U.S. prepares for forceful return to Fallujah

[SHRED]

The military has become(a long time ago) the security guards for corporate interests abroad.
Now they are going in for revenge killing.

How many civilians, ya think, are going to get killed?
Estimates have it at about 50,000 killed (civilians and troops) so far.

-------------------------

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001894733_iraq03.html


FALLUJAH, Iraq — The charred bodies have been cut down from a bridge over the Euphrates River, but the shadows of the four American security contractors who were killed here continue to fall over this restive Iraqi town.

As leaders in the United States and Iraq huddle to map their next moves in Fallujah, the key actors on the ground are showing no signs of being able to prevent a fierce clash.

A day earlier, a senior U.S. military official said the American forces would not embark on "a pell-mell rush" into Fallujah, and that any military strike "will be precise" and "overwhelming."

[saigon68]

1. Can you say Lidice?

The Massacre in Lidice, June 10th, 1942

The Nazis were skilled practitioners of collective responsibility, the murder of an entire community as a reprisal for individual acts of resistance. Reprisals were taken against Jews and non-Jews throughout Nazi-occupied Europe. It was an effective tactic in stifling popular enthusiasm for resistance. The annihilation of the Czech town of Lidice is one of the most notorious instances of the Nazi practice of reprisal.

On May 27, 1942, Reinhard Heydrich, head of the RSHA, the Reichsprotektor of Czechoslovakia, the man who had convened the Wannsee Conference only four months previously, was severely wounded in a grenade attack on his car near Prague by two Czech parachutists sent from London by the Czech government-in-exile. The two Czechs managed to leave the scene and took refuge in the Karl Borromaeus Church in Prague.

On June 4, Heydrich died of his wounds. The Nazis swore revenge: they ordered the execution of ten thousand Czechs and threatened the expulsion of millions. The Karl Borromaeus Church, where the assassins and more than one hundred members of the Czech resistance were hiding, was besieged. Everyone in the church was killed by the SS. In Lezaky, a village east of Prague, where the assassins' radio transmitter was discovered, every adult was killed. The children were forcibly removed to Germany for "reeducation," a process that only two of them survived.

At dawn on June 10, all the residents of Lidice, a village ten miles outside Prague, were taken from their homes. They were shot in batches of ten at a time behind a barn. By late afternoon, 192 men and boys and 71 women had been murdered. The other women were sent to concentration camps. The children were dispersed, some to concentration camps, although a few who were considered sufficiently Aryan were sent to Germany. The SS then razed the town and tried to eradicate its memory. The name of Lidice was expunged from all official records.

[Broadslidin]

8. We May Have Forgotten, The 17 Fallujah Demonstrators who were shot....

Shot to death last Spring by our nervous U.S. military,
Unfortunately the citizens of Fallujah have not forgotten.

On January 8th, the Los Angeles Times reported,
Iraqis are upset and bitter over our young U.S. military
indiscriminately kicking down doors in the middle
of the night and taking away men and male children.
As of early January, the Abu Ghraib concentration camp
outside Baghdad contained 13,000 prisoners.
Family members are unable to obtain information or
locate detained husbands and sons.

I sometimes wonder, how we would react to a foreign
military and corporate invasion force intent on pillaging
our natural resources.
I have yet to see a Plump Iraqi.

[bpilgrim]

9. Naomi Klein (The Nation): Let's Make Enemies - excellent report

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040419&s=klein

discuss...


