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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 06:47 AM
Original message
Chavez opens his palace to Venezuelan (families made) homeless (by recent rains)
Source: Reuters

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has invited 25 families made homeless by recent torential* rains to stay temporarily at the Miraflores presidential palace in Caracas.

On Wednesday (December 1), Chavez said on state TV that he hopes the families will stay until they are able to return to their “permanent homes.”

More than a dozen people have died and thousands have been forced from their houses after weeks of downpours in Venezuela that have caused flooding and mudslides.

Relief shelters, already in bad shape, have grown overcrowded and community leaders like Marbella Pimental say they need more help.

Read more: http://www.theweathernetwork.com/news/storm_watch_stories3&stormfile=chavez_opens_his_palace_to_v_011210



This has hardly had any coverage, I just heard about it as a passing comment on Al Jazeera English when they briefly discussed the flooding in Venezuela.

* I had to misspell it on purpose as my ISP has blocked any of their customers from being able to use the t o r r e n t word, and I just found out any words related to it.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. while that's nice and everything, I wonder why a self-proclaimed "socialist"
needs a "palace"

Just sayin'...
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. 1) it is not a "palace" (i've been there and seen it)
Edited on Thu Dec-02-10 07:37 AM by ret5hd
it is the venezuealan "White House" (but smaller). The fence (about 6 foot high) is maybe 20-30 feet from the walls of the structure, just around the corner from Bolivar Plaza. A very modest structure for the seat of gov't in my opinion.

2) I believe the term "palace" is used in many countries for the official reisidences of their head of state.

3) For a brief look at the "palace", see here from about 1:30 to 1:40 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46mAY_GhPS8
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. Great to see that 1st hand video, and glad to also spot the Venezulean "organopónicos"
(urban organic gardens) which have been so widely enjoyed. Very cool.

I found a photo of a side of the "palace" which seems to whip up some rightists into a froth. Apparently if the people elect a socialist president, that president should, according to US rightists, go find a tool shed somewhere, instead of using the accomodations traditionally used by ALL their predecessors!

http://www.blatantworld.com.nyud.net:8090/240_pic/miraflores_palace_in_caracas.jpg http://s3.images.com.nyud.net:8090/huge.71.356025.JPG

http://cache.daylife.com.nyud.net:8090/imageserve/0g8tgqO0Q58gR/610x.jpg

Argentina's President Cristina Fernández. That "palace" is
right in the middle of a very busy area, isn't it? Crowded!
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. You mean something like this...?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Now you're talking! When can he move in?
Edited on Thu Dec-02-10 11:35 AM by Judi Lynn
On edit, now that I study it, a guy like Hugo Chavez just might start feeling he's better than others, if he gets some place like that. My god, it's even got a roof. Who does he think he is?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. I needed to find still photos of Venezuela's new organic urban gardens
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
molly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. ixion
Do you suppose it is like our WH? Where the president lives?

See South of the Border. Hugo Chavez grew up poor. He didn't forget.
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AlphaCentauri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Wonder why capitalist imply all socialist have to be poor
they need an office of course
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Doesn't it just kill you? The dipsticks seem to think they should work out of a broom closet
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I think it's a pointed remark addressing the inequalities
Socialists (aka communists) do tend to morph into a new ruling class. When the USSR fell, the truth about the life of luxury enjoyed by communist party officials was revealed. They had huge estates in the country side, lived with maids, gardeners, and lots of guards, the areas where these estates were located had excellent roads and services, and they enjoyed a lot of perks. And the system had evolved to give their children many advantages, such as access to the better schools, sports centers, and of course special stores to get clothes and food.

I suspect Venezuela may be headed in the same direction, because no other country has been able to avoid this trap. The party nomenklatura will live well, as will the senior military, security service leadership, bureaucrats with special skills, sports figures, and artists. The others will live in substandard conditions. So in the end, there's little change, one ruling class is substituted by a different ruling class.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
38. Yeah, I caught that too
"I thought you all had long hair, smoked pot, wore sandals and lived on the streets."

No, but if you get your way, we may have to.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. His residence was inherited from previous holders of the office. He also needs security.
Edited on Thu Dec-02-10 10:41 AM by Turborama
A lot of security.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. Don't strain yourself
just sayin'
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. Well, I think you're missing the point
If any President, Governor or Congressman ever opened their 'palace' to anyone displaced by rains, they would be hailed a hero

Chavez does it and you call on him how hypocritical he is

Maybe, just maybe, Capitalist Oligarchy is not the best system, no?
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. I found this too
(Reuters) - Venezuelan socialist leader Hugo Chavez has invited 25 families made homeless by recent torrential rains to stay temporarily at the Miraflores presidential palace in Caracas.

