you have a date when it would be, then, OK? Or do you know what the camels-back-breaking straw would happen to be?


He and his people have consistently slammed an integral part of his own base and just as consistently sucked up to Republicans
(there's that wonderful Bipartisanship again!)

that's reality, Hulk!

[bluerum]

62. Handing out so many ponies for all the good boys and girls takes time.

You can always DO something instead of waaaaahing to the president.

[Cherchez la Femme]

290. Ah, what lovely sentiments

and they SO unify the Democratic Party! :applause:

While I'm waiting for my pony, what is acceptable then?
I already write and call my elected "representatives". I already go to marches and protests (mostly local because I can't leave the critters for very long). I also do a lot of volunteering (social), and do a lot (political) --especially to get this president elected.
Why the last? Because, you know, he promised me a pony!!11!!!1!

So your post convinced me!
Still, I don't know what it is you would have us do rather than "waaaaahing", as you so eloquently put it, to the president?

[Techn0Girl]

323. Tell you what, I'll trade you the fucking pony for some afordable health coverage.

or a job.

[closeupready]

66. Yes, because it's easier to abuse your supporters than to confront your enemies.

:mad:

[Peregrine Took]

71. Good one! n/t

[Plucketeer]

67. The audacity of hype.

I want to NOT pay attention anymore. If I don't long or hope for something, I won't have to grouse when it doesn't materialize.

[KamaAina]

104. DUzy!!

:rofl:

[Techn0Girl]

199. Best. Title. Ever !

[Cherchez la Femme]

291. Very Buddhist

if you have no expectations, then you can never be disappointed.

Unfortunately that's at least half, if not all, of what Politics is -- expecting things to be better under the candidate of your choice
else, what's the point? :shrug:

[mvd]

68. Fight for things, you just might get them

The President is dismissing the power of his office a little easily here. My problem is that he never really fought for the public option and focused on the watered down Senate version so much. I am glad that Warren was appointed to start the new consumer protection agency; maybe that's a start.

[laughingliberal]

100. +1 nt

[G_j]

243. aim for the stars

and great things can be achieved



my fortune cookie for Obama

[Peregrine Took]

69. Don't you win more people over with HONEY and not VINEGAR?

I really wish I could pull back my vote. I'd rather have Edwards, as personally flawed as he is, than "Fibber McGee."

[Iowa]

208. Agreed. I went with Kucinich in the Iowa caucuses. I was forced to switch and went with Edwards.

[frylock]

70. what a dick..

as much as I disagree with his policy, I always felt obama was likable enough. now, not so much.

[LeFleur1]

77. Enough With the Words, Mr. President

Get off the campaign trail and LEAD. Haven't seen that yet.

Isn't there enough for the President to do? Why does he have time to go on the campaign trail and insult those who worked for him? I don't see that he is doing much good on the trail. I just don't believe him anymore. Actions speak louder than words. If he had fought for the public option and lost, that would be one thing, but to give up on it without a fight was not good at all. I have not seen him LEAD. And if he IS pushing, talking,threatening, leading, someone needs to let us know.

[gateley]

72. I've been proven wrong time and again when I assume Obama "isn't doing what

he should", then I find out he's been fighting for ____________ behind the scenes.

It's always so easy for us to pass judgment because it seems so simple to us out here. But I honestly believe until we're walking in his shoes, we have no idea what he's up against and what concessions he's had to make to gain what he has. I think that's true of every elected official - I even gave Bush Sr. a pass when, after saying "read my lips, no new taxes" he had to come to the American people and say "I'm sorry, but I didn't realize the extent of the situation". Hell, it's like that in our own jobs -- we always think we have the hardest job and others are slacking, until we take over a "slacker" position and learn what it actually entails.

So although I'm unhappy with the result - or lack of - of many issues, I've come to really trust this man to TRY to do what's right, and to do the best to deliver.

[mvd]

78. I just don't share your optimism

I don't expect Obama to abuse executive power like Bush did, but we have had the House, Senate, and White House. I just find it hard to believe that we couldn't convince a few Dems with enough pressure.

Now I do think Obama has one last chance to get tougher before the elections, and he has been more outspoken. Hope he keeps it up. I'm putting some positivity here along with my complaints. :hi:

[gateley]

105. "Optimism" may be a bit too strong --

I'm not clicking my heels and feeling that everything is coming up roses. :7

I agree that I think he should have been tougher from the beginning, but then I think -- I don't know what he was REALLY up against. My sense, though, is that he was trying too hard to please too many, but I'm encouraged by his recent naming of names and appearance of willingness to push forward without as much effort to win the Republicans over.

I've said since the beginning he should send Biden down to the Senate floor to pull an LBJ. Maybe that will be in the future.

I've felt betrayed previously, but now I don't feel that way, rather that he's truly trying, whether I understand his approach or not, and whether or not he's successful. I do feel comfortable that he has our backs, and that's enormously comforting. I'm feeling better about him. I'll let you know when I get to the "optimistic" level. :hi:

[mvd]

125. Yes, I agree that he's trying in the way he feels best

I just don't think that way is best, because the Repukes are more extreme than they ever were. Compromise is a noble ideal, but I don't feel now it's possible. I definitely have not given up on the President yet, considering his recent approach. I wish he would drop the whole dismissal of progressive thing as that just alienates many who worked to elect him. Explain to us instead of dismiss, and we might understand better.

[gateley]

157. Yes - that's been a complaint of mine all along. TELL us what's going on, what you're

doing, what's happening. Otherwise we think it's not even on his radar.

The Gulf disaster is a good example. He needed to come out and say "I know you may think we're not doing anything on our end, but here's what we're working on..." something like that. Even, "there's only so much we can legally do at this point, and this is what it is, this is what we're working to change." We assumed he was just "letting BP run the show".

Better communication, definitely. Any other "employee" would have to explain their plans and actions to their bosses, he needs to do that.

I wish Biden were given more free rein because when you ask him about something, he answers the question!

We've been saying to stop trying to court the Republicans since the beginning - it was so clear that it didn't matter what the issue was, they would work to block any action. It SEEMS as though he may have finally decided he's tried enough, and there are even some Republicans who have said they will vote with us re: not extending the tax breaks for the big boys, and I think I heard some will vote with us on DADT?

