Man(on Jet Ski) Killed by Mexican Pirates on Texas Lake

[RamboLiberal]

Source: ABC News

Search teams are combing a Texas lake for the body of a man who was allegedly shot and killed by Mexican pirates when he and his wife were ambushed after crossing into Mexican waters on their personal watercraft.

David Michael Hartley, 30, and his wife Tiffany Hartley, 29, were attacked on Falcon Lake, near the southern tip of Texas, police said.

Tiffany Hartley told police her husband was shot in the back of the head as the couple fled to U.S. waters.

The gunmen are suspected to be Mexican pirates who have been marauding on the lake, law enforcement officials said.


Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/mexican-pirates-shot-tourist-head/story?id=11784598

[DCKit]

1. Ok, I'm done for the night...

I'm actually imagining your OP was titled "Man(on Jet Ski) Killed by Mexican Pirates on Texas Lake" and I just can't go there.

It's like we're still living under BushCo* with no options.

[ManiacJoe]

11. The truth is not always pretty.

The OP is correctly titled.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pinboy3niner]

19. MEXICAN pirates!! On a TEXAS lake!!1!

Oh noes!!1! Nice bit of inflammatory reporting. Sounds like we're being invaded. So what is a local problem becomes a national news item, and a subject of hysterical reporting on RW blogs and talk media.

Welcome to DU, kidsguitarlesson! :hi:

[Bobbieo]

26. It's hard to go there if you haven't been there!

[timo]

45. thats how

it went down

[MrScorpio]

2. "Mexican Pirates"?!?

Is this a new thing?

[htuttle]

7. I wonder if they dress like giant bees?

[sakabatou]

24. ...

[SusanaMontana41]

75. ROFLMAO! n/t

[ManiacJoe]

12. IIRC, started in the last year or so.

[AnneD]

32. They have been using subs...

in some areas to get their drugs across on the west coast. And yes, this is fairly new but happening more and more. As they crack down (no pun intended) in Az, it is getting wilder here in Texas. It is turning into a real frontera. I would rather have the illegals looking for a job any day of the week than these gun toting thugs. I don't like to go to south Texas and across the border any more-it is just too dangerous.

[undeterred]

43. He was doing Mexican Pilates on a lake?

Sounds dangerous.

:hide:

[timo]

46. no

they have been robbing boaters for some time now

[Lance_Boyle]

61. Not new at all - they have plagued the Playa del Carmen --> Cozumel ferry route for decades.

The venturing into freshwater lakes shared with the US is sorta new, but piracy in Mexican waters is not. Not by a long shot.

[Hangingon]

64. No. Violence on Falcon lake has been growing

[pinboy3niner]

3. "Illegal Border-Crosser Killed by Pirates on Mexican Lake"...

...would be another way to put it.

[Renew Deal]

4. Or "Lost boater shot by gangsters on US-Mexican lake"

:shrug:

[kurtzapril4]

10. You've got to be kidding.

YEAH, cuz that's the way things should be dealt with, right?

Should we kill "illegal border crossers" too? On our lakes? And I guess you're pro-pirate?

[pinboy3niner]

16. "Texas Lake" is just as inaccurate as "Mexican Lake"

It's a lake on the international border, or as Renew Deal terms it in Post #4, a "US-Mexican Lake." Representing it as a murder committed by "Mexican pirates on Texas lake" is misleading, as if 'Mexican pirates' are intruding across the border to pillage and murder citizens in Texas.

News reports describe someone who crosses to our side of the border as an 'illegal immigrant' or 'illegal border-crosser,' even when the individual clearly is not immigrating.

I apologize if my point was unclear. I was mocking the skewed and often inflammatory way in which events like this are reported, not engaging in victim-blaming. Falcon Lake has a history of incidents like this--as well as a history of bad reporting of them . IIRC, Sean Hannity even weighed in once with a very misleading report on robberies on the lake.

No, I certainly don't advocate shooting "illegal border-crossers." But some commenters on RW blogs support that idea--at least on one of our borders.

