Student takes 'under God' out of pledge, feels the heat

[Newsjock]

http://www.tribnet.com/news/story/4913718p-4848428c.html

MARTHA MODEEN; The News Tribune

A Spanaway Lake High School senior has been banned from TV production assignments for the rest of the year because he altered the Pledge of Allegiance during a student-produced broadcast.

The student, Kenny Hess, removed the words "under God" from the pledge, which is shown with an American flag background on classroom TV throughout the school. Hess also declined to recite the phrase and, instead read, "one nation ... indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

School officials said they've punished Hess for misusing school equipment to deliver a personal message.

... Hess, an avowed atheist since sixth grade, thinks he's forced to listen to a religious statement when he hears the pledge. Last week, his world current events class debated Newdow's case. After one student said, "Christians are forcing us to listen to this," Hess vowed that he could make students not listen to the words. The phrase "under God" was added to the pledge by congressional vote in 1954, during the Cold War.

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[PinkTiger]

1. I hope he sues.

This is another example of the Big Brother right wing fundies telling us how to live, what to say, do, etc.
They suck.

[nodehopper]

11. ACLU should be all over this, no? hopefully.

[bluestateguy]

2. He's just complying with a federal court order

Unless the Supreme Court says otherwise, he is just follwing the precedent of a court order. The school has no standing to punish him.

[Eye and Monkey]

3. Now THERE'S a true American.

The President should present young Mr. Hess with a commendation. Damn, we don't currently have a President. We'll have to correct that.

[sithknight]

4. brainwash em' young

It makes perfect sense: we tell kids that they live in the greatest democracy in the world where free speech and liberty reign supreme...and then we drop them in high schools, censor the school newspaper, randomly search them without probable cause, and leave them dazed cattle who don't understand or appreciate their rights. This snippet is just plain vile and symptomatic of the erosion of our democratic tradition. If we convince our children that their liberty is less than it is, they won't fight back when tyrants take it away.

[Mikimouse]

10. Take a look at my sig. line...

You are correct in what you suggest: "we tell kids that they live in the greatest democracy in the world where free speech and liberty reign supreme..."

read my sig. line and see if you find some validity in it...

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

5. Didn't the Supreme Court rule that was a valid option for those

who felt it offended them? That there was no law permitting compulsatory God utterage?

[Eye and Monkey]

7. I don't think that they've ruled yet, tho' one of the Robed rePubs -

did make exactly that (invalid) point. If I remember correctly, the parent who brought the current suit to SCOTUS responded (he presented his case himself) - something to the effect that peer pressure and reprisal from the school were expected if a student refused to be coerced into saying "under god".

In other words, it sounds like this situation is the proof in the pudding.

[sithknight]

8. true, but...

that's not what happened here. The kid got in trouble for "mis-using school property" to send a "personal message". When I was in high school I got in trouble for trying to publish an article about using hemp as an alternative resource (the school thought it was promoting pot). The Court has held that school administrators retain a huge degree of editorial control over school journalists. While you can't compel a student to say "god" because of 1) separation of church and state and 2) the fifth amendment's protection from compelled speech. The court takes a very narrow view of this issue, looking at it as a corollary right of the state to dictate how its resources may be used to promote a message. This is the same logic that allows the DMV to choose to not print a license plate they deem "obscene". This just plain smacks of small scale fascist educators: worse than criminal.

[DavidFL]

12. I agree with the criminal part

Moronic, crypto-fascist school administrators attempting to snuff out any trace of independent or critical thought in high school students. This is what should be criminal.

[bleedingheart]

6. That is the way my mother says the pledge because

when she graduated from high school in '49 it wasn't in there.

[TahitiNut]

26. It wasn't until I was in 7th grade that "under God" ...

... was in the approved version. It's always sounded very awkward to me. My parents, aunts, and uncles all learned the pledge to the flag with their hands outstretched in the Nazi-like salute (sometimes called the "Bellamy salute"). I attended five different elementary schools and don't recall more than two of them as requiring the daily recitation of the PoA.

In 1942, Congress both included the pledge in the U.S. Code and specified the hand-over-heart salute. It wasn't until after then that schools began to more commonly require the recitation of the pledge. My parents, aunts, and uncles were never required to recite the pledge in public school as a regular ritual. It's a myth that schools have all adopted this practice for the last 7-8 decades or even the last 6-7 decades. It sure wasn't ubiquitous when I was in school and certainly not when my parents' generation was in school. Most of such psycho-patriotism has happened in the years subsequent to 1954.

[Bill McBlueState]

29. some anecdotal evidence

I went to school in a small Ohio town. I started kindergarten in 1985 and graduated in 97. In kindergarten we said the pledge every day. For the next few years we said it occasionally, maybe when the principal was feeling especially patriotic. After sixth grade I don't remember ever saying it.

I'm sure everybody freaked out after 9/11 and they started saying it again in that school system.

*But* the idea that the POA is some kind of cherished tradition is bordering on BS. I suspect it doesn't get said as often as people think it does, at least not before the events of the past few years.

