US tanks deploy in Baghdad as Shiite radicals take to streets

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040403/wl_afp/iraq_us&cid=1512&ncid=1480

BAGHDAD (AFP) - US tanks deployed in the Iraqi capital to stop hundreds of angry protestors marching on the coalition's city-centre headquarters as Shiite Muslim radicals took to the streets across central and southern Iraq.

The protest in the capital turned violent as some supporters of radical leader Moqtada Sadr threw themselves at the US tanks and a police officer said at least two of the demonstrators had been crushed.


There was no immediate confirmation of the deaths from police headquarters or the US military.


Huge protests were also held in the central pilgrimage city of Najaf and as far south as Amara, while unarmed militiamen from Sadr's Mehdi Army paraded in Sadr City, a sprawling mainly Shiite neighbourhood of the capital regarded as a radical stronghold.

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[w13rd0]

1. Your tagline...

...is all too true...

[NNN0LHI]

2. I think things are getting ready to blow over there n/t

[leftchick]

6. I am certain of it Don....

These people are Pissed...Note: They have their own army?!?



Members of Shiite radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr's Mehdi Army parade in Baghdad's Shiite neighborhood of Sadr city.(AFP/Str)



They even let the ladies out to protest too!

[Ripley]

9. Those pictures are very frightening.

I think our new rotation of Guardsmen better take a lot of pep pills, cause this looks like a timebomb and the fuse is short.

[Mari333]

14. new rotations? they are sending over damaged soldiers

who were already there.
if any of you care, really, please call your senators and congresspeople and demand the troops be sent home now.
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[Ripley]

15. About 100 soldiers came home to my area last week.

But another 200 shipped out a couple of weeks ago. Of course they don't interview them about what it's really like, other than for the soldier's to say "it was the worst time of my life" and leave it at that.

I hope your son stays safe Mari.

[realdeal22k]

13. They even let the ladies out

How very human of them. When do they get to show their faces in public?

[leftchick]

16. and your point is?

Perhaps it is TOO FUCKING DANGEROUS for them to leave their homes with the imperial occupiers ready to gun them down?

[realdeal22k]

22. Huh? But they did leave their homes

My point was that they can't show their faces in public and that is very sad. These "ladies" are human too and should not be beaten down like this.

[leftchick]

24. realdeal22k get a clue...

The ones being beaten down right now are ALL of the Iraqis by the Imperial US Occupiers 24/7. They look real fucking happy right now don't they? The Iraq Occupation is a loser for everyone. There will be no "democracy", rummy's bases won't be able to be used, the oil will not flow as long as the US occupiers are there! I think you took a left when you should have taken a right... :eyes:

[NickB79]

46. They were allowed to show their faces under Saddam

Because of his enforcement of a secular Iraqi society, albeit through threats of bodily harm. There were also far fewer rapes and abductions under Saddam, since they still had a police force not torn apart by assassinations. This law enforcement meant that the right of the women to go out without burkas was protected, even if their familie's and husbands disagreed. Now, they risk death and rape if they disobey their husbands. It's pretty ironic that the people actually had it better in some ways under Saddam than they do under the US.

[paulk]

32. the point is...

that picture represents al Sadr's vision of Iraq's future.

Al Sadr and his follower's are Iraq's Taliban - for them to come to power would be the worst possible outcome of this whole mess.

[leftchick]

35. well guess what....

a theocracy in Iraq is a foregone conlusion. Many predicted and protested that this would happen. There is Nothing the US can do to stop it now. It is best to get our troops the fuck out of there and let the Iraqis have their country back.

[paulk]

39. A theocracy is not a foregone conclusion...

Especially one as radical as that envisioned by Al-Sadr and his followers.

Iraq was a secular state. That phalanx of burkaed women is no better a future for Iraq than a US occupation, and will be just as much our fault if we pull out and allow it to happen.

[Dhalgren]

41. Uh, the reason it was a secular state was because of Saddam.

I am much opposed to fundamentalist Islam (as I am to any 'fundamentalist' religion), but for the Iraqis to achieve self-rule, they must rule themselves. We may not like what they do, but as long they they behave within international rules, we have to leave them alone. We are not their "Great White Father" - they are adult humans and must be treated as such.

[paulk]

47. It would have been better to leave Saddam alone

but now we're faced with several bad choices.

It's not in the best interests of the US or the majority of Iraqi's that the most radical elements of their society come to power.

We are not the "great white father", this is true, but in an age where international terrorism is a reality we do have a right to protect ourselves - and a failed state or radical fundamentalist theocracy sitting on top of the world's 2nd largest oil reserve is not a good option. Especially when Al-Sadr has come out in support of avowed terrorist organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mari333]

19. the whole thing is a tragedy. all of it.

kids from small towns in the US who are being sent over damaged and broken, and people in Iraq who want us to leave.

all of us, living in horror, and the Bush/Cheney group gets away with murder.
and they are using your tax money to do it.
and our children.