posted by Jack Rabbit

From The Nation
Issue of April 19, 2004
Posted online Thursday April 1

Let\'s Make Enemies
By Naomi Klein
Baghdad

We return to our current hotel--the one we want to leave because there are bets on when it is going to get hit--and flick on the TV: The BBC is showing footage of Richard Clarke's testimony before the September 11 Commission, and a couple of pundits are arguing about whether invading Iraq has made America safer.
They should try finding a hotel room in this city, where the US occupation has unleashed a wave of anti-American rage so intense that it now extends not only to US troops, occupation officials and their contractors but also to foreign journalists, aid workers, their translators and pretty much anyone else associated with the Americans. Which is why we couldn't begrudge the hotelier her decision: If you want to survive in Iraq, it's wise to stay the hell away from people who look like us. (We thought about explaining that we were Canadians, but all the American reporters are sporting the maple leaf--that is, when they aren't trying to disappear behind their newly purchased headscarves.)
US occupation chief Paul Bremer hasn't started wearing a hijab yet, and is instead tackling the rise of anti-Americanism with his usual foresight. Baghdad is blanketed with inept psy-ops organs like Baghdad Now, filled with fawning articles about how Americans are teaching Iraqis about press freedom. "I never thought before that the Coalition could do a great thing for the Iraqi people," one trainee is quoted saying. "Now I can see it on my eyes what they are doing good things for my country and the accomplishment they made. I wish my people can see that, the way I see it."
Unfortunately, the Iraqi people recently saw another version of press freedom when Bremer ordered US troops to shut down a newspaper run by supporters of Muqtada al-Sadr. The militant Shiite cleric has been preaching that Americans are behind the attacks on Iraqi civilians and condemning the interim constitution as a "terrorist law." So far, al-Sadr has refrained from calling on his supporters to join the armed resistance, but many here are predicting that the closing down of the newspaper--a nonviolent means of resisting the occupation--was just the push he needed. But then, recruiting for the resistance has always been a specialty of the Presidential Envoy to Iraq: Bremer's first act after being tapped by Bush was to fire 400,000 Iraqi soldiers, refuse to give them their rightful pensions but allow them to hold on to their weapons--in case they needed them later.

Read more.
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040419&s=klein

peace

[Lalena]

32. This is an exceptional article. I wish the media would focus

on the last question posed: has the invasion made Iraqis feel safer?

[NNN0LHI]

10. I think everyone knows...

...how we would react to a foreign military and corporate invasion force intent on pillaging our natural resources. We would go postal on them. Simple as that.

Don

[Aidoneus]

19. there are 'plump Iraqis' to be found..

They're somewhat easy to find--they all serve on the puppet governing council or under it.

I sometimes wonder, how we would react to a foreign
military and corporate invasion force intent on pillaging
our natural resources.

I've wondered this too, and have observed reactions here to make a few guesses. Taking DU as a cross-section, many would collaborate with the invaders, many would just try to keep themselves safe and out of the action, some would resist it.

[captain jack]

21. with respect.

Reading your last few lines I couldn't help but reply with:
The military in this country would lock us all in camps at the drop of a hat(patriot act,kent state,florida peace rally etc etc)The crporate invasion has been on here for some time and our natural resources are being over-pillaged. un-plump americans predicted.
The reaction? you are a witness here and now.

[whatelseisnew]

30. Good Point

I haven't heard or read a news source refer to events prior to the last couple of weeks in relation to what's going on now.

[asjr]

2. The hole GW dug just

keeps getting deeper and deeper. Fallujah will be the breaking point in this illegal war.

[radfringe]

4. caught between a shrub and a bush

if we don't respond, it will empower terrorists/insurgents (whatever the label of the day is) -- i.e. they made us back down therefore we are defeatable

if we do respond it will become a rallying cray -- REMEMBER FALLUJAH!

[saigon68]

6. Is that like "Remember the Alamo" ?

or Maybe "Remember Pearl Harbor"?

or for those who are really old---"Remember the Maine"

or on a diffent tack---- "Remember to bring the Peanuts" to the old ball game?

[koopie57]

35. at some point

do you think it is possible for UN forces to come in to protect the Iraqi people from us? If we don't want to work with the UN, the UN will go in, get us out?

[xchrom]

3. oh right and this is going to go well

bremer has failed -- failure is his trade mark.
he can't do it right and we're giving him another chance to fuck up.
even if nothing happens with their overwhelming response -- the peoples attitude there will be the same. they will simply wait for the americans to leave.

