Two U.S. air marshals flee Brazil after being charged with assault

[Poll_Blind]

Source: CNN

Washington (CNN) -- Two U.S. air marshals who arrested the wife of a Brazilian judge on a flight to Rio de Janeiro -- and were themselves arrested and had their passports confiscated by Brazilian authorities -- fled the country using alternate travel documents rather than face what they believed to be trumped-up charges, sources said.

--snip--

The incident occurred on October 1 on Continental Flight 128 from Houston, Texas, to Rio de Janeiro. During the flight, a female passenger who appeared to be intoxicated tried to serve herself drinks by going to the plane's galley, one source said. The plane's crew asked air marshals to intervene, and two marshals approached the woman, who began struggling with them. Two sources said the woman bit one of the air marshals, and she was handcuffed and placed under arrest.

At the Rio airport, the air marshals went to turn over the woman to local authorities but were themselves brought before a federal judge and charged with misdemeanor counts of assault, sources said. Brazilian authorities took the air marshals' passports, so they could not leave the country and set a court hearing for the following week, sources said. "They (Brazilian officials) did not want them to leave. They were not free to go," one U.S. law enforcement source said.

But the air marshals used alternate travel documents and quietly departed the country on a commercial flight that same day without the knowledge of the Brazilian court officials who had sought their detention.



Read more: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/10/21/us.brazil.air.marshals/index.html?hpt=T1

---

:popcorn:

Whole story at the link. Worth reading. Very interesting little story.

When they say the marshals used "alternate travel documents" to flee the country, is that in the same sense that Jenna Bush used to buy beer with "alternate travel documents"?

:shrug:

PB

[Sanity Claws]

1. "alternate travel documents?"

so do US Air Marshals carry a back up set of forged papers in case they need to make a quick escape?

Also, an unruly passenger has nothing to do with terrorism. I thought air marshals were on board to prevent terrorist attacks. Why were they involved in a situation involving a drunk?

[AzNick]

2. Fake passports provided by the US consulate

Simple as that.

[Pavulon]

4. Yep, why play games in the third world.?(nt)

[Arctic Dave]

16. If Brazil is a third world then that must mean we have slid to second world status.

[Pavulon]

48. We gave Elian back.. They did not..

the drunk was juiced in so they were going to get a royal reaming. So they bailed, I would in their shoes.

If she choked on her own puke the matter would have been simpler. Fucking HATE people who get sloppy on planes. Flying 12 hours sucks enough without them.

[Blue_Tires]

30. i didn't even know the term "third world" was still in use...

Even by the 'old' definition, you do realize Brasil hasn't been that for a long time, right??

[Pavulon]

46. Any country where you can pay money and keep an American kid

and you arent the dad is third world. They broke the treaty and there is no reason to believe they would not do the same for some rich drunk juiced in married to someone important jerk.

I HATE fuckers who drink to much on an airplane.

[Downwinder]

9. Simpler than that.

[thunder rising]

5. "an unruly passenger has nothing to do with terrorism" (needed a headline of it's own)

[npk]

11. Yeah no one unruly on a plain

Can be the least bit dangerous. We should just allow people to do whatever they want to on plains. He'll just let them walk into the cockpit if they want to I mean it's not like anything could possibly go wrong from somebody entering the cockpit... Oh wait. Nevermind.


:eyes:

[Javaman]

32. The rain in Spain...nt

[The Stranger]

44. . . . falls mainly on the plane?

[Javaman]

50. dupe. nt

[Javaman]

51. Only in bad weather. ;) nt

[The Stranger]

55. [or] . . . falls manely on the plane.

[Javaman]

64. :(

you missed the main reason why I posted in the first place.

Dang.

Check his original spelling and how it applies.

[Gin]

61. hahahahahah :)

[Prometheus Bound]

34. Yikes! How did we get from pouring oneself a drink to entering the cockpit!

[thunder rising]

71. It seems before air marshals the crew knew how to handle a drunk. It's easier to call in the guns.

I hate the abuse of power by these low level air crew.

