Abortion Docs Decry "Wanted" Posters as Bait

[RamboLiberal]

Source: CBS News

They look like wanted posters from the Wild West. But they're not photos of criminals, CBS News correspondent Michelle Miller reports -- they depict doctors in North Carolina who perform abortions. They asked us to block their faces.

"It doesn't say 'Wanted Dead or Alive' but the implications are clearly there," said a doctor, who, fearing for his life, asked to remain anonymous.

"I am always looking over my shoulder," the doctor said. "I know they know my car. They know my face. They've been to my house. They've put these posters in my neighborhood. So yeah, I look over my shoulder."

Those responsible for the fliers, Operation Save America, repeatedly protest abortions at women's health clinics in the Charlotte area. Claiming the doctors "harm women and kill babies," they list specific addresses and urge people to contact doctors there. One poster even cites a home address.

"These 'Wanted' posters are a call for my murder," a doctor said.



Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/26/eveningnews/main6994245.shtml?tag=cbsContent;cbsCarousel

---

These militant anti-abortionists are domestic terrorists IMHO!

[msongs]

1. freedom of religion and RKBA trumps fear of being murdered nt

[proteus_lives]

12. What does this have to do with RKBA?

I ask but I know you won't answer.

[MadMaddie]

2. Watch Rachel Maddow's "The Assasination of Dr. George Tiller"!

They ginned up the nuts and many people have been killed because of it. These religious related organizations are allowed to literally get away with assasination as the step back when a murder occurs. It's conspiracy and frankly I tired of them getting away with it. We are seeing the same thing with what's going on today.

[RKP5637]

4. Exactly, it's all the same crap, the same tactics. I'm tired of seeing them

get away with it too. It's domestic terrorism IMO. I put this Phelps group in the same category.

[RamboLiberal]

5. I watched that last night - damn gutsy show by MSNBC & Rachel

Most "news" shows & even some liberal talkers are fearful of even touching this subject. They've been cowed by these terrorists.

Doing a show like this could put Rachel in these nutcases crosshairs I fear.

[defendandprotect]

26. Agree -- but missed a lot of it ... did she show connections to white militia groups???

[MadMaddie]

30. There was an association with the guy that killed Dr. Killer

interestingly enough the milita group didn't believe in assasinating drs....yet.

[defendandprotect]

31. Did you notice your "O'Reilly" slip .....

I'm not questioning it because I've actually had that slip into my

own thinking once you hear it!!

Yes -- I did see that part -- and recalled it when you mentioned it.

Women's organizations -- NOW/Fund for the Feminist Majority -- seem to have

had more concrete info on connections. Doubt that they actually investigated

it themselves, though I don't know -- presume more like info "came to them".... ?


Thanks for the info -- :)

[Angry Dragon]

3. I agree they are terrorists

[RKP5637]

6. I guess we don't have harassment laws anymore in the US. This and similar are

so so so over the top. They get a free license in this country.

[lapsstir]

17. We do have harassment laws

This doesn't qualify under those laws. The issue is whether it constitutes true threats. Considering that this case does not have the "strike through lines' that were dispositive in the determination of true threats in the Nuremberg Files case, it is very unlikely the courts would construe this as a true threats, if legal precedent is followed

[RKP5637]

22. Thanks for info.! I've always wondered when the line is crossed into harassment. n/t

[BolivarianHero]

7. We have a simple name for this in Canada...

We call it harassment, and it's against the law. This isn't a legitimate expression of religion freedom; it's an attempt to slander and harass professionals who are performing complex medical procedures in a dangerous environment with the aim of protecting vulnerable women.

[RKP5637]

8. Canadians are so lucky in so many ways. One would think there would be similar

in the US, but apparently not.

[defendandprotect]

14. Americans were given the gift of Separation of Church & State ....

but we have not protected it -

Who ever said that religion was good for mental health?

[lapsstir]

18. One knows

that the speech protections in the US are greater than those in Canada. That's inarguable. There are thus tradeoffs. The government in Canada has significantly greater power to restrict speech than the government in the USA.

Neither sections 318 nor 319 of the Canadian Criminal Code would pass constitutional muster in the USA.

[defendandprotect]

24. We are now subsidizing "faith-based" religious organizations...which are mainly RCC orgs...!!

Lucky for the Pope that W came thru with that money just as they were facing those

pesky pedophile law suits!

And Obama has INCREASED our taxpayer subsidies for these organizations!

There is NO issue on which there is no dividing line where an asset becomes a liability --

there's an exception to every rule. And certainly corporate-personhood and limitless

contributions to elected officials as "free speech" is one of those occasions!


Violence is NOT "free speech."


And, I very much admire Canada's court standing on obscenity -- *




*
EDITED TO ADD ...

