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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 12:40 AM
Original message
Move over the hawks, the Vulcans rule the White House roost
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040401/pl_afp/us_vote_iraq_vulcans&cid=1521&ncid=1480

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Many people focus on the so-called hawks around President George W. Bush but more attention should be given to the Vulcans, a pro-military group that runs US foreign policy, according to a new book.


The group that includes Vice President Dick Cheney, Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell and national security adviser Condoleezza Rice were given the name of the Roman God of Fire during the 2000 presidential election campaign, according to James Mann in his new book "Rise of the Vulcans".


"The word 'Vulcans' captured perfectly the image the Bush foreign policy team sought to convey, a sense of power, toughness, resilience and durability," said Mann, a former Los Angeles Times journalist who now works for the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.


The group, who also include Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, have made their mark with their strong pro-military bias.

more

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Insider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. anti-peace is more like it
and pro-military industrial complex, NOT pro-soldiers & families
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. That's the truth...given the lack of proper equipment, lack of decent
meals, pay fuckups, Chimpy trying to CUT their combat pay in the middle of the night (just because he dressed up to play GI George and said "Mission Accomplished," they are no longer in a combat zone, right??), lack of BushCo's respect for the dead and wounded and their families, the little imbecile's 'jokes' about WMDS damn that bastard...
makes me sick.
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Insider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. plus cuts in VA programs
how military-types don't see this is beyond me.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. Right wingers have even screwed up Spock.
Can't even watch Star Trek to escape these assholes.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Heh...
They can't even pick Star Trek themed names correctly. Surely, Romulans or Borg would be more appropriate.
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codegreen Donating Member (827 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. more like Cardassians to me... look at the occupation of Bajor/Iraq
these bastards and their smug supremecy... i hate them
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Centauri,
and Bush is playing the role of Londo Mollari.

Elric: As I look at you, Ambasador Mollari, I see a great hand reaching out of the stars. And I hear sounds; the sounds of billions of people calling out your name.
Ambassador Londo Mollari: My followers?
Elric: Your victims.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. The words "The Project for a New American Century" ...
Never once passed his lips ...

THAT elephant is gonna crush us ....
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pacifictiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
5. Who on earth came up with that name for them!
Haven't they ever heard of peaceful Spock?
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Eye and Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. They are self-described thus. Not Star Trek - think "volcano".
As in volcano spewing molten goo which destroys everything in its path.

"Vulcan is the Roman and Greek god of fire and the forge, and mythical inventor of smithing and metal working. His Greek equivalent is Hephaestus. His forges were under Mount Aetna on the island of Sicily. He was smith, architect, armorer, chariot builder and artist of all work in Olympus--dwelling place of the gods.

Vulcan is the son of Jupiter (Zeus) and Juno (Hera), husband of Venus (Aphrodite) and is considered to be one of the twelve Olympians. With the help of Cyclops, the one-eyed giant, he made the thunderbolts of Zeus, the weapons of Hercules, and the armor of Achilles."

http://www.vulcaninc.com/plt0p02.htm
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. But these guys HATE the environment
"The president's feet are not to touch the dirt."
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/newyork/columnists/ny-nybres113703317mar11,0,1118887.column?coll=ny-ny-columnists


and Vulcan has been known to do actual work.

Now, more than ever, the nation needs a leader. We need to know someone is at the helm through all of these crises.
It doesn't inspire much confidence in his efforts when I, as an American citizen, turn on the television and see news reports, one after another, detailing the nation's troubles, followed by stories about what the president is doing on his month-long vacation.
http://www.thelantern.com/news/2002/08/08/Opinion/Bushs.Vacation.Poorly.Placed.In.Bad.Times-260413.shtml

But then again, you did say that they were SELF-DESCRIBED....
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Eye and Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. As in my post below, typical frat-boy self-delusion - and incorrect.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
7. they are not pro-military
they have done everything in their power to destroy our military now and well into the future. they are not "vulcans"
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
9. In Star Trek, Vulcans were rational
Edited on Thu Apr-01-04 12:55 AM by daleo
These people are insane.

Or as Spock said: "Madness has no purpose, but it can have a goal."
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. Vulcans came from another planet
and Lord knows,
this lot believes they were fathered by angels and that they are divine.

Menawhile, back on earth,
Caligula and Dubya have a lot in common.
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keopeli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
11. I prefer Vultures.
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Eye and Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Vultures provide a necessary service. BushCo does not.
Vultures do not typically kill, BushCo does.

Vultures tend to clean-up after themselves and other creatures. BushCo tends to leave one helluva mess.

While there may be members of BushCo who physically resemble vultures, BushCo is not nearly so noble.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
12. If Cheney is Spock, then he's
Evil Spock.