[architect359]

33. The crew asked them to?

From the article: "The incident occurred on October 1 on Continental Flight 128 from Houston, Texas, to Rio de Janeiro. During the flight, a female passenger who appeared to be intoxicated tried to serve herself drinks by going to the plane's galley, one source said. The plane's crew asked air marshals to intervene, and two marshals approached the woman, who began struggling with them."

Seemed appropriate.

[Pavulon]

3. she was juiced in like that kidnapping bastard..

who kept the American kid for a few years. We have an embassy there, they can take up the issue there if they wish.

[Diclotican]

6. Poll_Blind

Poll_Blind

They wil posible never se the face of a trial, as americans tend to not let their "own" face trial in forreign country, even if they was in the wrong when it came to criminal codes abroad... US is one of few country who deny that government officials, or armed forces can be put into arrest by forregin nationals, even if their crimes is known, and proven withouth doubt.. When it came ot ICC in Hague, the then GWBs administration treatend to go to war against the Nederlands, if any soliders was put in arrest, and put for a trial in ICC. They even treated to bomb the prison complex where prisoners who would be put before ICC to free soldiers, or officials who was arrested and was in the prosess of a trial...


I doubt they wil face a trial, and they would posible never be able to travel to Latin America again, but maybe be used on domistic travel in the US.. And if Brazil is to try to get them for a trial in Brazil, my feeling is that the government of USA, by the forreign office would deny that, and even risk a politicla riffle between Brazil and US for protecting Marshalls...

The fact that they also was using "alternate travel documents" to flee the country speaks volume for the posibility for a criminal case against them... It is a tell-tale on itself that they was posible using forget dokuments, to leave the country... And today, you are not geting forget documents withouth paying a lot of money (I belive, as travel documents are really adwanced today) And i have also the feeling that might some parts of the US ambassady in Brazil have a little finger into this case..

Intersting ideed

Diclotican

[Pavulon]

7. Yep, why put our people infront of corrupt trash

we issued new documents and they left. we dont put American citizens in front of kangaroo courts.

The US will never join the ICC under any administration, ever.

[Diclotican]

14. Pavulon

Pavulon

Yea, as US are not puting everyone else on a Kangoroo court for lesser crimes than this Marshalls was claimed to have been doing... You know that little court you have down at Gitmo, where a couple of houndred "forreigners" would be put to trial, by a military court, and where the verdict can not even be put into the sivil justice system, where the demands for evidence is more stronger and stricter than in a military court.... So the thing about a Kangooro Kort is just silly, and stupid, as US have shown many times over, that they are really good at making Kangoroo korts, as long as it is not americans who are in the Kangooro Cort that is..

Not to say, the many forreigners, who are on long term basis in US prison system, many who posible are inoccent on their crimes, but where "everyone" is in agreement that they indeed had been Guilty and therefore should keep quit and just sit the time out.. Not to say the few germans that US government killed, by leatal injection a couple of years ago, even when most of Europe was dead against it, and Germany was even trying to get the germans back home, to end their life in a german prison cell.... It was against all international conventions of the time, and US got a real nasty ripe for it all... But of course US do as they want so I guess a few dead germans was worth the price...

When it came to what you say is a "kangoroo" cort I bet ICC is far better eqipt than most american cort to prove innocense or guilt becouse ICC is not an national cort, it have an international body of jugdes, who are from many country's And if USA had been a member of ICC, then I bet you could get your own american jugdes on the benck, so justise for every american who was put before ICC had a fair chance when it came to prove a man's guilt or not... ICC are not an Kangroo kort by the way, in fact it is a cort that US made posible, withouth US push for an international criminal cort, who could prosess criminals on a international stage, ICC would never had been into making... But as ICC was indeed put into action - then was US there to say no, they would not be a part of ICC. And in fact tried to bribe, and to treathen nations to not be a signatour to the ICC... Even Norway got a clear "message" from USA, where they was in doubt that our 60 year of friendship, and alliance with US, would survive a signatour to ICC.. Norway desided to be a signatour to ICC, and US blinked first on that thing...