[realdeal22k]

21. I agree with you

I'm afraid we'll be there a long time. Look at Kosovo...we are still there and may be there a long time too. I don't understand why were are in either location risking our children's lives.

[IndianaGreen]

23. If we pull the troops out ASAP, we won't sink further into the quagmire

The Democratic Party should adopt a Total Iraq Withdrawal plank in the 2004 platform. Make peace and troop withdrawal official goals of the Democratic Party. Anything less than that will only result in turning the Iraq War into a Democratic war, and cost more lives with no victory in sight.

[Dhalgren]

43. I completely agree, IG,

every day that we stay compounds our crimes and Iraqi suffering. We should support the new Iraqi government as much as THEY allow and make total reparations for all the damage we have done.

[mistertrickster]

34. Actually, it was under Saddam when women COULDN'T wear

the full veil. Now they have the "freedom" to be ordered around by their patriarchal religion.

Of course, some of them choose to wear the veil. Some of our military choose to fight in Iraq too.

Indoctrination works, don't kid yourself.

[TankLV]

45. I wonder if Versache (sp?) knows about this hot fashion statement?!

We are soooo screwed.

Bunkerboy and his gang of thugs got us into this, and it is us who will pay the price while bunkerboy and his gang of thugs and hit men mercenaries rake in the bucks.

Disgusting.

[Mari333]

7. The morons in the WH wont bring the troops home

if they do. With Michael right outside of Baghdad, I wont even show this article to my husband today, he has been crying all day and its just too fucking much.
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com
the only people that can demand the troops come home is the American people.
so far, they are not being affected by this , and have no stake in it, and since only our kid and 130,000 other FUBAR kids are over there, its not that urgent for other people.
Its urgent for us.

[number6]

12. yea , its going to get real bad, then even worse.

:scared: :nuke: :(
Paul Bremer = :dunce:

[mhr]

3. Shades Of China - Sure Hope Their Is Video Of This

GW Bush - Crushing Iraqis to save them.

In reality, crushing Iraqis to dominate and control them!

[MikeG]

4. These news stories are all wrong - they're delivering bouqets.

Cheney can't be wrong, can he? He seemed so sure. No, he HAS to be right.

[SpiralHawk]

5. "throwing themselves at tanks" ?!? Oh - Oh

That's not good. Mass insanity. Building to a fever pitch in a war built on lies.

What hath George aWol Bush wrought?

[Zhade]

8. Utter Hell, that's what!

That fucking traitor has caused how many thousands to die so far? And how many more are going to die?

I can't even type the rest of what I'm thinking, or I'd wind up in Guantanamo! :grr:

[theHandpuppet]

29. Can we say...

Tiananmen Square, everyone?

[0007]

10. Bring the troops home for Christ sake!

This is getting out of control.

[Voltaire99]

49. Amen, brother. (n/t)

[daleo]

11. Remember Tienanmen Square

There is famous footage there of a fellow who tried to 'throw himself at a tank'. But that tank driver didn't cooperate and run him over (not that day anyway). I suppose the Chinese government would have claimed that the gentleman in question threw himself under a tank, had the driver continued forward, and had there been no video of the event. I wonder what really happened in this case in Baghdad.

[IndianaGreen]

17. Remember the Russian tanks in Prague in 1968

or in Budapest in 1956?

Who is the foreign oppressor now?

[daleo]

20. I am sure that oppressive governments and invaders have been claiming

That people go around "throwing themselves under tanks" for as long as there have been tanks and oppressive governments. The Romans probably claimed that the Gauls were just "throwing themselves under chariots".

[happyslug]

48. The Unit involved did not want to suppress the students

I was doing a paper at the time about exports controls to China, one of the things I found out was that Chinese's units tended to be tied in with certain politician's (and areas of China). The Chinese People's Liberation army (PAL) is NOT organized like the US Army (The US Army is raised on a National Level than assigned to each unit) but more like the United States National Guard (The Units are raised locally and the Officers are also tiled in with local politician's and where those politician's were in the national Political System).

The unit where the student stood in the way of the Tank was form a unit which was tied in with a politician who supported the students. Thus when ordered to move against the Students the Troopers were reluctant at best. A few days later Another unit of the PAL arrived in Beijing and it was THAT unit the suppressed the Students (The Second Units Politician wanted the students suppressed and set his unit to do so).

Just some back ground on the Suppression of the Student movement in China and WHY the Red Chinese have been so adamant on suppressing all types of revolt ever since. The PAL is NOT a reliable means of Suppression and the Red Chinese Leadership knows it. Thus dissent can not be tolerated least part (or all) of the PAL decide to go with the reformers. Thus since 1989 ALL dissent has been suppressed no matter how benign it appears. China is ready for a Revolution and the leadership knows it, the Leadership is hoping it can stay in power as long as possible.