[LifeDuringWartime]

30. well, at my school,

it is said on the morning announcements every day. ive heard of, seen, and been involved in many conflicts with teachers over not standing for it. school policy is that if you dont participate in the pledge of allegiance you get a referral.

one day in gym i was sitting down trying to do homework when the pledge came on, and the teacher (lol) kicked me out and sent me to the office. i had a nice chat with the principal about it. he said that if a student has a religious, political, or philosophical reason why they dont want to do it, then it's all good. unfortunately my band teacher still insists that everyone stand up no matter what

[AspenRose]

34. My grandmother didn't approve of my saying the pledge as a child....

"because it doesn't apply to blacks in this country," she said.

(For perspective: She was born in 1906 and died in 1989. So for a large part of her life, she was right. Kind of hypocritical to say you're one nation under Jim Crow.)

[peterh]

9. On the one hand…Christians feel threaten…

Because they think atheists are trying to force their non-beliefs onto them….
And on the other hand non-christians feel threaten because a christian god is being push upon them….
Christians have their freedom to worship in their church, home and to themselves for the most part….non-christians would like the freedom form being evangelized in public places….

Logic would dictate that the jesus-freaks already have their freedom while the rest of us are just aspiring for ours….but then, there’s not much logic in believing in fairy tales either….

[RapidCreek]

14. Your point is half wrong

atheists are not trying to force their non-belif on anyone. If this were so, Atheists would advocate saying the following.... "one nation, which denys the existence of God, with liberty and justice for all." As you know, this is not the case.

RC

[Blayde Starrfyre]

15. I disagree

I believe that militant atheism can certainly reach a point where it might as well be a "church of no God," with its own brand of evangelism.

[RapidCreek]

16. Hmm what's your point?

Atheism is the belief that their is no God...whether it is a Church or not is immaterial. Never once in the US, that I am aware of, has an atheist expected government institutions to overtly deny the existance of God. What exactly is it you disagree with? What is militant atheism? You mean they carry guns around, stick them in your face and tell you to renounce God or something? I'll say it again...since you seemed to miss it the first time around..Athiests believe there is no God....they don't however suggest that the pledge be change as follows..."one nation, which denys the existence of God, with liberty and justice for all." Do they?...No they don't. You make no sense.


RC

[Blayde Starrfyre]

18. Generalization

I said Atheism can reach a point where it's essentially a fierce devotion to no God, not all that far removed from fierce devotion to a diety. It's just an observation. I definitely think that, were the balance of power to swing in their favor, some Atheists could damn well be demanding that it be changed to "One nation, under no God." That's why this country doesn't need militant Christianity, and it doesn't need militant Atheism, it needs the religion I profess to be a member of, "Notgivingafuckism."

[sendero]

25. So...

.... you are guessing what would happen. Great crystal ball you have there. We don't have to guess, we know that Christians are very busy trying to force their god down our throats.

[0007]

27. Your saying "what?"

Could you be a little more clear?

[0007]

28. Your saying "what?"

Could you be a little more clear?

[TahitiNut]

32. "militant atheism"??

Hmmm... :think:

So, I suppose that's like "militant feminism" would be a woman who struggles while being raped? I see. :crazy:

(I sure see some strange terminology on DU sometimes.) :shrug:

[peterh]

20. I think you misread me….

I didn’t say atheists were in deed forcing their non-beliefs on to Christians….I said it’s a belief of the Christians that that may be taking place….again, when you believe in fairy tales…..

[RapidCreek]

23. True

It's a thinking pattern devoid of logic.

RC

[truthisfreedom]

13. by drawing attention to this, school officials have done him a big favor

in his quest to make a change.

[Judi Lynn]

17. He's got some contemptible school officials there

trying to visit him with the wrath of God for omitting something which wasn't even there before 1954, during the McCarthy commie hunt.



Pitiful, odd, hateful, ugly, American mini-tyrants.

[rooboy]

19. Is there any other country in the world that has a pledge of allegiance?

I see a lot of American corporations and politicians who don't seem to feel much of a duty to their country, so what's the point?

[Dr Fate]

22. I know- and why do you have to say it more than once??

Its a PLEDGE- is it so weak of a pledge that we have to say it everyday?

[AGD4y2357y]

24. Yes

The nations that have had compulsory "pledges of allegiance" include the Soviet Union, Afghanistan under the Taliban, and Nazi germany.

[realdeal22k]

31. Is there any other country in the world with free speech

in their constitution? I see a lot of censorship of speech in a lot of countries.

[Ravy]

21. Bright kid. He proved his point! (n/t)

[JohnOneillsMemory]

33. True story: I posted the First Amendment in a school in rural Virginia.

I was working with an opera ensemble on a tour that landed us in a rural Virginia regional middle school with a large new auditorium theater that booked big shows regularly.

It was a Saturday and a teacher unlocked the building and a few rooms to use. We had lunch in the art room seated at tiny chairs and tables.

As I walked the hallways, I noticed 'God Bless America' signs in many classroom windows. The art room had an American flag made up of hundreds of child sized hand-tracing cut outs of red, white, and blue paper.

This was during the official invasion of Iraq and I was outraged to see the indoctrination of toddlers with the idea of America=God. I know the Southern Baptist jihad when I see it.

So I wrote out the First Amendment to the US Constitution on a blackboard with the addendum "this school is currently unconstitutional. Why? Discuss. Hint-God."

I met journalist Helen Thomas at Oakland airport months later and told her the story. She nearly teared up and beamed warmly as she autographed my pocket copy of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Vanity note: Turning over my 1000th post odometer here.
"God bless democraticunderground.com." HA!