Obama continues attack on Chamber of Commerce

[TomCADem]

Source: Washington Post

The White House intensified its attacks Sunday on the powerful U.S. Chamber of Commerce for its alleged ties to foreign donors, part of an escalating Democratic effort to link Republican allies with corporate and overseas interests ahead of the November midterm elections.

The chamber adamantly denies that foreign funds are used in its U.S. election efforts, accusing Democrats of orchestrating a speculative smear campaign during a desperate political year.

President Obama, speaking at a rally in Philadelphia, said "the American people deserve to know who is trying to sway their elections" and raised the possibility that foreigners could be funding his opponents.

"You don't know," Obama said at the rally for Senate candidate Joe Sestak and other Democrats. "It could be the oil industry. It could even be foreign-owned corporations. You don't know because they don't have to disclose."

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/10/AR2010101004009.html?hpid=topnews

---

Kudos to Obama for calling out the Chamber of its efforts to initiate Corporate Coup 2010 through record setting amounts being spent on elections with much of it untraceable and unregulated due to the Roberts' court decision in Citizens United.

Heck, Karl Rove is even allowing corporations to make tax deductible politicle donations through his 501(3)(c) organizations.

Finally, the Chamber does not even include the millions being funneled into astroturf groups like Freedom Works, which has run both right wing and left wing astroturf campaigns.

[Oceansaway]

1. K&R...n/t

[TheEuclideanOne]

80. FactCheck.org disputes this claim WTF?!?!??!?!?

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/10/foreign-money-really/

So, we finally decided to go on the offensive on a key issue. Am I to worry that it is on something that is unsubstantiated? This would be very disappointing!!! I won't rant yet.... but getting ready to ... big time...if this is unusubstantiated.

[tularetom]

2. I'm baffled by that last sentence

When the hell did Freedom Works, and organization with a big picture of Glen Beck and a statement of opposition to Social Security and the "death tax" on its home page, ever run a left wing astroturf campaign?

[TomCADem]

5. WSJ - "Mortgage Bailout Infuriates Tenants (And Steve Forbes)" - Angry Renters Against Homeowners

Before the Tea Party and before President Obama was even elected, here is Freedomworks running an astroturf campaign from the left on behalf of angry renters against mortgage relief to homeowners. How populist of Freedom Works!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121090164137297527.html

'Angry Renter' Web Site Has Grass-Roots Look, But This Turf Is Fake

WASHINGTON -- AngryRenter.com looks a bit like a digital ransom note, with irregular fonts, exclamation points and big red arrows -- all emphasizing prudent renters' outrage over a proposed government bailout for irresponsible homeowners.

"It seems like America's renters may NEVER be able to afford a home," AngryRenter.com laments. The Web site urges like-minded tenants to let Congress feel their fury by signing an online petition. "We are millions of renters standing up for our rights!"

Angry they may be, but the people behind AngryRenter.com are certainly not renters. Though it purports to be a spontaneous uprising, AngryRenter.com is actually a product of an inside-the-Beltway conservative advocacy organization led by Dick Armey, the former House majority leader, and publishing magnate Steve Forbes, a fellow Republican. It's a fake grass-roots effort -- what politicos call an AstroTurf campaign -- that provides a window into the sleight-of-hand ways of Washington.

Of course, most of the attention is paid to Freedomworks efforts to manipulate Tea Partiers, but before they Tea Party, Freedom Works was engaging in other astroturf campaigns.

[tularetom]

7. Wow those guys are good, huh?

Fake left wing campaigns run for the benefit of wealthy Americans, and fake right wing campaigns run for the benefit of wealthy Americans.

It says a lot about the relative intelligence of those on the left vs the right, that they decided it was easier to manipulate the teabaggers than the progressives.

[TomCADem]

13. Exactly, Why Should We Think That Corporations Will Only Manipulate The Right?

Corporations have hundreds of millions of dollars at their disposal. The story I link is from May 2008 before the election of President Obama, and before Rick Santelli's orchestrated Tea Party rant in February 2009.

I am not so naive to think that corporations will only try to manipulate the right through corporate funded astroturf to attack Democrats. The Angry Renters campaign is an example of a populist sounding campaign actually being funded by millionaires and corporate interests.

[ooglymoogly]

22. And why would anyone suppose the string pullers only support

Pugs when there are plenty of bluedogs and Dino's who always vote pug on critical issues and provide cover for them; casting them as fair and balance and with the coveted bi partisan label. Its a win win. Its the honest Progressives and honest Democrats voting for the good of the country who suffer.