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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
13. Bush Borg (pic)
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pacifictiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
17. now I understand.
just looked it up.
Vulcan - manufacturer of arms/armor for gods and heros. His smithy was under Mt Etna in Sicily.
Sounds like a term they would choose for PNAC/religious fundamentalist/military-industrial complex/white collar mafia.
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Eye and Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Yes, but PNAC got it wrong - there are no "Vulcans", only one Vulcan.
One Roman god named Vulcan, not a whole bunch. Typical under-educated frat-boys braggadocio, and incorrect at that.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Vulcan
Was I think,a lame god,
Don't forget flip side of Vulcan myth,it is when he is most arrogant,forgets wisdom,he gets careless,and he hurts himself badly with the tools of his trade.

Ironic don'tcha think?
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Eye and Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Vulcan made Achilles' armor. Spectacular, but ultimately uneffective.
Perhaps a bit like "shock and awe".
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. Maybe the intent was to make junior as our GOD?
Vulcan as; The god of fire and metalworking.

George Bush = God
Fire = Nuclear
Metalworking = ballistic missiles (Star Wars)
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Venus was forced to marry him, he was boorish
and stupid...

Just like the members of Vulcan.
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
25. How many groups do these assholes belong to?!?
PNAC/Likud
The Federalist Society
Vulcans
Carlyle Group

The list is getting long here. They really have all but become the Illuminati. It must be a penis-substitute thing: the more groups you belong to, etc.
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. 2 more
bilderbergers
skull and bones
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
39. 1 more
Bohemian Grove
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
27. Vulcans represent neocons? Not logical.
Edited on Thu Apr-01-04 07:05 AM by The Backlash Cometh
Vulcans were critical thinkers, which neocons are not. Logical processes are a big part of critical thinking, and they don't even mention logic as one of the qualities:

""The word 'Vulcans' captured perfectly the image the Bush foreign policy team sought to convey, a sense of power, toughness, resilience and durability," said Mann, a former Los Angeles Times journalist who now works for the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington."

On edit, they describe Romulans, more than Vulcans.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
29. Oh christ, some kiddie club runs the country
little kids prancing around with dangerous toys. as a mother of sons, I shall be a part of putting a stop to these Brats who are behaving like this.
assholes with toys and names for themselves.
or, as they were known by some previous administrations when Bush stole the office
"here come the crazies again".
I know BRATS when I see them. I know toys when I see them.
Its time for the grandmothers to take over and the mothers whose kids have been taken from us all .
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Remember the names that ENRON gave to their shell companies?
They gave them names that came directly out of Star Wars. American Psychos are running this country, not kiddies.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. I consider them little brats , psychos. kids.
Edited on Thu Apr-01-04 07:53 AM by Mari333
As a full time mom of 3 little boys at one time, I remember such behaviour..they made up names for their adventures and their little clubs with other boys in the neighborhood.
When they got out of hand (like when some of the other mothers and I found them throwing stones at cars ), we grabbed them by the scruff of their necks and dragged them into the house and let them mull it over whilst doing something positive like washing dishes and making amends.
Then we praised them when they behaved.
This is no different to me. These are BRATS who never had anyone make them behave, or instill an iota of ethics in them.
The Mothers of America need to whomp em now.
http://www.mfso.org
http://www.motherspeak.org
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. Truly, Mari. As a mom, the last thing I ever want to do is reward bad
behavior. You just can't! Which flies in the face of everything going on in Washington. I mean, the bad guys don't get fired when they screw up. The only time they even fire people is when they turn into good guys, and tell the truth. JEEZ! What do you do when you lie, these days? You get rich, famous, influential, powerful, and probably - your own radio or TV show. If you're in government, you get covered up for. What an example to point to, while trying to educate kids...

But then again, I'm still struggling to explain Selection 2000 to my kids, fresh from civics and current events study.
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Misinformed01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
32. "Vultures" is more appropriate here
"Vulcans" my ass.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
33. like unto gods
these folks are out of their ever loving gourds -- and we have the supremes to thank for this.
may they all see the other side of the door. buh-bye now!
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
34. It's obvious they aren't Vulcans...
I know what they are:


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GreatCaesarsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
35. from bulfinch's mythology
a son of Jupiter and Juno, husband of Venus, god of fire and the working of metals, identified with the greek Hephaestus, and called also Mulciber, i.e. the softener. His workshop was on Mount Etna, where the Cyclopsus assisted him in forging thunderbolts for Jove.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
37. Vulcan the new god of High Tech Warfare.
Edited on Thu Apr-01-04 03:33 PM by happyslug
The neo-cons see themselves as High Tech warriors, and since Vulcan was the god of technology, when the neo-cons call themselves the Sons of Vulcan they are calling themselves the master of Technology. To see how the neo-cons have transformed Vulcan from a mere maker of tools to their new god, lets look at some mythology AND a quick detour to Bismark's Germany (the High Tech location of the late 1800s).