I need to pull out my old X-Files tee shirt -- I WANT TO BELIEVE! :7

[Cherchez la Femme]

294. Sure, he's trying in the way he feels best

No question.

The real question is What does he actually FEEL is best?
campaign promises not included -- according to many here it's done all the time and perfectly fine to lie, er mislead the voters when you're running for office.

Well, when some people are running for office
the others are eeeevvviill when they lie (er mislead? no, for those types it's definitely Lie) to the populace.

[EFerrari]

101. My experience is exactly opposite. His moderate public stances

always turn out to be undercut by what he does behind closed doors, which is disappointing for a president that stumped on transparency.

[gateley]

110. I understand your view -- and I honestly swing back and forth. But I am

really experiencing a growing feeling of trust which was shattered a while after he took office. One reason is the very example you cite -- transparency. Every time I learned of "behind closed doors" or other actions that seemed the opposite from what he promised, I felt kicked in the gut and incredulous that stuff like that keep happening!

But, and I really can't explain it or put my finger on a specific turning point, little by little I learn some of what DID happen behind closed doors, or what he gained from certain concessions, and think "ah, now I understand why....." (even though I might not agree). My Obama Meter is rising again at this point, and I'm just more willing to wait a little longer before I make a judgment on an action or inaction I don't agree with.

I guess I can say is that I'm beginning to feel more confident that he believes he's doing what he can to keep his promises, whereas before I got the impression he didn't care at all . I think I was wrong.

Or, I could be wrong now! :7 Time will tell. :hi:

[EFerrari]

190. You know, gately, what I think about the president

as an individual or a politician or even as a president isn't very important. But I sure would appreciate it if he stopped swiping at us until after the election. People are having a really hard time out here and it's going to be hard enough to gotv.

Maybe this cr@p worked in Chicago. But even Chicago is having hard times right now and it's time to encourage people, not browbeat them.

[Cherchez la Femme]

296. I'd appreciate it if he stopped swiping at us

permanently :shrug:

[EFerrari]

305. Which is why you come with your own warning.

:P

[Cherchez la Femme]

314. Mais oui, LOL!

[Psephos]

122. Yes, you nailed it. n/t

[Cherchez la Femme]

293. So delivering insults to a part of his base makes him A-OK?

And yeah, we've heard from 2 presidents in a row now how that office is chock full of "Hard Work" *TM
--never mind we snickered and were derisive the first time we heard it
NOW it's a legitimate complaint!

Oh wait... can this President complain, just as he derides the people in his own party for doing?

Gotta work on that disconnect in time for the next Great Speech! :patriot: :applause:

[harun]

75. "We are not as bad as Republicans" IS A HORRIBLE EFFING STRATEGY !!!!!!!!!

[mvd]

81. I agree

I thought, that's resting a lot on how nutty the Tea Party and the GOP are. We just can't take a chance, because many Americans are more fickle than we at DU are.

[harun]

87. It might not piss off many independants but it is certain to make the base apathetic.

[LibDemAlways]

121. But that's the strategy that the Dems have come up with. It translates to

"Yes, we didn't fulfill our promises. In some cases we didn't even try. But, would you rather have the wack-o tea partiers in charge?"

Sadly, some voters will answer "yes" and others will stay home.

The Repukes are the party of "no." The Dems are the party of "We don't suck as much and you have no other reasonable alternative."

[G_j]

136. I did a double take

that really is what he was saying, wasn't it!
:scared:

[harun]

161. I've been saying this is how they have governed from the beginning but now they are using

it as a damn slogan.

[Techn0Girl]

188. It's all part of the new DNC corporate slogan coming out next week....

"Hey folks - it could be worse! "

Big announcement from the DNC next week - watch for it! (it will change everything)

[Deep13]

76. I wasn't asleep. nt

[Cherchez la Femme]

297. Pithiest comment yet

sums it all up :applause:

[libmom74]

79. I'm getting more

and more fired up tp vote third party. Seriously are they trying to purposefully piss off supporters and lose in Novemember, because it sure seems that way. :argh:

[Kall]

86. Why is he worrying about the silly, irrelevant professional left?

I'm sure he has an army of moderate conservatives to replace them, ready to go to work till November. He wouldn't have been so foolish as to fail to plan for this rather obvious eventuality.

The insurance industry is spiking rates post-wonderful-health-care-bill (during a horrific economic downturn) because he didn't bother to stand for a public insurance alternative to hold them accountable, and the entire country is pissed about it. The entire country is pissed about expanding the Afghanistan war, and the soldiers fighting in his "non-combat operations" in Iraq are pissed at his characterization of "ending the Iraq war". This guy needs to buy a clue, it's not just some fringe liberals that held these things as important. He needs to wake up.

[colsohlibgal]

89. Vote For Us, We're Not Them!

Sure we've sold you out, reneged on all sorts of things we said we would do once elected, we provided the ultimate wet dream for Health insurance and drug giants instead of what we should have done, the same for Wall Street since I hired insiders as my go to guys yes we stink but they stink even more.

They count in this, they don't have to do a lot to do a bit better than the now fascist/reactionary republicans so they don't.

It's so disheartening. I'll probably get out to vote but part of me thinks I should not, it would be enabling, that the whole system needs to be seriously rebooted.

What I'd really like to see is a law that would require every member of the House and Senate to wear patches of their big sponsors like Nascar. Because in the end the big problem is big money buying votes and influencing policy. Get money out of politics since in reality it brings about something that is really bribery, go to public financing of elections, and things would get better immediately.

[stuart68]

94. What a weak argument - I'm not as bad as the other clown

what ever happened to leadership and vision and resolve ? Doing what is right no matter the cost ?

HC and the bailouts are the best example of weak leadership.

[Lucky 13]

91. Being locked in a trunk with a rabid porcupine is better than the alternative

So that's what this is about, huh? Setting the bar sufficiently low enough. Congratulations Mr. President, I choose you over the Bush Administration and a rabid porcupine.

