U.K. police 'deeply sorry' for cameras in Muslim neighborhoods

[sonomak]

Source: USA Today

British police apologized Thursday for a counterterrorism project that installed surveillance cameras in predominantly Muslim neighborhoods, saying that although the cameras had never been switched on, the program had damaged trust and caused anger in the community.

The surveillance program, which saw more than 200 CCTV cameras and number plate recognition devices put up in parts of Birmingham, central England, was conceived in 2007 after a series of terrorist plots were uncovered in the city.

Residents complained that they were not consulted about the program, and civil liberties groups protested that the measures were heavy-handed. Protests from human rights groups led police to decide not to begin using the cameras after an installation program was completed. Some have been covered with plastic bags to reassure locals that footage or license plate details are not being captured.

In 2006, police and intelligence agencies uncovered a plot in Birmingham to kidnap and behead a British soldier. The ringleader, Parviz Khan, was later sentenced to life in prison. The city was also the site of the first arrest in the U.K. of an al-Qaeda inspired terrorist — Moinul Abedin, who was detained in 2000 and later jailed, after security services uncovered a bomb factory at his home.

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-09-30-british-muslims_N.htm

[TheWatcher]

1. I'm sure they are just fucking heartbroken over the Matter.

They should apologize to the entire country for turning the UK into the World's Largest Police State.

I'm sure that's all just a HORRIBLE misunderstanding though.

:eyes:

[harun]

2. Don't they have camera's in just about everyone's neighborhood in the UK?

[AndyTiedye]

7. The Government Installs Cameras All Over the UK, Many Suffer from Spontaneous Combustion

http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm

[dipsydoodle]

20. I've seen a few off those

Even drove past one on the A40 while the fire brigade were puting it out on my way back from Cheltenham late one Sunday night

[dipsydoodle]

16. No they don't

other than maybe in shopping centres.

[cowcommander]

3. British police sure love to apologize to muslims a lot

[LanternWaste]

4. Guess they do it when there's a reason...

Guess they do it when there's a reason... dunno if two whole time is equivalent to loving it though. :shrug:

[Rebubula]

5. Geez

Thanks to the cowardly acts of a few people in the islamic mythology (I insult all religions equally - they are all myths), the police are now afraid of offending them for fear of a violent reaction. Looks like Al Queda won.

I agree with a poster upstream - they have these cameras freaking EVERYWHERE in London. Everyone is living big brother. Why should one group be exempt from this intrusion?

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. They're not 'exempt'

The specific purpose of these cameras was for counter-terrorist surveillance, with the areas chosen because of their high Muslim population. Cameras are uncommon in residential areas elsewhere.

These areas were "the focus of a large percentage of their counter-terrorist operations" and the system "was needed in order to carry out surveillance operations against identified suspects without having to follow them into and out of residential areas and therefore risk being compromised".

The project's funding, £3 million, was approved in March 2008.

In her review, Chief Constable Sara Thornton, of Thames Valley Police, said: "It was very clear from the documentary evidence that Project Champion was initiated as a counter-terrorist project but that senior officers saw the opportunity to improve the camera coverage in the area to reduce crime and disorder and improve community safety."

But she said project plans were not changed to reflect the new purpose, meaning "the crime reduction benefits that were being marketed would not have been delivered by the project".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-apologise-over-cctv-in-muslim-areas-2094167.html

[riderinthestorm]

14. Do you have a link that the cameras are uncommon in residential areas?

My daughter is living in the UK now and we've been there many, many times and commented on the cameras everywhere including the neighborhoods she's lived in (York, Teffont Evias and others - certainly not heavily Islamic neighborhoods by any means).

While I understand the purpose of the cameras is shitty, ineffective and haven't been proven to stop a single crime or terrorist attack - and furthermore let me add that I believe they are an incredible waste of time and energy and are too "big brotherish" for me - I wasn't aware they aren't in residential neighborhoods as a general rule.

I once read a stat in a London newspaper that estimated the average Brit was photographed something like 300 times in a day there.

I tried googling for a link that would substantiate your claim that they aren't prevalent in residential neighborhoods but couldn't find one. I'm really curious about it since, as I said before, that's not my impression nor is it the impression of most Brits that I know. Honestly, the cams are everywhere. Everywhere!

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. Well, I live here

Cameras are in commercial areas and public areas. When I walk down residential streets, I don't see cameras.

Anyway, the report states that the installation was not normal for a residential area. Surely people don't think the police are going to pretend they were discriminating, if they weren't in reality?

[dipsydoodle]

17. ditto

Generally speaking comments from the US about our cameras are out of place - there really are not that many outside the areas you mentioned apart from some high crime area council estates.

[riderinthestorm]

19. Oh, I believe they are/were being used for shitty reasons.

I completely get that. But I can't find anywhere that they are that uncommon in residential neighborhoods. As I said, I've personally seen them on residential streets - last time we saw them in York just in February when we visited. My 13 year old likes to mug for them and prance about when she sees them since its kind of a pet peeve of mine.

In the States it's a pretty big topic of conversation since Washington DC and other cities are moving to mimic the UK with the surveillance cams, which aren't good for anything really. And of course they also cite terrorism for the cams as well....

[riderinthestorm]

6. Then Muslim neighborhoods are the only ones WITHOUT cameras!

The UK has one of the heaviest surveillance camera installations across the country, more than virtually anywhere else on the planet. It's notorious for this.

