Peter Jackson threatens Hobbit shutdown

[closeupready]

Source: BBC

Film-maker Peter Jackson has warned that production on The Hobbit movies could cease over a pay wrangle with acting unions.

The Lord of the Rings director, who is the films' executive producer, said it faced being shut down or moved from its location in his native New Zealand.

In an open letter, Jackson said shifting the entire project to eastern Europe "could so easily happen".

Unions have urged actors not to work on the films due to the dispute.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11417340

---

Disappointing. If he does move to Eastern Europe as a means of not negotiating with the actors' union, I will not watch the film.

[supernova]

1. What's the nature of the disagreement?

To me so far, It looks like PJ is walking into an existing squabble that GDT left. Plus the studio hasn't said it will put up the money yet.

[Evasporque]

2. Actors wanted free second breakfasts....

crispy bacon and fresh tasty sausages....

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

3. .

:spray:

[Bluenorthwest]

6. The article, even the posted excerpt states that it is a pay dispute

and Jackson, a man who made hundreds of millions of dollars off this story, not his own story, is whining about having to pay a fair share to the very bottom end of the pay chain.
He's Union busting scab covered scum, and I'll never watch another film he makes.

[Codeine]

PO! TAY! TOES! nt

[BootinUp]

24. lol. nt

[tammywammy]

50. Win!

[BlueIris]

57. DUzy. nt

[closeupready]

4. You have read more about it then I have it seems - I thought it was merely

a disagreement about pay and working conditions?

[Bluenorthwest]

10. You should know that the actors in question here are not the stars

The stars will shoot the film with high pay and great working conditions wherever they shoot, NZ, Romania, Las Vegas, no matter. This is about actors with smaller roles, which of course is the bulk of the talent Jackson needed to make his films out of a story he did not write. He can not act them, he did not write them. Yet he feels that he should make hundreds of millions, and others should not get a share they think is fair. He is willing to blow the already established setting of the film, just to keep more money for himself, and he is already richer than God's dog.
While it is fun to snark at actors, as folks in this thread do, the vast majority of professional actors do not even make a living in the craft, and have to support it with other work. Jackson expects them to sacrifice their jobs to do low paying service to his for profit fantasy film that the world really does not need at all.
Jackson has already driven off del Toro, a great director, because he is unable to do his part as producer. So he lost the director, now he wants to cut off his locations and talent pool just to eeck out more millions for Peter Jackson.

[closeupready]

11. Great points.

n/t

[L.Torsalo]

25. Mr. Jackson's Trilogy

was stupendous! I recognize even some of the bit players in commercials and TV appearances, though out of costume it's hard to compare...anyway, as a lifelong artist, not well off but had great times and memories, I would demure to the director in this case. i don't normally side against my fellow workers, but the films are excellent vehicles for future work. Seriously. I hope you won't read me wrong, but we artworkers are accustomed to such trade-offs...Peace and here's hoping Jackson can be a bit more reasonable and the actors also.

[lunatica]

37. We artworkers accustomed to such trade-offs?

You do mean used up and spit out right? Sorry, but you're really a masochist if that's what you do. For myself, I was forced to find another line of work since the rip off was fucking blatant and thorough enough that making a living was impossible.

Your 'love for the craft' is not so admirable when you can't eat or pay the bills for work it's taken you a lifetime to perfect.

Jackson will make his millions whether he pays the actors and artists or not. What skin is it off his nose?

[Javaman]

45. Trade offs?

you worked in the biz and you think we are accustomed to trade offs?

You must have not been union, because the union negotiates everything, nothing is a "trade off".

The actors require a minimum to maintain their benefits. That is not a trade off.

wow.

[Javaman]

41. While that may be true...

I have a feeling that Jackson is going over budget. When a film starts to get "shaky" budget-wise, the money people are called in to look at the books.

It's then that the director usually starts throwing things overboard to make budget.

If he doesn't, the money folks have every right to take the film away from him and assign another director. Which is never a good thing for the original director.

So when the pressures of production and budget begin pressing down on any director, the first thing they usually sacrifice at the altar of art is the salaries of the various players. They rarely if ever cut the crew salaries, because the crew will just work slower and the directors know that, where as the smaller roles can be replaced.