I doubt that US would be signatour to ICC, anytime soon, thats true.. But then they are also loosing a lot of political "clouth" when it came to its interest in the rest of the world.. ICC is in exist, and sooner or later an american wil also be put to trial by ICC, for criminal behavour.... Then what, Should US chance a war with their own allied, to get an american out of prison?.. DO anyone in US really belive that the Nederland's police would not trying their best to stop it..And if nessesary also put in Special forces to defent the prison complex, or at least do their best to be sure that the americans who are inside the complex, have a hell of a time to get out, and out of the Nederlands... If US really wil try a stunt like that, most of europe would turn their back to US all togheter.. And maybe US have to put a lot of dead US marines on the next flight ut of Ramstein AFB in Germany.... The Nederland, and EU would posible make a lot of diplomatic problems out of this, and if you think US/Europe chape was bad when JR was in power, it would be like visit the colder parts of the cold war after something like that....

You know, if US was to attac Nederland, becouse of the cort who are in Haag, it would be accepted as a act of war, a war I really doubt US want, as it would tear down any posibilites for US to have influence in Europe for the next 50 or so year..

And I doubt that the government in Brazil would let this goe by just like this, it wil come back and bite US in the back when they are not beliving it wil, next time a US marshall are playing with the wife of a prominent jugde, they might be arrested, and put into a prison cell, to the time they can be arraigned in a cort room.. Next time the jugde would not be that gentle as they was when they was this time around...

Diclotican

[Pavulon]

39. I am sure they can work on extradition..For those charges

This ICC is a joke, no one is attacking anyone in Europe over the ICC. She was juiced in, so she got special treatment, like the guy who kept an American kid down there who was of no blood relation to him. All because he was special and rich.

Corruption is helpful only when it is working in your favor.

[Diclotican]

70. Pavulon

Pavulon

I guess an extradition prosess, or maybe some sort of arraigment between Brazil and US could be fixed on a political level easly, as neither Brazil and US want, or have the ressourses to have a larg "fight" on their hands for this.. Hopefully this wil be worked out in a fee monts time, where things is cooling down, and maybe the jugde is desiding it was not worth the risk, even if it was for protecting the honnor of his wife... The wife was drunk as a skunk I understand, and was not acting to her own interst in this case. Many womans (no offense ladys,just my experience with some of your sex) when they got drunk act different from what they would o, when sober.. And this woman was maybe a gentle soul, who when drunk is acting different from her natural "self".

The ICC is no joke, but as long as the bigger player in the world, have no respect, or are not willing to workt with ICC, then ICC would have far less power to convict war crimes than, if the big players had suported and worked with ICC. If US (in special) is so afraid of been put to trail in ICC, why then do not change the behavour on your political leaders, and your military commanders?.. It is far more easy to change the way you act, than to risk be prosecuted in ICC... Sooner or later some high up in a current og former Administration, would be arrested, and maybe handed over to ICC for criminal prosecution... Then when that happend, the former Administration of GWB clearly sayd that they would risk a war with the Nederlands, over the arrest and incarnation of an american on Dutch soil... So yes we have to take what US say seriosely, if we do not, we wil experience the same stupidity that the former Republican Administration was given us for 8 verry long years...