[wordpix]

48. billionaire Koch brothers are known for these tactics. Article here:

Covert Operations
The billionaire brothers who are waging a war against Obama

by Jane Mayer

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer#ixzz123viaqaZ

snip:

Five hundred people attended the summit, which served, in part, as a training session for Tea Party activists in Texas. An advertisement cast the event as a populist uprising against vested corporate power. “Today, the voices of average Americans are being drowned out by lobbyists and special interests,” it said. “But you can do something about it.” The pitch made no mention of its corporate funders. The White House has expressed frustration that such sponsors have largely eluded public notice. David Axelrod, Obama’s senior adviser, said, “What they don’t say is that, in part, this is a grassroots citizens’ movement brought to you by a bunch of oil billionaires.”

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer#ixzz123vS0I4u

[TomCADem]

54. Because The Bluedogs Are Not The Typical Democratic Base...

The goal of groups like Freedom Works is to destroy Democratic support, and why not due that through a campaign pushing tenant rights? Notice that Barney Frank is incensed over the attack because it purports to be on behalf of tenants.

[quakerboy]

82. Vote for Crist

What... it seemed apropos.

[molly77]

72. Tricky little devils aren't they?

I used to rent out a house. The tax breaks were wonderful..off setting the hard work and frustration of dealing with some very weird renters. The tax breaks were stopped with a capital gains law that was popular with democrats.I knew rent would go up sky high...because renting is not easy..and some people will take as much as the market allows anyway.

Food and shelter are the two biggies. Our US safety net has been broken by both parties. No empathy for those who can't afford to buy a house.As for food, the family farm met it's demise under President Jimmy Carter. His administration began with encouraging farmers to buy new equipment because of the low interest rates.Then there was a gas shortage . City people waited in lines for gas. Farmers were denied gas to harvest their crops.Interest rates were through the roof.Then the foreclosures and penny auctions began. The bushes friends were big oil. Jimmy Carter's friends were big ag...which snapped up the land and equipment for pennies on the dollar.That is when the south went republican.

I am still a democrat but feel my party left me in the dust. Am so proud of Obama's veto of the bankster bill which would have enabled the banks to foreclose without benefit of the law. I don't just like Obama , I love him. Hope he fires every clintonite in his administration and just starts fresh.

[Enthusiast]

34. Plus one!

Their attempt to use the left wing didn't get off the ground. Not to say we are not being manipulated to some degree, on one issue or another. It is impossible to escape their tentacles.

[TomCADem]

52. "Rand Paul Staffer Reportedly Goes Undercover As A Liberal To Shake-Up Democratic Rival's Campaign"

Why is it that so many folks have so much faith that corporate funded candidate and groups would not try to undermine Democrats from the fake left. Here is a recent example:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/08/rand-paul-staffer-reporte_n_708429.html

A staffer working for Kentucky U.S. Senate candidate Rand Paul's campaign was called out on Tuesday for reportedly pretending to be a progressive blogger in an allegedly stealth attempt to undermine the campaign of the Republican hopeful's Democratic challenger, Jack Conway.

According to the Daily Kos, a progressive blog and online community, Thomas Kubica, a paid intern for Team Paul, has on multiple occasions taken to the site to express his views on the contentious Senate fight under false pretenses.

Jed Lewison writes:

Paul campaign's front desk confirmed Kubica's status as a paid intern on Tuesday morning.
Kubica registered at Daily Kos under the pseudonym "Huey Long" and has repeatedly posed as a progressive Democrat who opposes Paul but does not believe Conway is worthy of support.

[freebrew]

63. Firing squad for:

SPIES and INSURGENTS?

[Enthusiast]

114. I have encountered

this kind of internet personality all over the web. They claim to be liberal, their user name would lead one to believe they are real left wing believers, yet their discussions are used to gently coerce others toward a more right wing perspective. They are all around us. Watch out for a user name out of proportion to the views they express.

[valerief]

39. No fake left-wing campaigns by the wealthy. All right-wing, totally right-wing. nt

[drm604]

10. In what way was angryrenter a left-wing campaign?

Angryrenter.com is nothing but a website claiming to represent non-existent angry renters. It's in no way comparable to the Tea Party.

In any case, if you go to http://angryrenter.com you'll see that it rails against Obama.

[TomCADem]

12. Angry Renters predates election of Obama and it purports to represents renters against ...

...homeowners: "emphasizing prudent renters' outrage over a proposed government bailout for irresponsible homeowners." Likewise, back in 2008, "Mr. Armey says he's looking out for "the poor devil" who can't afford to buy a house." That is right. Angry Renters was looking out renters who could not afford to buy a house.