The Canadian Supreme Court held ina unanimous decision that obscenity is

to be judged "by the harm it does to women and not by what offends our values."

"Materials portraying women as a class of objects for sexual exploittion and

abuse have a negative impact on the individual's sense of self-worth and

acceptance," read the Court's landmark opinion -- the first time a court has

established the precedent that a threat to the equality and safety of women "is a

substantial concern which justifies restricting the otherwise full exercise of the

freedom of expression."


PORN = ORGANIZED PROPAGANDA AGAINST FEMALES

[iverglas]

28. what's your point?

Neither sections 318 nor 319 of the Canadian Criminal Code would pass constitutional muster in the USA.

Both s. 318 nor s. 319 of the Code have fuck all to do with this discussion.

And the formal distinctions between Canada and the U.S. in terms of "free speech" are in fact minuscule. Not even counting the fact that Canada wins hands down when it comes to informal distinctions ... like those "free speech zones" that we didn't have ...

In fact, the poster who asserted that this conduct is "harassment" and "illegal" in Canada is somewhat off base. There is no Criminal Code provision against "harassment". Whether these activities might rise to the level of criminal stalking, which is also outlawed in U.S. states, is an open question.


edit -- oops -- I was an hour to late to get a reply. ;)

[defendandprotect]

32. Canadians seem to have retained a level of sanity which US has lost ... to corruption

of government and government officials -- i.e., fascism.

[AlbertCat]

9. the Charlotte area.

Full of fundie religious groups. Remember the Bakers?

Clinics need to be located in the center of hospitals, where they are buried deep in the building, hard to get to, and in a place where there are too many doctors and nurses to tell exactly where each one goes unless you have access. Any blocking or harassing in a big hospital would not be tolerated.

[tortoise1956]

10. Sounds like harassment to me...

Posting pictures of doctors, along with names and addresses, is reprehensible. I was raised in the Episcopal church, and I can't remember ever being taught that using terror tactics is part of Christian teachings. And frankly, that is what this is. At a minimum, this is a cut and dried case of harassment that is legally actionable.

Maybe it's time to have some hackers (er, i mean talented power users) provide internet information on the leaders of Operation Save America - you know, Face book accounts, email addresses, etc. (I do NOT mean anything drastic like hacking into their bank accounts, that would be sinking to their level). I wonder what it would be like to have several thousand emails a day flooding your account?

[hamsterjill]

21. Definitely harassment!

Terror tactics were never a part of my own Christian teachings, either. What has happened to Love Thy Neighbor? (Rhetorical question, of course, because I already know the answer).

The people doing this are brain-washed idiots, and they are dangerous!

[DesertDiamond]

11. Isn't this competely illegal?? Why aren't these terrorists in jail??

[lapsstir]

16. Unless it can be shown

to meet the "true threats" standard, it is not illegal. Based on what is revealed in this article, it appears legal. The best analogy would be to the Neal Horsley "Nuremberg Files" website. In that case, it was ultimately the "strike through lines" on the doctor's faces that were the deciding factor in the decision that the site did constitute "true threats". It doesn't seem this case meets that standard.

There have also been similar websites that list police officers' information by those accusing them of using excessive force, etc. Despite attempts by the officers to get injunctions, these have generally been upheld as well as not constituting true threats.

[defendandprotect]

13. Wasn't it Supremes who turned down RICO laws for dealing with these "anti-abortion" murderers????

This is a well-organized attack on women's rights -- it's domestic terrorism

and has long been so!!

[lapsstir]

15. You are referring to the Nuremberg Files case

which originated in the 9th circuit. The fact pattern was similar in that case, I agree.

[defendandprotect]

19. No -- feminist organization brought a suit to charge the "pro-life" movement with RICO ACT ....

it's organized -- it's violent -- and they should have been able to use

the RICO laws to dismantle it!

Think the RICO laws were successfully used against KKK -- ???

[lapsstir]

20. ok

The RICO act was also attempted in the Nuremberg files case. How can you charge the "pro-life movement" with anything? There is no monolithic or centrally controlled pro-life movement. I assume you mean they tried to charge some specific pro-life group? The KKK is an organization. It can be sued and/or charged. The pro-life "movement" cannot. That's like saying you are going to charge the animal rights movement with a crime. That's nonsensical. You could charge ELF, otoh.

[defendandprotect]

23. You don't think Randall Terry and Operation Rescue were organized and well-funded?

Charging them under the RICO laws would have called for a full investigation of

the interconnections between religious groups and white militia groups.

Women's groups -- I think it was Ellie Smeal's Fund for the Feminist Majority which

brought the suit -- have long known this.