Off course, innfluence allways buy you better treatment than else. That is a fact of life as long as we know it. But to claim as some have said, that US law trumf local law, and that LEOs have the right to use whatever metodes they want on a US registered airplane... For some reason, if the government of Brazil want to make a case out of this, I would say that the law enforcement officers in this case could end up in the wrong end of the law... And when they was fleeing Brazil, they was at least shown that they was not in the right, as a fleeing for the most part is a give away for most LEOs that you have someting to hide. If I am not wrong, try to evade a police officer, is enough to you end up in a cell for a short or longer time. In Norway, as in US, and also as in Brazil.. Of course it is more comfortable been in a cell in Norway and US, but this would not have been a issue, if the LEOs had been told to stay put, an law officer from US was coming down to Brazil to protect the right of the Air Marshalls, and they had a time in a cort. Where both sides could given their statements, and tell what happend.. Police is the same all over the world, and as long as you are telling the TRUTH, you would be given a fair chance.. I have been involved with the police once, in a car crash, and I was telling the truth all the way (it was my fault, young and stupid as I was) And mostly becouse I told the truth all the way, why and how it did as it did, I was given a fine, and also keept my driver license, and had no prison time.. I could get a hefty fine, loose my driving lisence for 4 months, and get 30 days behind bars.. Honesty and Truth trumf local habbits all time!. The Air Marshalls should be given the benefit of the doubt. But also just told the truth. If they was in the wrong, then they would face charges. If not they would leave the cort, as free men and posible with the corts apollogy... Brazil are maybe not a 1 world counry yet - but they work hard to get over what they once was. And many corrupt officers and government officals are now in prisons, fired or pentioners now, becouse they want to clean the house of old habbits...

Diclotican

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

20. I would be more apt to call a DHS employee corrupt trash than a Brazillian judge

[Downwinder]

21. Especially the ones I've seen trying to pass themselves off as U.S. Marshals.

[melm00se]

27. really?

http://brazilglobal.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/congressional-corruption-in-brazil/

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/90852/6894772.html

http://pila2008.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/review-of-brazils-judiciary/

http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,FREEHOU,,BRA,4562d94e2,473c55b253,0.html

Corruption is a way of life down there.

[L.Torsalo]

24. It is customary

that persons under indictment and in custody are required to face arraignment, and not skip bail. AmeriKKKa thinks itself above the law. I tell you now, the day will come when the shoe shall be on the other foot and the Indispensable Rogue Nation will face the consequences for such illegality. Air Marshalls? Sounds more like Air Fugitives. FUUSA.

[Pavulon]

40. When that day comes you will be a decomposed corpse..

so sit back and enjoy the show for now. Not like the Russians, British, or French would have not done the same thing anyway.

[L.Torsalo]

47. I doubt that.

Nice fantasy world you live in. Remember, the USSR was dissolved in just a few short years. Nobody will mourn the loss of the fascist empire you live in. In fact, you are already so five minutes ago.

[Pavulon]

49. The USSR like E. Germany fell because of US policy.

be careful what you wish for. You think your Chinese overlords would not cuff you to a chain link fence and blow you brains out, think again.

Every person I meet who espouses a fuck the us sentiment never really thinks about who would fill the void. Anarchy?

Go visit darfur to see Chinese policy at work. They are busy supplying Norinco AKs and 7.62 x 39 to kill women and kids, they only want the oil.

You have no clue what an empire looks like and no idea how fucked up most places outside western Europe and the US really are.

Five minute from now I am going to get in my happy german made car, and drive to the massive grocery store, buy all kinds of tasty beer and food. Pay with cash, eat a tasty cheese steak, cut my grass with a nice honda mower and enjoy a great life.

I will then take a call regarding a multimillion shop floor install for a customer in Arizona (yep we still make stuff in the US, just not plastic shit like china), have a cold beer and eat a fantastic rib eye, asparagus with hollandaise, and some red potatoes, with my wife who will talk about all the gross things she saw in the ER today.

Peace.

[thunder rising]

72. All this without a clue as to why the marshals were put under arrest. I can tell you many of them

are wanna be heroes. They had no business interfering in this business.

[Pavulon]

74. The flight crew had them on drunk duty.

her husband is a judge or no one would give a flat fuck about one more drunk arrested on a flight. Is she choked on her own vomit imagine the outrage.

I hate people who get a shit hammered on a plane and subject everyone to their bullshit.

[Haole Girl]

8. I have a feeling this is going to make travel to and from Brazil even more difficult...

for everyone.

Weird story.

[Pavulon]

10. No, they want our money.(nt)

[Haole Girl]

12. After 9/11 the U.S. implemented fingerprinting and taking a photo of ....

..each and every citizen of Brazil entering U.S. airports.

Brazil retaliated, in turn.

It will be interesting to see what happens now.