But since this issue is regarding the actors union in NZ, it may have to do, also, with location budget breaks as well. Not sure. But I digress.

So he makes this kind of statement, which in the grand scheme of things, being Peter Jackson or not, isn't the brightest move in the world, because, even if he did follow through with moving the production to Europe, he will have effectively shot himself in the foot reputation-wise. And that, in the long run, carries far more weight among the film community than any film he makes. The public cares about the film, the executive producers (he's not the only one) care about making money, but it's the crew and actors that will have second thoughts later on about working with him, if he makes this move.

So while this kind of headline catches everyones eye, the reality is: this is just a negotiation type of statement. This is how it's done. An agreement will be worked out. They actors will get what they want, and Jackson, perhaps a little lighter in the wallet, will get what he wants.

It's all part of the Hollywood charade.

[atreides1]

14. Found this in another article

"...an Australian-based union has called for an international boycott of the much delayed production of “The Hobbit” movie in New Zealand."

'The reputed media sources reported that the makers of “The Hobbit” has refused to enter into a union negotiated agreement and it advised members not to accept work on the planned two-film prequel of “The Lord Of The Rings” which was supposed to be filmed in New Zealand.'


"The Australian federation are of the opinion that the actors taking part in “The Hobbit” has no guarantees of minimum wages. "


http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/entertainment/the-international-federation-of-actors-calls-for-an-international-boycott-of-the-hobbit_100435378.html

[L.Torsalo]

26. If this is accurate,

then Mr. Jackson needs to be taught a lesson. Below minimum, how Repuke of him. I wouldn't work for him, even if fame was the payoff. This type of practice screws us ALL.

[hughee99]

28. As I understand it, I haven't seen the workers are actually being paid

below minimum wage, just that since there's no union, there's no contract that would guarantee wages. Is this a case of Jackson actually screwing the workers, or is it just a case where they are trying to organize these non-union workers? I'm not sure.

[Javaman]

42. Not knowing how the unions work over there...

but here with SAG, there is a union minimum that is always agreed upon then negotiated, usually, from there up.

I am, needless to say, behind the union. The minimum here means: that the wage will cover all of the actors benefits, plus minimum wage for part or hours worked.

So while mr. jackson refuses to pay the union minimum, the actors have every right to be pissed.

Believe me when I say that SAG minimum for a non-speaking roll isn't all that great, but it does cover benefits.

And since these are "extras" and union rolls, trying to pay these actors lower than minimum is, frankly, insulting.

Incidentally, extra pay can be anything from free to anything the production wants to pay them. It's only when they have a line, a close up or a part that becomes intrinsic to the story that their status changes.

[hughee99]

55. As I understand this, it's not an issue with Jackson refusing to pay the union minimum

There are some "extras" that are union, and they are paid according to union negotiations, there are a bunch of "extras" that are not union members, and the union is seeking to negotiate for them as well, which under NZ labor law, is not permitted. These actors have the option to join the union, but have not. I don't know why that is. It could be because joining the union may threaten their jobs because Jackson doesn't want to pay union wages, or it could be because the job pays well anyway and they don't want to have to give up any money to the union when they already think they're getting a fair deal. If I recall correctly, for LOTR, Jackson (or the studio) created a pool from the movie profits to be split among the union employees (which he had to do by agreement) but he/they also created a second pool for the non-union employees which they were not required to do.

[Javaman]

56. Some people in the biz don't join the union because they don't

get enough work to justify it.

Could be just "environmental extras". Or just the locals out for a little temporary fame.

After reading more about this, I think his threats to move to eastern europe are just of the idle kind.

This will be sorted out. It's just the back and forth BS between producers trying to cut the budget in various areas to either save money or move money into FX.

I'm really beginning to think this was a whole lot about nothing and just a negative story to generate "buzz". More Buzz equals better chances of it coming to the screen. And given the short history this has had trying to get it made, I think this story only highlights the fact that it will be made but then need more of the kind of ground swell that had with lord of the rings.

[MilesColtrane]

35. We musicians have a saying about working for substandard wages for "the exposure".

You can die from exposure.

[Javaman]

43. Exactly.

As I would always say to anyone who was "breaking into the business", never work for free...unless it's your own project. :)

[kenfrequed]

5. considering...