In fact, re the "pro-life" groups I've recently read that they used to go to

Methadone clinics to hire people to protest outside of abortion clinics -- paying them!

In fact, I would consider charging RCC and Mormon Church with RICO laws ....

Both of those churches financed a secret campaign against the ERA movement -- funding it

with tax-free dollars.

Mormon Church was heavily involved in funding Prop 8 anti-gay marriage --

This is obstruction of the public will --


Keep in mind that Catholic women have just as many abortions as any other women --

whether in America or anywhere else. So it's not Catholic women nor families in general

protesting abortion! Rather, they support it!

In fact, Catholics supported single-payer, government run health care by 73% -- and

83% when Latinos/Latinas were included!! AND, they wanted reproductive health care included --

condoms, etal. They even supported abortion based on simple CHOICE by 51%.

So the effort by the US Catholic Bishops to influence Speaker Nancy Pelosi away from government

run health care -- and Stupak's efforts to prevent poor women from gaining access to abortion

funding -- are simply efforts by this male-supremacist church to influence government in their

own interests.

[Scout]

25. NOW sued them.....

http://www.nowfoundation.org/issues/reproductive/scheidler-timeline.html

http://www.nowfoundation.org/issues/reproductive/scheidler.html

http://www.now.org/press/02-06/02-28.html
Supreme Court Ends Protection Against Abortion Clinic Violence
Statement of NOW President Kim Gandy

[defendandprotect]

27. Thank you -- though I know that Fund for Feminist Majority also campaigned ....

for the RICO laws to be applied --

Here ya go -- from your link --

Amicus brief filed by the Feminist Majority Foundation in Support of NOW (11/05)

link to the details is an "Oops! not working" --

However, they did educate the public on what was going on -- and raised funds to

stop this violence. Don't know if they did active investigations or whether the

information "came to them" .... ???

But we've known for DECADES that the "pro-life murderers" and the white racist militia

groups were connected. Certainly the white racist militias are also anti-feminist --

and generally anti-human rights .... except for white males!

[iverglas]

29. google "nuremburg files"

This sort of thing has been going on in the U.S. for years, and has been extensively addressed by the courts.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Horsley

The "Nuremberg Files"

The Nuremberg Files is a website that displays the names and locations of various doctors who perform abortions throughout the United States. They came under fire as controversial because they provided photos, addresses, and other personal data of abortion providers. They also updated the listings of those doctors who had been injured or murdered by "pro-life" individuals, indicating their approval for the elimination of the provider.

While the original site was shut down in 2002, it has reappeared more than once on other ISPs. Horsley has been forced to change his Internet service provider numerous times due to the site's content, and his website has been hacked on several occasions.

It has been stated that information from the Nuremberg Files site was used by James Charles Kopp to track down and kill Buffalo doctor Barnett Slepian in 1998. Kopp fled the country (becoming a fugitive in Canada) but allegedly maintained contact with Horsley while on the run. Kopp was later arrested in France and extradited to New York, where he is serving a 25-year prison sentence.

After Slepian's murder, Planned Parenthood's president Gloria Feldt denounced Horsley's website at a press conference. The publicity generated hundreds of thousands of hits (Horsley claims 400,000). Horsley was named as a co-conspirator in a successful civil suit, Planned Parenthood v. American Coalition of Life Activists, filed by Planned Parenthood over the information compiled by him and "Unwanted Posters" of doctors, which was judged by the court to constitute a threat of violence, even without an explicit call to violence. The U.S. Supreme court has twice refused to hear the case, upholding the ruling, but asking that the punitive damages be reconsidered. Punitive damages were reduced from $108 million to $4.7 million. The ruling also provides for $11 million in treble damages and $526,000 in compensatory damages.

As part of the judgment, Horsley was to take down the "Nuremberg Files" section of his website. The verdict was later overturned on appeal, and the files returned. The case was reheard en banc, and the court determined that the files constituted constitutionally unprotected "true threats". Karin Spaink ran a mirror of the site in the Netherlands for about a week after the district court decision. She ultimately decided to remove the mirror.

To see the current state of the page of the website in question, try this link to google's cached version:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2lnC7Fy88n4J:www.christiangallery.com/atrocity/aborts.html+http://www.christiangallery.com/atrocity/aborts.html&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

or google the url:

http://www.christiangallery.com/atrocity/aborts.html

[defendandprotect]

33. Obviously, these posters are very active hate speech and intended to encourage violence....

against doctors who do abortions --

Just as we don't permit free speech to put anyone's life in jeopardy in a

theater, we should not either permit anyone to encourage violence against

another human being.

[No Elephants]

34. If God is omnipotent AND wants these folk dead, why isn't God striking them dead?

Evangelicals often say, "We serve a mighty God." Apparently, some of them don't really believe that, though.