:hi:

[Renew Deal]

5. There's only one way to deal with this

Of course all those ships would like like toy boats in a bath tub.

[Regret My New Name]

63. Well that explains this image taken shortly after that one...

[SusanaMontana41]

79. LMAO! That's for you too, Renew! n/t

[smiley]

89. I just spit my coffee out all over the table

wasn't expecting that pic at all!:rofl:

[catgirl]

6. Wait- she was driving, but somehow knew he was shot in the head?

This sounds very fishy. I hope the police think so too.

[X_Digger]

8. Didn't read the article, did ya?

"She went in the water trying to load up her husband to her Jet Ski ... trying to get his body and Jet Ski back to the U.S. side."

[ronnie624]

33. I wonder how she found the time to do that

with "pirates" in hot pursuit, shooting at her.

[SusanaMontana41]

76. Isn't that a puzzle?

All sobs; no tears. Haven't seen acting this bad since Susan Smith killed her children. If memory serves, she also blamed a dark-skinned man.

Just sayin' ...

[catgirl]

39. I didn't see the bottom part of the article

... below the ads. Relax.

[SusanaMontana41]

78. I read it. Even watched a couple of interviews.

So what happened to the Jet Ski? Did the pirates sink it?

She also praised God that she was alive. Didn't God like her husband?

This doesn't pass the smell test.

[petronius]

31. There have been plenty of stories over the years about partners murdering

the other during remote activities (the scuba diver, Gabe Watson, always comes to my mind) so I thought that at first too. However, there has been a lot of crime on those lakes in recent years, so I hope the police are keeping their minds wide open...

[Gman]

9. This story is very true and about 3 days old

The media is calling them "pirates" when gangsters would be more appropriate. The guy was shot and is presumed dead, the girl got away. This is not a new problem. It's been unsafe on Falcon Lake for the last several months now.

[virgogal]

13. I think murderers would be even more appropriate than gangsters.

[naaman fletcher]

14. unfortunetly

the unresolved immigration issue leaves everyone wondering what to do. The only proper response is for the coast guard to put some ships in the lake and blow the living sh*t out of these jerks.

[Tempest]

17. It happened in Mexican waters

Would you want the Mexican government to have the same power in the U.S.?

[UTUSN]

15. Gawker sounded uncharacteristically Wingnut on this topic & answered my e-mail

in which I said so to them, here (from near 48 hrs ago):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9233571

[pinboy3niner]

22. Thanks for the link, UTUSN

I remembered reading about the earlier incidents and how they were used by wingnuts like Hannity to inflame anti-immigrant and dire border violence hysteria, but couldn't find the links.

You're right--these incidents ARE being used to serve the RW agenda, and professional journalists should know better than to accept as gospel everything they're spoon-fed by biased sources.

:hi:

[UTUSN]

28. Thanks for your characteristic friendliness.Glad I didn't need a whupping in the brig this time!1nt

[pinboy3niner]

29. Didn't you get the memo? We Liberals call it BOAT JAIL now. :)

I crack up every time I think of Rachel calling it that! :rofl:

ETA link for anyone who missed this (the vid length is 2:40):

http://www.mefeedia.com/news/30148297

[HippieCowgirl]

20. I have a feeling about Miss Tiffany...

One of my friends thought of this and I agree., I would not be surprised if an insurance policy and a boyfriend on the side turn up.

[timo]

47. local radio

interviewed the sheriff and there were multiple eyewitnesses that saw her being chased and shot at??

[UTUSN]

51. Sheriff is attention whore for Minutemen; local radio = Faux affiliate for wingnuts

The term "John WAYNE" is not just a joke. The real WAYNE was one of the biggest chickenhawks who ever lived; played all these "tough" roles and did crap in WW II. That's why chickenhawks in the military or law enforcement are called John WAYNE. This sheriff is a John WAYNE.

See post #15 for his activities. Clue, he loves to be interviewed by HANNITY or young journalists from far ends of the country that swallow his hysteria whole.