My point here is China in 1989 is NOT Iraq in 2004. Our Troops will suppress any opposition (Unlike the PLA which had to rely on only certain units). On the other hand the Iraqi Police is like the PLA, more in sympathy with the resistance than with the US.

[Just Me]

25. They had better quickly engage in the art of "appeasement"!!!

Those multi-million dollar US corporations better start giving decent paying jobs to those people they are ALLEGEDLY liberating and involve all these people in their own nation-building instead of paying a grand per day as they jump in on the profiteering from this administration's freakin' delusions!!! Excuse me, as I vomit due to this administration's freakin' delusions and profiteering and exploitation of their political office!!!

[markses]

26. Oh, so these are the RADICAL Shi'a

As opposed to the Sunnis, who are "Saddam lovers," and especially to the normal, USA loving Shi'a.

Maybe we'll have a classification system as follows:

Sunni (Bad)
Shi'a Radical (Bad)
Kooky Kurds (Bad)
Shi'a Without Modifier (Good)
Kurds Without Modifier (Good)


Meanwhile, you can hear it much more dictinctly now: Tick tock Tick tock Tick tock...This thing is spiralling out of control, quickly.

[NNN0LHI]

27. Try and picture Vietnam on steroids n/t

[m-jean03]

31. Yes, and with a people who tend to hold grudges

for 5 generations...

edit -- I don't mean to this as a blanket statement about all Iraqi people. Just that the culture traditionally has this aspect.

[Joanne98]

38. Or 800 years. Ancestor worship is impossible to defeat.

Whose stupid idea was this anyway? Oh I forgot.

[saigon68]

42. Its IRAQ-NAM

A place where the Grim Reaper comes out to play every day.

A place where DEATH stalks,

The Innocent, The Guilty, the Careless and the Unlucky.

Hey Mr. "Contractor" ?? Which ONE are you TODAY ????

[rfkrocks]

28. Inevitable failure-our troops in major tight spot

All groups in country are jockeying for position in the new government-whether it is civil war or not we will find out by 6/30. These groups want to control their country and our mere 100,000 will be a speed bump if the entire south erupts-apparently our friendly neighborhood moronic Bushco failed to see what his father's administration so rightly understood-you need 300,000 troops at least to control the country-probably more like 500,000-but we are also committed in Kabul as well-Bushco can't draft without major us uprising against the war-what a disaster-we just lit a match in the gasoline can of the middle east-what are the Kurds going to do if the south goes to armed combat? Then that brings the turks in as well-what then? Some things can go right in Iraq but the odds are stacked heavily against us. There could even be a civil war among the Shia leading to Iranian military action (backed by a Pakistani nuke?)-man oh man what a disaster

[seg4527]

30. You mean they didn't want us to liberate their newspaper?

emo

[Jackpine Radical]

33. What's the difference between throwing yourself in front of

a Chinese tank and throwing yourself in front of an American tank?

The Chinese tank driver will probably stop.

&imgrefurl=http://duke.usask.ca/~lowey/heros/&h=231&w=350&sz=38&tbnid=o1_hex-fe7gJ:&tbnh=76&tbnw=115&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTiananmen%2BSquare%2Btank%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8

some supporters of radical leader Moqtada Sadr threw themselves at the US tanks and a police officer said at least two of the demonstrators had been crushed.

[Joanne98]

36. I think the Sunnis and Shiite are secretly conspiring.........

The Sunnis are attacking and the Shiite are protesting. It doesn't look like they hate each other at all to me. This is a bunch of BS. If they are working together, this whole thing is going to blow up in our faces. Even if some Iraqi people are glad we're there (or so they say) how do we know their not just jerking us around. This whole thing is beginning to smell really bad. It's beginning to smell like " a plan". This is looking more and more organized. I hope we don't have faith-based military brains in charge of this. What a fucking mess.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Voltaire99]

51. The best laid plans of Rice and men

Yes, as you say, Nick, even Saddam ultimately would have been preferable to this madness.

All signs point to our extreme right having believed its own think tanks' fantasies: Iraq was to have erupted in joyous spontaneous "democracy" (with on-the-spot conversions to the creeds of Billy Graham and Coca-Cola), thus easing the installation of western-friendly hoodlums like Chalabi, who would allow Iraqi women to show their faces in return for fueling our SUVs for free. A fair trade, no? Alas, it has come to throwing oneself under U.S. tanks instead.

[neverforget]

40. It's going to be long HOT summer in Iraq with lots of violent

bouquet and rose throwing at the benevolent US occupiers...

[TankLV]

44. "...and all Shiite will break out..."

nt

[riverwalker]

50. US tanks crush protesters

thats the headline here
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1080574.htm

[minkyboodle]

52. the American media blackout on this is incredible

Sometimes I feel like I'm living in windowless room with the American press. Thank god for DU and the internet...
Scott