Yes, if you click on it now, it has been updated to rail against President Obama, but Freedom Works and angry renters were created before President Obama was even elected.

The story I linked is from May 2008.

[drm604]

15. I was aware of angryrenters.com years ago

and even posted some threads about it on DU along with the fact that it was astroturf. I never considered it as being left-wing, even before it mentioned Obama.

There's no reason to assume that renters, angry or otherwise, are left-wing. There are plenty of poor and working class right-wingers. It never crossed my mind that the supposed "angry renters" that it claimed to represent were left-wing (or even right-wing for that matter). The whole idea that there was some organized group of renters up in arms over the issue struck me as so absurd that I never even considered the pretend political orientation of these pretend people.

In any case, it's not a big deal. Maybe you're right. Maybe they intended it to appear to be a left-wing group. I don't see it, but I could be mistaken.

[Alcibiades]

18. It was transparent at the time

I doubt many were fooled by who was behind it.

[girl gone mad]

55. They were contacting a lot of housing bubble blogs early on.

Most quickly figured out that Dick Armey was running the show, and wanted nothing to do with it.

[hootinholler]

57. And that is 'from the left' how?

Seriously. That doesn't sound like a very left group to me.

:shrug:

-Hoot

[Qutzupalotl]

3. I think Obama knows some of their funding is foreign,

or he wouldn't stick his neck out like this. It's an effective strategy. Presidents seldom make wild accusations. As the saying goes, where there's smoke, there's fire.

[babylonsister]

4. He predicted this would happen after the SC decision, and brought

it up in the SOTU. You might remember Alito shaking his head in the negative? This is what he was reacting to.

[LiberalFighter]

73. Obama should bring it up again at his next SOTU.

And especially put in a dig when we maintain control of both chambers of Congress.

[SomeGuynTexas]

41. "Wild accusations?" from the President?

Isn't one of the perks of being President is that you *never* have to make "wild accusations?"

One would think that sufficient resources exist to ensure you never have to "stick your neck out."

[Qutzupalotl]

60. I think you misunderstood me.

I'm saying that this is not a wild accusation, that he's not really sticking his neck out (although it might appear that way), and that he has more resources than we do. In short, he knows something's up here. Part of it is obviously the Citizens United decision fallout, but I think there's also specific evidence he's seen of foreign money being funneled through the Chamber.

On edit: I see I left out the words "appear to" in my earlier post. Sorry.

[quakerboy]

83. Or he knows that

they will NEVER disclose their sources short of laws to make it happen. And probably not even then. Which is just as good.

[TheEuclideanOne]

88. According to FactCheck, it is not substantiated

If it is not substantiated, and this is by FactCheck.org, then yes he is sticking his neck out waiting for it to be chopped. I am pretty pissed off about this, actually. Do we not have enough substantiaed bullshit to use that we have to go down this route? It feels like a repeat of what happened recently with Grayson. Is anybody at the wheel during this election?

[Qutzupalotl]

91. My guess is Obama knows something about this that we don't. n/t

[TheEuclideanOne]

93. Wow. Now THAT is scary!

The president is taking this very public position and all guns are blazing on a guess that he knows something that we don't. Why don't we jus have all of he democratic candidates just resign right now and save everybody some time.

I was actually hoping to hear somebody say something like "No, that article is all wrong, here are 20 examples of why Obama has taken this position.". We are fucked!

[Qutzupalotl]

94. The president isn't guessing, I am.

:shrug:

And by all accounts, the ad has struck a nerve, so what are you worried about?

[TheEuclideanOne]

96. Great, it struck a nerver. So did Grayson's last fake ad.

It ended up as a huge embarrassment, monumental credibility loss and made the person who was in the wrong come out smelling like a rose. It also damages future ads that Grayson creates.

So now we want the President and the DNC to come public with very harsh claims, which I am pretty confident are 100% true, but unprovable? There is a pretty long discussion here also on something that is unproven. Not good.

[Qutzupalotl]

97. Actually we know a portion of their money is foreign-sourced

and they need to show how they account for that. If we can force them to open up their books, that's a good thing. After all, nothing is stopping them. If they insist on hiding, we'll assume they have something to hide.