Ancient Mythology varied from city to city let alone Country to Country so you had many stories of the gods (many of these stories in Conflict). This is further complicated for the power of each god changed over time (For example Venus was originally a goddess of the spring, but later absorbed the Powers of the Greek goddess Aphrodite and the two goddess became inter-changeable). This is further complicated by the different names given the gods by the Greeks and the Romans (For simplicity in this paper I will use only the Roman names, Venus instead of Aphrodite, Vulcan instead of Hephaestus, Jupiter instead of Zeus, Mars instead of Ares. Please note some gods and goddesses used the same name in both Greece and Rome, for example Athena and Hera).

As to his wife Venus, Vulcan was Jealous even for a god generally portrayed as even tempered (unlike the rest of the gods and goddesses). His marriage to Venus seems to a study in constrats, her outer beauty (But lack of Faithfulness) and his inner beauty (shown through his work) but outward ugliness. His faithfulness (The only story of him trying to seduce anyone was one attempt to seduce Athena, who rejected him, and that only as Venus had had several affairs with other gods and mortals) compared to Venus’s unfaithfulness (see http://community-2.webtv.net/Ace-Detective/Venus/ for details).

He did captured Venus and Mars in bed together with a net no one could break but even in that story the gods rebuked Vulcan not Mars or Venus for had Vulcan spent as much effort to keep Venus happy as he did to capture her and her lover, she would not have wandered. A lesson to all couples, that both must make efforts to make the relationship work out, you just can not assume because you are married that everything will work out). (See http://english.edgewood.edu/eng276hunter/276nvgow.htm For more details)

As to how Venus and Vulcan became husband and wife is a story of Venus’s one great weakness, her beauty and anything that enhanced her beauty. Athena would not marry Vulcan no matter what beautiful objects he presented her, but Venus wanted those items and agreed to marry Vulcan because of her vanity of her beauty and how the items Vulcan made enhanced her beauty (In some stories it is Venus who wants to wed Vulcan, so she can access his skills at making beautiful things for herself. In several Legends, Vulcan agrees to make things for his wife only after she agrees to sleep with him and she knew that to be the price even before she asks.)

The story of Vulcan/Hephaestus
http://www.webwinds.com/myth/hephaestus.htm

Mythology is a method of stating how you view yourself. The ancients viewed crafts as below the ruling class’s dignity but valued none the less (thus it is a “lesser” god that does the hard work of making tools not one of the greater gods). Mythology ha survived for the same reason, it is a method to show people ideas, thus why do the neo-cons think of themselves as “Vulcans”?

The only way I can view it is all of them identify with Bismark’s “Iron and Blood” comment and not enough Mythology (and even not enough Bismark as seen in Bismark’s famous comment “Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think hard before starting a war.”). Remember Vulcan was the god of making weapons but preferred peaceful living. What the Neo-cons want is to remake Vulcan (i.e. the neo-cons who control and make the weapons) into a war god whose weapons permit him to control the war, a view of Vulcan through the prism of Bismark’s Speech NOT of the mythology of god Vulcan.

Even with Bismark the neo-cons rewrite history to reflect what THEY want. For example Bismark’s quote should be “The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions . . . but by iron and blood”. While the neo-cons would agree with that quote, the neo-cons ignore the WHOLE context of that speech where Bismark was using Speeches and majority decision to AVOID the use of iron and blood. The speech was made to some right wing supporters in 1888 at the same time he was trying to work out an alliance (or at least an understanding) between Russia, Germany, Britain and the United States to act together and thus minimize the risk of war (It was a piece of bravado through out to his right wing supporters NOT a statement of what he really was doing) The above “alliance” was a policy goal of Bismark, but was abandoned by Kaiser Wilhelm II when he fired Bismark.

A German Fleet and such an Alliance were not compatible (Britian would Object) so Bismark opposed building a German Fleet (Perferred the money for the German Army OR domestic uses). The problem was that Kaiser Wilhelm II wanted a Fleet. Any Fleet would bring Britain and Germany into potential conflict and would thus end any possibility of the above alliance. As Bismark predicted just before his death the Policy of the Kaiser would Germany to disaster within 20 years (Bismark died in 1898, 20 years later Germany laid in ruin from WWI).

After German Unification the last thing Bismark wanted was War. He saw no gain for Germany in any War and did his best to avoid War after 1871 (Through he did use War to unite Germany under Prussia between 1862 and 1871). He made his Blood and Iron Speech as a piece of bravado to the right wing in Germany NOT to advocate the use of force, his actions show a sharp preference for Speeches and majority Decisions over War. Acts often speak louder than words and Bismark’s Action were one for Speeches and Majority Decisions NOT war.

On the other hand, the neo-con believe in Iron and Blood. The Neo-cons WANT war so to control the world, thus they view themselves as modern day Vulcans Making and controlling the Iron and Blood of war. A new Mythlogy for the 21st Century.

Other Famous Quotes from Bismark”

Politics is not an exact science.

People with weak stomachs should not watch laws or sausages being made.

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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
38. They should call themselves the 'Hooligans'
conveying the image of arrogance, greed, bravado, avarice, stubbornness, corruption...
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Love Bug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-04 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
40. Well, in St. Paul, this is what Vulcans look like:
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