Crystal Cathedral founder asks for help

[Newsjock]

Source: Orange County Register

Speaking to Crystal Cathedral congregants for the first time Sunday after the megachurch filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, founder Robert H. Schuller sent out an emotional plea for help.

... Schuller's voice choked up with emotion as he told worshippers that his church has faced several challenges over the last 60 years.

"I need more help from you," he said. "If you are a tither, become a double-tither. If you are not a tither, become a tither. This ministry has earned your trust. This ministry has earned your help."

... The church, faced with mounting debt, has been selling off its assets and has also canceled its iconic "Glory of Christmas" and "Glory of Easter" pageants this year. The Cathedral has also been torn by internal strife since the founding pastor's son, Robert A. Schuller, quit as senior pastor after ideological differences with his father.

Read more: http://www.ocregister.com/news/church-272623-schuller-father.html

[Taverner]

1. What can I say? The Evangelizilla has imploded.

People want their cathedrals with just 20% more hate...

[Kolesar]

50. "Megachurch? Sounds like somebody Godzilla would fight" -- Jon Stewart

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Newsjock]

4. Thanks for visiting DU, Quentin Tarantino

:) :)

[Rabrrrrrr]

6. lol - never been called Quentin Tarantino before, but I'll take it is a compliment!

:thumbsup:

:yourock:

[Hawkeye-X]

7. +infinity

Preach on, brothah!

[UpInArms]

11. +another - what you so eloquently stated

:yourock:

[Iowa]

35. So a post that several DUers give high praise to has been taken down??

I would have liked to see it.

[Rabrrrrrr]

61. I said "Let it go bankrupt, and let that asshole sell his mansions."

And then "He's so far from Christian it's sick.".

Then some more disparaging things about how the cathedral has little to do with Christianity and that it's been a scam since the beginning.

No idea why anyone felt the need to delete the post that I can remember. I'm sure in the paragraph I wrote I got pretty nasty against the Crystal Cathedral, but don't remember saying anything deletable. But, maybe I did. I don't know.

[Iowa]

72. Thank you. And I agree with every word you said.

[FarPoint]

73. Lets not forget

that they are also free of paying taxes as well..............."Crystal Crime Family"

[Hepburn]

3. ...

...:puke:

[Hawkeye-X]

5. Hmm. If you do a job for me, then I'll give you a dollah...

That's how it works, pally-o.

You need to file every single complaint against every megachurches that have voted Rethuglican because it behooves them to line in their pockets, then I just might give ya a dollar.

That would help, would it, Robbie?

[spartan61]

8. The only thing Schuller worships is the

almighty dollar. I have absolutely no sympathy for him and his "Crystal Cathedral."

[Joe Bacon]

37. Looks like that Invisible Hand from Ayn Rand failed you, Bob!

Schuller is like every other crooked pulpit pimp. All of these pimps turned Jesus into Je$u$, and mutated Christianity into ¢hri$tianity. Oh, these pulpit pimps talk the Jesus talk, but listen very carefully to all of them and you discover their God is Ayn Rand, their Jesus is John Galt, their Holy Ghost is the Invisible Hand of the Free Market and their real Bible is Atlas Shrugged.

It gets real personal with me when it comes to this pimp. My aunt got brainwashed by him and his fellow pimps Paul and Jan Crouch. When my grandmother died, my aunt gave away grandma's money to Schuller and the Crouches to spread their go$pel. In doing so, she cheated my Dad out of what was rightfully his. Oh, I still remember when she told Dad that it was more important to give the money to Je$u$. Dad was livid with her. And I'm sure that $a¢rifi¢ial gift my idiot aunt made to those pimps wound paying for Schuller's Rolls Royce and put a years worth of chateaubriand and lobster on ol Cement Head Paul and Racoon Face Jan's dinner table!

[Honeycombe8]

43. I wonder if you know anything about Robert Schuller. Or if you are

assuming certain things, like assuming he's an evangelist, or like Oral Roberts, or political? He's none of those things.

Not sayin' I know lots about him. But he's been around for many years. He's a pastor of a real church...not an evangelical "tv" church. He's an author...wrote some books about possibility thinking.

Asked about his political views and whether he'd be getting involved in the 2000 presidential election, etc., he explained that unlike Jerry Falwell and others, he (schuller) isn't a leader of a movement or involved in politics...he explained that he's a pastor of a church, and that's where his duties lie. His job is to tend to his church members and community. He doesn't get involved in politics or go national for causes and the like.

Now, he's a very wealthy man who built an ostentatious HUGE church. So I'm sure he likes money very much (don't we all?). But he's not evil.