I'm wide awake, Mr. President. I read you loud and clear. Take what you give me and like it.

I suppose you would advise me to stay with my boyfriend even though he beats me, because my last boyfriend beat me worse.

I'm not comparing you to the almighty. I'm comparing you to former self circa November 2008.

[Capitalocracy]

128. Just because the alternative is a rabid porcupine

doesn't mean Obama has to give us whatever's almost as bad but slightly better than a rabid porcupine... I don't know, maybe a rabid skunk?

[katandmoon]

93. Not to worry, Mr. Prez. I'm sure Alan Simpson appreciates you.

[sellitman]

95. Wish he would spend more time bitching about the right then the left.

This is no way to motivate the left IMHO.

[Hubert Flottz]

96. Right...sit down and shut up you spoiled, unionized, retarded...

naysayers.

The country is paying the price for one sided "Bipartisanship" nice dream but just that, a fucking dream. You can't pal around with political terrorists and expect to emerge smelling much different than your pals.

The lesser of two evils seems like the best choice we ever get anymore.

I'll turn out and vote my usual straight democratic ticket, but on both the state and local level, it will make my fuckin' skin crawl.

[Nihil]

264. And *THAT* is exactly what he is counting on ...

Everyone can see, hear and feel what he is (and has been) saying ...

> Right...sit down and shut up you spoiled, unionized, retarded... naysayers.

... but most will go straight back into the state of denial ...

> I'll turn out and vote my usual straight democratic ticket, but on both
> the state and local level, it will make my fuckin' skin crawl.


Obama & his minders know exactly what most of the liberals & progressives
will do and it's the same thing as ignorant poor Republicans did when Bush
pissed all over them every time: vote for "their" party again and hope it
turns out better next time.

Doing the same thing every time yet expecting a different result is a sign
of insanity.

Doing the same thing every time and laughing all the way to the bank (with
their winnings from betting on the stupidity of the electorate) is a sign of
clever rich powerful people who are supremely confident that the majority of
voters are ignorant of the realities of the one-party state in which they live.

That's not a personal dig at you Hubert - you just posted the words that many
others on this thread alone have also stated. Neither is it a dig at the party
people here who are "simply following orders" (implicit or explicit).

It is a simple statement from an observer who knows full well that all of the
vitriol from this site that is heaped on whichever party leader is in charge
has absolutely no effect on said party leader's opinions, state of mind or
policies. That's why they can always get away with snide remarks to their
sponsors about "the liberals", "the Left", "environmentalists" and all of the
other things that will (occasionally) spark moments of "we can't let them get
away with this" before subsiding into the usual facade of "party lines".

[Hubert Flottz]

266. Okay I'll just vote for a third party nobody and throw my vote away...

Like hell I will...

[Nihil]

269. Not denying that you're in a cleft stick ...

... merely commenting that this is exactly why the situation doesn't change
even when the colour of the curtains in the White House changes.

It's just one big "old boys club" at that level and whoever is having their
turn in the posh chair knows that the proles will moan & groan then carry on
in the same old way as before.

:shrug:

[Capitalocracy]

99. He's showing nothing but contempt for his base.

Bottom line.

I'm sorry Obama, are you mad because we didn't make you do it, or are you mad because we actually took your advice and tried?

I'm going to vote Dem and everything, but this guy's going too far. It's one thing to blackmail us into voting for a crappy party because the alternative is an openly fascist party, it's another thing entirely to rub it in our faces and gloat about it.

[katty]

137. that he is - and he seems to enjoy scolding his base

[peace frog]

156. Who is he trying to impress, the opposition?

Is he bashing his base in an effort to curry favor with the RW? It will never happen. Wake up and smell the futility, Mr. President.

[Autumn]

107. I woke up and I can smell the coffee

and perhaps Mr President, you might want to do the same.

[kirby]

108. He sure knows how to piss off his base...

We will see what he thinks the morning after midterms.

[kirby]

109. Locking...

Sorry Mr Pres, but your post is divisive.

[Capitalocracy]

124. haha

zinger
:terrorist fist jab: :fistbump:

[demwing]

112. Excellent! Let's Consider The Alternative!

The progressive alternative.

I so done with this dismissiveness. In the last year I've learned that "Yes WE Can" clearly doesn't include the Progressive WE, and "Hope" clearly means "Progressives HOPE they'll have a voice, and Obama HOPES they'll vote for him regardless of what he says or does."

I understand that we cannot ignore the practical in pursuit of the perfect, after all, we've heard it enough from this administration. But that mantra shouldn't become an excuse for accepting a "second best" effort simply because the alternative requires courage, sacrifice, and hard work.

I will consider any progressive challenge to Obama in 2012. I just don't support this administration's agenda, regardless of how well they pretend to get back on track and kiss our collective asses each election cycle. They obviously don't give a damn about what matters to the left, not till they need our votes.

[SoapBox]

113. Hello Prez O? YOU are chiding US?

ok...so maybe it ticks me off a bit.

I would NEVER vote for a RushThug...hell, they can water board me and I will not vote for them.

BUT, Prez O...you need to save all your negative for the RushThugs and T.HaterBaggerCircusClowns.

Positive to the Dems/Progressives/Liberals and Independants.

I would like to personally remind you and the White House to WAKE UP!

[Techn0Girl]

114. This November - hopefully - the DNC will "wake up"

But i doubt it :(

[Techn0Girl]

115. 2500 views ... 118 comments - almost ALL supporting the OP's view ....

and only 8 recs (one of them mine)....

anyone find that just a tad unusual ?

Wake up.

[daylan b]

129. You mean...

...he told the main demographic of this site that they are out of it and the people of the site are united against it? Never could have predicted that.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that when both the far right and the far left hate you, you're doing something right.

[Iowa]

210. This is exactly the type of thinking that has this country in such a mess...

...the notion that you should just split the difference no matter how damned idiotic the other position is. Stand for nothing.

[daylan b]

240. I don't agree one bit.

You do know that what you are saying is just a mirror image of what the conservatives were saying about Bush when he passed stuff such as the prescription drug benefit right?

This nation is great BECAUSE it's not ruled by one group and we have to listen to all sides. If it weren't for that we'd have a new constitution every political cycle.

