Saudi Prince Convicted of Murdering Servant

[sabra]

Source: CBS News/AP

U.K. Jury Finds Prince Saud Abdulaziz bin Nasser al Saud Killed Servant in Hotel


(CBS/AP) A Saudi prince was convicted Tuesday of murdering one of his servants in a frenzied attack in a British hotel.

A jury in London's Old Bailey criminal court found Prince Saud Abdulaziz bin Nasser al Saud guilty of murdering Bandar Abdullah Abdulaziz at the Landmark Hotel in London on Feb. 15.

The 34-year-old prince, whose grandfather is a brother of the current Saudi king, faces a possible life prison term in prison when he is sentenced on Wednesday.

The jury deliberated 95 minutes before returning its verdict.

Prosecutor Jonathan Laidlaw said the prince had abused his aide in the past, showing jurors video shot in the Landmark's elevator which appears to show the shaven-headed prince, dressed in white, throwing his 32-year-old servant around and battering him. Photographs of Abdulaziz stored on a mobile phone "plainly proved" that there was a "sexual element" to the abuse, Laidlaw said.

...

Al Saud believed he would be protected from prosecution in the U.K. because of diplomatic immunity, the Telegraph reported.

He faces a likely death sentence if he returns to Saudi Arabia, not because of the murder but because he is gay and homosexuality is a capital crime there.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/19/world/main6971864.shtml?tag=cbsContent;cbsCarousel

[Enrique]

1. omg, what a sentence

"He faces a likely death sentence if he returns to Saudi Arabia, not because of the murder but because he is gay and homosexuality is a capital crime there."

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

2. Maybe he can explained to them that fucked a few dudes...... but not in a gay way. nt

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

9. Oops I guess i should proof read my shit before posting. nt

[dkf]

3. Oh the irony...sentenced for being gay, not for torturing and murdering someone.

Sorry, I don't feel bad for the man. He deserves any penalty there is.

[Bette Noir]

4. He'll live longer in a British prison than a Saudi one.

[yurbud]

5. UK tries Saudi prince for murdering servant, US can't try Saudi prince who financed 9/11:

http://professorsmartass.blogspot.com/2008/03/foia-doc-shows-911commission-lied-about.html

And who threatened Britain with terrorist attacks too:
http://professorsmartass.blogspot.com/2008/02/bandar-bushs-terror-threat-to-britain.html

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thereismore]

6. They busted his ass in spite of diplomatic immunity. Nice. nt

[littlewolf]

8. I don't believe he HAD diplomatic immunity

just being related to someone does not give you immunity ....
if he HAD immunity ... they could not touch him ....

[happyslug]

12. But if he had immunity, the UK could ship him back to Saudi Arabia

At that point he would be tried by a Saudi Court and Executed. He thus waived his diplomatic immunity to avoid execution.

[littlewolf]

16. good way to keep his head ....

[Tyrs WolfDaemon]

10. I'm sure that if he wasn't gay

The Saudis would have demanded immunity for him. Being gay probably insured that he would be handled like a 'normal' person for any major crime he committed in the world.

I wanted to put 'Spoiled brat' in for 'normal' but I don't know anything about him.

[happyslug]

13. No, if this had NOIT hit the papers, the House of Saud would cover it up, but it did hit the Media

Remember Saudi Arabia is ruled by an Extended family, all Children, Grandchildren, Great Grand Children etc. of King Saud I (Who died in 1952). This Clique rules Arabia and while Arabia has a "King" he is more the first of equals then an absolute monarch.

The House of Saud's problem is the Murder was clear and you had film. If the Murderer returned to Saudi Arabia the House of Saud would be in a dilemma. NOT execute the Murderer and be accused of protecting one of the family outside the law, thus giving the bin Laden and Al Queda more recruits do to such "corruption", OR execute the murderer a divide up the House of Saud (The present King Abdulla while a son of King Saud I, is NOT a son of his wife with the most political connections outside the family. Thus he is a weak king. This infighting between the various brothers, Cousins etc is the main factor in anything to do with the House of Saud, the Murderer being gay is a minor problem at best. It is the various Cousins, coming of age, as their fathers die out that is causing problems inside Arabia. Brothers, even half brothers, tend to stay together and keep the in fighting to a minimum. Cousins, on the other hand, have always been the point when such kingdoms fall into chaos. Charlemagne was a strong ruler of Western Europe when he was crown Emperor in 800 AD, his son Leo the Pious also ruled a united Empire. Leo's sons divided the kingdom between themselves and it was their sons, the Great Grandsons of Charlemagne that lead to the wars of the late 800 that saw the Vikings and Magyars moved into Europe extensively.

Such fights have occurred in other ruling families. The Mongols under Genghis Khan, was united, his sons kept it together, but his grandsons, starting with Kublai Khan saw his empire breaking up. Octavian had the same results, as long as he was alive, his family ruled the Roman Empire. Once he died, the first Generation, Tiberius, Claudius (I will ignore Caligula, he only lasted four years and that was the start of the decline of Ruling house founded by Augustus) ruled as a united front. When his grandsons took over, with Nero, you had some stability (Everyone had been killed off by Nero or Caligula) but Nero was overthrown for he no longer had a united family behind him. This pattern repeats when ever you have rule by a Family (as oppose to rule by a Single person, the later is more the norm in Western History, but the later is more the norm in the rest of the world). Mohammad had a similar situation, Mohammad ruled a united group, which upon his death selected one of their own to rule in his place. This lasted the first four Caliphs. The Fourth Caliph, Ali, Mohammad's son in law, saw the first real Civil War and the final division between the followers of Ali and the followers of non-blood relatives of Mohammad. Again as the grand children took over from the children of the founder of the Dynasty.