[Freetradesucks]

9. Exactly. This is ridiculous.

nt

[JCMach1]

11. +1 they are freakin' everywhere

[dipsydoodle]

18. You've been reading too many comics.

.

[riderinthestorm]

21. Nope, just speaking from experience.

Do you have a link that indicates that cameras aren't in residential neighborhoods in the UK? Muriel Vogelstrander was going to provide one but she hasn't yet - perhaps you could? I've seen them. I know they are there. Of course I haven't been in ALL UK neighborhoods, I can only testify to what I've seen.

Here in the US they are moving to install the cams too and I don't like it one bit. They are also citing terrorism as the reason for it. There are Americans (well, I'm actually a dual citizen Irish and American but still for the purposes of this convo...) who ARE interested in the issue you know.

[dipsydoodle]

22. Where did you go in the UK ?

Trust me - outside of some high crime area council estates and maybe some private estates we don't have them in residential areas : certainly not down south where I am. Apart from that you can't search a negative. I'm in Hertfordshire and I've never seen any cameras outside of shopping centres and speed cameras etc. Even our speed cameras have now become almost defunct.

btw I don't think Muriel is actually a "she" Muriel Volestrangler is one of John Cleese's nom de plumes.

[riderinthestorm]

24. I usually default to "she" when I don't know the gender of a poster

since I'm female too.

My daughter lived in York for a little more than a year getting her masters in medieval archaeology, we visited twice for 3 weeks at time. She lived for a month in Teffont at the archaeological dig there. We rented a house in Stamford for a month around the Burghley horse trials. My husband is an international event rider, he and my youngest daughter spent 3 weeks in Cumbria while he took a saddlery repair course there. Of course the UK is one of the best places to get event horses (well, behind Ireland of course - I'm not biased, heh) so we're there more than the average person.

The cams are a sore spot for us since they are getting installed in the US under the guise of "preventing terrorism". What shite. And I blame it all on you Brits for leading the way (just kidding, kinda).

[dipsydoodle]

25. I think what we've got here has been overblown by the press

for whatever reason. Aside from maybe the financial district of the the City of London , c. one square mile , broadly speaking whatever cameras we've got are for crime prevention and detection - not terror related.

Years ago one of my old school friends was joint owner of Mary Thompson King's horses - something like that anyway. Assuming she hasn't retired , we're both 66 , I think she still goes to such events running hospitality suites whatever.

:hi:

[riderinthestorm]

26. The Brits just took the dressage Silver at the World Equestrian Games here in Lexington KY

Their first medal ever in dressage. What a coup. The Germans took third in "their sport". Eventing dressage starts tomorrow. I'm actually typing this from a friends house in Lexington KY since we've come down to watch.

Mary King is a great rider. Women absolutely compete on a level playing field in the horse sports. They are equally as dominant as the men. As the mother of two daughters (who ride but not at that level), and married to a guy who also competes professionally, I love the fact that the sport is the rare one in which men and women compete right alongside each other. It's brilliant.

And as the "business side" of my husband's barn - can I get an intro to your wealthy event-investing friend??!! Heh, just kidding and I mean it this time! :hi: back actcha.

[Turborama]

10. And the Islamophobes come out of the woodwork

Again.

[Rebubula]

12. Where?

Please elaborate....

[tomm2thumbs]

13. the cameras don't have to be 'switched on' they run once they are plugged in -I bet they used 'em

or they gave the keys to the U.S. - but to say they were never 'switched on' is a technicality and I don't buy it. Covering them with bags? Guess they didn't feel the need to just take them down - so much for showing their honest intent about whether the cameras would remain.

duh

[Taverner]

23. Hell, in the UK EVERY neighborhood is monitored

They have the most invasive technology at work around the city

[Nihil]

27. You lot do talk absolute bollocks about stuff that you don't know.

> Hell, in the UK EVERY neighborhood is monitored

100% bullshit.

That comment to a UK resident would be like a US resident reading
that "Hell, in the US EVERYBODY carries a gun openly all the time".

Both are meaningless hysterical over-generalisations from specific
yet comparatively rare factual evidence.

NONE of the various places where I've lived (or where any members
of my family lived FWIW) have had their "neighbourhood monitored"
by the state/police/secret service/customs & excise.

There are police cameras in most town centres (near shops that can
be broken into and near pubs/clubs/football grounds or other such
potential sources of violent crime). If you live in the street
near one of those places, I suppose you could potentially claim that
"your neighbourhood was being monitored" but you would be acting
paranoid if you thought that your house was the reason for the camera.

There are also traffic cameras on major interchanges (again, as seen
in your major cities) and these are used by radio stations for traffic
alerts - many of the cameras are directly viewable by the public - as
well as for emergency service response. We don't tend to have many
people living on such junctions so I doubt many people could use those
cameras to support their "monitoring" claims.

CCTV cameras are popular with some businesses for anti-crime reasons
(e.g., in your all night stores, fuel stations, etc.) so you can see
a whole bunch of them if you walk around the business area of a city
(for example) or if you walk around the inside of a major station.
If you are "being monitored" by the camera in your petrol station or
your all-night Tesco Express then take it up with the owner of said
establishment as the state has sod-all to do with it.

These are nothing to do with the "state surveillance", "invasive technology"
or "police state" hysteria that appears from West of the Atlantic on these
threads.

[Name removed]

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