More than a dozen people have died and thousands have been forced from their houses after weeks of downpours in Venezuela that have caused flooding and mudslides.

Chavez, who is criticized for failing to provide more new housing during his 11 years in office but blames the problem on his free-market predecessors, said he would open his spacious, whitewashed palace in downtown Caracas to some of the victims.

Security staff would give up some of their quarters, and he would provide an office, Chavez said late on Sunday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AS2MN20101129

Why would anyone block torrential ?

:hi:
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. Thanks, I just found this in the NYT as well...
Chávez Opens His Palace to Flood Victims

By SIMON ROMERO
Published: December 1, 2010

CARACAS, Venezuela — Miraflores Palace, designed in the 1880s by an Italian count for one of Venezuela’s 19th-century dictators, has been home to presidents here for more than a century. In recent years, it has welcomed a lively medley of foreign leaders, including Presidents Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran and Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva of Brazil.

But on Wednesday, Venezuela’s president, Hugo Chávez, opened the doors of the neoclassical building to a new set of residents: flood victims.

Appearing on state television at Miraflores clad in an olive drab military uniform, Mr. Chávez welcomed 26 families who had been displaced by torrential rains in recent weeks. The rainfall has caused flooding and landslides that have killed 25 people and forced more than 30,000 Venezuelans to flee, civil defense officials said.

“I have a proposal for you families: stay here for a year,” the president told the refugees who became his housemates on Wednesday. He then led them on a brief tour of a palace wing where beds and cribs had been set up next to a barbershop. “When you leave,” he said, “it will be to an apartment of your own.”

Full article: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/02/world/americas/02venez.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
(A version of this article appeared in print on December 2, 2010, on page A10 of the New York edition.)



The tor(r)ent-ial thing is because of my ISP banning their customers from downloading and sharing files because someone here downloaded something from the UK and a complaint was made to them. They have even blocked Google UK and I just found out today they have blocked The Independent's website, which was the final straw for me and I am changing for another ISP when my subscription runs out next week. As Muriel said so eloquently... :banghead:


:hi:
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social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
5. A sounder solution is needed
This is a nice gesture, good propaganda move - they'll move the refugees to the security quarters, and the security personnel will have to make do somewhere else for a while. But longer term there's a need to be better prepared for disasters, because the country is likely to have a large earthquake sooner or later, and there's a lot of substandard housing perched on very steep hillsides. The substandard housing isn't built to any reasonable code, and they tend to collapse down the hill when it rains a lot.

I saw a post above where it says the government blames private industry for not building enough housing. That's a bit silly, private builders are happy to build as much as they can, as long as they can make a profit. And if the government wants houses built, it can provide loans or have the houses built. But they have been in power for 10 years, and haven't put emphasis on this problem. They would do a lot better if they worked on high quality and reliable public transport infrastructure to and from the large cities - light rail, bus lanes on roads - so people can move to better ground and also get to work on time.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
7. Good for him
and weird about an ISP blocking anything with 'tor(r)ent' in. :banghead:
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era veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
8. Good for you Hugo
Still wish you'd retire.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
9. Do you think this should have more coverage?
I don't see why. I think it's good he has done this, but I'm not sure it ranks all that high. It's an aside to a Venezuelan weather story.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I agree the storm is the story
Particularly the fate of those who won't be shacking up with Chavez. His actions here were a PR move. Nothing wrong with that, but it ain't big news either.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. Yes.
Venezuela has just had the “http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/5826">Heaviest Rains in Over 40 Years" and there's been hardly any coverage of it. One of the things I do is research the growth in catastrophes that are happening around the world.

Also, I've never heard of the president of a country giving refuge in their residence to victims of a natural disaster. You might think it's just an aside, I think it's part of the story.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. It's apparently of no importance that when it rains, those poor people who cling to the hills
surrounding the city, just as it is throughout the Americas, are living in houses often without firm foundations, and those houses are swept right down the mountainside. It's a very old story that countless people can be instantly killed, or left homeless in the twinkling of an eye during a hard rainstorm.

