UN 'secret votes' won't sway Canada: PM

[iverglas]

Source: CBC

Last Updated: Thursday, October 14, 2010 | 4:59 PM ET

Prime Minister Stephen Harper says Canada bases its international engagement on principles, not "popularity," and won't be swayed by "secret votes" at the United Nations.

The prime minister's comments Thursday come two days after Canada withdrew its bid for a non-permanent seat on the UN Security Council and ceded the spot on the powerful international body to vote-leading Portugal.

"As I've said before, our engagement internationally is based on the principles that this country holds dear," Harper told reporters at an event in eastern Quebec. "It is not based on popularity."

The Canadian government, Harper said, takes its positions based on the promotion of "our values — freedom, democracy, human rights and the rule of law, justice, development, humanitarian assistance for those who need it.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/10/14/harper-un-security-council-seat.html

---

And the real-er story:

http://www.cbc.ca/mt_ept/stories/2010/10/13/policy-cost-canada-un-seat-ex-ambassador.html

Policy cost Canada UN seat: ex-ambassador

Experts are blaming Canada's failure to win a seat on the United Nations Security Council on its foreign policy, not political division, a day after Tuesday's surprise loss in New York.

Paul Heinbecker, Canada's former ambassador to the UN and a leading critic of the government's foreign policy, said many of Canada's decisions -- including decreased African aid, its support of Israel, and its stance on climate change and peacekeeping -- are unpopular with the international community.

... It is the first time Canada has failed in its bid for a Security Council seat. Canada has been on the Security Council six times, roughly once a decade, since the 1940s. The country's last term ended in 2000. Germany and Portugal have also been on the council before. Canada campaigned for nine years -- since its last term on the council -- for a seat. In the final days of Tuesday's bid, Canada wined and dined diplomats, offering them gifts of Canadian beer and maple syrup.

And what right-thinking ;) Canadians think of it all:

http://www.ceasefire.ca/?p=5629

Canada’s loss at the UN - What’s your reaction?

<latest comment posted:> Canada earned this well deserved rebuke. We have elected repeatedly Steven Harper the blame lies with those who voted for him and the many more who did NOT vote at all.

As a first generation Canadian I never thought I would say this.

I am ashamed to be Canadian today.

[Dave From Canada]

1. We as a country need to look to the great examples of Iran and Libya. Only when we emulate those

great nations will we be worthy of such UN status. :P

[jaybeat]

2. Harper's trying to emulate Bush II

The one with the most unpopular foreign policy wins--and their country loses!

[Dave From Canada]

3. I'm not really sure how Harper's foreign policy differs from Obama's. If at all.

[Bragi]

7. A few ways they differ...

I'm no fan of Obama's foreign policy approaches, but he is light years better than Harper.

For example:

- Harper hates the UN, Obama doesn't.

- Obama supports talks with the Taliban, Harper doesn't.

- Harper supports global austerity programs to combat recession, Obama doesn't.

- Compared to Harper, Obama is a radical pro-Palestinian

That's just top of mind for me.

[Dave From Canada]

10. None of that is actual implemented foreign policy. You're just citing their possible differences

in personal opinions. When you look at each country's foreign policy specifics, there's very little difference. Other than Harper has pledged to actually leave Afghanistan next year. While Obama has simply suggested that there's a possibility. Harper's drawing down in Afghanistan. Obama's escalated things. And you're wrong about Harper not supporting talks with the Taliban. He actually does. Perhaps you just assumed that he didn't. And since when does supporting auserity programs to combat recessions cause divisiveness at the UN? Do we have to spend money we don't have to appease voting countries?

Like I said, I guess Canada has to follow the good examples of Iran and Libya in order to get a seat at the table.

[iverglas]

18. I'll bet you've heard of false dichotomies

I mean, you construct them so well, you seem to have done advanced studies.


P.S. You did notice that it was Portugal and Germany that got the seats?