[Mikimouse]

5. Pffft!

Bluster, bluster, bluster...sticking chest out and proclaiming that reprisals against the empire will not be tolerated...bluster, bluster, bluster. I'm so tired of this BS.

[bpilgrim]

7. NANKING

The imperial Japanese military had a terrible time distingushing between 'friend-n-foe' during their time of bringing their version of 'peace and proseperity' to their region - asia - of the world during wwII.

they would have all kinds of 'clever' ways of distingusishing the ennemy... haircuts, sun-tan, clothes, posture, attitude, etc...

i guess in some ways we are fortunate... not many have a second opprotunity to relearn from their past mistakes.

maybe we will be more successful this time around - vietnam - in imposing our will.

:shrug:

peace

[cliss]

11. Time to clear out of Dodge, boys.

The US is promising BIG fireworks, and by God I believe them. If I were a civilian in Fallujah right now, I would be packing my scant possessions and take a foray out into the sand dunes.

They're going to blow the fucking place off the map.

[Redleg]

12. I'll bet the freaks at Freeperland are going apeshit over this post.

Screw 'em if they can't handle the truth.

[SOS]

13. Fallujah is a city of 750,000 people

and there appeared to be about 200-300 young men involved in the aftermath of the killings.
A sense of proportion seems to be missing when promising an overwhelming and violent response.

[legin]

14. I've seen it suggested on another board

that the reason for the attacks was that the commander of the previous occupation troops, the 82nd airbourne division, had a deal with some of the big-wigs in Fallujah that the u.s. stayed out of certain areas. Then the rotation happened and the Marines with their size 10 boots decided to ignore that, hence the attack.

It kind of makes some sense.

So the deduction would be that there are no-go areas in Fallujah, so the reply by the u.s. could probably be a public display of extending the writ of the u.s. forces over the whole of Fallujah. Kind of like when the british broke up the no-go areas in Belfast many decades ago perhaps which I vaguely remember when I was a kid.

[Aidoneus]

15. the organizations that took responsibility for this..

that is, the Brigades of the Martyr Ahmad Yassin, Brigades of the 1920 Revolution, and the Brigades of Ali, a few days previous declared al-Fallujah to be considered as a city liberated from occupation and warned the invaders against entering it again. This after much fighting over the last few weeks (well, months, but particularly so), many atrocities committed by the invaders, and heavy losses inflicted upon them in response. The occupyers sent their mercenaries inside in defiance of this, and got an example of the fist backing up that declaration and warning.

There is much for the occupyers to account for in the eyes of the people of the city and its resistance. The humiliation and helplessness that Iraqis feel every day under occupation was transferred onto the bodies of those mercenaries. The fools in unbloodied suits making these proclamations to look tough for the cameras will bluster more brainwashed kids into their graves. What a waste.

[legin]

17. Another guess would be

that the 'free media' will signal in advance what is going to happen by saying how impossible it will be to say break up the no-go areas, so that when bush* does it sucessfully he comes up smelling of roses.

[leftchick]

16. Read the hopeless mindset of the marines that are itching to go in...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&ncid=2026&e=1&u=/latimests/20040403/ts_latimes/troopswaiteagerlytoreenterfallouja

<snip>
"I've got a lot of hate inside me, but I try to put that aside," said Sgt. Eric Nordwig, 29, of Riverside, a veteran of the battle that toppled Saddam Hussein (news - web sites). "We just sit and take it and be mortared."
The time has come to "clean up the town," he said.

<snip>
Col. J.C. Coleman, chief of staff for the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, said this morning that Fallouja was key to stabilizing central Iraq.

"Fallouja is a barrier on the highway to progress. We're going to eliminate that barrier without damaging the highway," he said.

Coleman said the slayings of the four American civilians triggered a rethinking of Marine strategy.

"The circumstances on the ground have changed…. Our operation as a result will change," he said.