As they are built, often without adequate concrete foundations, they are often lost quickly. They have clung to the hillsides for ages while the wealthy stake out the spaces in the level ground in which to live for themselves, and the poor perch on the hillside, often without adequate sewers, running water, electricity, etc. Throughout the Americas.

Strict caste system, too, isn't it?

I appreciate the fact you were able to get some real news here, rather than the daily ration of the corporate smears we've learned to expect, also an old, OLD pattern going back decades and decades whenever a "leftist" has dared to run for office in Latin America, and been elected. That just isn't acceptable in a "democracy" like ours, is it?

It's apparently a sin for Latin Americans to elect someone the US right wing interests and government don't like. ####ing hideous.

Looking for a photo of the houses on the hillside, I just came across this interesting view of a campaign rally for Hugo Chavez in 2006. Notice the red in the streets comes from the red t-shirts worn by Chavez supporters. Quite a crowd!

please click on links for photos:

http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/&_/images7/venezuela/venezuela_president_election_2006.jpe

http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/&_/images7/venezuela/closing_campaign_3.jpe

Both Reuters photos.

Images from hillside aftermaths of heavy rains in Caracas:

http://news.bbc.co.uk.nyud.net:8090/olmedia/565000/images/_568720_suitcase300.jpg http://news.bbc.co.uk.nyud.net:8090/olmedia/565000/images/_568720_umbrella300.jpg http://news.bbc.co.uk.nyud.net:8090/olmedia/565000/images/_568720_mudslides300.jpg http://news.bbc.co.uk.nyud.net:8090/olmedia/565000/images/_568720_women300.jpg http://news.bbc.co.uk.nyud.net:8090/olmedia/570000/images/_571928_ruins300.jpg

ETC.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. Translate to Obama/White House, and asked yourself: Is this news? Should this get good coverage?
...although the corpo-fascist press might well ignore it, even if it was Obama/White House, since the corpo-fascist press serves our multinational corporate/war profiteer rulers, and their Wall Street animals, and those powers DON'T WANT government to serve the poor majority, and DON'T WANT anyone to get THE IDEA that it SHOULD--"greed is good," remember, and the poor cause their own poverty--and they furthermore have a thing against Obama, part of their narrative that "liberals" caused the Bushwhack Depression, preliminary to Diebolding another Bushwhack asshole team into the White House in 2012, so they really and truly might ignore it, even if Obama invited the homeless into the White House, or would at least start portraying him as a little crazy and unstable and on meds.

The thing is that presidents have a lot of power as symbols. It's kind of the old monarchy syndrome but it can't be avoided, even by socialists. It seems to be in human DNA to be inspired by leaders, to be open to suggestions as to behavior, from the powerful, so it is important what presidents and other kinds of leaders do. We humans have a malleable, imprintable aspect to our natures. We can sometimes be led into evil, and, of course, we can sometimes be led into good, by those with power or with leadership qualities. Our presidency has become so fetishistic and monarchical that literally everything those inhabiting the White House do--the dishes they use, what they eat, the entertainment they choose, whom they invite, Laura Bush's dumpy clothes, Michele's flair, Michele's veggie garden, Bush Jr and his "ranch"--ripple through society as examples of what others should do or aspire to. Thomas Jefferson used to play on the floor with his children and random guests would just freely drop in on these family antics in the White House, with no ceremony and no security. Can you imagine that happening today? We have lost so much of what made us a revolutionary country and an inspiration to the world!

Anyway, even democrats with a small d, like Jefferson, and socialists like Hugo Chavez, are aware of and use their symbolic value. Horrible leaders like Bush Jr make torturing prisoners okay and slaughtering a hundred thousand innocent people to steal their oil. Good leaders try to set good example--for instance, encouraging civility and openness and lawfulness.

Probably most Americans don't know this, but Chavez has not violated a single provision of the Venezuelan constitution, has broken not a single law and has done absolutely nothing that is not within his rights and his mandate as president. He is a super-scrupulously lawful president! For instance, when the leftist mayor of Caracas wanted to confiscate some downtown golf courses/country clubs, to build housing for the poor, the Chavez government nixed the idea BECAUSE THE CONSTITUTION PROTECTS PRIVATE PROPERTY. Some scofflaw businesses have been confiscated--for instance, banks that were endangering their depositors with illegal practices, or food hoarders/price manipulators--but, well, that's the law! If you want to do business in Venezuela, you have to obey the laws written by legislators, and implemented by a president, all of whom have been elected in honest, aboveboard, transparent elections. The Chavistas don't have a lot of respect for multinational monsters like Exxon Mobil that try to bully them and rob Venezuela. But that's a wholenother story. We should all be de-chartering and dismantling these godawful, transglobal corporate powermongers. They have no rights other than what we, as a sovereign people, give them.