The absolutely absurd amount of money made over his first three films, I have no sympathy for him and will avoid the film if he jumps over to eastern Europe to save money.

[and-justice-for-all]

15. New Line kind of short changed Jackson on certain revenue

aspects of the films.

[kenfrequed]

17. Err...

1) How much did he make of the rings trilogy?

2) How much did New Line bilk him for?

3) What part of it is the actors fault?

[LanternWaste]

23. it does seem to beg the question you originally implied...

it does seem to beg the question you originally implied... How much did Jackson make? Additionally, was that amount in line with other directors of the same marquee billing at the time? What was New Line's take? What part is currently Jackson's fault?

[Recursion]

33. I never pass up an opportunity to be pedantic

http://begthequestion.info/

[kenfrequed]

38. He made about ten million for directing those films

The question might have been rhetorical or leading but I didn't think it fit a textbook definition of 'begging the question.' As to how much he made, I don't think ten million is a pittance and I don't think that it was the fault of the actors if Jackson got screwed by New Line.

[Javaman]

44. He made 10 million upfront, but made out like a bandit on the backend.

he could have retired 100 times after those films. He's still raking it in.

[Recursion]

7. Tricksy actorses. We hates them, don't we, precious?

[Kolesar]

9. good one

and #2 also

[Fearless]

13. +1

[WCGreen]

21. Smegal is nos actor, Semgal is special effect...

I know there is a guy, just kidding...

[XemaSab]

27. +1

:D

[Kolesar]

8. LOTR made me want to cry during those war scenes

because our damned country was just starting a war.

[John Kerry VonErich]

34. To a majority of viewers, that was the fun of it.

nt

[Kolesar]

52. I recall my coworker being all excited about smart bombs hitting Iraq

...in 1991. "People are dying there"

[John Kerry VonErich]

54. was talking about LOTR

nt

[Drale]

12. The movie is going

to go the way of the Halo movie and Duke Nukem forever, all three will never get made. "( Which is sad because at least The Hobbit and Halo would be great movies, as for Duke Nukem I didnt like the other games so I cant say.

[Shipwack]

18. Actually, Duke Nukem has gone from "canceled" back to "in production"

From the wikipedia article (yes, it's wikipedia, but I didn't feel like searching for the primary sources...)

"The game was officially re-announced at the Penny Arcade Expo 2010 on September 3, 2010.<69><70><71> It was the first time in the game's development history that gamers were able to actually try the game - according to Pitchford, "the line has gotten up to four hours long to see the game".<68> On the final day of the Penny Arcade Expo during the Gearbox Software panel it was announced that the company has bought the Duke Nukem intellectual property from 3D Realms and 2K Games now holds the exclusive long-term publishing rights of the game.<72><73>

It has since been officially confirmed that development has been almost completed with only minor polishing to be done,<74> before the game is released in 2011.<73><75> Pitchford has stated that a playable demo will be released once they figure out the timing.<68>It was later revealed that DNF will be released on February 2, 2011."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Nukem_Forever

Flying sausages for everyone!

[Drale]

19. I heard that

but I still doubt it will ever be made.

[Recursion]

22. The engine has been available to testers as an alpha for a while

It looks pretty good.

Note my avatar; draw your own conclusions about platform support.

[Dappleganger]

31. It'll be made, just not in this economy.

When Guillermo del Toro pulled away from the project he was very concerned about the studios unwillingness to fund it as promised, when promised. So it's not really the actors who started these problems but the production companies who were afraid to commit.

[Javaman]

46. Spot on...

Jacksons comments come to me as someone trying to cut corners.

when you don't have the money, you try to screw the lower folks on the totem pole.

it's an old crappy hollywood tradition. Luckily, these folks are in a union.

[tkmorris]

32. Duke Nukem Forever is being polished right now

Gearbox took over development and Take-Two Interactive will be publishing it. It will be out by Q3 2011.

[MilesColtrane]

16. Eastern Europe has rapidly become the outsourcing center for the arts.

it's the new New Delhi.

Many movie scores are recorded over there to avoid paying union wages to orchestras in the U.S.

How much longer before Jackson reimagines his trilogy with Sauron as the poor, misunderstood protagonist fighting against the greedy, little furry footed Hobbits?