[iverglas]

8. I don't see a need to reference Obama or the US here

The event involved Canada, and is about Canada. Canadian foreign policy under Harper is shameful, by Canadian standards.

It's always fun when we can pat ourselves on the back about our foreign policy (and all other things Canadian) being better than all things USAmerican, but that's not what this is about. If all we can take pride in is that we do things better than the U.S., we're setting the bar for ourselves pretty low.

Of course, it is fun to note that the U.S. didn't support Harper's bid for the seat. Talk about being bit by the hand you've spent your time in office sucking up to.

Nonetheless, those in the U.S. might want to consider your comment. There's not much about current Canadian foreign policy, under an activist right-wing government, that differs from or is worse than U.S. foreign policy.

Of course, there's not a lot about foreign policy under the Conservatives that differs from foreign policy under the Liberals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Canada#Unification_and_the_post_Cold_War_era

On October 9, 2008, the CBC published this statement:

in their book, The Unexpected War, University of Toronto professor Janice Gross Stein and public policy consultant Eugene Lang write that the Liberal government would actually boast of that contribution to Washington. "In an almost schizophrenic way, the government bragged publicly about its decision to stand aside from the war in Iraq because it violated core principles of multilateral-ism and support for the United Nations. At the same time, senior Canadian officials, military officers and politicians were currying favour in Washington, privately telling anyone in the State Department or the Pentagon who would listen that, by some measures, Canada's indirect contribution to the American war effort in Iraq — three ships and 100 exchange officers — exceeded that of all but three other countries that were formally part of the coalition."

(And of course our contribution to the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan freed up U.S. resources for the U.S.'s adventure in Iraq.)

Yes, the Conservatives have brought in our domestic equivalent of Bush's "global gag rule" when it comes to our contribution to women's reproductive health in foreign aid, and we can always count on the Liberals to be the "liberal" party on things like that. But when it comes to the big picture, nope, not much light between them.

[applegrove]

5. Harper tried to blame the liberals for loosing two days ago. Now

he claims to be taking a principled stand. What a baby.

[whosinpower]

14. Yeah, well his principled stand means not very much

And clearly the principles of Portugal are more worthy of a seat.

As a Canadian, it comes as no great surprise to me that we did not get a seat. Our "principled" stand on climate change is appalling....embarrassing really.

Our "principled" stand on Omar Kadr is even more embarrassing.

Our foreign policy is dictated by whatever the Americans are doing - to a great degree. And when Steven Harper went down to Fox news and condemned Chretien for NOT getting involved in Iraq -he was an embarrassment to the nation. The giant kissing ass sound towards George W. Bush was appalling.

He does not realize the chapped lips he has are not due to "principles".....but a lack of them.

[applegrove]

22. Yeah and what Harper did when Michelle Jean and Obama wanted to meet

to talk about Haiti was deplorable. I mean Haiti needs all the help it can get and did before the earthquake. And Obama and Jean met and liked each other.

[Spazito]

6. LOL, harper will go down in the history books with this humiliating...

incident, not to mention the other one...oh...I am going to mention it...the debacle over the base in the UAE because the harper cabal, as usual, doesn't know how to behave like adults and, as a result, the UAE closed their airspace to the Minister of National Defense while he was in the air.

I guess you are VERY angry at the wooing done by the harper cabal to try and WIN that seat then, all the money wasted on the G8 and the G20, fake lake and all, all the scmoozing that was done the days before the vote. I have no doubt you sent a scathing e-mail to them given your loathing of the UN.

So, given the harper cabal first blamed Ignatieff for the loss and then, when that didn't work, it was the oh so scary, nefarious "secret vote", the kind of secret voting Canada does every election, which do you think was to blame seeing as it COULDN'T have been the harper cabal's own actions internationally that did the 'dirty deed'?

[CHIMO]

4. Glad to

See that you are still around.

The sand castle is falling. The long knives are close by.

The way to get rid of this Guy is to support your party with money. If you don't give to a party they will overwhelm us with their propaganda.

