Wolfowitz briefs lawmakers on possible US responses to Fallujah killings

[Barrett808]

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz briefed members of Congress behind closed doors on possible US responses to the killings this week of four US contractors in the restive Iraqi city of Fallujah.

"I think that history will prove that the folks that have taken actions against Americans have underestimated our capabilities to, number one, identify those people; and, number two, to eliminate them," Representative Duncan Hunter, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.

Hunter said the close-door discussions covered the attacks in Fallujah, "potential American reactions," the military situation and the handover of sovereignty to Iraqis on June 30.

Wolfowitz emphasized after the meeting that the handover of sovereignty to Iraqis would have no impact on the US military presence in the country.

"There's not going to be any difference in our military posture on July 1st from what it is on June 30th, except that we will be there then at the invitation of a sovereign Iraqi government," he said.,

Wolfowitz added that he was "quite sure" the new Iraqi government "will want us to stay there until killers like the ones who perpetrated these atrocities in Fallujah are brought under control."

(more)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040402/pl_afp/iraq_us_wolfowitz&cid=1521&ncid=1480

[Minstrel Boy]

1. Phoenix Program redux?

"I think that history will prove that the folks that have taken actions against Americans have underestimated our capabilities to, number one, identify those people; and, number two, to eliminate them"


"Created by the CIA in Saigon in 1967, Phoenix was a program aimed at 'neutralizing'—through assassination, kidnapping, and systematic torture—the civilian infrastructure that supported the Viet Cong insurgency in South Vietnam. It was a terrifying "final solution" that violated the Geneva Conventions and traditional American ideas of human morality."
http://www.thememoryhole.org/phoenix/

[BJ]

7. Wolfowitz has not learned the lessons of history

This educated idiot is about to escalate the war, in the name of and with the tacit agreement of the Pentagon's puppet regime. :mad:

[DoYouEverWonder]

40. Where Ollie North

and Pat Robertson both got their start.

[davekriss]

44. Vietnam?

Or do you mean Central America as in this old (1986) Sara Diamond article about our sheep-clothed Dominionist Pat Robertson: http://www.holysmoke.org/wb/wb0239.htm

CANDIDATE ROBERTSON'S CENTRAL AMERICA POLICY
by Sara Diamond, copyright 1986

TV preacher Pat Robertson is the only prospective
presidential candidate who not only has a Central America policy
but also provides Bibles, beans, and maybe even bullets to U.S.
backed forces in the region.

Until recently, Robertson was seen by most as just another
slick televangelist. But his soft-spoken style is misleading; his
actions speaker louder than his words.

Robertson's controversial activities include: support for
the slaughter of thousands of Indians by a Guatemalan dictator;
public praise for the reputed leader of Salvadoran death squads;
collaboration with murky U.S. mercenary groups; and the provision
of chaplains and funds to the contra army seeking to topple the
government of Nicaragua.

<snip>

CBN's constant and sophisticated anti-Nicaraguan media
barrage is a far cry from the pouting tirades of Bible-thumpers
Jerry Falwell and Jimmy Swaggart. Whether viewed as a politician
or a preacher, Robertson's direct involvement with armed factions
in Central America puts him in a class by himself.

[Hobarticus]

2. Anyone else read "Patriots"?

It's an oral history of the Vietnam War, as told by both side sof the conflict, from the very beginning ot the end.

Most excellent, and most chilling. We're hard-charging down the same road.

[htuttle]

4. Two more that aren't as entertaining, but are directly applicable...

...are 'The Bear Went Over the Mountain', and 'The Other Side of the Mountain'.

The first is full of accounts of Soviet attempts at counter-insurgency in Afghanistan. The second is full of accounts of how the Afghan Mujahadeen defeated the Soviet tactics. I've seen excerpts from both on the web.

I doubt Dumbsfeld has read either one...

[Jacobin]

3. Silly Phuck

Last time he was over there, he nearly got his clock cleaned, and the interview after that showed him pissing his pants.

Yeah Wolfowitz. Why don't you go back over there and show them "what for"

[Bride of Cthulhu]

36. And make it a oneway ticket

:evilgrin:

[Beetwasher]

5. Yeah, They'll Kill Them and Then Display Their Mutilated Bodies

just like they did with SH's sons and then claim what they did is different because, well, IT JUST IS!