[No Elephants]

47. Running up debt for " an ostentatious HUGE church" and broadcast fees and asking others to sacrifice

in this economy to bail out your egotistical ass might fit some definitions of evil, as might not finding a way to get along with your son. See also, Reply ##s 9 and 38.

But, who are you or I to judge who is evil and who isn't--even if we actually knew Schuller?

[Dogtown]

52. Oh, my.

O8)

[Joe Bacon]

57. I know that fraud very well.

He's always made the point that his "television ministry" pushing "possibility thinking" is his main focus. And it's always been about him, even when Jesus moved him to have all those plastic surgeries to make him more attractive to the widows he fleeced. And I can remember when Hubert Humphrey died, this liar preached at his funeral turning it into an informercial for his "ministry". I have friends who still remember when Bobbyboy was just starting at a drive-in theater in Orange County, and that crook's main purpose was tailoring the "go$pel" to his affluent audience, to sugar coat the gospel to make it attractive to those who practice the narcissistic materialism espoused by Ayn Rand.

From the very start, for Schuller, it's all about him and his bloated ego. His original church was designed by Richard Neutra. He justified the outrageous fee Neutra charged because he wanted to make his original church "the place where people would want to go without question". Well after that was built and Bobbyboy just got bored with it, like every other bloated egomaniac in the Je$u$ hustle, he wanted an even bigger and more audacious palace to prance around in. So he fleeced the flock and the fools who watched his "ministry" into financing his own private Versailles.

[spartan61]

74. And where in my post did I call him evil?

I said he worships the almighty dollar. If he is so interested in tending to his church members and community, why does he have to do it in such an ostentatious way? He could do his job in a large unassuming building and have more money to help those who are in need. And just how did he get so wealthy/ Aren't ministers usually quite poor?

[Tx4obama]

9. Churches should be spending their money on the homeless & hungry, not on cathedrals.

Saving the old (100+ year old) cathedrals that have historic value is one thing...
but spending all the money that they do on these new mega-churches they build now a days is disgusting when so many people in the world are in need.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

13. hurches should be spending their money on the homeless & hungry, not on cathedrals.

Never was the truth so aptly typed. +1,000,000

[DesertFlower]

10. did god need a crystal cathedral?

[Jamastiene]

32. No, but that pastor thought he did.

That's why he's wanting money now. He spent all the last money they sent him building a fucking palace instead of a church. I know those types. They blow their dough on expensive unnecessary shit then ask for more money because they can't pay their bills. Same ol' story. Same ol' song and dance.

[No Elephants]

49. Remarkably easy to mistake your own voice for God's, especially if you believe God anointed you.

[Joe Bacon]

38. Bobbyboy had an EDIFICE COMPLEX!

The ¢ry$tal ¢athedral wasn't a monument to God, it was a monument to $¢huler'$ bloated ego.

[No Elephants]

48. Nailed it.

[hatrack]

12. Don't worry, Rev - Gaw-duh will provide!

Or at least, that's what I've heard you say from time to time over the years - provided, of course, that a "love offering" made its way from your viewers to your Accounts Receivable Dept., that is.

So, tell you what - PM me and I'll give you contact information so that you can cast your bread upon the waters by sending me a check for $1,000. Needless to say, you'll be amply repaid, uh, at sometime in the future.

[yellowcanine]

70. I always write it "GAWD-Duh" but close enough.

Of course some even manage to make three syllables out of it, as in GAW - ED - Duh will provide.

[ejpoeta]

14. why don't you tell that to the folks living in their cars who can't feed their kids.

tell them how rough you've got it. it's a damned building. from what i understand, god would want you to take care of the poor, not build yourselves crystal cathedrals. one would think after 60 years you would have had the damned mortgage paid off.

[vixengrl]

15. I'm not as familiar with Schuller's minitry as Robertson's, Parsley's. etc--

but isn't he one of the "God will make you prosperous" mode like Oral Roberts was?

Tithe, double tithe--I think the parishioners would do more by directly contributing to the actual poor and hungry than trying to bail out a church based in ostentation. What would they be doing? Keeping the chandeliers lit?

I have a pretty negative view of magechurches and televangelism. I don't go in for religion (atheist, here), but I can appreciate that local houses of worship can build communities. These large corporation-churches strike me as having less, I dunno....soul?

[Honeycombe8]

42. I think it's more of a regular church...not a Robertson or Oral Roberts thing.

I think it's like a Baptist or something church. He's not an evangelical, or political. He describes himself as a pastor. I saw him on Larry King once, and he's been around for years. I think he's the one who wrote "Move Ahead with Possibility Thinking." The church is a real church, with an address and all. Not a "TV church." But the church is huge, and members can either go in for the sermon, or listen outside in their cars.