[Pavulon]

13. I fly there and deal with multi billion dollar companies, if you fly you deal with them too

my travel is unimpeded. No one ever fingerprinted me. I pay "soft fees" as needed, and employ others to pay hard fees as US law prevents that by us citizens.

[jberryhill]

17. The visa requirement was the retaliation

Yes, but, you didn't used to need a visa to go to Brazil. Brazil started requiring one when we started fingerprinting visitors from Brazil.

If, like me, you don't have time to run down to the consulate and you use a private expediting service instead, then you pay the bucks and lose an entire passport page (and the US upped the fee for new pages, which is also a lost time irritant getting that done).

[Pavulon]

38. Yep. That is arranged from corp.

Generally a third party handles that and any messiness that accompanies it.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Diclotican]

15. Haole Girl

Haole Girl

I rember that, and I also rembember when my foster mother was in US last time around. She and 40 others was traveling as a group, to travel to New Orleans, after Chatarina to experience the jazz on Burbon Street... After many hour on a flight, they was coming to the US costoms, and everyone of them detained for 4 hours.. The Reason?. Becouse TSA and the Custom where they landed, had not the right equipment to see the new eletronic form of passport they had demanded the rest of the world to have, to travel to US.. After 4 hour, in a smal, hot room, withouth even a water dispencer, they was allowed to come into US, and not even a apology was made from the TSA as they had the paper in ordung, but the TSA and border Custums was not able to read the new passport...

As my fosther mother said it.. It was the last time she would ever visit US, as she would not be subjicated to anything near this again, to be treated with that type of arrogance and contempt, even with all the paper in the right order... And she also told some stories from where I was young, and we was wisiting a country on the other side of the Wall, Bulgaria, where the custom guards had weapons and so on, but at least,they was professionals, who treated anyone with some respect.. She are not a commie, she is a old social democrat I belive, who have been working for all her life, and now is a grey headed woman in the late 60s. But she is still a lady who are not afraid of saying what she means. But when she say that the border guards in Bulgaria, was more profesionals than the US border guards, then you know something is REALLY wrong over there.... (The Border guards in Bulgaria was in most cases similar to the russian KGB guard as Bulgaria had more or less blue printed KGB and was in many cases KGBs right hand in cases where Russia could not be shown as the real man behind the plot..)

Diclotican

[L.Torsalo]

25. No, they don't.

King of crass, you are "pavilion".

[Pavulon]

41. I personally set up over 80 million dollars worth

of US equipment purchased in the US in Brazil for an aerospace company. Brazil does not make what we sell and therefore needs to purchase it from the US (or Japan or Germany).

[TexasObserver]

18. US state dept or other officials probably got them out.

The US govt likely created some new versions of passports. Don't see how they could have gotten appropriate documents to leave otherwise. The US govt had to be active in the entire process, and I would expect them to do so with federal officers in the conduct of their duties being held on what are likely bullshit charges.

Get them back and deal with the angered Brazilians later. It's likely someone in Brazil was misusing their power, and this could come back on them in ways they didn't anticipate.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

22. These guys had no jurisdiction the moment they stepped off the plane

When they stepped off the US flagged plane they became two private citizens detaining a woman against her will, presumably the individual they detained made a criminal complaint and the local police are obligated to act upon that. The situation is made worse for them because since they fled what was a relatively trivial matter is a pretty serious one. Brazil will refer the matter to Interpol and the pair will be arrested the moment they present themselves at just about any border crossing in the world. As a flight risk they will be imprisoned until such time as Brazil either waives extradition proceedings or they are extradited.

Whoever thought this was a good idea is an imbecile because he has pretty much ended their careers and an Interpol notice will appear in most criminal background checks. And while it would be unlikely in such a trivial matter Brazil does try defendants in absentia.

[TexasObserver]

29. Brazil will be rational about this.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

59. Rational to themselves, or rational to an american waving a cock on a stick?

[TexasObserver]

62. That's not how I would have characterized you, but ...

But if you're ok calling yourself that, I'm ok with your calling yourself that.