[realdeal22k]

37. I missed the part where we burned and dragged their bodies

Where can I find images of the US doing that?

[RowWellandLive]

45. You can't

and never will. But you and I already know that of course.

BTW welcome to DU. You seem like my type.

[bobbyboucher]

49. Maybe you can put a number on how many

civilians we burned to asshes during the war. Or how many children were maimed, or completely obliterated? Can you give me some figures for that?

You'd have to pull your head out of the sand first, but I think you can do it.

[rooboy]

54. What an ignorant statement.

Most of these people have lived their whole lives in a society where life is dirt cheap and violence is government policy. A foreign power invades their country, effectively confiscates their oil, puts their businesses up for sale but you seem to think they should behave like they've seen all the re-runs of Happy Days and I Love Lucy?

Well, forgive me if they don't drink iced tea and eat cucumber sandwiches...

[RowWellandLive]

46. They showed morgue photographs

to prove that the sons were dead. If their bodies were not displayed there would forever be doubt that they were killed. They were not dragged through the streets, mutilated, burned, poked with sticks, or hung from a bridge. Even though, in the case of Sadam's sons, they were brutal murderers.

Is it possible that you really can not see the difference?

[bobbyboucher]

50. I can see the similarities,

they killed innocent people, we killed innocent people. They killed children, we killed children. They invaded us, we invaded them....errr.....wait, scratch that.

Justify showing the sons bodies all you want to, it is still barbaric as fuck. It sure looks like it worked the way they said it would, now that the sons are dead, everyone felt free to welcome the US troops to Iraq without worry of reprisal. Thank goodness we paraded their bodies out for the whole world to see. We are great, they are scum.

Violence begets more violence, obviously.

[bobbieinok]

6. 'at the invitation of the govt' - 'quite sure they will want us to stay'??

how can he 'know' unless only those willing to 'invite' US to stay will be in govt????????

answer is obvious, I know

their thuggery is in plain sight - how can so many view this admin as 'honorable,' 'dignified,' .......... and 'Christian'!!!!!!!!!

may God have mercy on us all

[drfemoe]

16. Denial

and hallucinations. The balloon never lands.

[jpak]

8. The Wolfowitz-Rove SS response

"We will fuck them. Do you hear me? We will fuck them. We will ruin them. Like no one has ever fucked them!'"

This will be bad...

[DulceDecorum]

27. Meanwhile, the mercenaries

are asking for their paychecks as they check out of Baghdad.

Blackwater's success is a result of the military's increased reliance on civilian partners. Founded in 1996 by an ex-Navy SEAL, it recruits in part from police departments and military bases in the Carolinas and traffics heavily with the Defense Department.

The company has been awarded more than $57 million in contracts since 2002, according to government records and an inspector general's report. Its responsibilities include training more than 10,000 Navy sailors in security each year and providing guards and two helicopters for Bremer's security detail.

The company sits on a 6,000-acre compound in Moyock, N.C., a half-hour drive from Norfolk, Va., and the world's largest Navy base. It uses elaborate facilities to train the military and law enforcement -- such as a mock R.U. Ready High School that simulates Columbine-like attacks.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/8327955.htm

[Miss Authoritiva]

9. Revenge, avenge, revenge, avenge

Regarding "our capabilities to, number one, identify those people; and, number two, to eliminate them:" How many of these "contractors" (okay, call them privatized military employees or mercenaries, your choice) have been doing just that (for various reasons) since they first arrived in Iraq? Does anybody know for sure just what the four "contractors" killed in Fallujah were doing? The killings seem so over the top by insurgency standards. Could there have been an element of revenge and retaliation here?

Has anybody heard anything like this? Just curious.

[Barrett808]

10. Send Trent Lott petition

This is a good place to plug the "Send Trent Lott to Iraq" petition:

http://www.petitiononline.com/SendLott/petition.html

Send Trent Lott to Iraq to "mow the whole place down"

To: Senate of the United States of America
On 29 October 2003, Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) is reported to have suggested his final solution to the Iraq problem:

"We need to have a different mix of troops, is the key. We may need to move some troops around. Honestly, it’s a little tougher than I thought it was going to be. If we have to, we just mow the whole place down, see what happens. You’re dealing with insane suicide bombers who are killing our people, and we need to be very aggressive in taking them out." ("GOP unity is strained by attacks", by Geoff Earle, http://www.thehill.com/news/102903/gopunity.aspx)

We request that Senator Lott be sent immediately to Iraq to, in his own words, "mow the place down". Mr. Lott would bring the appropriate aggressiveness needed to stop "insane suicide bombers who are killing our people." It is clear that only Senator Lott understands the situation in Iraq, so it would be in America's best interest that the Senator go to Iraq immediately and clean it up.