I myself am not speculating about the wife, am focusing entirely on how the wingnuts/Tbaggers/minutemen/Faux use incidents like this to drive their fools into hysteria.

[timo]

53. whatever

until you live down here, dont act like you are an authority on what goes on along the border here, just this week we had 2 dead in brownsville that was a cartel hit, car jackings by undocumented visitors, and an international bridge shut down for several hours because the Mexican marines crossed the border.

http://www.themonitor.com/articles/brownsville-42117-public-asking.html
http://www.themonitor.com/articles/progreso-43268-bridge-environment.htmlhttp://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/authorities-117548-mexican-murders.html

[UTUSN]

55. Yeah, "whatever" - keep fueling the wingnut/T-baggers - how come you don't go hysterical and

MOVE?!1 You must be getting something from Governor Goodhair, HANNITY, Sheriff T-Bagger ---OR you've got a HEART!1 (courtesy of Frank LUNTZ who tells KKKarl and Shrub what HEART to use as a WORD)

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[K8-EEE]

80. Drug deal gone wrong?

There is something she's not telling. I'm just not buying that they crossed over into what IS quite a dangerous area "to take pictures of a church." The thing that got my BS meter up was that God told her to leave as 3 guys were shooting at her in the water. What? Who would need a message from God? Reminded me of acid girl, who as you recall, received word from God to buy sunglasses and credited that "miracle" to her being alive. Likewise wifey is like "it's a miracle! God told me to leave!"

I dunno -- did her and hubby have a drug deal gone wrong? I just think people think it's fishy because it sounds pretty fishy.

[yurbud]

21. I think this is how the Mexican American War started.

[Aristus]

23. The Mexican-American War started because President James Polk

coveted Mexican lands, and he knew that asking politely would just get him laughed at.

If only weapons of mass destruction had existed back then, Ole Polk-Head wouldn't have had to think as hard of an excuse...

[yurbud]

27. no war is about any particular offense, it's always about real estate, resources, cheap labor, or

markets.

[dave29]

38. or in the case of World War II

complete Global domination (guess that falls under real estate), with the side benefit of mass genocide against Jews, Gypsies and had they been there, probably Mexican Pirates.

[yurbud]

44. genocide just made our propagandists job easier. Even the Simon Wiesenthal Center

said the war wasn't about the treatment of the Jews, but the territorial ambitions of Hitler in Europe and Japan in Asia. Both were latecomers as world powers, trying to elbow their way to colonial trough and that would not be tolerated by those already feeding.

The real proof is World War I. Germany had similar goals of being the continental power and the US, Britain, France, and others opposed them even though they had the same form of government as Great Britain.

[Bonobo]

25. This guy?

I hear he was in Mexico recently...


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ic_kQKToQvs/TFyEb9ZTNYI/AAAAAAAAAe0/X4Bu9ycCk4w/s1600/kenny+powers+jetski.jpg

[marybourg]

30. Either I'm having a particularly vivid case of deja vu or we

had this story once before, a few months ago, and I believe it was discredited then.

[timo]

48. its deja vu

this happened

[UTUSN]

52. It ain't deja vu, It was fishermen in May crossing the borderline to the Mexico side.See post #15

[western mass]

34. People on jetskis don't usually carry cash or valuables

That's what makes this pirate story "odd".

[ronnie624]

35. And if she was being chased by "pirates",

and she was within range of their rifles, I wonder how she had time to turn around and attempt to rescue her companion.

Very odd, indeed.

This 'news' item will, no doubt, aid in whipping many people into a jingoistic lather.

[Haole Girl]

59. ronnie624 ~

This story does sound odd. And the news story, on our local news in N. Texas tonight, had an even odder twist. First they said the couple was "sight seeing" on the Mexican side of the lake. Then, the newscast mentioned how frightened the couple has been for their safety, and they were going to move away...but... wait for it... the couple wanted "one more time on the lake." Okay, I'm no Einstein, but something doesn't add up.

