(Pakistani) ISI pressing Taliban to fight US troops in Afghanistan: Report

[cosmicone]

Source: Times of India / PTI

NEW YORK: Pakistan's powerful ISI is pressing Taliban commanders in Afghanistan to fight the US and allied troops and "kill everyone" so that no peace deal is cut to end the war without Islamabad's involvement, a media report says.

"The ISI wants to arrest commanders who are not obeying (ISI) orders," a Taliban commander in Kunar province was quoted as saying by 'The Wall Street Journal'.

"The ISI wants us to kill everyone — policemen, soldiers, engineers, teachers, civilians — just to intimidate people," he said.

Citing US officials and Afghan militants, the report said the members of Pakistan's spy agency are pressing Taliban field commanders to fight the US and its allies in Afghanistan.

Read more: ISI pressing Taliban to fight US troops in Afghanistan: Report - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/ISI-pressing-Taliban-to-fight-US-troops-in-Afghanistan-Report/articleshow/6706812.cms#ixzz11iNoGAWo

Read more: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/ISI-pressing-Taliban-to-fight-US-troops-in-Afghanistan-Report/articleshow/6706812.cms

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We are paying Pakistan money to prop up our enemy. Sad.

[indepat]

1. With friends like the ISI, who needs enemies?

:shrug:

[maxsolomon]

2. Wheels within wheels

Times of India, ISI, Pakistan, Taliban - don't trust any of this information farther than I throw it.

[cosmicone]

4. The report is originally from the WSJ.

Times of India is the most widely read English newspaper in the world and not owned by Rupert Murdoch.

[karynnj]

5. But the WSJ IS owned by Murdoch - and you just said this report originated there

[cosmicone]

16. WSJ is not a typical Murdoch rag .. it is far more reputable.

I find it amusing to what lengths Pakistan sympathizers would go to discredit any news about Pakistan funding terrorists even after Pervez Musharraf admitted it in an interview that Pakistan actively funds, trains and arms terrorists as official state policy.

[karynnj]

20. The WSJ is not typical , but it is in many ways worse

It always leaned right, but now it is leaning even further right. It also has written some patently dishonest things. Murdock has owned it only a short time. The reason I see it as worse is because it's lying is not as obvious.

I am not a Pakistani sympathizer. Musharraf is not in power and I would bet that you detested and distrusted him when he was in power.

[cosmicone]

21. The premise was that this story was from Times of India and therefore likely false.

The story in WSJ gives great details and mentions many sources. It is also written by a reputable reporter.

What I find objectionable is that any time there is negative publicity for Pakistan, the source and/or the source's motives are put on trial rather than well-known, well-publicized and common-knowledge shenanigans of Pakistani military and ISI.

[karynnj]

27. Could that be because you are often the person who posted it?

IMO, you may be the reason. Your comments on every thread on Pakistan are uniformly over the top. It could well be people reacting to you. You can blast me for saying that, but you might want to consider that you might be more persuasive if you were not doing that. Before you ask - no I will not link to examples.

[cosmicone]

28. Isn't it ignoring the message and blaming the messenger?

What one may consider "over the top" may be the reality for someone who has actually experienced the phenomenon of Pakistan cultivating terrorist groups, using them as official state policy against India killing thousands of innocent people and then crying victim to get even more aid and military hardware. I am perhaps the most outspoken but I am willing to back up everything I post with links.

[closeupready]

24. So now, folks, we see that we are "Pakistan sympathizers".

You all know where he's going with that. :mad:

[jaybeat]

3. We created the monster; now it is coming after us

The ISI, the Taliban, Osama bin Laden, all created, funded by the US and the West.

Now we want to control them, they say, "Not so fast."

http://www.historycommons.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

Nice way to create endless war in a post Cold War world.

Mission Fucking Accomplished

[happyslug]

6. Winter is setting in, why would the Taliban do anything?

This is the foothills of the Himalayas mountains. Winter is setting in and with it cold wet weather making it almost impossible to move except by foot OR on paved roads (and there are NOT that many paved roads in Afghanistan). The tradition is that part of the world is to hold up till spring. This Is NOT the Russian Steeps where it freezes solid during the winter (and thus the Russians can move about in Winter do to the frozen ground, in fact in Russia proper it is easier to move during the winter then summer for all of the swamps and rivers are frozen and thus passable in winter, in fact the only time Russia was conquered the Mongols did it in a winter Campaign, during the "Time of Troubles" A Polish army took Moscow during a Winter Campaign stayed the winter and left Moscow in the Summer after the Winter Wheat crop could be harvested).