We note that Senator Lott declined military service when he had the opportunity ("Chickenhawk Database", http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=%20NEWS%3B%20Chickenhawks), but with a few weeks of modern Army training, he should be prepared to patrol the streets of Fallujah and start mowing with gusto.



Sincerely,

The Undersigned

[Miss Authoritiva]

11. Could we send Lott's hairstylist too?

[Jaybird]

41. i think you mean his rug doctor...n/t

[leftchick]

12. Iraq=Afghanistan, Occupation is Occupation!!!!....

I posted this in another thread and it is worth posting here also. I wish this could be beat into those neo-con needlebrains' heads!
:grr:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4646687

Occupational Hazards

<snip>
Still, the analogy holds true in one big and basic way: occupation is occupation. And no matter what the ideologies involved, occupiers are doomed to be resented, at the very least, and blamed for everything that goes wrong. U.S. authorities have applied a bit of psychoanalysis to this phenomenon. At a briefing to mark the first anniversary of the Iraq war earlier this month, one senior Coalition official said it had to do “with the psychological mindset of the average Iraqi. For 35 years everything that happened in this country—good or bad, and it was mostly bad—was attributable to the government. if something’s wrong, it’s the government’s fault.”

He went on to explain the resentment that many Iraqis display toward Americans these days: “Underneath it all is an unhappiness at being occupied. They feel somewhat guilty that they weren’t able to liberate themselves. There’s a perverse resentment that we liberated them.” Still, the fury in Fallujah that shocked us all is a lot more intense than resentment. It feels like hatred, as if many Iraqis who hated Saddam Hussein have now transferred their animosity to Uncle Sam.

CPA officials have long predicted an “uptick” in anti-U.S. insurgent activity as they prepare for the June 30 transfer of sovereignty to Iraqi institutions. March 2003 has the dubious honor of being the second-deadliest month for U.S. troops since President Bush declared an end to major combat operations on May 1 of last year. In all, 50 American soldiers died in March. (The most deaths in a single month was 82 killed last November when a number of aircraft were downed.) Meanwhile the number of foreign civilians targeted by insurgents—including the four Western military contractors whose corpses were desecrated in Fallujah—continues to climb.

As long as the security situation remains so dire—and the state of Iraqi security forces so fragile—the Coalition’s military presence here must remain muscular and visible. That, in turn, will continue to trigger anger and despair from those Iraqis who cannot tolerate being occupied or dominated by a foreign power. It’s a Catch-22. Coalition authorities are no doubt correct when they say the number of Iraqis who’ve taken up arms against the U.S. occupation represents “a very very small minority.” Still these guys—many of them Saddam’s former army or intelligence officers—are armed, professionally trained and highly motivated. And their ability to make high-profile hits against Coalition targets, both military and civilian, makes them potent beyond their numbers.

[teryang]

13. Wolfowitz still guiding policy?

He is the primary architect of this huge foreign policy diaster.

How would like to get briefed by the guy responsible for 4000 casualties, the elective squandering of lives, and 159 billion in hard cash, all based upon lies and misrepresentations? How can this man even show his despicable face to Congress let alone be listened to by anyone in authority?

[The Night Owl]

14. Shock and Awe may not have shocked or awed the first time around...

Shock and Awe may not have shocked or awed the first time around, but by God, this time will be the kicker! Or so says Wolfowitz.

What a joke. More of the junta's daily incompetence.

[keithyboy]

15. Let's give Wolfowitz up as a naked ransom for the rest of the troops

The very idea of this PNAC sleeze offering suggestion on how to kill more people!! I am outraged!

[jburton]

17. What about the roses?

Remember how he claimed the Iraqi's would great us as liberators and throw flowers at our feet?

Sure it will happen any day now.

[snippy]

23. Wasn't that revised to "floral program related activities?"

Or was that something else? I may be losing track of the lies.