To get back to Chavez inviting the flood victims into Miraflores Palace (Venezuela's White House), frankly it surprises me that Rotters even reported it. They have been very bad on Chavez and the Latin American Left--as have all of our corpo-fascist 'news' organizations, bar none. (Even the BBC has been shockingly bad--blatantly biased, propagandistic, pushing rightwing "think tank" talking points, etc.) And I will be floored if anybody picks up this little item from Rotters. They would not only slander Obama as "crazy" and "unstable" if he did it, and suppress it, if they could get away with it, they don't want any other presidents setting this kind of example, anywhere. But Rotters probably reported it in order to emphasize the housing problem in Caracas and set up the rightwing "talking point" that barrio housing still slides off the hills around Caracas in heavy rains, and, hey, the socialists "haven't done anything about it!"

It's kind of interesting that one of our rightwing, anti-Chavez DUers, above, says just that--describes this gesture as "nice" then blames Chavez for not solving the housing problem in Caracas. Imagine the screams of the rightwing nutballs in Venezuela, echoing throughout our corpo-fascist press, if the Chavez government HAD started confiscating private property to house the poor! Can't you just hear it?

And of course it was rightwing/"free trade" governments, who lived off the oil, and inflicted horrendously bad policy on Venezuela, who caused this problem in the first place, by allowing rich landowners to kick the poor peasant farmers off their farms, often brutally, creating the migration of millions of poor people into urban squalor, where they couldn't feed their families, let alone their communities, and where they faced joblessness with no education and no training. The slums of Caracas were created by the rich and the fascist. They meanwhile encouraged the creation of a rich urban elite, also living off the oil, and addicted to imported goods. The problems facing the Chavez government have been consequently enormous--including grave poverty, illiteracy, lack of access to education and training, poor nutrition, no health care, shanty housing, loss of farming knowledge and skills, the rich owning most of the land and letting it lie fallow, Exxon Mobil grabbing 90% of the oil profits with only 10% going to Venezuela and most of that raked off by the rich, and on and on and on.

And, of course, the moment the Chavez government began trying to DO SOMETHING about these massive problems, the rightwing perpetrated a coup d'etat and suspended the Constitution, the courts, the National Assembly and all civil rights. The people themselves peacefully defeated this coup--by pouring out of their hovels and surrounding Miraflores Palace--but it nevertheless rocked the country, making planning and progress more difficult. Then came the oil bosses' lockout, whereby the multinational oil giants tried to cripple and destroy Venezuela's economy. Then the USAID-funded recall election of 2004 (which Chavez won, hands down)--draining yet more time, energy and resources that would have gone into governing and solving problems. And the non-stop plotting and enmity of the United States government, in cahoots with the rightwing, who wanted their oil cash cow back. Every kind of obstacle to progress, to planning, to housing, feeding and educating the poor was placed in the Chavez government's path, by the very people who now lambast the Chavez government for not solving every problem yesterday.

And all this time--through all of these obstacles--the Chavez government was nevertheless cutting poverty IN HALF and extreme poverty by over 70%, wiping out illiteracy, providing health care to millions of people who never had it before, vastly increasing educational opportunity, reorganizing food distribution and food costs to the poor, building many news schools, community health clinics and other infrastructure, creating and implementing a well thought out land reform program, providing jobs, supporting small businesses and co-ops, renegotiating the oil contracts to give Venezuelan and its social programs a much better deal and generating an astonishing economic growth rate of 10%, over a five year period (2003 to 2008), with the most growth in the private sector, not including oil!

Venezuela just earned designation as "the most equal country in Latin America," on income distribution, from the UN Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean.

They also have a housing program--building low cost housing for the poor. But they have had to deal with some uncooperative construction and materials companies, finding and acquiring land without violating the Constitution, and other such problems, as well as the fact that the barrios are now established communities, and you don't just bulldoze communities and move people elsewhere. You have to get their consent. You have to arrange transportation, access to jobs and schools and so on. And do you just neglect them in the meantime? If you are a good government, you have to provide schools, health care, street lighting, jobs, incomes, adult re-training, access to food and other goods, etc., where they live. I've seen photos and documentaries on the Chavez government's low cost housing projects. I don't know the stats on this, but they ARE, IN FACT, addressing this problem, and all the other problems that prior governments neglected out of greed and malfeasance.

