China and US clash at climate talks; US negotiating stance deemed 'totally unacceptable' by China

[pampango]

Source: UK Guardian

after American climate envoy accuses delegates of trying to renegotiate Copenhagen accord

The world's two biggest carbon emitters clashed at UN climate talks in China today as the United States' top climate envoy accused his counterparts of trying to renegotiate last year's global climate agreement, and threatened to pursue alternatives to the United Nations negotiation track. China retaliated by calling the US's overall negotiating stance "totally unacceptable."

Jonathan Pershing, the US deputy special envoy for climate change, said the first three days of talks in Tianjin had yielded disappointing results because participants were revisiting old arguments over procedure rather than building on the Copenhagen accord. "What is frustrating in these negotiations is to see countries not using that as the basis, but relitigating things that we more resolved over the course of the Copenhagen negations," he said.

Given the slow rate of progress, Pershing said there was a concern that no agreement would be possible in Mexico (next meeting in Cancun in December). Echoing comments made this week by EU negotiators, he said it could damage the UN system. "It something to be considered seriously, because the process is going to be very hard-pressed to continue to meet and to continue to have these enormous sessions with a lot of people travelling to them unless we can use the process to good effect," he said. "It may mean that we don't use this process exclusively as the way to move forward."

While there is no suggestion of a full withdrawal from the UN process, the US appears to have hardened its position since Copenhagen amid rising domestic political pressure and the absence of climate legislation. China has responded in kind. Dropping the diplomatic language that characterised public statements on the first two days, Xie Zhenhua, the head of the host's negotiating team, made little attempt to conceal the target of his frustration.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/oct/06/china-climate-talks-us-negotiator

[Uncle Joe]

1. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, pampango.

[ej510]

2. Fuck China and their poor human rights record and their toxic imports!

[marketbreakaway]

3. How Can the USA Have a Negotiation Stance At All???

It seems to me that the cart cannot come before the horse. The "cart" in this case being the international treaty on climate change. The horse being a consensus.

Consensus Point One: Does CO2 cause the large global warming predicted by some climatologists or are there unmeasured attenuating factors such as increased cloud formation?

Consensus Point Two: If point one (above) is true, then will rising temperatures cause real harm on a global scale or are we merely going to see some local weather changes?

Consensus Point Three: If point two is true then what is the best solution carbon limits or would other solutions (such as the solutions in Freakanomics 2) be better suited to the problem?

Some people believe that the real goal of the climate scientists is the creation of a global government with the power to reward and punish. Some people, such as the members of the Club of Rome which include Bill Clinton, Al Gore and (believe it or not) Henry Kissenger (google it yourself people!) believe that a new world government is necessary combined with a new global education system. This last group sees themselves, unelected elites, as holding the power in such a new world order.

So, is "global warming" a matter of religion for you which requires immediate and severe action or do you think that the message is incomplete? Do you think that climate change is an excuse to create a world government or perhaps, you strongly agree that we need a world government? If yes, then how should such a world government be organized? Who gets the power?

Sorry, this is more of a rant than a question but I get so angry every time I read about Copenhagan and global warming and carbon emissions and people around the world acting like intelligent people everywhere agree that the only possible thing to do is to create global carbon limits. It most certainly is NOT the only answer.

JMHO

[Uncle Joe]

4. Your premise is distorted.

So, is "global warming" a matter of religion for you which requires immediate and severe action or do you think that the message is incomplete? Do you think that climate change is an excuse to create a world government or perhaps, you strongly agree that we need a world government? If yes, then how should such a world government be organized? Who gets the power?

All scientific messages are "incomplete" but the evidence for human aggravated global warming climate change is overwhelming and the repercussions will be devastating.

To believe that immediate and dramatic change is necessary equates to logic not religion.

Perhaps Michael Steele and the Republicans via trans-national/foreign corporations, the diplomatic corps and the Chamber of Commerce are interfering with these negotiations, in addition to illegally securing campaign money for the upcoming elections?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9265368

So companies in China are giving $ to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce in ....

..... order that they might buy ad time to support republicans who in turn will keep
up supporting the outsourcing of American jobs which is killing the middle class
all across the country?

Obama names Republican governor as envoy to China

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3880443

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9265368

8. WHY WOULD STEELE WANT FACE TIME WITH FOREIGN DIPLOMATS?

WHY WOULD STEELE WANT FACE TIME WITH FOREIGN DIPLOMATS?.... Even when he's screwing up, RNC Chairman Michael Steele's motivations are
usually pretty clear. In a story like this one, though, I have no idea what he's thinking.

The Republican National Committee is trying to set up meetings between Chairman Michael Steele and foreign ambassadors to the United States,
according to an email obtained by POLITICO -- an effort that has puzzled diplomats as well as fellow Republicans.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4565202&mesg_id=4565202

MoveOn Asks DoJ To Launch Criminal Investigation Of Chamber's Funding

The Democratic Party's infrastructure responded with noticeable alarm on Tuesday to a report that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce may be funding its political efforts with foreign donations.