[mike1963]

28. "hopeful horticulture"

:eyes:

[bfusco]

34. That's exactly

my thoughts when I read the remarks about underestimating. What will follow will surely be throwing gasoline on a fire.

[Rex]

18. Wolfowitz tells Congress that the Fallujah atrocities will be avenged.

"We owe it to our corporate masters," Wolfowitz claimed. "We will make these people love Democracy & capitalism...even if we have to kill thousands of innocent bystanders, then sell the families burial plots."

[PfcHammer]

19. A modest proposal

Let the spoiled, drug-addicted, alcholic, overfed, overindulged Bush grandchildren run wild in Fallujah for a week. Their criminal activities will have the Iraqis begging for mercy.

[LibDemAlways]

20. Wolfowitz talks about bringing Fallujah "under

control." Yesterday I heard some military wonk use the term "pacify." All of Iraq is Fallujah - teeming with hatred of the invaders. There's no way to "control" this clusterfuck except by getting rid of Bush and then pressuring Kerry to get the hell out. There is no way to "win" this thing.

[The Stranger]

21. Why is the monkey Paul Wolfowitz still in office?

[joanski01]

22. Wolfowitz

"Wolfowitz added that he was "quite sure" the new Iraqi government "will want us to stay there until killers like the ones who perpetrated these atrocities in Fallujah are brought under control." "

Wolfowitz is quite sure of this because he knows that Chalabli will be the new Prime Minister. Rummy and Wolfowitz love Chalabli. He gave them credible evidence about WMD's so that they could invade Iraq and assured them that the Iraqi's would throw flowers at them. They are just going to have to steal the 2004 election because I don't think they are giving up Iraq any time soon.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

24. Wolfowitz probably wants another My Lai.

[missile_bender]

25. Iraq after becoming "independent" will resemble Eastern Europe after WWII,

Wolfowitz: ">"...'There's not going to be any difference in our military posture on July 1st from what it is on June 30th, except that we will be there then at the invitation of a sovereign Iraqi government,' he said."

At least he admits the U.S. military dictatorship there will remain.

[snippy]

26. Will we identify these insurgents to be killed as accurately as we

identified the thousands of innocent Iraqis we have killed and imprisoned? The only Iraqi Bush has disarmed is "Armless Ali."

[daleo]

29. Shades of the Christmas bombing of Hanoi, 1972?

On the theory that Iraq is a sped up version of Viet Nam (Iraqnam as Saigon68 says), I think this promised response may have something of the flavor of the Christmas Bombing of Hanoi, 1972. There is a need among the crazies of the administration to show how tough they are, and to muscle up their negotiating position before an expected withdrawal. Will they think a mini "Shock and Awe" will serve the same purpose, on the way to the June 'handover of power to a sovereign Iraq'? By the way, I know the supposed handover of power is just a scam and a fraud, but they have to pretend otherwise.

[legin]

30. It strikes me from reading this and other linked articles

is that the 'meaning' of the 'action' 'the Fallujah incident' is not the 4 deaths but the fact that it was very visably communicated around the world by photographs and video tape. This would tend to suggest that any reply by the u.s. would have to obtain a similar level of 'world theatre'.

There is like a sort of conversation being started by the resistance in Iraq, "We very publicly challenge you, with the whole world watching, to show that you have any authority at all in Iraq." The u.s. have to reply in the form of conversation in which they have been addressed.

The u.s. could just quietly find who did this and just bump them off one by one over a six month period, but that doesn't cut it.

There is also the added ingrediant that it co-incides with the recent Clarke testimony that questions bush*'s handling of the 'war on terrorism'.

Another problem is that being authoritarian is an important part of how right-wingers define themselves and how they want to be be seen by the rest of the world. So challenging the authority of a right-winger has a different meaning to challenging the authority of a liberal. An sort of analogy would be that you can gently take the mickey out of a teacher you know well, but wo betide you if you try the same thing on the Headmaster.

[daleo]

33. Interesting language - "a sort of conversation"

I recall Viet Nam got that way too. "Sending a message", "bomb-o-grams", etc.

Wars with no real purpose (Viet Nam), or purposes that dare not speak their name (Iraq, oil) get weird this way.

[Minstrel Boy]

35. excellent analysis

Thanks for the post.

The significance of the Fallujah event is that it was seen. And so will be the response.