[Bobbieo]

36. Maybe the jet skiers got too close to a drug smuggling operation

[Strelnikov_]

40. Thats more likely, or

as the cop on the nooze report noted "the cartel members guarding the other side are very young". They may have been some of these having 'fun' taking pot shots.

But 'pirates'?

[timo]

49. more likely

they just wanted to steal the jet skis

[PavePusher]

54. "Jet skis" are valuble property.

So is "ransom", if that be the objective.

[countmyvote4real]

37. Really?

Tiffany probably has more ties to the Mexican pirates than her departed husband,

[timo]

50. jeez

yeah the ties she cultivated while working as a missionary in Mexico they only lived here for 6 months or so and were in the process of moving back....damn some people around here are heartless!!

[Trajan]

56. I understand your frustration ...

But, you have to admit ... Stranger things have happened ....

It would not be unusual for a spouse to kill another spouse, and blame it on some vague and nebulous outsider ... Then go on to collect insurance ...

This has happened for more than you may want to admit ....

The fact that eyewitnesses were present tends to give more credibility to her story .... as long as the eyewitnesses are unrelated and unknown to the parties involved ....

If that is the case, then the case FOR her is strong ... otherwise, it is just as suspect as any other similar case ...

You cant blame others here for being 'careful' ...

[snooper2]

60. +1000

For most ignorant post in the thread

[COLGATE4]

41. Call me cynical, but to me this whole thing just doesn't pass

the smell test. Why on earth would supposed 'pirates' shoot the guy instead of robbing the jetski first? Why would they shoot at him at all? Her story also strikes me as being a little unbelievable. We'll have to wait and see what details emerge but for now I reserve the right to be very skeptical of her story.

[Blue_Tires]

74. not to mention the fact that she escaped unscathed...

yeah, right...Pirates in three speedboats took out the husband with little effort, but let a single witness get away...

[uncle ray]

42. a fence would have taken care of this.

of course instead we'd be reading about a dead couple who ran their jet-ski into a concertina wire fence.

[Katya Mullethov]

72. From what I see , they are erecting one on the other side

Made entirely of corpses , ala 300 .

[RamboLiberal]

58. FWIW More on the story

Hartley did tell authorities after the shooting she got help from a man on shore. The Good Samaritan told deputies he saw the Mexican boats chasing her into US waters. CHANNEL 5 NEWS spoke to the man who stepped up to help Tiffany in those first terrifying moments after her husbands murder.

The Good Samaritan wants to remain anonymous because he fears for his life. He was on the west side of the lake. He goes there once a week, but for some reason he went twice this week.

For him it was just another day on Falcon Lake. The sky was clear, and there were people out having fun. Then, out of the blue he saw a jetski being chased by a boat. Everything would change for the Good Samaritan when he heard Tiffany Hartley rushing toward him. As she sobbed she told him her husband had been shot.

"She could see the gunshots wounds to his head. His brains were falling and he was not breathing," he said. The man tried to console her. She told him she and her husband David had gone to old Guerrro on the Mexico side of the lake to take pictures of a Spanish mission.

http://www.krgv.com/news/local/story/911-Call-Details-Murder-on-Falcon-Lake/uswGSvm9Hku0eC9foze9Yw.cspx

[raccoon]

62. These pirates were shooting at them, shot the husband in the head,

didn't injure the wife, nor was her jet ski damaged (at least the article didn't say it was).

And she WENT BACK under gunfire to try to get him on her jet ski?

I don't know...maybe they faked his death to get life insurance, or she had him snuffed.

Another thing, why does the sheriff say, we can't do anything to try to find his body? Can't Texas's senators or the famous pResidential family from Texas, the Bushes, pull some strings and get the Mexican authorities to look for the body?

[Blue_Tires]

77. the last thing the poor widow wants is the body found for an autopsy

the body is probably at the bottom of the lake chained to a cinder block or something....

