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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 01:36 AM
Original message
Fox Says It Is Off Cablevision (but not Fox News)
Edited on Sat Oct-16-10 01:39 AM by alp227
Source: Broadcasting & Cable

Fox said early Saturday that as of midnight, Cablevision viewers no longer have access to WNYW and WWOR, "home of Major League Baseball's National League Championship Series and the World Series, the NFL on Fox, American Idol, Glee, House, The Simpsons, Family Guy, the local news and other prominent programming."

Midnight Oct. 15 was the deadline for the two sides to come to terms on a new carriage deal.

Read more: http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/458497-Fox_Says_It_Is_Off_Cablevision.php



From Multichannel News:

On the New York broadcast stations, Cablevision instead aired a lengthy message beginning : "We regret to inform you that News Corp., in an act of corporate greed, has pulled the plug on Fox 5 and My 9


So if you're one of the few Philadelphia Phillies or San Francisco Giants fans residing in the New York City area and stuck with Cablevision: either go to the local sports bar or pirate the game online or monitor game statistics on MLB At Bat Gameday or Twitter. Tomorrow, the NL Championship Series begins between SF and Philly.

Unfortunately, Fox News Channel still exists on Cablevision right now. So sports=no, but right-wing lies=yes. So do other Fox-owned cable channels like FX.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. They'll be back. Food Network and the Yankees pulled the same shit...
with Cablevision and found out they need the cable more than the cable needs them-- blacking out huge swaths in the New York metro area just makes no sense.

According to Cablevision, Fox wants more to carry its two stations than then all the other local stations combined.

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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I remember that.
Was living on LI at the time. Fox wanted more money & was sure they'd get it, too.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Consistent: Republican = greed uber alles
Fox on fewer stations. boo hoo
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Tunkamerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks, you know people lose their jobs if their local station suddenly
starts selling way fewer ads due to not being seen by more than half the local population.
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Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. I suggest you educate yourself on the subject before opining.
There's an excellent post downthread, #9, which explains the backstory quite well.
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Tunkamerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
33. Well thanks for the suggestion.
And while I'm not part of management at the station that deals with retrans negotiations, I do hear about it a lot. And I responded below.

And the response explains a point of view. Not the entire picture. There are actually two sides. Sometimes that happens.
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Tunkamerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Well, speaking as someone who works at a Fox affiliate...
Edited on Sat Oct-16-10 03:54 AM by Tunkamerica
the retrans rate cable pays network affiliates is way low compared to viewership. It's been a constant problem for every network since the nineties. We go through it every few years with Time-warner Cable. The cable companies keep lowering their bids despite the fact that more people watch the networks than 'the Ocho' or HTV. They know that local affiliates will rebel if they aren't on cable. It's fucked up all the way around.

On edit: All the networks feel this way. Fox is the only one standing up to the cable monopolies. Perhaps because they know cable is slightly weaker because of online options.
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cullen7282 Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I understand your point
but as someone who has worked in customer service for a cable company, I can see the flip side of the coin also. Most customers have a fit when their cable rates go up. If cable companies didn't take a stand against large increases by networks then the cable bill for the customer would increase largely because it would be passed down to the consumer. People wouldn't be happy then either.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. The monopolist here is Fox, not Cablevision
Edited on Sat Oct-16-10 07:52 AM by onenote
First, for nearly three decades, the broadcast industry demanded and got the special benefit of "must carry" on cable systems. In other words, cable systems had to carry the local stations,whether they wanted to or not. If it wasn't for this special privilege, not accorded to any other program services, Fox wouldn't even exist as a network, since the stations that became the original Fox affiliates were often UHF stations with poor signal coverage and crappy programming and would never have gotten carried.

Second, once retransmission consent rights were given to broadcasters in 1992, most of the agreements between broadcasters and cable were on non-cash terms so that something additional of value was given to the viewer, such as a new channel like FX, rather than simply making consumers pay more without getting anything new. This was a direct result of the relatively even bargaining power of the two sides -- there was one cable system and one affiliate and they needed each other.


What has changed is that the network affiliates continue to be the only game in town, but they can play the cable system off against a number of competitors -- DirecTV, Dish, Verizon FIOS, etc. So the leverage is entirely in the hands of the station, which controls monopolistic exclusive rights to programming. You want to see the playoffs or American Idol? Fox is your only choice. Moreover, the local affiliates are able to block the cable system from negotiating with any other Fox affiliate, even those that aren't owned by FOX.