Afghanistan is to far south to participate in the Russian Winter freeze, so you have more the Freeze-thaw cycle that is common in the American North east and Mid west more then the solid be freezing weather that is common in Canada and Russia. Thus it is easier to move during the winter in Russia then in Afghanistan.

Furthermore Afghanistan is a WINTER WHEAT area, it is time to plant the crop NOT go to war. When winter wheat is planted it grows till the snow falls, then it goes dormant till spring, when it comes back to life and is harvested in late Spring early Summer.

Notes that Afghanistan is a winter wheat area:
http://afghanistan.usaid.gov/en/Article.1258.aspx
http://www.fas.usda.gov/pecad2/highlights/2002/03/afghan1/index.htm

Thus the Taliban has very good reasons to wait till spring, first get the crop planted, then winter sets in. Thus the Taliban will not do anything till Spring.

Given that situation why would you do ANYTHING this time of year? The US has Air Superiority and thus can move its troops by helicopters and avoid the muck the grounds becomes this time of year by flying over it. The Taliban has to walk through that muck (When the Taliban is NOT planting next year's crop). It is NOT the time of the year for the Taliban to go on any offensive. Fall and Winter has NEVER been the time to go on the Offensive in Afghanistan.

Thus the real question is who released this and why? Could it be the US wants to justify some action during the winter so the US is planting stories to so it is PREVENTING something NOT doing something for its own good. That is my guess, the Taliban is winning the war by winning the support of the Afghan natives (Which is what this type of war is fought on and over, any particular objective is unimportant compare to getting the people on your side and keeping them on your side). As long as that is the case, and winter is setting in, why disturb the planting? Makes no sense for the Taliban to disturb the planting.

Certain parts of the world you do NOT attack during certain seasons. The rule is do NOT attack Russia except in Winter (If you can't attack in winter don't attack at all). During the Vietnam war, the US and North Vietnam fought a proxy war in Laos. During the Wet Season the US would help the Laos attack North Vietnamese positions and take them, then during the Dry Season, when the Vietnamese could move on the ground, the North Vietnamese would retake what the US and its Laotian allies had taken the previous wet season.

During the American Revolution the French Fleet was available to help Washington only during the Hurricane Season in the Caribbean. The French did NOT want their fleet destroyed in a hurricane, so during June through October the French Fleet sailed out of the Caribbean. During the French and Indian war the French Fleet went to Quebec. During the American Revolution Rhode Island (Charleston, Philadelphia and New York were under British Occupation, to get to Boston you had to sail around the Cape so when the British abandoned Rhode Island the US left the French right in and French wanted a port for its fleet during the Hurricane season.

Just observation that weather often determines military actions and with the Taliban planting winter wheat AND winter are the bid factors in any military action over the next six months.

[Poll_Blind]

7. Report: Pakistan Spy Agency Urging Taliban to Fight U.S.

Source: FauxNews

Members of Pakistan's spy agency are pressing Taliban field commanders to fight the U.S. and its allies in Afghanistan, U.S. officials and Afghan militants have told The Wall Street Journal, a development that undercuts a key element of the Pentagon's strategy for ending the war.

The explosive accusation is the strongest yet in a series of U.S. criticisms of Pakistan, and shows a deteriorating relationship with an essential ally in the Afghan campaign. The U.S. has provided billions of dollars in military and development aid to Pakistan for its support.

The U.S. and Afghanistan have sought to persuade midlevel Taliban commanders to lay down their weapons in exchange for jobs or cash. The most recent Afghan effort at starting a peace process took place this week in Kabul.

But few Taliban have given up the fight, officials say. Some Taliban commanders and U.S. officials say militant leaders are being pressured by officers from Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency not to surrender.

"The ISI wants to arrest commanders who are not obeying orders," said a Taliban commander in Kunar province.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/10/06/report-pakistan-pushing-taliban-fight/

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! ? (?)

PB

[Mike Marble]

8. What in the world have we gotten ourselves into?

And how do we get out?

[Rhiannon12866]

9. +1.

Exactly. :(

[The Magistrate]

10. We Are So Out Of Our League, Sir, It Is Not Even Funny...

Now it is not good for the Christian's health to hustle the Aryan brown,
For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear: "A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East."

[Poll_Blind]

15. Indeed. To those who have spent all night gambling, this may seem like just another hand.

But a new deck is being unwrapped and should we be foolhardy enough to push more chips in on this particular game I doubt we'll have sense left to notice the pips and spokes are different on the back of every card.

PB

[Citizen Worker]

11. This is why Afghanistan has earned the badge, "graveyard of empires."

[rustyd55]

12. no way out

We are in trouble it is now An Afghan and Pakistan war which makes it impossible to get out cause Pakistan has nukes.This war has no end in sight and will only get worst.Other countries are starting to see this and are pulling out already.Netherlands is out and Canada is also leaving.The rest will leave and leave us with the dirty work.

[formercia]

13. Pashtun Homeland

This situation has an analog with the Kurds in Iraq. When some bureaucrat carved up these countries tribal areas were fragmented, sowing the seeds for conflict in the future. Until the Pashtun tribal areas are united, the fighting will go on

[Vehl]

14. America is stupid to trust the ISI

But few Taliban have given up the fight, officials say. Some Taliban commanders and U.S. officials say militant leaders are being pressured by officers from Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency not to surrender.

"The ISI wants to arrest commanders who are not obeying orders," said a Taliban commander in Kunar province.

To anyone who knows anything about that region, The above should not come as a surprise!.
Most people have a very simplistic view of what is going on in that area(including the past US government which based its entire policy on such simplistic assumptions and the current Obama admin which is stuck with the same policy)

There are some facts these people should keep in mind

1 The ISI was the middleman during the soviet-Afghan war.

2 They were the ones who basically created the Taliban out of the resulting confusion after the departure of the soviets, Furthermore they bankrolled the Taliban with funds gained from the Middle Eastern countries(Saudi arabia for instance).It was the ISI assistance of weapons, info, funds as well as Pakistani troops that enabled the Taliban to capture Most of Afghanistan after the soviet withdrawal.

3 The Taliban was firmly under the control of the ISI and its generals before and during the American Invasion of Afghanistan. There were Pakistani flights ferrying ISI/Pakistani military personnel out of Kabul even as the Allied forces were near the town border.These guys were directing the Taliban defense against the Allied forces till the last moment.

4 The former head of ISI, Hamid Gul openly stated that he warned Osama about an Impending US strike, which resulted in the survival of Osama. The ISI is in the enviable position of providing information to the Coalition forces as well as being informed of any action the Coalition forces would be taking.It is no secret that the ISI is heavily partial to the Taliban.

5 The Goal of the ISI(and the power players in the Pakistani military) is to
# Siphon off as much money as possible from the Coalition forces for the Pakistani "support" in this war
# Provide just enough information about Taliban/Al-Quaida suspects so the US cant really complain
# Pass on Coalition plans to the Taliban and Al-Quaida big brass
# Use this "special relationship" to gain more arms/weapons from the Coalition forces for the Pakistani Military
# And while they are at it, allow the Chinese to look at the modern/classified/restricted information and equipment that comes
their way (China was given an American F16block 50 by Pakistan in violation of agreements with the US) in return for military
and financial aid.
# Use the threat ofnuclear weapons falling into the "wrong" hands as a sure-fire way to blackmail the world into providing
financial/military support.
# To Ensure that America would break itself financially and politically in the mountains and deserts of Afganistan, thus helping
the Al-Qauida and China indirectly.


The true losers are the Coalition forces, who knowingly walk into this trap.


For the ISI and the Pakistani Military, the war in Afghanistan must continue and they will do everything they can to ensure it

[cosmicone]

17. As I always stated -- the key to a victory in Afghanistan

is a victory over Pakistan. Balkanizing Pakistan, dividing and downsizing its military and burying the ISI (the little countries won't need it) will lead to a victory in Afghanistan.

India started Pakistan's balkanization process with independence for Bangladesh. Next in line should be freedom for the Baluchis and annexation of the tribal areas with Afghanistan. Then Sindhudesh. This leaves the most radical elements land-locked and devoid of resources to fight.

If this plan is put forth, almost all the surrounding countries except China would support it. A coalition of Russia, NATO, India, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan could be formed easily. Even Iran may participate and would certainly not oppose.

Pakistan is economically weak and reeling from the recent floods -- time to strike is now and give freedom to the Pushtuns, Baluchis and Sindhis that they have been yearning for.

http://baluchsarmachar.wordpress.com/2010/05/31/free-balochistan-is-the-hope-for-peace/

http://www.freesindh.org/Free_Sindh/Welcome.html

[Mike Marble]

18. You really are a one-trick pony, aren't you?

Have you ever posted anything not demanding the balkanization of Pakistan?

[cosmicone]

19. Is there a better idea? n/t

[closeupready]

23. You could always stop posting here.

n/t

[cosmicone]

26. Yep, muzzle the reality and it will all go away n/t

[closeupready]

25. self-delete

self-delete

[closeupready]

22. Unrecced for continuing these threads that serve no purpose but to disrupt this board.

with his inflammatory and ugly rhetoric.