[Iowa]

263. This is nonsense...

You are operating under the illusion that the nation is, as you say, "not ruled by one group". Of course it is!

And are you really espousing the notion that, as you say, "we have to listen to all sides"? Seriously?

I could be wrong, but I'm going to venture a guess that you are either very young, or very new to politics. Nevertheless, you are being conned, my friend; you're swallowing the propaganda - hook, line, and sinker. Think for yourself. Take a position. Stand for something!

[daylan b]

265. Jaded would be a much better description than young or new to politics.

I used to be that idealist when I was young and new to politics until I realized the far left and far right were nothing more than two teams playing the exact same game. History just repeats itself over and over.

Party comes to power.

Predictions of the doom of the other party, arrogance of the ruling party.

Ruling party goes too far in the direction they they think they have a mandate for. Zealots of that ruling party whine that it's not enough.

Other party comes to power.

You people who think there is no such thing as a middle ground have been swallowed whole and are nothing more than a mirror image of the people on the polar opposite who think the same.

Obama's not telling you to wake up because he's a closet conservative, he's telling you to wake up because he lives in the real world.

[demwing]

276. "Live In The Real World" Is A Euphamism

for those who no longer have "The Audacity of Hope."

[daylan b]

303. And I was the one accused of being "young or new to politics".

..

[demwing]

306. Thanks, I love it when the self-identified "Jaded" tell me I'm naive

I'll wear your comment like a badge of honor. :)

[Cherchez la Femme]

298. Yes, because principles should *always* have a "middle ground"

If only our country's best philosophical and political minds
--y'know, those who wrote The Declaration of Independence and our Constitution?--
had such reasonable, pragmatic views!

[Iowa]

309. You're missing the point entirely...

The point is, you stand for nothing. You have no ideals; no principles or convictions that you are willing to stand by. As the political spectrum moves rightward, you move with it. Think about what it is you're saying. You are actually pushing the notion that "we have to listen to all sides" (to use your words). You know who the spokesmen are for the Republican side, right? Rush Limbaugh... Sean Hannity... Racist Tea-baggers... Michele Bachmann... Sarah Palin... And you come here and push the notion that we must listen to these people? You're not jaded; not even close. You're simply unprincipled. As the political spectrum moves dramatically rightward, you're perfectly willing to move with it.

And regarding this comment: "You people who think there is no such thing as a middle ground have been swallowed whole and are nothing more than a mirror image of the people on the polar opposite who think the same.... you need to understand that people with principles tend to stand by those principles. You clearly don't get that. I oppose racism, for example. I refuse to seek "middle ground" with tea-bagger racists. I oppose state-sponsored torture. There is no middle ground when it comes to torture. It's about convictions; something you appear to lack.

Your mindset is the polar opposite of mine. Susceptible to propaganda. Easily manipulated. But most of all... unprincipled. You espouse gravitating toward the middle no matter how insane the "real world" becomes. This type of weak, unprincipled thinking is precisely the reason why despots have been allowed to push entire countries into an abyss involving crimes against inhumanity, fascism, and police-state hellholes at various times throughout history... it's because people who think like you have preferred civility, "middle ground", and "splitting the difference" over ethics, justice, and principles.

[No Elephants]

233. As the thread parent, I just want to point out that the OP expressed no view. It simply quoted.

[Jim_Shorts]

116. Obama ,we'll wake up when you PICK A SIDE

Here is what you said at your For Investing Americans town hall

"It's not just a matter of implementing good policies, but also setting a better tone so that everybody feels like we can start cooperating again"

WOW How Affable - You deserve a good merit badge - Where have you been the last 20 years, under a rock?

I noticed you stumbled trying to utter the name F.D.R. because the mere thought of being bold is against your very nature. If you want to study real change listen to F.D.R. Don't just use his name for political effect.

F.D.R. > "We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace—business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.

They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.

Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred".

David Green > http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/01/22-7

[Marnie]

117. If the war is over then we are murdering Iraqis

No one believes the claims that we are not still in a war of occupation in Iraq.
We still have thousands of troops, all the machinery of war, and a puppet government.
And we are still killing.

If we are not at war then all deaths caused by our military are civilian deaths since there is no military opposition. All deaths caused by our military are murder.

Don't insults the worlds intelligence, it will gain nothing but scorn. And rightly so.

[JackDragna]

118. It's time to remove the man from office.

The "alternative" is someone who actually represents progressive values. He and his proxies have effectively told a large section of their party to go slag off. I'm now in favor of any Democratic party candidate who will actively oppose Mr. Obama and provide a primary challenge.

[Jim Sagle]

130. Hands off Social Security, Mr. President. And THAT means disbanding the Deficit Commission.

Do it BEFORE the election.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

131. .

Change You Can Believe In!


Compare Us To The Alternative!

[old mark]

132. What really irks me about the administration is the playing to the right...

Does our President actually expect the Republicans in congress to suddenly become rational beings and work for the good of the country instead of cheap theatrical politics. He has consistently given in to them, got nothing back, and tries again...the old definition of insanity - do what you have always done and expect a different result. Mr. Obama, they did not vote for you and never will like you and they are not going to suddenly become decent, fair, rational people.


mark

[Techn0Girl]

138. Let Them Eat Hope !

Nom....nom ...nom...
Tastes like chicken!

[mdmc]

158. 1

[golddigger]

140. This is what he should be saying to his advisors.

"WAKE THE FUCK UP!"

[Guilded Lilly]

145. I will NOT vote Republilcan , that is not a worry....

however, my hopes in Obama's administration have fallen SHORT in many ways and I am not going to quit HOPING that they IMPROVE, that they do BETTER. I will support them to give them that time to improve but I will NEVER stop demanding better. We are very much worth better lives in this country.

As smart as Obama is and with as many horrid obstacles the *alternative* has thrown at him, there ARE BETTER WAYS to improve our lives. I will never support the wretched alternative but I will ALWAYS encourage passionately and strive for this administration to do BETTER.

WE DESERVE IT. DO IT, for US.