[NeoConsSuck]

18. My prayers go out to the citizens of Fallujah

I won't even try to pretend my loyalties are with the Americans.

[louinc]

20. 50,000 dead?

There's only 200,000 people in Fallujah. The only way they could kill that many terrorist would be to carpet bomb the place. The American military is far more precise than that. No, I'm just guessing they will evacuate the town and then go in to root out the bad guys. Someone else suggested that these Americans some how breached some sort of agreement to stay out of that area. Perhaps, but to attack a lightly armed Ford Explorer with an RPG, kill the occupants, and then burn the bodies and desacrate them. There's a reason Saddumb ruled his kingdom with an iron fist. Not to respond is seen as weakness and we all know that weakness is not respected in that part of the world. I lived in the Middle East for 5 years, learned the language and their customs. Al Qeda attacked Spain and influenced the out come of an election. No retalatory action took place. Already they are finding explosives planted under train tracks. Dealing with these people is not a matter of right or left, conservative or liberal, republican or democrat, it's a matter of dealing with people who hate you and want to kill you with every fiber of their being. If you show weakness they will go for your jugular, show strength and they will back down. It's as simple as that. I think we have to learn from history. The fact that we went into Iraq is neither here nor there, it just is. If we leave Iraq the way we left Vietnam there will be a civil war and a blood bath this world has never seen. It will make Rwanda look like child's play.

IMHO
louinc

[leftchick]

23. there will be a civil war in Iraq regardless if the US occupiers stay...

or leave. If the occupiers stay they are just easy targets for the resistance fighters. You are under the mistaken impression these resistance fighters are "terrorists". Sounds like reich-wing logic to me. They are Iraqis who want their country back and it is a huge mistake both in terms of money and lives to think we can "win" anything. I say we bring our troops the fuck home now!

[bpilgrim]

25. dr. strangelove

i presume?

apparantly you don't know your history - vietnam - or your current events we are already waging 'war' in iraq.

how do you propose we get tougher?

carpet bomb them?


Carpet bombing anti-tank defenses outside
Shweinfert, 1945.

:shrug:

peace

[SHRED]

26. 50,000 "so far"

Up to this date since the "war" started.

Sorry for the mix up.

[The Night Owl]

27. Saddam would agree with you.

Saddam ruled Iraq with an iron fist. Now you are suggesting that the U.S. should rule Iraq the same way Saddam did. What gives you the idea that the U.S. iron fist will be more persuasive than Saddam's iron fist?

[thebigidea]

29. pure, unvarnished hogwash...

so Al Qaeda was responsible for the Spanish election? Not Aznar's lies and bullshit? Not the fact that 90% of the Spanish were against the Iraq war?

"If we leave Iraq the way we left Vietnam there will be a civil war and a blood bath this world has never seen."

say, do you remember when they said that about Vietnam?

[saigon68]

34. I think the Resistance Forces are well out of Fallujah

Does your plan involve "Killing them all and letting God sort them out"?

a hint: use spell check

[democrank]

22. I hate this...

this war, the death and blown off legs. I hate how some thought it would be a cakewalk, complete with flowers. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! BRING `EM ON!

I detest Bush`s arrogant prancing and his moronic simplifications... with him or with the terrorists. I think the media should get on their knees and beg forgiveness for their reckless Disneyland presentations of the destruction of Iraq.

This whole mess sickens me.

[leesa]

24. Simply shameful!

[Capt_Nemo]

28. By using desporportionate means the US military will get a backlash

proportional to their stupidity.

I say: bring them on!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

31. Live Free or Die

I'll bet New Hamshireites aren't the only ones who think that.

[Chicago Democrat]

33. 2 Iraqi Police Chiefs and their drivers were killed today...

Barely a peep out of our media.

Oh I forgot, dead Iraqis don't matter, silly me.

These mercenaries who earn $2000 per day knew the risks and took the chance.

The people of Falluja have no choice in the matter of their future. It is solely in the hand of George W. Bush.

Which future for Falluja will Bush choose?