[K8-EEE]

82. Or a drug deal gone wrong?

Her thing on Fox where she's all like WE WENT TO TAKE PICTURES OF A CHURCH BECAUSE MY HUSBAND LUUUUVED HISTORY, MEXICAN OR U.S.!" That sounded fakey as well as "God telling her to leave" when there were 3 speedboats shooting at her, like you need a divine message to leave??

[TorchTheWitch]

87. she's a missionary

I wouldn't be surprising for a missionary to say that God compelled them to take a piss when their bladder was full especially if they can say it in front of a TV audience.

It wouldn't be surprising that she went back for the body since doing very illogical things even though they are very dangerous is very common in a moment of extreme crisis. Done such whackadoodle things in moments of extreme crisis myself.

I'm not seeing where all this condemnation of this woman is coming from. From all accounts it's a dangerous area where such things have happened before, and there are apparently several witnesses to the incident.

Man, some people fall all over themselves to find some conspiracy in anything.

[RamboLiberal]

65. Wife Of 'Lake Pirates' Victim Speaks Out As Mexican Authorities Question Story

In a statement also obtained by CBS News, Marco Antonio Guerrero Carrizales, district attorney for the Miguel Aleman Province in Mexico, said: "We are not sure. We are not certain that the incident happened the way they are telling us." The Monitor reports that "Guerrero said his office has not received any formal report from -- a necessary step to launch a formal investigation -- but looked into the matter amid pressure from state and U.S. authorities."

On The Early Show this morning, Hartley appeared with David's parents and sister. She responded to the Mexican authorities' statements.

On Fox and Friends, Hartley appeared alone. Host Gretchen Carlson asked Hartley to speak to the Mexican authorities statements. "Let me ask you this, Tiffany," Carlson said. "The Mexican authorities are claiming now that maybe this incident didn't even happen. How would you respond to them?"

"I can't imagine that," she said. "Because I loved him so much. He was my rock, he was everything to me. And I loved him, and there's no way I would do anything like that. I can understand, since they say they can't find the body -- but they're not looking, they're not looking for him. And that's what's frustrating, because we can't go over there to do it."

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/wife_of_lake_pirates_victim_speaks_out.php?ref=fpa

[Chan790]

66. Skeptical.

Nothing about this story passes the smell test. I'd be more likely believe her if she said aliens stole his body.

[nc4bo]

67. I'm feeling same as you.

Watching her on tv this a.m. sealed the deal for me.

I'd like to be proven wrong......but.

[lumberjack_jeff]

69. I believe her. n/t

[WeekendWarrior]

68. Does anyone else think this story is fishy?

If the wife was with him, why is she still alive to be a witness?

I'm just saying. My vivid imagination may be getting the better of me.

[harun]

70. I will be very surprised if we hear that is what really happened.

Certainly plausible the guy took pictures of something they didn't like and they thought he was something he wasn't.

[K8-EEE]

81. They wife was all "my husband watched Fox and Friends EVERY DAY"

She just wanted Gretchen Carlson to know that.....who in her situation would be saying shit like that? Is she runaway bride after being married a couple of years?

[laundry_queen]

84. My imagination is working overtime as well.

When I was watching her talk, the whole time that she was talking about how he was her rock and how much she loved him, she kept shaking her head like she was saying no. I read somewhere that people who are lying often shake or nod their heads in opposite of what they are saying. For instance, if someone says "There was no milk in the fridge" at the same time their head is going up and down in a nod, chances are there IS milk in the fridge and they are lying. I know it's probably not 100% but the more I hear about the story, the more I wonder.

[RamboLiberal]

71. David Michael Hartley Memorialized, Wife Tiffany Hartley Defends Herself Against Accusations

As she held a memorial service for her husband who was allegedly shot dead by pirates on the Mexican side of Texas' Falcon Lake, Tiffany Hartley addressed skeptics on both sides of the border who doubted her story.

"It's hard just to hear it," she told "Good Morning America." "But I can see it from their point of view. I can understand why they might think that, but it's not true. ... I would never even think about hurting my husband.