Get involved.

I am not ashamed to be a Canadian.

I have never supported this guy nor does he represent me. If we get together then we can do to Harper what appears to be happening to Ford.

And good to see that you are still here.

[iverglas]

9. still around, occasionally ;)

Used to be able to drop by here for informative and enlightening exchanges of ... well, more than one-liner opinions, anyhow. Those were the days.

The problem with this stuff is that the people who vote for Harper and his party like it. You just can't shame people who have no shame.

[Scout]

11. heidi ho good neighbor!

nice to see you

:hi:

[iverglas]

17. g'day g'day!

It's been a while, for sure. Busy herding feral cats here, these days. Need a kitten? ;)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. Quoth:

There's no such thing as the United Nations. If the U.N. secretary building in New York lost 10 stories, it wouldn't make a bit of difference. -John Bolton

[iverglas]

15. Strange quote!

The "U.N. Secretary building"? "10 stories"? :wtf:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._Bolton

This article may be inaccurate in or unbalanced towards certain viewpoints.

Bolton has been a strong critic of the United Nations for much of his career. In a 1994 Global Structures Convocation hosted by the World Federalist Association (now Citizens for Global Solutions), he stated,

"There is no such thing as the United Nations. There is only the international community, which can only be led by the only remaining superpower, which is the United States." He also stated that "The Secretariat Building in New York has 38 stories. If you lost ten stories today, it wouldn't make a bit of difference."

Well, it's still spelled "storeys", but at least that makes a little more sense, obnoxious as it is. The other one is indeed all over the net, though.

Odd thing to say. Almost sounds as if he's inviting someone to lop 10 floors off the UN building ...

;)


... fixin' that html ... again ...

[Posteritatis]

13. Nice to see our prime minister hates the secret ballot

That bodes well for the next election...

[iverglas]

16. well, c'mon, though

There actually is a difference between individuals exercising the democratic right to participate in choosing their their government, with neither fear nor favour as an inducement, and decisions made by states members of international bodies. I'm not so sure the latter should be secret myself.

I don't think one can reason that because Harper dislikes the latter, he is hostile to the former.

Not that I'm not sure he doesn't find the former inconvenient. ;)

[Darth_Kitten]

19. Shit, I'd never be ashamed to be a Canadian....

it's a bloody privilege. :(

First generation "Canadian" should be damn PROUD to be a Canadian.

[iverglas]

20. failing to take your point

Of course it's a privilege to be Canadian -- I've said exactly those words myself.

How does that require one to be proud to be a Canadian?

It's a privilege to be all sorts of things in this world, when one considers what else one might be. Having the good fortune to be part of one group rather than another certainly does not mean that must be proud of everything one's group does. One can very definitely be ashamed of what one's privileged group does.

I'm ashamed of a lot of things Canada is doing these days, and in a moment of hyperbole, I might say I'm ashamed to be Canadian. I'm a third-generation Canadian. Do I get a pass? Did my grandparents have to wear the quotation marks around Canadian for 85 years (in one case)? Or did them being English to the bone and getting here 101 years ago exempt them from that?

Very strange thing to say.

[Darth_Kitten]

21. Nothing strange about it at all.

Someone is ashamed to be a Canadian because Canada didn't get a bloody seat on the Security Council?

Yes, I'm a proud Canadian and always will be, despite who my Prime Minister is. This country has done a lot of good in the world. You seem to sweat the really small stuff. Very strange. :eyes: Touchy, much?

Don't project onto me, please. My ancestors came to Canada for a reason, and they never would have said they were "ashamed" of being Canadian. But then again, my family taught me to be grateful for all the benefits I DO have.

[iverglas]

23. not making sense at all

I gave a link to where that was posted, and I pointed out that it was simply the most recent post there. Did you happen to click and read at all?

The poster in question was not "ashamed to be a Canadian because Canada didn't get a bloody seat on the Security Council".

Try reading for comprehension. And try not reading hyperbole and pretending believe that the words should be read in their literal meaning.

I posted on that page. I used a form of the word "shame" twice myself.

I am absolutely ashamed of a lot of things this country is doing these days. I was deeply ashamed when several members of the Canadian military tortured a teenager to death in Somalia. They work for us collectively, I share in the collective responsibility for what they do, and I was ashamed. I didn't vote for Harper's government, but Canadians collectively are responsible for that government and for what it does, and as a Canadian I am ashamed of what it does. Ahsamed to be a Canadian? Maybe not quite yet, but the day could come.

Don't project onto you? What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

If you're too lazy to click and read what I linked to, I'll offer a few more recent posts, from Canadians. I can't tell what generation they are. Maybe you can.

October 15th, 2010 at 10:30 am

Sadly, losing the seat is a better alternative than being embarrassed for the next two years by the Harper government’s performance on the Security Council.

October 15th, 2010 at 10:14 am

What was left of Canada’s reputation as a peace maker was destroyed by the Liberal government at the time sending troops to make war for Bush and Company in Afghanistan. Bush wannabe Stephen Harper, with less than 40% of the popular vote has fully committed Canada to the infamous Bush doctrine of permanent war and disregard for international law. Alas, a Liberal government under Hawkier-than-thou Michael “Torture-Lite” Ignatieff can be expected to continue on this disgraceful path. Not a bright picture for Canada in the immediate future. Canadians who believe in peace and human rights have an obligation to resist.

The Security Council debacle was a farce. Attempting to bribe delegates with Canadian beer, maple syrup and a photo-op with a full-dress Mountie would be laughable if it weren’t so disgusting. Canada as a laughing stock, in a sane world, would be a wake-up call to Canadians; but with corporate ownership of both major political parties, and compliant mass media, don’t expect much to come of it all.

October 15th, 2010 at 8:59 am

Harper and the conservatives were elected and now we are getting what we deserve - shunned by the UN and developing countries. Like many so-called first worlds Cnd has exploited developing countries such as in South Africa or the Congo (mining), it exploits and subjugates First Nations people at home, and it steps on women seeking equality in this country. Furthermore, Cnd is participating in military oppression, and continues to renege on promises of assistance, for example Haiti (see Oxfam’s call to get Flaherty to rescind the freeze http://act.oxfam.ca/act/budgetmessage2010/petition_view.php)

October 15th, 2010 at 7:34 am

When a country has regressive conservatives in office, the world cringes. There have been too many despots and criminals in developing countries. To have one in a leading democracy is viewed poorly by many countries (and so it should be).

Perhaps if our foreign policy returns to a compassionate place, and our domestic respect of civil & human rights are once again something to be lauded, then the world might also think that we deserve a place on the Security Council of the UN. They did when we acted in an ethical and respectful way, when we were a country that led the world in a positive direction (albeit with its own problems). Let’s do everything we can as Canadians, as citizens of the world, to further these values in the future.

October 15th, 2010 at 12:56 am

It is a disgrace to see Canada rejected for a seat on the Security Coincil. PM Harper has made Canada a laughing stock because of his retrogressive stand on the environment, lowering of restrictions regarding offshore oil drilling, women’s rights, cutting funding for KAIROS, turning his back on a National Childcare Policy and the list goes on. His firing of individuals who disagree with him and his muzzling of scientists are disgraceful. He must be removed from office before he is allowed to turn Canada into a third world country with no Medical Care or other social services.

October 14th, 2010 at 10:53 pm

Shame on Canadians for allowing a right wing, self serving, Reform Party zealot as our Prime Minister.
Injustice anywhere, is a threat to justice everywhere.
The United Nations has spoken. Now It’s our turn in the next election.

That last one was from a guy named Gord, saying shame on Canadians. Maybe we should request his pedigree.

I actually assumed that Canadians who post at this site would agree with those sentiments.