[DeSwiss]

147. ".... ..." n/t

[mdmc]

148. I'll be voting on the working families party line in NOV,

As far as my cash goes, I will donate to an NYS Assembly Canidate ( http://www.roxannedonnery.com/ ), but not a dime more..

[still_one]

149. "Obama chides liberal critics"? Interesting choice of words by Reuters

Obama wasn't "chiding" anyone, he was simply responding to liberal critics. We may agree or disagree, but that Reuters choose the word "chide", was not to encourage a dialog, but try to divide Democrats

The progressives have everyright to state their disagreements with the administration, just as the administration has every right to do.

[No Elephants]

234. Meh. Characterizing finding of any fault with his accomplishments as "griping and groaning" is

close enough to "chiding." In fact, it's probably more dismissive and insulting than "chiding."

[still_one]

239. I think "chiding" is like "scolding" a child, and I find that choice of words inappropriate

I also do not agree with "griping and groaning". I think he is disagreeing and criticizing, which is the same thing the progressives are doing

hey, the word "chiding" just rubbed me the wrong way. If they used the word criticize, it would have been more appropriate in my opinion

[No Elephants]

307. Not sure what you are saying.

You said, "I also do not agree with "griping and groaning". I think he is disagreeing and criticizing, which is the same thing the progressives are doing"


I am not saying Obama is griping and groaning. Obama is the one who used those words. He also told us to wake up.

All that is disrespectful and dismissive.

I disagree with you that he's only doing what his critics are doing. (He would probably call himself "progressive," and I don't use that word anyway.)

By his own words, his critics are citing things like no public option. That is a substantive political issue. There's nothing disrespectful or personal or insulting in raising a substantive political issue wih a politician.

On the other hand, his reply (in the OP anyway) is not substantive but ad hominem--you're groaners and complainers. You're asleep. (paraphase). That is not "disagreeing" on a substantive political issue. That's simply insulting people simply because they're not delighted with you.

[chervilant]

151. hmm...

When I hear politicians griping and groaning and saying 'compare us to the alternative,' I say "I am NOT impressed with this vapid excuse!"

I say, "embrace the criticisms you hear and use them to inform your efforts to effect change."

I say, "stop insulting the citizens who are actively involved in our political system, and find ways to partner with us to effect change."

Who am I trying to kid? The Corporate Megalomaniacs are getting far more of Obama's time and energy than we ever will...

[truedelphi]

159. When the word "reform" became a bastardized version of what it used to mean,

When half my friends have spent over ten months trying to get the "re-modification" packages that you insist would help, but no one at the banks is helping, (and the phone queues and menus get worse day by day), when my County paid insurance doesn't even send me a notice to tell me that the year limit is up, and I need to reapply - all I can think is this:

One) In Ireland, the Government bought the toxic assets that the banks possessed, and restored the title to the people living in those assets, so that foreclosure is not an every day event. We gave our assets to the Big Wall Street firms. Why do the Irish have a government that works for THEM, while ours works only for the CorporRATe Elite?

Two) UNIVERSAL SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE - Something that you yourself campaigned for back when running for the Senate Senate in Illinois in 2004. What happened to that truly decent man, Mr President? Where did he go?

I know, Mr Obama, you can't hear me. You have been far too busy listening to Geithner and Rahm.

And now that the polls are biting you in the butt, you are once again becoming the friendly "progressive" person that we were supposed to love, even as we are pushed out of jobs, pushed out of our houses, and deal with Health Insurance matters that drive so many of us over the line.

Yeah, Yeah I know the Repugs will be worse. But don't blame me. Blame your poorly thought out methods of governing. Blame the lies you have told and are telling.

As at lest I expect the Republicans to lie to me.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

173. Ireland bailed out the HOMEOWNERS instead of the banks?

What a concept!

If the Obama administration had done that, along with forcing the credit card companies to lower their interest rates to pre-1980 levels, that would have had an immediate and visible effect on nearly every American household.

[closeupready]

178. Yup. And think about the multiplier effect, when newfound cash flow found its way into local econom

local economies. But hey, what do we know, we're just retarded junkies. :sarcasm:

[Raster]

213. Yes, but unfortunately, it would not have aided those poor banks. Taking the "toxic" assets--

--which the banks helped make toxic--off of the banks' lists of assets would take the banks out of the equation. They would only receive government assistance once, and not own those "toxic" assets. However, if the government "bailed out" the banks, which it did, the banks get the handout from the feds AND get to keep the "toxic assets." They really are the gift that will keep on giving. It's akin to perpetual institutional extortion and the federal government signed up to continue playing along. Admittedly bailing out some of the homeowners and buying the "toxic assets" would not have have been the panacea to fix all the problems, but it would have been a start. It would have been a move in the direction of more aid for the common man/woman and less aid for the corporatocracy. And unfortunately, that's not the direction this President and his administration have taken. And not just on this issue.

[Waiting For Everyman]

179. +1

Reforming bankruptcy law would've been good too. And including parents' PLUS loans in the student loan reform would've helped (they were left out). Requiring banks to lend would be nice.

And if he really wants to get ambitious, putting some of the stimulus into incentives for building affordable housing would be a good idea. Also subsidizing low-cost basic repairs of homes which people on the bottom economically have to put off endlessly. Those two ideas would employ lots of people in the construction trades.

Most of his projects to date have been directed toward helping people who are still ok. Those who were seriously harmed already by this recession haven't been helped much.

[theaocp]

160. I just don't get it

WHO the FUCK is going to be persuaded by this kind of brow-beating? Seriously! A detective would look for motive and I'm only an armchair detective, but who is he trying to convince? You flippantly and quite disrespectfully slap down my values and it's going to piss me off! No rocket scientist required to tell you that! I'm feeling enthused!

[Yeahyeah]

162. Wake up,bitches.I've got it made and you don't.

[Spyderama]

164. No, You Wake Up

Before the Rethugs have retaken Congress and you cannot accomplish anything further. I like and admire President Obama a lot, but, although he is an excellent statesman, he leaves a lot to be desired as the progressive attack dog that the country so desperately needs right now.

<http://palinbabygate.blogspot.com/>

[Jax]

167. You fucking wake up

Take that right wing rethuglican shit stain Reed and the rest of the rethuglican DLC shit stains and get rid of them.