The Bushwhack-induced Depression slowed things down (mainly because the price of oil plummeted), but Venezuela is now crawling back into a growth mode. They headed into the Bushwhack-induced Depression with high cash reserves, low unemployment and other good conditions. They will be all right. And if they are not, and if Venezuelans blame Chavez for it, they have a remedy that we can no longer count on: voting. (Venezuela's election system is far, FAR more transparent than our own--another accomplishment of the Chavez government that you will never hear about in our corpo-fascist press.)

Meanwhile, if you yourself are well-off, well-fed and have a roof over your head, think about sharing some of your comfort with those who have nothing. Even if you think "greed is good" and the poor cause their own poverty, a little kindness might mean that there will be a little kindness for YOU, if you ever "fall between the cracks." And do try to give Chavez a little credit for making this point. That's what leaders should be doing.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Thanks for taking the time to share this information. n/t
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. I apologize to the New York Slimes! (heh-heh) They printed the story!
But the point of the story isn't the catastrophic rains and it isn't Chavez setting a good example by personally housing the homeless. The point of the story, is, as always, to CRITICIZE Chavez, no matter what he does--and to provide an opportunity for rightwing assholes to spout off.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/02/world/americas/02venez.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss

Simon Romero--the New York Slimes' main slimebag reporter for Latin America--does this time and again. NOT ONE SINGLE STORY has he written about the Chavez government cutting poverty BY HALF and extreme poverty by over 70%, or creating THE MOST EQUAL COUNTRY IN LATIN AMERICA, or any other of the Chavez's government's very significant accomplishments. ALWAYS negative, ALL the time, just like the rest of our so-called 'new' organizations.

It is appalling.
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RZM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. I don't think the title of the OP is the real story here
As I sad previously. I think it's an aside to the real story, which is the terrible effects of the recent rains in Venezuela. 25 families is a nice gesture, but it's still only 25 families. It's a PR move -- which is fine, but I'm not about to say that makes him a great leader -- it is what it is, nothing more or less.

No offense here, but your post could have been written by Chavez himself. There's not a single negative thing in there -- not one point of criticism at all. Perhaps you have no criticisms of his domestic policies? I don't have enough information on or interest in domestic Venezuelan politics to have much of an opinion either way. From what I know, his election was indeed free and fair and I can see why he enjoys solid support. Were I a Venezuelan, I imagine I would support him as well.

I'm less impressed by his foreign stances, which seem to me to be calculated to take advantage of existing anti-Western and particularly anti-American sentiments and channel that political energy in his direction for his own benefit. That's nothing new of course -- leaders around the world do it all the time, sometimes with private winks at us to boot. Chavez cultivates a high profile for himself on the international stage and engages in high-octane rhetoric, so it's natural that he's going to rub some people the wrong way. I suspect this accounts to a large degree for the negative tone of much Chavez reporting.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
20. K & R nt
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
25. Bravo, Hugo!
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
28. What a dick!
:sarcasm:
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. !
:spank:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
30. For a stroll down memory lane, recall what Bush's ambassador did in HIS Venezuelan palace
when he was living in Caracas:
US Ambassador to Venezuela Makes Ass of Self
author: Arrecha

United States Ambassador to Venezuela, Charles Shapiro, hosted a party in which used "freedom of expression" as an excuse to ridicule President Chavez and to express a desire for "better relations" between Venezuela and the government of George W. Bush.


Last Tuesday, the United States Ambassador Charles Shapiro hosted a party at his residence. The occasion of the gathering was to commemorate "World Freedom of Expression Day." Venezuelan corporate media chiefs, journalism associations and unions, ambassadors, the director of the Unesco, and other personalities were also invited.

As part of the entertainment, Charles Shapiro invited a comedian to divert his guests. The show began with the humorist dressed up as a Marta Colomina (a well-known anti-Chavez journalist) holding a puppet of Chavez—criticizing his government and ridiculing the president.

I found it very cynical that the next day, Shapiro apologized for the show, when witness said that he was applauding vigorously after the show. Shapiro, a puppet himself, said that the embassy did not know in advance the kind of show that they were getting. Meanwhile, the comedian expressed in oneo of the newspapers, that he actually met with embassy members in advance to discuss his performance at Mr. Shapiro's party.
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/05/264864.shtml

Stay classy, Shapiro! Make us proud.