Interesting he's had a falling out with his son. The dad seems like such a nice guy...fairly unassuming for a wealthy, famous minister/author.

I pass no judgment on his church's financial problems. No doubt his members have hit hard times, which would be reflected in the coffers of all churches. Asking his members for $$$? That's what all churches do.

[jmowreader]

16. The sick part is, he'll get the help

And let us turn now in the Gospel to Matthew 25.31, and follow along...

But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory.

Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one by one, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Then the King will tell those on his right hand, "Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me drink. I was a stranger and you took me in.

I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick and you visited me. I was in prison and you came to me."

Then the righteous will answer him, saying, "Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink?

When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you?

When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?

The King will answer them, "Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me."

Then he will say also to those on the left hand, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels;

for I was hungry and you didn't give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink;

I was a stranger, and you didn't take me in; naked, and you didn't clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn't visit me."

Then they will answer, saying, "Lord, we spent all the money and time we were going to use to do all those things on building a huge church of glass, and buying a satellite to transmit the sermons preached in it to all the world."

Then the King will say, "Oh! Why didn't you say so?" And he whacked the church with debts no honest man could pay, so it fell into receivership. Then he made a rock so big he himself couldn't lift it, and used a bulldozer to push it into the sides of the church. And then he converted the pipes in the organ into sewer lines for the poor.

And finally, as the King grabbed Schuller by the scruff of the neck and dragged him to the edge of the precipice, he began to scream, "Didn't you read James 2.20, you stupid shit? Faith without works is dead! I preached in the fucking street! You're headed to either the fourth, sixth or eighth circle of Hell and it's all your fault."

[Joe Bacon]

40. Oh, but that's not Schuller's Gospel

Here is Bobbyboy's Gospel according to his beloved Ayn Rand:


I was hungry and you told me to get off my "lazy ass" and work. You didn't care that I was elderly, disabled or orphaned.

I was thirsty and you said the "invisible hand" of the free market would stimulate an entrepreneur involved in your "possibility thinking" bullshit to invest in a beverage company that would relieve my thirst.

I was a stranger and you despised me because of the color of my skin or I was gay or lesbian.

I was naked and you had me arrested for lewdness.

I was ill and you told me that I should have bought a better health insurance policy, even though nobody would sell me a policy because of my pre-existing condition

I was in prison and you cheered because it was my third strike.

ROBERT SCHULLER, IT SUCKS TO BE YOU!

[sakabatou]

17. I thought God could provide everything...

:shrug:

[Safetykitten]

18. 'If you ara a double tither, then become a triple tither, and if you are a" ....

Amazing the gall to ask for money to pay his bills.

Sell your buildings and then ask for money to feed people.

Grotesque.

[ProudDad]

19. he who lives in a glass house... (n/t)

[TeaBagsAreForCups]

20. "Earned" ? ....

...oh, "Reverend," please do explain - and while you're at it, tell us more about that son of yours who gives you a run for the money in the arena of vile scum.

[mitchtv]

21. I've got a brick

to contribute

[dballance]

22. l Have a big F-YOU to contribute.

Go pound sand you ass.

[47of74]

23. I've call dibs on the organ

[Mz Pip]

24. All he's ever done

is ask for money. What else is new?

Who does this ministry actually help?

[Joe Bacon]

63. Here's who the "ministry" actually helps!

http://www.ocregister.com/news/hour-272561-schuller-southard.html

Robert A Schuller, $196,478, Hour of Power
Fred W. Southard, $156,710, Hour of Power
James W. Coleman,$156,710, Hour of Power
James B. Penner, $156,710, Hour of Power
Louise Dunn, $154,731, Church
Charles L. Smith, $135,519, Hour of Power
John A. Townsend, $125,027, Hour of Power
Carol Milner, $108,415, Hour of Power
Robert H. Schuller, $108,415, Hour of Power
Donna Schuller, $80,308, Hour of Power
Gretchen J. Penner, $69,792, Hour of Power
Sheila Coleman, $69,792, Church
Source: Fred Southard declaration, Oct. 19, 2010, bankruptcy Exhibit

And remember folks, everyone in the Je$u$ bu$ine$$ is tax exempt!

[Hubert Flottz]

64. Easy Come...Easy Go.

The TV preachers say dollar about ten times to every one time they mention Gawd.