You serve your Corporate masters and want the rest of us to eat your right wing trickle down shit with a knife and fork.

You fucking wake up. Take a fucking drug test.

His right wing rethug "I got mine so sit down and shut up" mouthpieces can go fuck themselves too.

[beforeyoureyes]

177. Amen fucking men

[Techn0Girl]

185. Rahm Emanuel? ... Is that you ??

[Jax]

216. What do you mean by that

corporate shit stain Rham can fuck himself all the way to his Wall Street bank buddies on the way to his drug test.


You have a problem with that?

[Techn0Girl]

218. It IS you Rahm !!

It's a joke (and a commentary on your choice of words) ... and if I have to explain it than it's not really funny.

Tell you what though - so I don't have to listen to gratuitous four letter words which really waste my time, I'll do us both a favor an place you on ignore.

I'll tell you something before I leave you forever - saying "fuck" and "shit" a bunch of times doesn't make for a decent post , help your argument , or even make you magically correct somehow.. People get tired of that sort of thing - it's like posting in caps all the time.

[Jax]

222. You get tired of it.

Big fucking deal.

Don't read it if it fucking bothers you. That is probably too difficult for you.

"People get tired of that sort of thing" only you, but you love to speak for everybody right?

I have yet to read a decent post from you. Mindless posts yes, decent no.

[JohnnyHardhat]

168. Why?

As someone who has run campaigns I have no idea why the president and his administration says this kind of stuff. It doesn't generate excitement or energize the party. All it does is engender more anger at not being taken seriously. Why waste a minute telling Dems they want too much? Their goals are impossible? Why not spend your time telling us things aren't perfect but... the fight is not over and you will continue to strive for our goals?

This Administration acts like amateurs.. even though many in it have years of experience. One of the many quandaries I have.

[closeupready]

181. "Amateurs". Yes, I have seen that since not long after his inauguration.

I wasn't sure if I was just being a little harsh, but glad to know others have seen it, too.

[Techn0Girl]

195. Not amateurs ... Professionals.

Divide and conquer has been an effective strategy of the ruling class since there was a ruling class.

Just look at all the time that WE, here at DU spend , dissing each other. It's the "Cheerleaders" against the "Pony CryBabies" most of the time, isn't it?

Weren't we all on pretty much the same side just 2 years go ? I'm not talking about Hillary vs. Obama, I'm talking health care, Union strength, banking reform.

While we fight amongst ourselves, 10,000 troops remain in the middle East. Halliburton and Blackwater (now Xe) are STILL getting hundred million dollars of contracts a year and . oh yeah... the Pentagon can't fucking account for where 7 BILLION dollars given to Iraq in '09 went to (again!)

While we fight amongst ourselves.
Not amateurs - Professionals.

They know exactly what they are doing.

[Cherchez la Femme]

299. MORE U.S. Billions went on walkabout?!

ZOMG
Who could have possibly imagined...??

[ProudDad]

172. Has the Hopium(tm) worn off yet, folks? (n/t)

[Kall]

174. Well

Liberals have been imploring Obama to "wake up" for 2 years now. Unfortunately, 2 months before the election is a little late, and horsewhipping the liberals is the incorrect response. Not pissing off the people who elected you in order to appease the whims of Co-President Snowe on health care and trying to get people calling you a Kenyan socialist to like you at the expense of good policy might have been a shrewder move.

Guess we'll see in November, eh?

[golddigger]

198. Is Obama running in November?

[Name removed]

175. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crazy Dave]

197. Great post

I never can understand why so many democrats think it's wrong if a republican gets elected and screws us over but it's not so bad if a democrat gets elected and screws us over.

[Cherchez la Femme]

300. When confronted

with those kind of politicians before, I used to think 'Well, at least that Democrat uses lubrication'


obviously not the case anymore

[h9socialist]

176. Obama is right.

Division between the progressives is internecine and foolish. No one said that there isn't a lot more to be done. The quickest way to guarantee there will be no further progress is to stay home on election day and let the Republicans take over. I'll stick with Obama.

[Ticonderoga]

187. "I'll stick with Obama"

Even though he keeps sticking it to you.

[OnyxCollie]

231. It's called system justification.

It's why the poor often vote against their best interest.

Apparently, it's not bound by party ID, only by which party is in power. Same thing with authoritarianism.

[Techn0Girl]

192. I agrere with you that when the Rethugs gain power things will be worse....

just look at 8 years of the Cheney administration - and it's effects now.

But I hear a lot of Democrats saying that they just don't care anymore - they're tired of a kinder and gentler screwing.
I think we're hearing close to a hundred of them on this thread alone - on a pretty straight-line Democratic site no less.

Maybe people want things to get worse so that more and more of them will wake up and take action.
Maybe things have to get worse before people will make them better?
I'm just sayin' ....

Maybe people are just tired of all the bullshit.

[still_one]

211. You might be close to the truth. The problem is things can get MUCH worse, and if the extreme right

does consolodate power, what makes them believe that they will be able to recapture that through the people's anger?

[Techn0Girl]

212. What makes me think that things can't get worse forever....

Is Nazi Germany. That's the most extreme example I can think of - corporate and social fascism taken to it's ultimate extreme . Thing is - that kind of awfulness just can't stand on it's own in these times. It eats itself alive.

But look what happened after just 25 years - German became one of the most Progressive countries in Europe. And it still is today.

What has happened in America the last 25 years?
Have we got any better - or much worse?

I am NOT saying that Nazi Germany is what is going to happen to America - I am just saying that looking at the most extreme examples of Western democracies being taken over by fascism in modern times seems to conclude that something happens (people's revolt , outside force) to turn the tide back in favor of the Progressives.

[still_one]

238. I am agreeing with you /nt

[h9socialist]

267. Honestly, the problem is the system . . .

I think that President Obama is a good guy, with a disposition to do the right thing. But the system he presides over is designed to protect private property, ruling elites and economic hierarchy. This makes the task very difficult even for people of good will. But the Left does need to be a little more pragmatic -- anyone who lived through the Reagan years should know what a disaster it is to be politically marginalized.