[TheEuclideanOne]

99. How do we know this

I am not trying to challenge you, I would just like to know that there is something concreate out there. I got taken back by seeing a post here on how Obama is really going after the Chamber and foreign sources and then seeing the Factcheck article only few hours later. I would like to feel a little bit less like we are going to get politically bitch slapped by a group that would honestly be okay with it even if it were true.

[Qutzupalotl]

104. It's in the factcheck.org article you just read:

The amount of foreign money the chamber takes in is actually somewhat more than $100,000 — though the chamber won’t say how much more. The chamber’s vice president of communications, Tita Freeman, told us that the chamber gets about $100,000 per year through American Chambers of Commerce overseas. That’s the $100,000 that the chief lobbyist was referring to in the Times story, another chamber official confirmed with us. In addition, Freeman said the chamber also receives membership dues directly from foreign corporations, though she would not say how much.
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/10/foreign-money-really/

So the Chamber needs to account for how they handle this foreign money. Senator Franken is calling for an FEC investigation.

[TheEuclideanOne]

113. Okay, you talked me off the edge.

Thanks for the clarification. After looking into it a more, reading your responses and others, I think I understand it a bit better and will look further into it.

I also did notice your point in reading the FactCheck article. It basically showed that the Dems could not prove that foreign investments were a factor, but it seemed to gloss over the fact that you could not prove that they were not either. Is the number really only $100,000 in total? I would suspect that it is a lot more, since $100K is really a drop in the bucket when it comes to elections. But, hey, that is a whole other issue.

[backtomn]

103. Then....maybe....

he ought to be telling us what it is.

[Qutzupalotl]

106. Why, when he can get more traction out of the question

:rofl:

[Hansel]

98. Since the CoC has not disclosed where their money is coming from

FactCheck.org is off base on this one. They do not have a clue and can pretend that all of the glossed over superficial information they have from the CoC and from superficial sources is the end of the story. The most important FACT is that the CoC is stonewalling any attempts to get them to disclose where the money is coming from. Obama is backing them up against the wall because I'm betting the American people aren't going to like what they find out.

Obama has them front and center refusing to reveal what they are hiding? What makes you think FactCheck.org 1) knows more about it than Obama and 2) knows more about the CoC's real sources which the Chamber is absolutely refusing to reveal? The Chamber is hiding something. They a spending a sh*tload of money in this election and need to fess up as to where it is coming from.

[backtomn]

102. I don't believe that this will work

Instinctively, people will not agree with a "prove you are not guilty" approach. It is just not what we are about. There have to be some facts out there and we should find them.

[gristy]

6. chamber of commerce funds are completely fungible

Read between the lines on this one: "The chamber adamantly denies that foreign funds are used in its U.S. election efforts"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungibility

[drm604]

8. Please give us examples of left-wing astroturf campaigns run by Freedom Works.

I think you're mistaken about that.

[TomCADem]

14. WSJ - "Mortgage Bailout Infuriates Tenants (And Steve Forbes)" - Angry Renters Against Homeowners

Here is a May 2008 article before the Tea Party and before President Obama was even elected, here is Freedomworks running an astroturf campaign from the left on behalf of angry renters against mortgage relief to homeowners. The campaign purported to be representing poor renters who did not have enough money to purchase a home, who were railing against irresponsible homeowners who could benefit from mortgage relief!

What surprises me is the naivete of some folks who think that Freedom Works has never and would never try to manipulate the left through an astroturf campaign. Do we really believe that Freedom Works and other corporate funded ad shops are just so ethical that they would not try to turn the left against Democrats?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121090164137297527.html

'Angry Renter' Web Site Has Grass-Roots Look, But This Turf Is Fake

WASHINGTON -- AngryRenter.com looks a bit like a digital ransom note, with irregular fonts, exclamation points and big red arrows -- all emphasizing prudent renters' outrage over a proposed government bailout for irresponsible homeowners.

"It seems like America's renters may NEVER be able to afford a home," AngryRenter.com laments. The Web site urges like-minded tenants to let Congress feel their fury by signing an online petition. "We are millions of renters standing up for our rights!"

Angry they may be, but the people behind AngryRenter.com are certainly not renters. Though it purports to be a spontaneous uprising, AngryRenter.com is actually a product of an inside-the-Beltway conservative advocacy organization led by Dick Armey, the former House majority leader, and publishing magnate Steve Forbes, a fellow Republican. It's a fake grass-roots effort -- what politicos call an AstroTurf campaign -- that provides a window into the sleight-of-hand ways of Washington.

[drm604]

16. Please see my response to your post #12.

I see nothing about angryrenter.com that screams left-wing to me. The kind of anger it expresses about the use of tax dollars seems much more typical of right-wingers to me.