Seriously, get a grip. And lose the personal attacks.

[Ginto]

37. Who's jurisdiction is it while she's on the plane trying to pour her own vodka tonics?

?

[Pavulon]

43. Why would they stand infront of a corrupt judge for restraining a drunk asshole.

seriously, she is just some rich juiced in married to someone important drunk. They did their job. Mark my words interpol will not be involved any anything from brazil will be handled in a quiet manner.

your scenario will never happen, I believe italy is still waiting for some us citizens to show up there for stuffing a jihadi in the trunk of a car and flying him out of the country.

these guys will be just as inconvenienced by their actions.

being a rich drunk with connections is the only reason she got any play at all.

[hughee99]

54. Is international extradition for misdemeanors common? n/t

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

58. It isn't a misdemeanor anymore,

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

19. Have fun doing your jobs with an Interpol Red Notice to your names

Arrest warrant and flight risk, hope you like covering the flight between Atlanta and Pittsburgh.

[L.Torsalo]

28. Thank you

for offering some sense. I believe your analysis is accurate and the "marshalls" sure are stooooooooooooopid. Go Interpol.

[Steerpike]

23. ha ha!

It's real easy to detain and fuck with some poor unconnected citizen...these sky marshalls obviously screwed with the wrong person.

[snooper2]

35. I guess everyone here is fine with drunktards walking around on planes

serving themselves whatever they want..

WOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO free for all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



This is the real funny part..

"Numerous sources said the issue is still unresolved. According to court documents in Brazil, after the air marshals missed a scheduled court appointment on October 6, the court contacted the U.S. Embassy in an attempt to get the air marshals' addresses." :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Ginto]

36. Shades of Sean Goldman

I would not want to have legal trouble in Brazil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Goldman

I like the idea of a self-serve bar on airplanes though.

[Peace Patriot]

42. Does everybody entirely trust this CNN account?

I've begun to always take note of whether corpo-fascist news articles use quotation marks and named sources or at least sources who are described in some way, especially in articles that deal with U.S./Latin American disputes. I have too often seen leftist leaders in Latin America subjected to hit pieces in which, for instance, the Associated Pukes, et al, use phrases like "His critics say..." (i.e., of Chavez, "His critics say that he is increasingly authoritarian.") with no quotation marks, no names, no attribution. Their source could be the CIA, for all we know. No one has to answer for it. (Who ARE these "critics"? WHAT evidence do they base this allegation on?)

Anyway, right away I noticed that the account of what happened on the plane was NOT in quotes. It is presented as THE TRUTH of the matter. Here it is:

---

The incident occurred on October 1 on Continental Flight 128 from Houston, Texas, to Rio de Janeiro. During the flight, a female passenger who appeared to be intoxicated tried to serve herself drinks by going to the plane's galley, one source said. The plane's crew asked air marshals to intervene, and two marshals approached the woman, who began struggling with them. --CNN

---

Maybe she wasn't all that intoxicated. Maybe she wasn't all that disruptive. Maybe the "plane's crew" overreacted in asking AIR MARSHALS to deal with her. And maybe no such thing occurred--the "plane's crew" did NOT ask them to deal with her. And, whatever the case, as to that, maybe, then, the Air Marshals roughed her up unnecessarily. How can we know? The paragraph above cites no source at all, and they don't even SAY that there IS a source, as they do in the following paragraph: "Two sources said the woman bit one of the air marshals, and she was handcuffed and placed under arrest." This is a little better as to sourcing, but what if those "two sources" were the Air Marshals? Or flight attendants who made the mistake of calling on Air Marshals to intervene with a merely annoying but not dangerous passenger? Or, well...whoever. "Two sources said" is not much better than "His critics say...". (A more reliable way to put it would be, "Two sources, who were present but not involved in the incident, and who asked to remain anonymous, said...". At least, then, we have some clue as to the source and some at least minimal way to evaluate the source's objectivity. Better yet, "two airline officials on board, who were not involved...said...," or "a spokesman for the Air Marshals, who was not on board...said...". You see what I mean? How do we evaluate this charge, that she bit an Air Marshall? Maybe it is a self-interested charge. Maybe he was seriously hurting her and the "two sources" did not admit this.)