-----

http://abcnews.go.com/US/david-hartley-victim-mexican-pirates-falcon-lake-remembered/story?id=11808897

[Blue_Tires]

73. I think her "official" story will be revised in 48 hours...

[RamboLiberal]

83. Questions swirl

Rolando Armando Flores Villegas, the State Police commander overseeing the search, told Texas paper the McAllen Monitor on Monday that no one in the area had reported hearing jet skis or gunshots.

And the district attorney on the case, Marco Antonio Guerrero Carrizales, cast his own doubts on the story, pointing out that David's jet ski itself still hasn't been recovered, and his body is still missing despite the fact he was wearing a life vest.

Police "are not certain that the incident happened the way that they are telling us," Carrizales told the Monitor.



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/10/05/2010-10-05_question_swirl_around_alleged_pirate_shooting_at_mexico_lake_as_david_hartleys_b.html#ixzz11cLBmd00

Rick Perry going to have some egg on his face if this story is fabricated.

Perry had harsh words for reports that the Mexican government had raised doubt about Tiffany Hartley's story.

"That's not what I heard from (Mexico's) acting foreign secretary last night," Perry said. "And I think it's reprehensible. Anyone who says anything other than this was pirates or just criminal element out on that lake that killed an innocent American -- there is nothing there. We've asked all the right questions. Our sheriff has asked the right questions. Anyone who is trying to deflect off of what this actually is aught to be ashamed of themselves."

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/gov_perry_those_who_doubt_tiffany_hartleys_story_a.php?ref=fpb

[Katya Mullethov]

85. One can certainly feel ashamed

And still collect a pension . Or in this fellows case , one can feel ashamed and not be cut into 14 individual pieces and then strewn on a thoroughfare .

[Katya Mullethov]

90. Too late

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/12/texas.falcon.lake.head/index.html

(CNN) -- The severed head of the lead Mexican investigator in the Falcon Lake case, Rolando Armando Flores Villegas, was delivered Tuesday in a suitcase to the Mexican military, Texas Rep. Aaron Pena told CNN.

But a spokesman for the attorney general of Tamaulipas state in Mexico said he had not heard the report.

"We have nothing official," said Ruben Dario-Rios, the spokesman. "We have not heard any report about one of our investigators being killed. We have over 1,000 investigators working for the state."

[timo]

88. ?!?!?!?

if you were a simple rancher in an area that your local law enforcement freely admits is under the control of one of the most vicious drug cartels known to man....how "cooperative" would you be? the jet ski is in a barn or warehouse somewhere waiting to haul another load of dope into the U.S. which is why they were stolen......the group that runs that area the zetas are known to burn bodies to a crisp in drums of fuel known as the guiso or stew...maybe she is lying but just because the jetski and body havent been found does not make it SO.

[JI7]

86. kick

[slackmaster]

91. Sheriff says Mexican investigator was decapitated

AUSTIN, Texas — A Mexican police commander investigating the reported shooting of an American tourist on a border lake plagued by pirates has been decapitated and his head was found in a suitcase, a Texas sheriff says.

The death of Rolando Flores, commander of state investigators in Ciudad Miguel Aleman, was a message from gangsters for investigators to "stay out of their territory," Texas Gov. Rick Perry said. Flores was part of a group investigating the reported shooting of David Hartley on Falcon Lake.

"I think their attempt is to intimidate law enforcement, no matter who they are or where they are," Perry told The Associated Press.

Flores' decapitated head was found Tuesday in a suitcase outside a Mexican Army base, Zapata County Sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez told the AP....

For full copyrighted article, please see http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/oct/13/sheriff-says-mexican-investigator-was-decapitated/

[Katya Mullethov]

92. Has the Mexican AG gotten wind of it yet ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzYpADZiv00

/////"We have nothing official," said Ruben Dario-Rios, the spokesman. "We have not heard any report about one of our investigators being killed. We have over 1,000 investigators working for the state." //////

[slackmaster]

93. Yes, I have fresh video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXl1GkWWGmA