By the way, I never said, implied, or thought that Freedomworks was above trying to manipulate the left through an astroturf campaign, and I certainly do not believe that they are in the least bit ethical. I would appreciate it GREATLY if you would not put such words in my mouth.

[TomCADem]

44. Well, Fighting For Tenants' Rights Always Struck Me As Progressive...

...in Santa Monica when rent control issues were attracting the attention of the entire state, I do not recall many corporate types on the side of the renters.

[kenfrequed]

37. I don't think that really counts...

At least not as a strictly left wing astroturf thing.

[Enthusiast]

36. It was falsely characterized

as "left wing".

They have a MASSIVE misinformation campaign going - 24/7. One of the biggest is that the Tea Party is a grass roots phenomenon. We have heard the claim that the Tea Party is grass roots repeated on every single M$M source. All lies all the time.

[tsuki]

9. Ahhhh, does the poor chamber feel like it is getting breitbarted?

I really feel bad for them.

[defendandprotect]

11. How about the Democratic Party rejecting ALL corporate payola and bribes?

Wouldn't that be nice ... ???

[emilyg]

20. Won't happen.

[defendandprotect]

23. Wasn't that Speaker Pelosi the other day saying she was going to shame Repugs ....

about taking corporate $$ ???

[Democat]

27. How about attacking Republicans not Democrats?

At least wait until after the election to try to undermine our side.

[No Elephants]

33. I thought "our side" was the side of the people?

[ronnie624]

43. Exactly.

'My team, right or wrong', is not what I am about.

[TomCADem]

46. Yes, so shouldn't Republicans Also Be Held Accountable? Even more so...

...since they are receiving the vast bulk of corporate donations?

Why do they get a free pass? Instead, reading these posts, it seems like Democrats are the ones who are the beneficiaries of Chamber campaign spending.

[defendandprotect]

107. Repugs should be held accountable .... so should Democrats be held accountable ...

one does NOT preclude the other!

[Democat]

47. There are two sides who may win in the eletion - the tea party or the democrats

After the election, we can get back to undermining democrats. For now, how about helping defeat the extreme right?

[defendandprotect]

105. We're "attacking" the deed .... not the individual .... whether Repugs or Dems do the deed ....!!

No concerns about corporate payola, pre-bribing candidates -- pre-ownership of

candidates and elected officials?

How much did Obama and Baucus get from the health care industry?

How badly does Wall Street want access to the Social Security funds?

Why is Obama putting Wall Street in charge of our economic affairs?

Did we elect a Democratic president so he could put corporations in control of government?

[TBF]

29. Interesting to watch on here -

people still holding on to the notion that the democratic party is free of lobbying interests ...

[emilyg]

64. Some people. Others

know better.

[earth mom]

76. I know, it's funny as hell to read this thread. C'mon people, wake up and smell the corruption!

Sounds like Obama is just having some sour grapes that his side didn't get their fair share. :eyes:

[Hansel]

100. It's interesting to watch on here -

people pretending that the vast majority of Chamber and lobbyist money is not going to Republicans and that the vast majority of the Chamber's campaign ads are not squarely attacking populist and progressive ideals in the interest of furthering the total power grab of global corporations and the wealthy.

[defendandprotect]

108. Interesting to see how many of those corporate officials Obama has put in government ....

Wasn't a Citicorp guy -- former executive at Citicorp -- one of the last ones ... ?

Lew at OBM ....

Any chance we'll next be hearing that drug money is being LAUNDERED directly thru

government???

[TomCADem]

45. Ah, Giving Republicans A Free Pass As They Oppose Any Campaign Finance Bill...

...in the wake of Citizens United. Instead, despite a 7 to 1 spending advantage by corporations, you now demand that Democrats completely disarm without no such demand of the Republicans. Why is it okay for Republicans to gain massive advantage from corporate donations?

Shouldn't they be called upon to reject such donations?

[TBF]

92. Yes, both should. In fact they should be completely restricted from ANY

corporate donations - on both sides of the aisle.

[Historic NY]

17. W/o disclosure one wouldn't know if bin Laden enterprises was a contributor....

it could be drug money from some cartels or any other number of possibilities since the money is allegedly untraceable.

[applegrove]

19. Apparently the DNC has an ad coming out that trashes Rove and foreign influences.

I can't wait to see it next week.

[flamingdem]

21. REC nt

[meowomon]

24. What has taken our president so long to get on the offensive?

I think this may be too little and too late.