[Cherchez la Femme]

304. I'm just afraid this administration will do as it has done before

when faced with Democratic Party losses
--move even further to the right.

[metapunditedgy]

215. It's not the *progressives* who are divided. Furthermore, when Obama turns "centrist"

after running a leftward campaign, WHO exactly is splintering away from whom?

[Cherchez la Femme]

301. Judging by your screen name

you're a socialist, yet you proclaim you'll "stick with Obama"


Seems to be a lot of that disconnect going on around here lately...

[defendandprotect]

201. Corporatism in Dem party is disgusting ....but we need to keep moving to the LEFT ....

and keep TARGETING all corporate politicians -- including the corporate DLC, Blue Dogs,

New Dems -- whatever the corporates want to call themselves -- and replacing them with

liberal/progressive Democrats.

At least Obama knows we're here -- and we're annoying him -- that's a start!!

Keep on barreling forward -- TO THE LEFT -- TO THE LEFT -- TO THE LEFT!!

[florida08]

203. Before we tar and feather him

Keep in mind the tap dancing he has to do. Yes I'm angry that we didn't get everything we had hope..but we did get a measly start. What would we have had with McCain/Palin. Does anyone remember this:

Obama dismisses Blanche Lincoln's plea to be more centrist...

The pivotal moment came when Sen. Blanche Lincoln of deep-red Arkansas, a centrist who’s on her way to defeat in November, practically begged the president to repudiate “extreme” liberals -- a clear reference to the Nancy Pelosi-led House -- and tack to the center. Arguing that the Democrats’ ambitious legislative agenda was sowing job-destroying “uncertainty” in the business community, she asked: “Are we willing as Democrats to push back on our own party?”

Obama’s reply, in a nutshell: Sorry, Blanche.

If the price of certainty is essentially for us to adopt the exact same proposals that were in place for eight years leading up to the biggest economic crisis since the Great Depression -- we don’t tinker with health care, let the insurance companies do what they want, we don’t put in place any insurance reforms, we don’t mess with the banks, let them keep on doing what they’re doing now because we don’t want to stir up Wall Street -- the result is going to be the same. I don’t know why we would expect a different outcome pursuing the exact same policy that got us into this fix in the first place.

But the president is not only against a centrist shift on policy grounds; he also thinks it is a political loser:

If our response ends up being, you know, because we don’t want to -- we don’t want to stir things up here, we’re just going to do the same thing that was being done before, then I don’t know what differentiates us from the other guys. And I don’t know why people would say, boy, we really want to make sure that those Democrats are in Washington fighting for us.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/02/obama_dismisses_blanche_lincol.html

The republicans had 8 long horrble years effectively destroying this country..it will be decades before recovery even with a democrat in office. How long if we have republicans? Never. He was addressing a democratic crowd with the money. People who don't know what it's like to live on 40K/year and less. Sorry it's that way but right now it is. He's trying to appeal to a broad range of liberals and progressives..not easy. I'm no cheerleader and don't want to be. But regardless there is a left/center debate in the democratic party in the same way there's a right/crazy insane right debate in the GOP. I'm just glad that we're not in that mess. Remember Bush's address to his haves and have mores? Mocking the WMD bs. Obama would never do that. Change comes very slow..and in this political climate it could grind to a halt.

You see what they've done to try to destroy him and us. Until we get more progressives and less centrists in Congress,if ever, this is the hand we're dealt. We can fold and get more of the what we just came out of or we have his back. Yes I guarantee you will be
pissed on. This is a captialist country. Who is going to change that? No one. Capitalism is king right now. Probably always will be.
We outnumber the haves but they outnumber us in lobbyists and campaign contributions. Doesn't always mean they win but it gives them a helluva edge. I'm sorry it isn't more fair for us..myself included. But let's pick our battles carefully. There are some good wealthy democrats fighting for us. We just don't hear much about them because it's Destroy the Democrats era. We have this forum where we can vent. It helps me anyway. :-)

[depakid]

245. Yet he went out of his way to campaign FOR Blanche Lincoln

just as he did for Lieberman while he was still a junior Senator.

Actions speak louder than words- although as Krugman notes in his blog today, over time, words can also have a powerful demoralizing effect.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/21/the-anti-dog-whistler/">The Anti-Dog Whistler.

[aggiesal]

205. 'the health care plan didn't have a public option' ...

Wake Up?

The Obama administration never even considered the 'Public Option', that's why were pi$$ed.

We've been awake since Nov. 2008 when McIdiot conceded.

We're never going to compare Obama with the his alternative (McIdiot), but we will always
compare his administration with our alternative (Adding Public Option), ending DADT, closing Guantanamo,
bailing out Main St. instead of Wall St. (list is long) ...

[Techn0Girl]

209. "The Obama administration never even considered the 'Public Option', " ... Wake up .

Edited on Sat Sep-18-10 03:46 PM by Techn0Girl
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/obama-demand...

"Any plan I sign must include an insurance exchange: a one-stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, cost and track records of a variety of plans - including a public option to increase competition and keep insurance companies honest - and choose what's best for your family."
Barack Obama, July 2009

and

"The Bill I Sign Must Include Public Option"
Barack Obama,July 2009

http://tvnz.co.nz/health-news/factbox-obama-quotes-heal...

"Part of the reason we want to have a public option is just to help keep the insurance companies honest."
Barack Obama, July 2009

[aggiesal]

235. Ooops my bad, I meant Single Payer

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/baucus

When they held the Senate Finance Committee hearing on healthcare,
they didn't invite any person or group that was advocating for the Public Option.

"... This was the second hearing at which, despite majority support for single-payer in polls,
not a single advocate for single-payer was permitted to participate. ..."

[rateyes]

225. I am awake, that's why I'm mad as hell...but, what does it matter? Rahm says

we are all fucking retarded, anyway.

[Techn0Girl]

237. 245 messages - 5000 views (!) ..90% agree with the O.P. ... SO WHY ONLY 25 RECS ???

And it's been decreasing by the way....
What's up with that?
How can that be?