Following, Venezuela army group tells U.S. ambassador to stop meddling
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/pipermail/rad-green/2003-January/006275.html

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1292946
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
31. Curious about how the US embassy in Caracas looks?
Edited on Thu Dec-02-10 01:53 PM by Judi Lynn
http://www.petroleumworld.com.nyud.net:8090/imagesjul2004/usembassyccs.jpg
http://www.lera.com.nyud.net:8090/pimg/usembassyvenezuela/5857875_large.jpg

http://www.lera.com.nyud.net:8090/pimg/usembassyvenezuela/1113780_large.jpg

"U.S. Embassy, Caracas

Caracas, Venezuela

This project is a 100,000-sf (9,000-sm), five-story building recessed into the bedrock of
the Andean foothills. Its position, upon a promontory formed by two plateaus, allows for
panoramic views of the city below."
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Looks nice!
Your point?
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
33. So Chavez has PR like everyone else nt.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. It would be a shame if Venezuela didn't. The UN Economic Commision
named it the most equal country in income distribution in the region.

"In addition, Venezuela has the most equal distribution of wealth in Latin America, according to the Gini coefficient measurement used by the United Nations Economic Commission for Latin America (CEPAL). Venezuela’s Gini coefficient is .412, an improvement from 1998, when it was .498."

http://www.trinicenter.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2245

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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. The USSR had very equal wealth distribution...
but it doesn't automatically mean that things are hunky dory. You can have everyone be equally poor. Equal wealth distribution doesn't equal freedom of press, freedom to associate, a non-corrupt government, etc. etc.

A PR stunt doesn't really impress me, no matter the government that is doing it.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Cherry picking on your part. Venezuela has slashed poverty
by half since 2006 and extreme poverty by 3/4.

Seriously, as an American, do you really believe you are a good judge of a free press, of freedom to associate and of a non-corrupt government?

That's amusing. Our whole corporate media is one ongoing PR stunt.
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-10 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. My status as an American has nothing to do...
with how I judge such things as freedom of the press etc. I don't understand why you can never stick with the subject of Venezuela. I never said the US is perfect, I said I'm not impressed with PR stunts no matter what government is doing it. I never said that Venezuela is a horrible dictatorship, only that wealth distribution alone doesn't tell you everything. I think of all the demagouges out there, Chavez is one of the least harmful. But Chavez is a practical politician. He's like Obama in this sense. A true progressive cannot stand many of the policies Obama has settled for, just as a true progressive cannot ignore the friendships Chavez has with some rather unprogressive characters around the world. It isn't a judgment call, just a reality check that Chavez is a politician first, ideologue second.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
35. Looks as if the headline writers were looking for an unusual slant for the flood story:
Edited on Thu Dec-02-10 04:57 PM by Judi Lynn
Venezuelan flood victims can stay at presidential palace, says Hugo Chávez
President urges those at risk from further rain to leave homes as death toll from floods and mudslides reaches 25
Associated Press
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 2 December 2010 09.17 GMT

Dozens of Venezuelans left homeless by torrential rain can remain at the presidential palace until the government finds them new homes, the country's president, Hugo Chávez, said today. The news came as the death toll from flooding and mudslides reached 25.

~snip~
Authorities confirmed four more deaths in Caracas today, bringing the toll from flooding and mudslides to at least 25. About 5,000 people have lost their homes, prompting Chávez to urge those in high-risk areas to move to government shelters until the rains subside. Chávez told dozens of flood victims at the presidential palace that they could remain there until they had new homes.

The president, a former paratroop commander, also told displaced Venezuelans at one shelter that he would order buildings inside Tiuna Fort, the nation's military nerve centre, to be vacated so the homeless could live there temporarily if necessary.

The defence minister, Carlos Mata Figueroa, said more than 33,000 people had been moved to 259 shelters as a precaution.

More:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/02/venezuela-flood-victims-hugo-chavez

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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
39. what a dictator
:sarcasm:
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name not needed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
43. He's a bit authoritarian for my liking, but I really can't find fault in this.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
44. "..homeless by recent torential rains to stay temporarily at the Miraflores presidential palace .."
....if Obama was a compassionate Dem and Progressive, he'd open the White House to our homeless too....temporarily, at least until unemployment drops to 5%....
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