[TBF]

30. Well he just got rid of Rahm -

who was the protector of all things corporate.

[emulatorloo]

42. 1. the chamber revelation was just a couple days ago. 2. the voters just started paying attention

[PassingFair]

67. Chamber of Horrors details were available YEARS ago.

http://www.slate.com/id/2232441/

[defendandprotect]

109. Thank you!!! This is something that has always amazed me ....

as our business leaders have over decades marched off to Chamber of Commerce

luncheons and meetings!! What the hell?

No one could guess?

[Ken Burch]

25. It's good that he's saying this...but please let it be in time.

The Prez should have been in full campaign mode by August.

[Hubert Flottz]

26. They need to be deported along with the jobs they deport.

[defendandprotect]

110. We should slam the door on all of these foreign-made products!!!

[fasttense]

28. Oh, that Citizens United decision is a gift that keeps on giving to Communist China,

India, even Osama Bin Laden could get in on the act.

Oh, those right-wing crazy Dancing Supremes really handed foreign and nationalized (talking socialist) corporations a big hefty hand in influencing American elections.

Want endless wars to bankrupt the US government? Just funnel some money through the US Chamber of Horrors and they will ensure none of those Peace activists get elected. Want every manufacturing job and most administrative jobs to move out of the US into your country? Just funnel some money through the US Chamber of Horrors and they will ensure "free" trade idiots are the only ones elected. The possibilities are endless. Want the US to be more Communist-like? Just funnel some money through the US Chamber of Horrors.

The ignorance and hubris of the Dancing Supremes knows no bounds. It's as if they wanted to destroy Democracy in America.

It would have been more direct if they had simply handed every corporation in every foreign country (state controlled or privatized) 100,000 votes in every election.

[thetonka]

59. I keep hearing people bashing the SC about this decision

I think the decision is going to cause a TON of problems and make an already corrupt goverment significantly worse. And to be clear I believe both parties will fall to massive corporate spending.

HOWEVER, the supreme court opinions HAVE to be based on law. I've read some of the opinions and I agree it is based in the law. If you have a problem with the law or the interpretation of the law you talk to the law makers.

The real failure in this is not that the supreme court came to this decision, it's that the lawmakers have done NOTHING to fix it. But why would anyone in DC that could potentially get access to this increase in free money do anything to jeopardize this? The fact that there is no significant progress to fix this law is frightening, and very telling. Our government is already mostly owned by the corporations and special interests, unless something is done that mostly will easily change to completely.

If you think our government puts you the people above all you a very ignorant of reality.

[veganlush]

69. Citizens united means only

corporatist's will win elections. It means one party rule. The parties will be indistinguishable in their single-minded support of issues favoring the wealthy. There will be no Democratic Party in the aftermath of this and the window is shutting fast. It will take an act of congress to stop it, but by that time they'll all be one of THEM.

[thetonka]

79. Exactly, scary huh?

[quakerboy]

84. Wasnt it decided 5-4?

With 2 of the 5 being Roberts and Alito?

[pnwmom]

86. So you agree with the majority opinions and not the minority opinions?

It didn't pass 9 - 0.

If you only read parts of the opinion, how can you say you agree with it?

[thetonka]

87. No

I agree that they based there decisions on the law. The SC should not be making laws, which is what is needed to fix this mess.

I agree with the decision, but I do not like it. We need the lawmakers to fix the law or pass a new one to clean up this mess. Unfortunately I have no faith in any of the politicians. Why would they try to pass a law that takes away access to the goose that lays the golden eggs?

[Hansel]

101. It was their bastardized interpretation of the Constitution...

in which they claim corporations are people. You can't really write a law to overcome that. You need to replace the supreme court with less corrupt people or pass a Constitutional amendment. The decision was a power grab for the rich and the supreme court, tilted by Bush's extreme right wing appointments, sealed the deal.

Obama is absolutely correct. This is a decision that puts our democracy in jeopardy and was purposefully designed to do so.

[thetonka]

112. Not the interpretation by this court

you are talking about the controversial recording of Santa Clara County V Southern Pacific Railroad.

And just to be honest, the notes that are used to support the argument that the Fourteenth Amendment applies to Corporations, and consequently the supreme court opinion you are talking about, happened LONG before W was even born.

http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/personhood/santa_clara_vs_southern_pacific.html

Like I said, the opinion on corporations legal rights to donate as it pertains to freedom of speech are based on existing law. Now you can go back and argue that the law they are using is flawed, but it is the law none-the-less.