They spend money like water because they've never done an honest day's hard labor to ever have earned an "Almighty" "Dollar"

They're "Entitled" to be free of work or taxes.

They're entitled to fancy robes and their Gawd Given right to Judge their fellow travelers in life.

They honk their own horns more than they ever honk Gawd's.

Maybe in the "Afterlife" they'll be entitled to their own antlers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLwtqwnI6ko

[Bluestar]

25. This is shameful. There are plenty of people here in the OC who are

struggling and this SOB wants them to DOUBLE what they give? What has this miserable excuse for a church done for the community in this recession? The energy waste alone in that all-glass cathedral is a sin unto itself. It is so interesting to watch the immoral religious pigs scream as the energy turns back on them.

[JI7]

26. why are they in debt ?

[canetoad]

27. I don't know the full story

But I believe part of the debt is to local traders for goods and services and several millions of dollars is owing to media/television companies for broadcasting.

Edit to add list of creditors:

These are the top 20 or so. There are around 500 in total.

PNCEF LLC. equipment finance company: $1.9 million
Promotional Media Inc.: $397,555
Infocision Management Corp.: $359,788
Media Services Agency: $352,370
Lloyd Daniel Corp.: $318,500
FGS-CA Inc.: $252,992
KWGN: $206,954
World Marketing Inc.: $200,386
Thomas Nelson Publisher: $200,219
Dayster Television: $172,997
Wheelchair Foundation: $163,551
Lutzker & Lutzker, LLP: $147,225
KMSP: $115,175
Classis of California - Canyon Lake: $111,675
Gipson Hoffman & Pancione: $110,622
WKCF-TV: $105,400
Scripps Howard Broad: $87,125
A-1 Building Maintenance, Inc: $86,456
KMYQ: $80,155
WKRC-TV: $74,970
Advantage Mailing Inc: $71,305
Kristina Oliver, livestock supplier: $56,000
Gray Television Inc.: $55,522
Sharon Crabtree, managed props for pageants: $20,000
Carin Galletta, public relations: $16,000
Bruce Johnson, drycleaner: $11,500
Juliet Noriega, wardrobe supervisor: $10,000

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/television-271375-inc-carin.html

[JI7]

33. why pay for so much of that if they can't afford it

[Historic NY]

28. Believe in the power of prayer....God threw the money changers out of the temple

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

29. Fundraiser: Break ten windows for ten dollars!

[sce56]

30. Religous BS. If people would only open their eyes to the swindle of these holy rollers!

Artist: Eagles
Title: Frail Grasp On The Big Picture
---------------------





Well, ain't it a shame
That our short little memories
Never seem to learn
The message of history
We keep makin' the same mistakes
Over and over and over and over again
And then we wonder why
We're in the shape we're in

Good ol' boys down at the bar
Peanuts and politics
They think they know it all
They don't know much of nothing
Even if one of them was to read the newspaper
Cover-to-cover
That ain't what's going on
Journalism's dead and gone

Frail grasp on the big picture
Light fading and the fog is getting thicker
It's a frail grasp on the big picture
Dark ages

You my love-drunk friend
All that red wine and candlelight
Soulful conversations
That go on until the dawn
How many times can you tell your story?
How many hangovers can you endure
Just to get some snogging done?
You're living in a hollow dream
You don't have the slightest notion
What long-term love is all about
All your romantic liasons
Don't deal with eternal questions like
Who left the cap off the freaking toothpaste?
Whose turn to take the garbage out?

Frail grasp on the big picture
You keep on rubbin' that, you're gonna get a blister
It's a frail grasp on the big picture
I've seen it all before

And we pray to our Lord
Who we know is American
He reigns from on high
He speaks to us through middlemen
And he shepherds his flock
We sing out and we praise His name
He supports us in war
He presides over football games
And the right will prevail
All our troubles shall be resolved
We have faith in the Lord
Unless there's money or sex involved

Frail grasp on the big picture
Nobody's calling them for roughing up the kicker
It's a frail grasp on the big picture
Heaven help us

Frail grasp on the big picture
All waiting for that miracle elixir
Frail grasp on the big picture
I don't wonder anymore

Frail grasp on the big picture
Somebody says, "You brought her here
so go ahead and kiss her
Frail grasp on the big picture

Frail grasp on the big picture
Light fading and the fog is getting thicker
It's a frail grasp on the big picture

Frail grasp on the big picture
Frail grasp on the big picture

[Jamastiene]

31. I'm disappointed.

Usually, they claim God is going to strike them dead if they don't receive x amount of dollars in x amount of days. They are losing their touch. There is just no high drama any more. No fun.