I'm NOT saying that the account of the incident on the plane is inaccurate. I don't know. Nor can anyone else know--or even guess--from this account. SOMETHING happened. We don't know what. And the apparent fact that the Air Marshals absconded, probably with US embassy or other US official help, certainly does not look good. If they were merely attending to plane safety at the crew's request, why would they flee? They have THE CREW's backing! If the story is as told, in this account, it would likely have been a very short legal hearing. No judge--even a bribed judge--is likely to cause an international incident over a drunken passenger, and if, by chance, they got railroaded, and somehow ended up convicted of something and in jail (a very, VERY unlikely scenario), THEN the State Department would certainly get them released and the Brazilian government would be falling all over itself to help the State Department and the Air Marshals, because neither would they want an international incident over such a matter. Their fleeing does not look good, as to this account of the event, and was probably a very stupid move.

And this is not the first--nor will it be the last--time that corpo-fascist 'news' organizations swallow security forces' accounts of events and present them as the truth, without attribution--if what we are looking at here is a biased, one-sided account of what occurred, presented as if it were the objective truth.

[Pavulon]

45. Because she is a juiced in married to someone important drunk..

not a poor drunk. So rather than play by the same rules that the guy trying to get his kid back from a corrupt system where the father was involved in their CJ system they left.

Smart move.

If she was missing your account may be reasonable, having flown many long haul flights, the drunk passenger is more plausible. I HATE loud sloppy drunk fuckers on an airplane. I wish they had zip tied her ass and left her in a pile of her own puke.

[Peace Patriot]

52. Again, you are making assumptions based on an article that uses dubious

(and known to be deceitful) writing methods, such as writing an account of an event, that the reporter did NOT witness, as if it is the truth, without ANY sources disclosed, even anonymous ones, and without even saying that it is based on a source or sources.

Only the biting allegation was said to have sources (two), both anonymous and neither described (passengers? crew? the Air Marshals' lawyers?). We don't know.

It is not fair to carry on about this women, as you do, without more information. Your "many long haul flights" with drunk passengers is not information. It is prejudice. And I have no idea what her not being "missing" has to do with it and no idea what you are talking about in your first sentence.

You say, "If she was missing your account may be reasonable." I am not giving an account. I am saying that presenting an account of this incident, that is obviously based on a source or sources, and not SAYING that it is based on sources--let alone describing or quoting them--is very bad journalism, and calls the account into suspicion. Whose account is this? And what is the woman's side of it? WAS she just using her power as a judge's wife, or did she have good reason to call the cops on the Air Marshals? And there are other questions like that, about items in this CNN account that are not sourced or very poorly sourced. I specifically stated that I am NOT saying that this account is inaccurate. I don't know. And this article is NOT illuminating and seems to be going out of its way to endorse one side of the story before the full story--or all sides of the story--are known.

[Pavulon]

56. she is not in Gbay. She got hammered and restrained

normally what happens to stupid drunks. It appears she is wealthy and connected.

Unless she was gone what other angle can there be? She was either restrained or not, they were either going to get railroaded or not.

Not to many permutations here.

[tonekat]

53. Will you please stop repeating yourself?

"juiced in married" "juiced in married" "juiced in married"

Jeez, give it a break. I wouldn't have stuck around either, given the chance to leave.

[Peace Patriot]

57. And would you please read my reply to Pavulon, who said that I was giving an "account"

of the incident? I was not. I was calling CNN's account into question. I felt the need to briefly repeat what my problems are with the article, because Pavulon did not seem to have read them. Pavulon furthermore threw in something that I did not understand (about the woman being "missing"). And I still don't understand it.

You may be right. And Pavulon may be right. I simply don't know--after reading this article. That is all that I am saying.