IMHO it would not take a constitution amendment to fix this and the constitution does not clearly define a corporations as an individual, the key would be to pass a law clearing up the interpretation of corporation.

Although I would support a constitutional amendment eliminating the influence of corporations and special interest groups over the government. Realistic and reasonable campaign finance reform would be a better and effective soltion, IMHO.

[defendandprotect]

111. Great points ... Congress isn't fixing decision + MSM gets 80% of the money for TV ads!

[Gin Blossom]

75. Well said. The Republicans support the same policies our competitors & enemies do.

Bin Laden's son saying BL was overjoyed W* got elected comes to mind.

[The Uncola]

31. To be blunt...

.. this should have begun much earlier. Better late that never.

[COLGATE4]

38. Absolutely right. Let's just hope that it's not too little, too late. nt

[elias7]

49. Yeah, but perhaps they couldn't have started earlier

...because they didn't have the goods. Unless of course the claim is total bullshit, in which case the timing is better late, lest is be disproven before November 2nd.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enthusiast]

32. What left wing astroturf?

Name them.

[TomCADem]

51. They Are Not Left Wing, They Are Corporate Funded Groups Posing As Progressive Causes...

...attacking Democrats from the alleged left such as the tenant rights campaign run by Freedom Works protesting mortgage relief to homeowners.

I could also add right wing funding of Green Party candidates as a classic bit of astroturfing.

[No Elephants]

35. Good. Let's just make sure Democrats don't do anything like that.

[SomeGuynTexas]

40. The Chamber of Commerce needs to be silenced....

If we have proof that foreign corporations are contributing to influence US elections via the chamber then the President publicly calling for them to be investigated and ultimately silenced is what is best for out country.

[wordpix]

50. an organization that used to represent American business now represents multinational corpos

VERY happy O called them out

[Lasher]

56. Good for him, and he should go after Republicans and their ideologies night and day.

Our problem has always been, the rich people have all the extra money. Here in 'hicky' West Virginia we're being bombarded by John Raese ads, and and not much from Joe Manchin.

Raese has raised $3,326,336 compared to Joe's $418,369. Raese has spent almost all of his because he knows there's more where it came from. Manchin appears to be wisely holding back for a blitz closer to election day.

http://www.opensecrets.org/races/summary.php?cycle=2010&id=WVS1

Joe Manchin campaign website

[Hubert Flottz]

58. A cople of drone attacks might not be a bad idea...

The Chamber of Commerce has done more to destroy American democracy than the "Terra-ists" abroad have done!

[Blue Owl]

61. K&R

K&R

[lonestarnot]

62. Hot diggity. You go Mr. President, meanwhile back at the ranch,

lonestarnot continues his/her attack on the Chase bank. :evilgrin:

[LaPera]

65. Don't ever let down Prez-We have to change anonymous corporate campaign money laws!

[Matariki]

66. I want Congress to come up with a plan to address the problem.

They need to change the law that allows unlimited donations from corporations or single donors - not just use it as a fund raising 'scare tactic'.

[veganlush]

68. what needs to be said, loud and often,

won't be because the Democrats are pussies, but what needs to be shouted from the rooftops is that the Repugnants are supporting and condoning and using a system that would allow even Bin Laden to use his millions to effect our elections. Can you image if the shoe was on the other foot? Yet you'll hardly hear a peep about this, other than here, preached loudly to the choir.

[AndrewP]

70. Very nicely done President Obama

[BEZERKO]

71. Bust their sorry asses!

[markmyword]

74. Put our country back in the hands of the people!

Obama needs to keep the pressure up and so do we. Congress has
to pass a law, in which ALL donations MUST be disclosed.
 
WE NEED CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAWS AND NOW! Other countries DO NOT
spend this kind of money on campaigns. We should have a limit
of UNDER ONE MILLION DOLLARS. 

Real citizens are FROZEN out of the electoral process and
can't even consider running for political office. With the
state of our democracy, we NEED REGULAR citizens, who
represent the people elected to office.

Maybe we should BAN MILLIONAIRES from running?

PUT OUR COUNTRY BACK IN THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE!

[ProSense]

77. Media Matters

Lies, damn lies, and stuff Karl Rove says

[markmyword]

78. Where Oh Where Has Democracy Gone?

What has happened to America?
I BLAME THE REPUBLICANS for:

STEALING ELECTIONS:
Electronic voting machines rigged by the Republicans

The Supreme Court crowning (appointing) King George

The Chamber of Commerce with those FOREIGN DONATIONS

Smearing a candidates reputation during a campaign
 
Funding(by wealthy republicans) TEA PARTY candidates
and the protesters.