So who is the monopolist? Why not allow the market to determine by letting Cablevision negotiate with the Hartford CT FOX affiliate (not owned by FOX) to bring its signal to viewers in NY and New Jersey?


Remember, the broadcast stations have been granted use of the public airwaves in return for a promise to serve their local communities with a free service that meets the communtiy's needs and interests. The broadcasters have used that special relationship to demand privileges, like must carry and territorial exclusivity, for years. Now they are turning around and gouging the public they are supposed to be serving.
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Tunkamerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #9
31. Actually the monopolist is Cablevision and the other cable companies
that have exclusive use of the cable infrastructure. We used to have several cable companies here in NC, including cablevision.

How many cable companies are in that part of the states? Because here, now it's just time warner.

And, local affiliates do serve a public interest by producing local content. If cable companies had their way it would just be nationwide channels they could get cheaply. No real local news, PSA's, Amber Alerts, weather alerts. Perhaps the biggest markets would get some benefit but the smaller ones wouldn't. To let a Hartford Ct. station produce the content for NY and NJ would be ludicrous from a logistics standpoint. Would they even try to do local news? Would it just be the Hartford/NY/NJ greater metro area traffic report? Would morning news go on for 4 hours just to report the everyday events? No. It would suffer for not being a local station.

And doesn't newscorp only own like 20 or so stations? The rest are owned by other companies; some big, some small. I work for a privately owned company that has four TV stations and several radio stations.

And the leverage definitely is not just in the hands of the local stations because everyone knows that if they aren't on Time Warner then they aren't going to compete for ad sales.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. you are mistaken about a number of things
Edited on Sun Oct-17-10 08:52 AM by onenote
On edit: in the interest of full disclosure, over the past 30 years I have represented cable companies, satellite companies, and broadcasters before the FCC and Congress, although most of my work has been on behalf of cable companies.


First, you never had multiple cable companies competing head to head in North Carolina until recently. Now ATT has launched service in parts of the state, there are competing municipal systems in some communities (such as Wilson NC), and everyone in the state has the option of getting essentially the same programming services from either DirecTV or DIsh that they previously could get only from their cable companies. While there has been consolidation in the sense that there are fewer cable companies operating in the state, those companies never competed against each other -- they each served separate franchise areas. Today, subscribers in those franchise areas typically have at least three and often four choices of multi-channel television service. Indeed, nationwide, the "traditional" cable industry had a 90 percent plus market share in 1992 when Congress created retransmission consent. Today, that percentage is down near 60 percent, with the other 30 percent taken by DirecTV, Dish, and the "overbuilders" like ATT, Verizon, Wide Open West, Knology, RCN (and various municipally-owned systems).

Second,the company known as Cablevision in New York is a completely distinct company from the Cablevision that operated in North Carolina (the one in New York is Cablevision Systems Corporation and is/has been controlled by the Dolan family); the one that operated in North Carolina was Cablevision Industries, Inc., and was controlled by a guy named Alan Gerry, who sold the systems to Time Warner back in the mid-1990s.

While its true that some local stations produce content of local interest, that is hardly universal (although, as discussed below, I think I know who owns your station and those station are still local-service oriented and do a good job). Groups such as Free Press, Media Access Project, etc. have documented the absence of local news content on a growing number of stations. Also, consolidation in the broadcast industry (directly or through the use of "local marketing agreements") haver resulted in a number of stations cutting back their local news gathering operations so that the stations all carry the exact same programming - less competition, and less diversity -- not good for the viewers. (Again, I'm not suggesting that is the case for your station; I'm pretty sure its not).

More to the point, the price that stations are demanding for retransmission consent is not reflective of the value of that local content. Its based on the value of the exclusive network programming content those stations offer. If it was merely local content, the market would be competitive, because a cable system could decide it could live without channel 5's news and weather if it has the news and weather from channel 7, or it could go out, as some cable companies have, and create its own local news/weather/public affairs content. But if you want the Phillies/Giants, or if you want American Idol, today your only option is your local affiliate.

Also, while Fox "only" has around 20 owned and operated stations, it increasingly dictates the terms of the retransmission consent agreements entered into by its non-owned affiliates. It does this by putting requirements in network affiliation agreement with those stations that require the station to turn over a certain amount of retransmission consent revenue to FOX and that bar those stations from negotiating with out-of-market cable operators. They even have restricted some stations from granting a contract for a period of longer than a year when the industry norm for the first 15 years of retransmission consent was a 3 year agreement. The reason for the short term? To be able to jack up the price more by using the threat of a service disruption to break the cable operator down.

As for leverage -- here's how it really works in many cases. A few years ago, Sinclair went after Mediacom, which is the largest cable operator in Iowa. Almost half of Mediacom's subscribers are in the state and most are in a Sinclair market (or a market that Sinclair controls through a marketing agreement with another station). But Sinclair operates in a number of other markets and in terms of the portion of its business represented by Iowa, its pretty small. So Sinclair could easily weather the loss of eyeballs if it cut off Mediacom, both because it was a small part of its overall business and because those subscribers would start migrating to Dish or DirecTV and ultimately Sinclair had little to lose. On the other hand, Mediacom was screwed. since half of its customers were in the dark with respect to certain network programming, just before the Super Bowl. THe end result -- Mediacom had to cave in and pay Sinclair what it was demanding.

Finally, i am not suggesting that every market is identical. I am pretty sure I know who your employer is based on your description, and if I'm right you work for a company that has multiple stations all located in North Carolina and thus presents a different situation than the Sinclair/Mediacom model I described in terms of leverage. In addition, the owner of your stations, if I'm right, is a decent, creative guy who is very local-service oriented and has worked well with his local cable operators in the past. WHile the most recent retransmission consent negotiations with your stations (if I'm right) were a bit bumpy, largely in my opinion because of the pressure from Fox and CBS to revenue share, they were resolved without a service disruption, in significant part because your owner is the kind of guy who still understands the commitment a broadcaster makes to serve its local community. Unfortunately, that sort of attitude is increasingly disappearing.

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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. I understand that point of view, but...
without cable, they wouldn't have those viewers anyway, and it's even worse now with HDTV and the lower transmission distances.

Right now, I can only get a few channels over the air, and none of them Fox. One could make the argument that Fox should pay Cablevision so I can watch "The Simpsons," "Glee," and "Lie to Me."

If I remember correctly, during the Yankees battle the Yankees' "Yes" network wanted $7 per subscriber and Cablevision went nuts thinking about how they would charge anything extra (even if they ate part of the cost) to all those households who don't watch the Yankees. Cablevision wanted to make it a pay-per-view or premiium station, and the Yankees were horrified at how much the cost would be then.

That was a few years ago, and I don't remember if there was an increase in the cable bill back then, but I get the Yes network.

"Online options"? Maybe, but most people around here get high-speed internet from the cable company. And it's too good a deal not to get TV, phone and internet together. Besides, has any network yet figured out to make money online?

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Styxiv Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Well
What ever happened to the majority of a networks revenue coming from ADVERTISEMENTS!! Spare me they are poor picked on by the cable company. Remember the good old days where TV came from an antenna? Where did the companies get their money then? ADVERTISEMENTS!! I have no problem with them charging the cable companies for broadcasting them don't get me wrong.

But how much is enough? Considering they still charge for advertising (and I've heard some of the insane prices for them) and I'm sure much of their operating expense still comes from this area (not all obviously since the biz has changed) So spare me the "there is much more to it" rant I KNOW THERE IS!!

BOTH sides need to give a little it's like when I worked for a Radio station Funny how they charge for the PRIVILEGE of us playing their music. I mean seriously think about it. How to do you get people to listen to your music and then buy it? RADIO!!! Yet "um sorry Mr.radio station if you want to play our songs pay me. REALLY so um Mr. Music man, so if we don't play you just how do you think your fans are gonna hear your stuff and buy it?

Like this cable AND networks ummm need what to be successful US, PERIOD!!! So no network no cable company, no CUSTOMERS NO Cable company OR network DUH!!! So Fox cuts off it channels o.k. what idiot figures NO money is better then SOME money?

Who do you really hurt when you cut that off the cable company? sure to some extent since ya may lose customers BUT in some areas there aren't alot of options so that's not even too big a risk. FOX loses because they loose that money too
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Tunkamerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #16
32. please see my reply above.
The amount charged for ads comes from the amount of people watching. The station does not make it's money on retrans agreements. It makes it on ad sales which I would assume (since it hasn't happened) go down dramatically if you aren't on cable.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. while advertising revenues still are greater than retransmission consent
the amount of retransmission consent payments by cable and satellite now tops $1 billion a year, and is rising rapidly. The stations do get some of that money, although the networks are demanding that the stations turn over a significant portion of the money to them.

In short,the networks are using their exclusive control over content to screw not only the cable companies and their customers, but also their local affiliates.
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Thor_MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. Faux is doing the same to Dish Network, I say drop Faux news
Cablevision and Dish should put up a 24 hour scroll on the channel for faux infotainment saying that Faux wants to double the price you pay for their programming. Scroll a list of companies that support Faux by advertising on their channels. Cable providers should unite and blank all Faux programming for a week, forcing Faux to have to return ad revenue to advertisers.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Fox News is covered by a separate contract
Taking the action that you suggest would put those companies in breach of those contracts and subject them to lawsuits, damages, etc.
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Thor_MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. You imply that Faux pays the providers to carry Faux news.
You sure about that?
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. No, that's not what I'm saying
I"m saying that Cablevision has a binding contractual obligation to carry Fox News. Yes, Cablevision pays Fox, but just as Fox couldn't simply refuse to take Cablevision's money and stop providing the signal, Cablevision can't simply stop carrying the signal and keep money in its pocket. The damages that Fox could claim would include the lost advertising revenues it would incur from having several million fewer eyeballs for its service.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. Murdick would cast Fux News at a loss if he had to
he gets his money back 100 times over in propaganda value.
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Paula Sims Donating Member (327 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
36. Another Dish customer here and heard the news
Here's the letter from Dish

http://www.dishnetwork.com/news/fox.aspx

Interesting how they're keeping Faux News & Faux Business News, but not the sports channels, movie channels, or, in some cases, the local channels (after Nov 1). Funny that it's happening right before the World Series.

I suspect after the World Series, this will somehow work its way out
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. not really that interesting. two different contracts with different expiration dates
Dish was sued by News Corp back in 2007 for $50 million for breach of contract for failing to carry Fox News on the "most widely available" package of service as allegedly required by the contract between the two companies. That suit was settled in early 2009. As part of that settlement agreement Dish agreed to place Fox News on a preferred package and to start carrying Fox Business. While not reported at the time, such an agreement typically would also extend the term of the contract, so I suspect that separate agreement won't be expiring for a couple of more years at earliest.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
38. yes but
national geographic channel is connected to faux news, so they cut that show off too :( i have dish and was (still am) royally pissed to lose my natgeo! :grr:
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
8. Faux wanted to double the rate it charges Cablevision.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Sure does....
that goes for Dish Network too; whom I sent an email to the president of telling him to "keep them off."
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
11. Maybe illuminating about Fox's priorities...
As you say, propaganda yes.
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
14. They're doing it to Dish network also. Fuck 'em, I don't watch their...........
..............crap anyway. If I want to watch propaganda I'll rent an old John Wayne WWII movie.
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AzNick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
17. Dish Network did the same thing... Direct TV tries to steal viewers...
Direct TV is trying to use this flap to their own advantage, but if they don't get more than 1% of Dish's viewers, it's a failure.

Direct TV is already known as being more for sports fans, while Dish is more for movie and international viewers.
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Paula Sims Donating Member (327 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
37. I switched from Direct to Dish
Better value and it's not run by a right wing corporation (although Charie Egan has his own issues)
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. It's beginning to look like Fox is overplaying their hand on
asking for more money...I'm sure there will be complaints with the sports and Glee fans, but both can be viewed elsewhere...on line or TV...
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. Well thankfully there is HULU!!
so fuck you Faux.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Fox is blocking cablevision subscribers access to content on Hulu
Seriously. The gloves are totally off in this fight.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. Cablevision is run by the Dolans . . .
and they do just about as good a job at it as they do running the Knicks . . . this is their third dispute in the past year or so, and it's getting pretty tiring . . . not that I'll miss Fox all that much, mind you, but that Phillies/Giants game tonight could be a pitching classic . . . oh, well, just have to watch the Yanks try to go two up on those Texas fellers . . .
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
24. Ha! Cablevision also carries Fox61, the Connecticut Fox affiliate
I'm watching the game now. 4-3, top 7ty, 2 out, man on first.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. And as I hit "enter", the guy struck out. Mid 7th. n/t
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. That's cuz you live in Connecticut; Enwhycee Cablevision subscribers have NO Fox right now
And which team are you rooting for, SF or Philly?

Cablevision regional lineups here.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Whichever one smashes the Yankees to dust in the World Series.
;-)
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
28. Cablevision needs to play hardball & yank their propaganda channel too
De-Fox-ify the airwaves for good...
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. as nice as that would be, Cablevision isn't going to breach its contract with Fox
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