Saudi Arabia has been in a similar situation. King Abdulla is probably the last king of his generation. The last king whose main competitor for the throne were his own brothers. The next generation will be the Grandsons of Saud I, and at that point the knives will come out. Some signs of this has already been seen, but at a low level. No matter which cousin in selected to rule, other cousins will fell rejected and unlike their Fathers, will NOT wait for the next selection of who is to be king. This man is now out of the contest for King, his support is no longer valid in such a fight. This his conviction probably spared his life, maybe not now, but whenever the upcoming House of Saud Civil War starts. He be safe in Jail. His Cousins, on the other hand, would be fit targets of each other whenever the last of the present King's Generation dies out. We have seen signs of this since the 1990s, but the Second generation still have enough respect to prevent any outward appearance of the In Fighting, but it is getting more and more obvious as times go on.

As to this Murderer, my guess, is the family (i.e. the House of Saud) determined the best course of action would be for him to be tried in the UK, if convicted he spends time in an British Jail. By the time he is released this would have been forgotten by most people. If he was acquitted, the House of Saud and say they did NOT acquit him but the British did and also ends the problem. Thus a British trial solved a lot of problems for the House of Saud no matter what the verdict.

[XemaSab]

14. Thanks for the background

It seems like the super-whammy here isn't just the issue of cousins, but also the issue of having offspring from many wives, so that primogeniture isn't necessarily how it's going down.

[happyslug]

17. Some of the infighting is interesting and shows up in weird places

Here is a thread involving the death of a princess of the family:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3976944#3978494

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2842097#2842128

King Fahd's death in 2005:
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1584457&mesg_id=1590159

Here is a discussion on DU from 2004 on the House of Saud and that it is unstable:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=611956#613738

A report that Bandar of the House of Saud was involved in an attempted Coup in Arabia in 2009:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6212624

A thread on the House of Saud:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1584457&mesg_id=1590765

2004 Paper on the House of Saud:
http://www.hudson.org/files/publications/Henderson%20--%20Saudi%20Royal%20Family.pdf#search=\%27Sudairis.\%27

More on King Saud I, 1879-1953:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Saud_of_Saudi_Arabia

His sons by his wife Princess Hassa was the mother of seven brothers known as the Al Sudairy Clan (Arabic: عائلةالسديري‎), also often referred to as "Al Fahd"):

King Fahd bin Abdul Aziz Al-Saud (born 1921), the fifth monarch of Saudi Arabia from June 13, 1982 - August 1, 2005
H R H Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz (born 1926), Deputy Prime Minister, Defense Minister (since 1962), and Crown Prince (since August 1, 2005)
H R H Prince Abd al-Rahman bin Abdul Aziz (born 1931), Vice Minister of Defense
H R H Prince Nayef bin Abdulaziz (born 1934), Interior Minister since 1975
H R H Prince Turki bin Abdulaziz (born 1934)
H R H Prince Salman Bin Abdul Aziz (born 1936), Governor of Riyadh
H R H Prince Ahmed bin Abdul Aziz (born 1940), Vice Minister of Interior

Notice their position within the Government, this is considered the most important set of sons of King Saud I.

King Abdullah is son of Saud I, by anther of Saud's wives, Fahda bint Asi Al Shuraim. He has no full brothers, but lead the Saudi Arabia National Guard for Decades. The National Guard is now under his son's Mutaib bin Abdullah Command.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahda_bint_Asi_al-Shuraim

The family did work together to get rid of the first Son of King Saud I to rule Arabia. King Saud II ruled from 1953 till 1962, but spent money recklessly, he "retired" and went into exile in 1962, he died in 1969, his 53 sons are marginal members of the House of Saud, the sons of the other sons of King Saud I have much more power within the House of Saud then King Saud II's sons.

More details on the House of Saud, its history and HOW it picks its kings:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musa%27id_bin_Abdul_Aziz#Sons_of_Abdul_Aziz_ibn_Sa.27ud

For more on King Saud II:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saud_of_Saudi_Arabia

King Faisal I was the King that replaced King Saud II. Unlike King Saud II, King Faisal knew how to balance a check book. He was killed by a nephew, the son of a brother older then King Faisal but a son of Saud I that never held a high position in the Government.

The "Sudairi Seven" this included the late King Fahd, these are seven sons of Saud I and the same mother:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudairi_Seven

Sultan, one of the Sudairi Seven is undergoing Colon Cancer treatment. He is the father of Bandar, long time ambassador to the US from Arabia. Could be a sign of new in fighting for Sultan is the "Crown Prince" to King Abdullah, and thus the heir apparent, if Sultan dies who becomes the Heir Apparent?

[Tyrs WolfDaemon]

15. Thanks for the info

I was only looking at it from a very simplistic overview and assuming that an openly (or openly rumored) gay member of the royal family would bring enough shame that they would be forced to execute him. I hadn't even thought about the various levels of family and their interplay.

Lately I haven't done enough in depth thinking to go much beyond the simple view, so I must thank those that help me out on it.:)

[rpannier]

18. He had no immunity - Read the story

"When that was found to be a pack of lies, he tried to claim diplomatic immunity," but did not qualify for it, John McFarlane of London's Metropolitan Police told journalists outside the court Tuesday.

Link:
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/10/20/saudi.arabia.prince.sentencing/index.html?iref=NS1

[AlbertCat]

7. death sentence if he returns to Saudi Arabia,

He can come here and live with the Bushes... or the Cheneys. They'll accept him with open arms!