I will give him a C+ for the tithing slogan though. That had to have taken a tad bit of effort.

[Xenotime]

67. Ha!

[Dappleganger]

34. A legacy to their priorities...

wish an earthquake would swallow up that place!

[jaksavage]

36. If god wanted it

it would have succeeded.
But it failed so tear it down, or turn it into homeless housing.

[cliffordu]

39. he should give the folks what they really want and then change the name

to the Chrystal Meth Cathedral.

[Joe Bacon]

41. Frank Zappa said it best!

Some take the bible
For what it's worth
When it says that the meek
Shall inherit the Earth
Well, I heard that some sheik
Has bought New Jersey last week
'N you suckers ain't gettin' nothin'

Is Hare Rama really wrong
If you wander around
With a napkin on
With a bell on a stick
An' your hair is all gone...
(The geek shall inherit nothin')

You say yer life's a bum deal
'N yer up against the wall...
Well, people, you ain't even got no
Deal at all
'Cause what they do
In Washington
They just takes care
of NUMBER ONE
An' NUMBER ONE ain't YOU
You ain't even NUMBER TWO

Those Jesus Freaks
Well, they're friendly but
The shit they believe
Has got their minds all shut
An' they don't even care
When the church takes a cut
Ain't it bleak when you got so much nothin'
(So whaddya do)
Eat that pork
Eat that ham
Laugh till ya choke
On Billy Graham
Moses, Aaron 'n Abraham...
They're all a waste of time
'N it's yer ass that's on the line
(IT'S YER ASS THAT'S ON THE LINE)

Do what you wanna
Do what you will
Just don't mess up
Your neighbor's thrill
'N when you pay the bill
Kindly leave a little tip
And help the next poor sucker
On his one way trip. . .
SOME TAKE THE BIBLE. . .
(Aw gimme a half a dozen for the hotel room!)

[Hubert Flottz]

54. "IT'S YER ASS THAT'S ON THE LINE"

And you ain't even number two.

FZ saw the world for exactly what it is. I miss his hard hitting truthfulness delivered along with some fine musical compositions to make the bad and the insane around us all, easier to digest.

Every time I see Sarah on TV, I'm hearing 'Brief Case Boogie' in my head! TY FZ!

[TrogL]

44. I'll take the pipe organ off his hands for $1

I need a new one and need the rest of the money to ship it.

[No Elephants]

45. Odd he speaks of Biblical money management. when he's done the opposite of it.

Per the Bible, you do not even start to build a building until after you figure out you can afford it.

Joe Bacon's post about an edifice complex and Schuller's ego was spot on.

[PassingFair]

62. Puhlease.

They've NEVER behaved that way....

[No Elephants]

46. Odd he speaks of Biblical money management. when he's done the opposite of it.

Per the Bible, you do not even start to build a building until after you figure out you can afford it.

Joe Bacon's post about an edifice complex and Schuller's ego was spot on.

[Kolesar]

51. I'll send a bottle of Windex (TM) ... eom

[Hubert Flottz]

53. People who live in Crystal Cathedrals shouldn't throw brimstones

And support war mongers.

[dotymed]

55. These people(?)

should be recognized for what they are.
How can anyone watch these greedy, smug bastards, wearing their gold,diamonds and make-up and not realize they are scam artists? It speaks volumes.

[LawnLover]

56. Dear Reverend Schuller

Boo-hoo.

I suggest you ask God for the money.

[bongbong]

58. Carlin's view

George Carlin was clearly in sympathy with these guys, since he described the strange situation that God has with money. God is omnipotent, can form universes, trillions of stars, humans, etc - but just can't seem to ever have enough money!

[bowens43]

59. the is nothing more disgusting

then a thumper begging for money.......

pathetic

[seafoamrider]

60. It's always been about money...

Snake oil, energizing tonics and salvation.

[L.Torsalo]

65. He should ask his

god to save him. Isn't that what saviors are for? A small miracle , perhaps? Times like this prove that many believers don't believe the shit they say they believe. Hey, "Rev.", time to get a real job. WalMart greeter?

[yellowcanine]

66. "This ministry has earned your trust." Not sure blowing 36 million on a glass church qualifies as

"earning your trust".... but hey...

[shanti]

68. in other words...

give me your GD money!! :eyes: sorry bob, but even the crystal cathedral needs to take a haircut!

[yellowcanine]

69. Kind of ironic that one of the chief advocates of the Prosperity Gospel is bankrupt.

If God is so good at providing, what went wrong, Dr. Schuller?

[Liberal_in_LA]

71. why the neg recs? n/t