[kenfrequed]

20. More likely...

He would make Sauron into an ayn rand cartoon character villain. Maybe Smaug will speak about how glorious collectivism is. Though really if you look at Saruumans speach to the hill people before sending them off it is possible he already was commenting in this manner.

[JoeyTrib]

29. That's rough

:(

[Javaman]

47. Why rough?

The actors union has a minimum wage so that the actors benefits are maintained.

[wickerwoman]

30. More details from the NZ Herald:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/movies/news/article.cfm?c_id=200&objectid=10676360

"MEAA national director Simon Whipp said actors could be let go with just one day's notice, and there were concerns producers would not pay fees in standard union contracts, such as payments from DVD sales."

"The MEAA has been struck off the register (of NZ incorporated societies) for failing to file any reports in the last three years, which is one reason that the production company can't enter into any agreement with it."

"Executive producer of the films Sir Peter Jackson said in a statement that he was "not anti-union in the slightest" and he always honoured actors' union conditions. "I can't see beyond the ugly spectre of an Australian bully-boy using what he perceives as his weak kiwi cousins to gain a foothold in this country's film industry. They want greater membership, since they get to increase their bank balance."

"If The Hobbit goes east - Eastern Europe, in fact - look forward to a long dry big budget movie drought in this country," Sir Peter said."

Looks like the Eastern European "threat" is taken out of context. It seems like what he's saying is that he wants to film it in NZ but if he can't there will be serious consequences for the film industry.

[Nihil]

36. Oh stop it with your facts ... you'll put the moaning buggers upthread right off their stride!

> "MEAA national director Simon Whipp said actors could be let go with just one
> day's notice, and there were concerns producers would not pay fees in standard
> union contracts, such as payments from DVD sales."

So nothing has actually gone wrong, no actors have actually been let go,
it is just the MEAA being "concerned" ...

> "The MEAA has been struck off the register (of NZ incorporated societies) for
> failing to file any reports in the last three years, which is one reason that
> the production company can't enter into any agreement with it."

... and it is actually the MEAA who are to blame for the lack of an
agreement because it is the MEAA who are failing to do their job.

[Javaman]

48. There has to be more to this...

For the MEAA not to file for three years is very odd.

They might have been "lazy" but frankly, an organization of it's stature just doesn't "forget" to file.

There is more to this.

[Supersedeas]

40. good catch and thanks for the link

[supernova]

51. Thanks wickerwoman and Nihil

that's more like what I was looking for up thread.

If I were an uncontracted actor working on The Hobbitt, I'd be a bit concerned that MEAA really has my best interests at heart. I'm sure the actors know which guild is better suited to their needs.

What's this about not filing for the past three years? There's more going on there. If they are not exactly upfront about their business practices, I don't blame PJ for not wanting to deal with them.

I'd like to hear from one or some of the actors that this squabble pertains to.

[wickerwoman]

53. PJ explains more in this statement:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1009/S00283/statement-regarding-the-hobbit-and-claims-by-meaa.htm

There's a lot more detail on the relationship between NZ Actors Equity and MEAA.

Here's the "could easily move to Eastern Europe" quote in context.

"I also feel a growing anger at the way this tiny minority is endangering a project that hundreds of people have worked on over the last two years, and the thousands about to be employed for the next 4 years. The hundreds of millions of Warner Brothers dollars that is about to be spent in our economy.

- why is this endangered? Because the "demands" of MEAA cannot be agreed to, or even considered - by law - and therefore the only options that remain involve closing the Hobbit down, or more likely shifting the production to Europe. It could so easily happen."

"NZ law prohibits engaging in collective bargaining with any labour organisation representing performers who are independent contractors, as film actors clearly are. The NZ Commerce Act claims it would be unlawful to engage with an Australian Union on these matters."

So PJ isn't the stumbling block here. He can't legally sign a contract with them.

[Romulox]

39. The movie version of LOTR aren't really that good. Was hoping *somebody* else did the Hobbit

The Hobbit is a quieter, smaller, less overblown story than LOTR. Jackson's "directing" has all the subtly of a ride at Disneyland.

[Javaman]

49. At least he cut the F-18 attack scene...

:rofl: