Revelations from Kent State audio tape prompt congressional inquiry

[maddezmom]

Source: The Plain Dealer

CLEVELAND, Ohio — U.S. Rep. Dennis Kucinich is launching a congressional inquiry into an altercation and apparent pistol fire that occurred about 70 seconds before Ohio National Guardsmen shot students and antiwar protesters on May 4, 1970.


The violent clash and four shots from a .38-caliber revolver were captured by a student's tape recorder, placed in a dormitory window. The sounds of the altercation recently were discovered by Stuart Allen, a forensic audio expert who analyzed the 40-year-old tape at The Plain Dealer's request. The newspaper reported Allen's findings Friday.

Kucinich, who chairs a House sub-committee with oversight of the FBI and Justice Department, said the paper's account prompted his inquiry.

"Kent State had such a grave effect on this nation, we owe it to the American people to have a thorough inquiry," he said in an interview. "This story about new evidence makes it mandatory that we gather information and ask questions.


Read more: http://www.cleveland.com/science/index.ssf/2010/10/revelations_from_kent_state_au.html

[No Elephants]

1. Fallen heroes.

[kickysnana]

2. How about the crimes that affect our lives now? Look over there. n/t

[groundloop]

3. While we all worry about jobs, healthcare, the war, r/w agenda, etc., this is worth knowing

I don't see this inquiry as taking away anything from our current issues. It's history, and it's worth it to learn what happened.

[RufusTFirefly]

11. What has changed since then? Not much.

If anything, things have gotten worse. The reason it's important to get to the bottom of such things is because the repercussions are still being felt today.

How do we know that the FBI didn't function as agents provocateur since Kent State? In fact, there's abundant evidence that they did. How do we know that they haven't stopped this practice? We don't.

That's why these investigations are relevant in the here and now.

"The past is never dead. It’s not even past." -- William Faulkner

[TexasObserver]

4. I was on an island in the Vietnam theater when the Kent State massacre happened.

One of the guys in my unit had gone to school there. He was in shock over the news, and so were a lot of the troops. We did not respect the National Guard, to begin with. During the Vietnam era, the National Guard was the hiding place of the likes of George W. Bush and other fortunate sons. We considered them cowards who wanted it both ways. They wanted to pretend they were in the military, while hanging out in the US once a month and playing cards with other privileged boys, but they wanted to avoid any chance of serving in southeast Asia. Only a small number of troops in the theater were from Guard units.

To know that these guys shot students while sitting back home was infuriating.

That was about the time troops really began to doubt the mission. The realization that Asians throughout the region really didn't want the US running Vietnam, Laos, and Thailand was part of that. The killings at Kent State were another.

The photo of that girl with her arms extended over a fallen student, as if to say "WHY?!" was everywhere. I first saw it in a news magazine a few weeks later. It made me wonder "what the hell are we doing here?"

[zanana1]

19. I hope you've told your kids and grandkids about it. nt

[TexasObserver]

22. Kids, yes. Grandkids - it will be many years until they will need to know it.

[Hissyspit]

5. Kucinich Probes Whether FBI Informant Triggered Kent State Massacre

Source: Raw Story / Office of Dennis Kucinich

Kucinich probes whether FBI informant triggered Kent State massacre

By Stephen C. Webster
Saturday, October 9th, 2010 -- 11:13 am

Following the revelation that an FBI informant may have opened fire just before the 1970 massacre of four anti-war students by members of the US National Guard, Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) has opened a probe into the events, requesting key documents from the FBI in a letter delivered Saturday morning.

A Friday report by The Cleveland Plain Dealer cites audio forensics experts in claiming that shots matching the acoustic signature of a .38 caliber pistol rang out some 70 seconds before Ohio Guardsmen opened fire on the crowd of students protesting the Vietnam war.

- snip -

Reacting to the paper's revelations, Kucinich requested that the FBI provide...

1) All documents pertaining to a relationship between the Bureau, including any employment records and any payment for photographic or other services, and Mr. Terry Norman;

2) All documents pertaining to a ballistics test or forensic examination conducted by the Bureau of a Smith and Wesson pistol recovered from Terry Norman on or about the day of the Kent State shootings; and

3) All documents pertaining to assistance of any kind, including employment assistance provided by the Bureau to or on behalf of Mr. Terry Norman.”

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/newspaper-report-kucinich-opens-probe-kent-state-shootings

[RufusTFirefly]

6. agents provocateur

The FBI was on the wrong side of a lot of key struggles from the 1960s and 70s, including civil rights and anti-war efforts.

[herbm]

7. The significance here is that Nixon and J. Edgar covered these shots up after claiming there were no

fired prior to the NG volley.

[Grins]

21. So did the Ohio Governor (PBS's "Most Dangerous Man in America")

The Ohio Gov. was up to his ass in covering this up, too. The final report from the state's investigation has, even to this day, never been released.

But, more to the point, is to let you know to look and see if your PBS station is going to re-run "The Most Dangerous Man in America", their story on Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers. I saw it last Tuesday and it brought back a lot of memories and revealed new horrors.

Ellsberg's Pentagon Papers revealed the origins of the Vietnam War going back five presidents to Truman and the government's reasoning for everything being bullshit.

My personal highlights:
McNamara knowing the war was lost in 1967. LBJ refused to listen to that.
The secrecy behind the Pentagon Papers? So that LBJ would not know about it and stop it.

Tape of Nixon wanting to bust N. Vietnam's dikes. N. Vietnamese casualties - 200,000!
Kissinger balking.
Nixon telling Kissinger, "Think big, Henry!"

The comment by one of Ellsberg's attorney's on who should be on the jury. Answer: no one in their late 30's to early 60's - at some point they did something they are ashamed of and never spoke up like Ellsberg.

There's a quote about Vietnam being 20% for the South Vietnamese, 10% keeping the Chinese away - and 70% about "saving face" for the U.S. Following that was the thought, could you imagine the response from every woman in the country hearing that their sons/brothers/husbands/uncles were dying for "face".

Last, if it wasn't the the Pentagon Papers - there never would have been a Watergate and the fall of a president.

Do I think this investigation is long overdue? You bet. And I was an officer in the Army back then.

[herbm]

27. The very first thing "Windy" Rhodes and Gen DelCorso did was claim there were prior shots.

I think they knew at least close to the event what happened and tried to blame it on us kids. I think that when Nixon handed it over to the FBI, it was realized that the lie would fold like a cheap suit and the President went for option #3 - coverup and a passive blame put on the NG. I was there and there was VERY little stuff tossed at the NG. When someone rang the victory bell in the commons and 15,000 or so stundents surrounded the NG on a little grassy knoll the NG had a Gen Custer moment and freaked. Too bad Rhodes ordered the campus closed without actualy letting the University in on it and that Pres Golding wasn't notified (he was giving a commencement speech in PA somewhere).

Two of the killed weren't even part of the days festivities of NG trying to clear a campus while finals were going on and students were trying to get home for summer.

Don't get me started.

[Dennis Donovan]

8. Recommended!!!

:kick:

[Rhiannon12866]

9. K&R! Leave it to Dennis!

:patriot:

[Imagevision]

23. If it happened today it would be swept under the rug as it was back then...

no-one was to blame and they end up blaming the students.

[Archae]

10. Why is it no one even MENTIONS the fact it was a (bleep) riot??!!??

A riot that had burned one building on campus already?

Am I excusing the Guard? Hell no.
They were trigger happy shooting at "commies."
Innocents were killed and wounded by those bastards.

I saw an interview with a former Gurdsman, he was unapologetic, saying, "I shot at those communist bums, so what?"

So why are the rioters being excused also?

[defendandprotect]

13. WAIT ... there's evidence that the building was burned by FBI -- not students ....

You'll find that somewhere on the internet --

more false flag crap -- as usual!

Easy to see how right wing propaganda and hidden history confuses Americans!!

[defendandprotect]

12. Isn't there also a tape of Nixon pushing this idea with the Governor ... "getting tough" ...???

and what was said in complete privacy?

Anyone who doesn't understand the totally corrupt and criminal and murderous nature

of Nixon and Watergate should simply look at the "Huston Plan" which mimicked

"Operation Northwoods" and which was about using violence and lies to stop the 1972 election,

if necesary!!

[Downwinder]

14. What items of the "Huston Plan" are left to be implemented?

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Francesca9]

16. The National Guard never carried the .38

Back then it was a common caliber for cops and civilians. It was not fired by the NG.

This was what I would have expected to happen when untrained troops with live ammo are sent out to control a riot.

[Downwinder]

18. You beat me on edit.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huston_Plan

"Among other things the plan called for domestic burglary, illegal electronic surveillance and opening the mail of domestic "radicals". At one time it also called for the creation of camps in Western states where anti-war protesters would be detained."

Rather than reading all 42 pages, I was wondering what was left to implement.

[oswaldactedalone]

24. Totally correct

The Huston Plan is covered well by John Dean in his terrific memoir of Watergate, "Blind Ambition." That book right there made me aware of the evil nature of Rethuglicans, and we continue to see their pathos played out daily. The damn broke when the Fairness Doctrine was abandoned which led to the flood on our airwaves of Limbaugh and right-wing, essentially Nazi, propoganda. The result is the brainwashing of ignorants such as the tea party minions, and really anyone who calls him or herself a Republican.

[defendandprotect]

25. Agree completely with your post --

the only way the right wing can rise is through violence -- political violence --

and stolen elections. They also have to control eveything because truth is a huge

threat to them -- it's like a pebble shattering a mirror.

Keep thowing those pebbles!!

Keep in mind that everything else they have is BOUGHT --

The GOP gave start-up funding to the Christian Coaliation --

Richard Scaife funded Dobson's organization -- and other wealthy right wingers funded Bauer's.

The T-Party was another GOP creation -- Dick Armey -- well financed -- and run out of

a PR firm.

Was just reciting in another post that after Wm. Buckley died .... it came to light thru

various memos that CIA -- which takes money from ANY right wing sources, including the KKK

and Nazis -- had been funding the campaigns of right wingers in Congress -- two I'm aware

of were Sen. Strom Thurmond and Rep. Gerry Ford!

CIA also gave funding to Pat Buchanan over his career!


As Cheney was fond of telling us -- and as John Mitchell before him warned us --

"Right wing creates the reality" -- and the rest of us are forced to deal with it!

John Mitchell -- "US is going to go so far to the right that it will make your head spin!"


:evilgrin:

[old mark]

17. This is way overdue. I have no doubt the FBI hid this for decades

so they wouldn't look bad.


mark

[POAS]

20. He's still fighting for the truth

Alan Canfora on May 4, 1970



http://alancanfora.com/

[defendandprotect]

26. Forgot to add a 'THANK YOU' to Sen. Dennis Kucinich ... !!!