[IndianaGreen]

31. Are we going to "eliminate" all those kids that were dancing in joy

Are we going to "eliminate" all those kids that were dancing in joy over the dead mercenaries?

Doesn't anyone realize that we are in the middle of a blood feud that we started by ourselves?

The only response is to do what Dennis Kucinich has said which is to bring all US troops and personnel out of Iraq as soon as a Democratic President takes the oath of office, preferably before then.

By trying to "win" in Iraq, we will not be able to prevent the inevitable Islamic Republic from being created in former secular Iraq, and we will only succeed in having more names added to a future war memorial for the Iraq War.

[rfkrocks]

32. We can't win a guerrilla war moron Wolfowitz

did you guys read jimmy breslin the other day-the IRA held Northern Ireland down with 75 committed terrorists-Fallujah has 250,000 people- we have 100,000 troops for the whole country-we lose-what country controls a guerrilla movement-Columbia? Chechnya (spell?)? Please get our troops home-its going to be bad whether we stay or go so why kill more of US-Bush is the worst president ever

[realdeal22k]

38. One marine is good for a 1000/1 kill ratio

The "insurgents" don't stand a chance if the US really gets serious.

It would be quick and swift if we decide to make the move. Sad but true.

[rfkrocks]

42. No way

I understand firepower but history says we lose-the truth is we have 100,000 troops-the country has millions and the shia are getting ready to light us up-the insurgents won't fight in fixed positions-thats not what guerrillas do-they bleed you slowly so that what seems in your grasp just expands into another part of the country-Powell ans Schwartzkopf all said we needed hundreds of thousands of troops to occupy Iraq in 1991 due to the fact the country was strung together with glue by the British Empire-did you see little children carving bodies up the other day?-thats a guerilla movement-the crusaders had better armor better tactics and much fewer men but they lost and left with their tail between their legs-you are talking about control-who do we arrest?-all Sunni men-not enough soldiers-unless we draft-time to bring the boys home-marines can't win the political battle-it is impossible to win-which is why we didn't do it in 1991-how many more troops die and for what? what is the strategy? There is just an insanity and even the koolaid is wearing off-marines win fixed battles not badly planned occupations

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbyboucher]

51. We could just nuke them too.

I mean, if you don't give a fuck about slaughtering civies, then we could really do some damage.

I am right about that no? You don't give a fuck how many children we slaughter?

[thebigidea]

52. actually, one marine could take all of Iraq

thanks to Donald Rumsfeld, we only have superheroes these days that are invulnerable to bullets and so forth.

if "we" decide to make the move, I hope you'll be leading the charge!

Godblessmerica!

[Ilsa]

39. I think Wolfie should join the 4,000 Marines headed for

Fallujah. Let him lead the raids and searches.

[TankLV]

43. Oh no!

Not these psychopaths!

God help us.

God save us from these devils that occupy OUR White House.

[farmbo]

47. Goebbels briefs Reichstag on Warsaw Uprising...

...The Thousand year Reich will avenge the deaths of our glorious Troopers by executing five-fold the number of the terrorist swine who perpetrated these inhumane acts!

Seig Heil!!!

Seig Heil!!!

Seig Heil!!!

[Voltaire99]

48. Wolfie as Kurtz: "Exterminate the brutes"

We can be certain that Wolfowitz's briefing amounted to little more than plotting the murder of more Iraqi civilians. The old "demonstration effect"--a "lesson" or two measured in dead women and children--is probably shortly at hand.

Pity the Iraqis. Pity the poor American "volunteers" who are stuck in Iraq committing murder, many of them against their will. Pity Americans of good will, powerless to stop this immoral slaughter.

As Robert Lowell so eloquently wrote, back when the US was killing millions in Southeast Asia:


Pity the planet, all joy gone

from this sweet volcanic cone;

peace to our children when they fall

in small war on the heels of small

war--until the end of time

to police the earth, a ghost

orbiting forever lost

in our monotonous sublime.


                    from "Waking Early Sunday Morning"

[R Hickey]

55. "We must destroy the village in order to save it"

In Viet Nam we won the hearts and minds of the local people by burning their houses down. "Pacification" our war-mongers called it.

Burning homes then worked just like it is working today in Iraq Nam. My mind can still see the last of our troops leaving Saigon by helicopter, from the top of our embassy.