Fox Propaganda(news, not really)

Controlling the press, telling editors what to publish and
what not to print.

We need to draw a line in the sand and DEMAND that the Chamber
DISCLOSE who is giving it money.

I DON'T want foreign investors CHOOSING my
President,House,Senate or state Governors.

We MUST DEMAND DISCLOSURE from the Chamber of Commerce(a front
for Republicans).


 

[axollot]

85. K & R!! Pardon but it's nice to feel like Obama's got his... back!

The RW passed a law so braison they thought they could put it to the full test of the (new) law within months before people forgot what that case even was, exactly! I'm glad at least they did it during an election year. Maybe, we will have more momentum to get this particular law put out of it's misery.

Love it when 'pukes who are so inept they have a hard time socialising online as they do in person and show themselves. (Remember McCain doesnt know how to even e-mail, even if their staff does) They think that the nation at large wouldnt notice and take action since they would buy the media but missing their target. Reinforcing that we are under a 'money bomb siege' from corporate interests.

We have to fix this soon and vote continue working to stop it, we may be able to start pushing them back after this chit. We're a lot less naive now then in 2000.

Ya know the saying...

Cheers
Sandy

[Agony]

89. For starters stop giving them federal tax dollars that they use to screw around with

other countries economies. The US Chamber of Commerce gets money every year from NED. Start requiring that they disclose ALL sources of funding if they are to continue to received federal tax dollars.

Center for International Private Enterprise (CIPE)
The Center for International Private Enterprise is an independent, non-profit affiliate of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. As one of the four core institutes of the National Endowment for Democracy, CIPE promotes democratic and market-oriented economic reform by working directly with the private sector in developing countries.

[KurtNYC]

90. the headline avoids mentioning the charges Obama levels

(church lady): "Isn't that convenient ?"

[glitch]

95. Freedomworks funding leftwing astroturf campaigns? Could you provide an example? TIA.

edit: I see I am not the only one to pick up on that BOGUS claim. Thanks to the other posters who got here before me and debunked it.

Amazing what passes for Left these days... the article w/o the commentary gets the K & R

[TomCADem]

115. Obama Criticizes Tax-Exempt Pro-Republican Groups

Source: Business Week

President Barack Obama is stepping up criticism of tax-exempt Republican-leaning groups using undisclosed donations to fund "attack ads" less than a month before congressional elections, a complaint his opponents call baseless.

"It could be the oil industry" funding the ads, Obama told a Democratic rally yesterday in Philadelphia. "It could be the insurance industry, it could even be foreign-owned corporations.

You don't know because they don't have to disclose." Democrats have spent weeks rebuking pro-Republican outside groups that are flooding the airwaves with tens of millions of dollars worth of political advertising before the Nov. 2 midterm elections. A new ad from the Democratic National Committee says the U.S. Chamber of Commerce may be taking "secret foreign money to influence our elections," a charge the business group denies.

Earlier yesterday, senior Obama adviser David Axelrod singled out the Chamber over its sources of donations. "If the Chamber opens up its books and says here's where our political money's coming from," Axelrod said on CBS's "Face the Nation" program, "then we'll know. But until they do that, all we have is their assertion."


Read more: http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/oct2010/db20101011_055154.htm

---

Of course, us little people cannot write off our donations to DU, but corporations and billionaires are writing off their political contributions to groups headed by Karl Rove.

[Beavker]

116. Obama Criticizes Tax-Exempt Pro-Republican Groups

...which should also include pretty much every Church in this country.

A neighbor of mine went to this Christian church last weekend that he normally attends. He's not sure on his beliefs, but likes the feel, the message, and I guess the music they play. He's spiritual I suppose.

He said, the Pastor, who is normally pretty good, went off message and started talking about Muslims. Now my neighbor didn't say exactly what he was saying, but from his tone (disapproving, wonderment as to why it was necessary) I suppose he was getting his jabs in at them as most have done.

I think there is a point, as that jack ass anti-Mosque fool showed us, that these Churches are no longer there to do what they say they are, or what is expected of them. They are now a political faction, a hate group. Even if you don't agree with another religion, or if you hate Gays, or are against abortion...keep you mouth shut in public, and even refrain in house from speaking about it. Keep to the point. Let your 'flock' decide.

Otherwise, especially when you make public comments, you should LOSE your tax-exempt status.