[Cowpunk]

255. It is unclear whether the OP is critical or supportive of the President

A lot of folks will see a rec as agreement with the president. Others won't. I rec'd it because it contains useful information.

[demwing]

279. Are you prompting the room for an answer you already know?

If you have an opinion just express it...

[OnyxCollie]

258. K&R. nt

[undeterred]

244. Yeah, he's a real lightwalker.

:sarcasm:

[Cowpunk]

252. "He has not fought hard enough for some of their priorities"...Shouldn't that be HIS priorities?

Or at least the ones he campaigned on?

(spelling edited)

[gkhouston]

254. How 'bout we compare you to some of your promises? n/t

[G_j]

256. Reagan began the attacks with the "L" Word

it's never stopped. Gee, do you wonder why liberals might be a little sensitive? Where is your heart? With us or Ronnie Ray-Gun?

[Cherchez la Femme]

272. "Friendly advice"?! And compare them to what?

Obama said. "As Joe Biden put it, don't compare us to the Almighty; compare us to the alternative," he said to laughter.

What is the alternative to God? Who?
Yeah, I get you're probably talking about Republicans, but the analogy doesn't stand, reading the "logic" of the sentence.

Any road, that's so laughable!

Who knew we elected a regular old stand-up comedian?

I can say I'm just simply ecstatic about the White House 'noticing' us so much,
by 'noticing' I mean calling us druggie retards, etc. and the latest: using us as the butt of jokes
while on a fund-raising jaunt --one would surmise for a Democrats only audience-- no less!


Genius, Mr. Pres! Pure genius! :banghead:

[Paula Sims]

287. Why was Bush able to ram his agenda through but not Obama?

Or WAS this Obama's agenda -- centrist all the way? Bush didn't care what anyone else had to say. I am disappointed. Anyone who's negotiated for anything knows you ask for everything then compromise, not the other way around. I'm glad for what we have but don't know where it's going to lead us.

[Techn0Girl]

292. The reason is because everyone is really working on the same team.....

for the same masters.

Wake up.

[defendandprotect]

295. When Obama wants to MOCK universal health care for all which every nation has ... then...

I think it's Obama who needs to "wake up!" --

Do we need to recite the suffering of so many Americans for DU to see

the cruely and callousness of this remark???

[Zorra]

312. The alternative...could it be...SATAN?

Yuh, yuh, I know, don't worry I'm gonna vote for Democrats like I always have and we did get a few decent minor changes, blahblahblah, but...

How come he's not chastising the conservadem blue dogs that compromised with republicans and the economic royalists and turned all the bills into white bread soaked in warm, slightly sour milk? I mean, they're the one's that consistently ally themselves with with the "alternative". It sure ain't liberals forever kissing republican ass.

Funny, I don't ever remember President Obama complaining about conservadems siding with republicans and watering down the bills, or telling them to "wake up" when what they should have been doing was joining with real Democrats in pushing through genuinely powerful, sweeping legislation. I seriously wonder why this is. Those bills could have been soooo much more beneficial to the majority of us if the blue dogs hadn't sold out.

Why is the WH always denigrating liberal Democrats?

Bipartsanship...:puke:

The one and only place a Democrat can meet halfway with a republican is on the road to hell.

[RussBLib]

316. Yeah, "wake up" to the fact that Obama is just ....

a kinder, gentler, smarter corporate clone a la George W. Bush.

We got fooled again.

[h9socialist]

317. JUDGING FROM THIS THREAD . . .

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce should be breathing a sigh of relief because it's opponents seem to want to fight each other more than their corporate tormentors.

Dammit! Obama is neither a savior nor a devil. He's a politician, for Chrissakes, and by definition politicians are never equal to their rhetoric! Is this some big shock to some you? On the other hand, how many affronted leftists complaining so loudly here had to figure out how to get this Congress to do something? When a minority of 41 can block an idea from even being debated, it seems that the problem might be a little more apparent. The system is rigged to make change very difficult. That problem started 223 years ago.

On the other hand, I'm reading left-liberals assailing liberals. Radicals assailing sell out social democrats. People who were arm and arm two years ago, are now at each other's throats. All because this wasn't in the bill or that wasn't. Who ever thought this was going to be an apocalypse had their head up their ass in the first place!!!

This is a LONG struggle comrades! Their are many battles on many fronts and many levels. I've been around the socialist and progressive movements now for over 40 years, and I have yet to find anyone who had so much wisdom as to be immune from criticism, or unchallengeable in their strategic brilliance.

The truth is that the LEFT, when all is said and done is about some form of socialism. And socialism, in one form or another is about people being able to overcome their differences and live together in a functional way. The debate going on in this thread doesn't give me much hope for the Left.

HERE'S THE DEAL: Obama has disappointed a lot of people on the Left, has been slow to get away from some of Bush's excesses, and has compromised on some things that are near and dear to the Left. ON THE OTHER HAND: Nothing was going to get done without some compromise, and a nation like the U.S. can't turnaround on a dime. A freight train hurtling along at 90 miles per hour doesn't take hair-pin turns too well. Changing from 30 years of Reaganism to a new age of McGovernism is not a quick process.

BUT there are good people who are part of the radical left, and part of the center-left, and yes even part of the Administration. And they all have a role to play. If we keep up this pissing match, and become as dogmatic as the Republicans we will lose everything. I suggest we consider that there are problems with too much compromise and too little. That people who agree on the aim can differ on choice of tactics and strategy. And that none of us are above a little self-criticism and humility.

[Techn0Girl]

322. I'm not sure what kind of "socialist" you are....

... and by the way, just using the term "comrades" doesn't make you one ... but a real socialist would not tolerate any party that puts Capitalists above the working man. A real socialist would understand that socialism is NOT "about people being able to overcome their differences and live together in a functional way." as you state but rather getting the working class out in the streets and/or into the voting booths to do what it takes to overcome the income inequity and quality of life inequity imposed by the wealthy class.

A real Socialist would not tolerate throwing the Public Option under the bus to appease Big Pharma.

So I'm not sure what kind of socialist you happen to be but it's not the kind I am used to talking to .

We all came together two years ago and look where are we now?

[Name removed]

319. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.