You may have used your...ahem...extra passports to abscond after being apprehended by airport authorities in Brazil, but that is a highly questionable action by U.S. Air Marshals who are supposedly representatives of "the law" and are certainly seen as representatives of the USA. That is scofflaw behavior. And it may be "smart" in the short term, but long term it probably wasn't. Are our Air Marshals supposed to be guided by short-term personal interests or long term lawfulness and reliability for the purpose of commercial air travel safety from terrorist threats? This makes them look silly. And it makes me suspicious about their possible misconduct. (Maybe they were the ones who were drunk, hm?)

AGAIN, we don't know. And the article is not helpful.

[Ginto]

60. We know a few things to be fact. We know she was on the plane and we know she is a judge's wife.

We also know what relatives of legal professionals can do in Brazil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Goldman

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

65. Tourette's is a hell of a disease. -nt

[Pavulon]

66. king of the one liner, paragraph with content, not so much(nt)

[Prometheus Bound]

63. I guess the air marshals and airline crew fucked up.

This clearly was not a potential terrorism issue, so I don't see what authority the marshals had to interfere, except as regular passengers when asked by cabin crew. But regular passengers don't have the right to arrest and handcuff people. Authoritarian types might be pleased to see them intervene despite the illegality, but it's nice to see one country is willing to question the legality of their actions.

Key Duties and Responsibilities:
The Office of Law Enforcement/federal Air Marshal Service (OLE/FAMS) promotes confidence in our Nation's civil transportation systems through the effective risk-based strategic deployment of Federal Air Marshals and other OLE/FAMS law enforcement resources in both air and land based mission related assignments. The organization's primary focus is to detect, deter, and defeat terrorist or other criminal hostile acts targeting U.S. air carriers, airports, passengers, crew, and when necessary, other transportation modes within the Nation's general transportation systems.
http://www.tsa.gov/join/benefits/soar/tsa/fam.shtm

[Pavulon]

67. If you get frat boy drunk on a BA flight from London to NYC

they, even though they are British nationals and you may be important and married to someone special in NYC, can restrain you for being a disruptive drunk. You CAN NOT run around retard drunk on a flight and then claim victim status when you are restrained.

Ever been stuck on a flight with an asshole drunk? If you had you would understand.

[Prometheus Bound]

68. I understand the flight crew can for the safety of passengers.

But it's hard to see what this incident had to do with terrorism, and therefore why the air marshals were asked to get involved or why they accepted. This certainly would have blown their cover.

[Pavulon]

69. Booze cart on 767 757 and 777 in first class in by cabin door..

Prior to 9/11 they would let you make your own drinks on some carriers. Provided you were not drunk and loud. Not anymore.

Airplanes are strange because if one person does something bizarre it makes other people do strange stuff too.

People going bonkers on airplanes cause big problems. I have been on god knows how many flights and the only event that stands out was a domestic argument. What would be fine in a restaurant caused a major incident. Wife told the flight crew to fuck off mind their business, and was arrested when the plane landed.

Flying already sucks, assholes just make it worse.

[Prometheus Bound]

73. I don't doubt what you say, but I fly up to 100,000 miles a year.

...and I've never seen any of these horror stories, so it can't be that common.

And I love flying, by the way.

[Pavulon]

75. Business class, great. Evening flights domestic

suck. Only had one event over years of flying and it was a connector to newark to catch an international leg. Marital argument got out of hand.

Rest is just drunk scardey cat fliers.

[DiverDave]

76. Man, you sound

like a legend in your own mind.

We get it already.
1. you hate drunks on planes
2. You have seen EVERYTHING concerning drunk people on planes.
And 3. You HATE drunks on planes...sheesh

[Pavulon]

77. Did I say that? feel free to link that post.. I said

drunks on planes suck. The only drunks that made anything really interesting on over a million miles in three years or so were drunk white trash on a connector out of charlotte.

Not quite something to write home about. The rest were just drunk which is great at a bar, not so much 24 inches from your face.

But yeah, being stuck next to a drunk who will not shut the fuck up is painful, unlike here there is no ignore button.

And yea I am legendary, let me tell you a story....