Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Update from Yahoo: Rioting Across Iraq Kills Nearly 60

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
Bhaisahab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 02:58 AM
Original message
Update from Yahoo: Rioting Across Iraq Kills Nearly 60
NAJAF, Iraq - Supporters of an anti-American Shiite Muslim cleric rioted in Baghdad and four other Iraqi cities, sparking fighting that killed at least 50 Iraqis, eight U.S. troops and a Salvadoran soldier, in the worst unrest since the spasm of looting and arson immediately after the fall of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites).


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/iraq
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ok and the BBC just termed the operations in
Fallujah as "Pacification Operations," I shit you not.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Accomplices to murder.
GUILTY as charged.
CNN should be taken to the world court
to face their part in enabling and perpetuating
war crimes.

BHN
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Well BBC used the term atributed to the Americans
And my blood ran cold.

Is General Westmoreland donig the Five O'Clock Follies today from Saigon? And will anybody ask him about Tet and the events on the holy city of Quay? Sorry wrong war...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 03:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. FUCKITY_FUCK_FUCK_FUCK!
Sorry to be so crass, but my GOD!
Where will this end?
FUBAR
FUBAR
FUBAR!
BHN
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. In the Republicans Realm, Madness Rules
Insane, we are Insane
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. What word is beyond insane?
We have crossed the line of insane-
what word can possibly describe it?
BHN
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
80. Loloitis gone Ebolaesque, airborne contigion.
A lolo is a person unable to comprehend complex issues..... "challenged"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 03:24 AM
Response to Original message
7. In more good news...
...Bremer has declared Sadr an "outlaw". Wow, that Bremer, man really knows how to pacify them, don't he?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 03:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. He is walking into it faster than you understand
And I maen it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Capt_Nemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Hei, Ahmed Chalabi, how are you?
Edited on Mon Apr-05-04 04:17 AM by Capt_Nemo
nice to hear from you, and welcome to DU!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laruemtt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
44. got confused for a minute there
"Tyrants who wish to control people by religious edict, not rule of law. They are not pluralists and they do not favor political and economic freedom, individual rights and democracy. But I suspect neither do you." - thought you were talking about bushco for a minute there.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. You sure expended a lot of energy...
...to do that lil' jig.

a) I can't stand religious fundamentalists, I think they are all nuts, regardless their nation of origin, allegiance, or particular flavor of madness.

b) your "three cheers for the coalition" business and calling me an "enemy of freedom"... now go blow away.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
22. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
35. Proof would be nice.
I could change my profile to indicate my place of residence as Rivendell. That wouldn't make me an elf.

Wonderful prose. Do you have any way at all to back this up?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #35
58. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TinaTyson Donating Member (186 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #58
71. A link to an article would be helpful to back up your claim.
Edited on Mon Apr-05-04 10:55 AM by TinaTyson
I see a billboard. You claim it is an advertisement for slavery?

The first odd thing I notice is the english. Why is there english on it?

So I go to your directory:

http://users.wi.net/~johnh/

All kinds of stuff there. Hmmm check this out:



Hmmm a photoshopped ad of John Edwards (one of many such graphics).

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #71
74. How about that James Carville one?


That "billboard" also looks like photoshop to me. But who knows. The English text is interesting indeed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #71
77. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #71
81. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #58
83. If this billboard is real
I suspect the "me" being referred to is Allah or God if you will. However, it seems rather odd that this tiny bit of the billboard would be printed in English, and I am inclined to think it is a put-on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
39. And Viceroy Bremer is Halliburtons agent. So whats your point? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mallard Donating Member (460 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
41. Re: BS 101
"The vast majority of Iraqis, including Shiites, favor the Coalition's presence... "


Where do you get this?

Bremmer's shutting down of the paper - being an established organ of free and OPEN communication - shows his (earlier) intent to arrange these latest subjugative terms.

What he's doing is the post-wedding reception catering for Israel's surprise marriage to an impotent America on September the Eleventh.

These are the same basic operations and 'lines' drawn up over the past 55 years in occupied Palestine - and for what (?) - an ethnic exclusion zone.

We want them to 'accept' us now as overlords. It won't happen. The entire affair is a huge, deadly and all-time wasteful FAILURE!


As far as I can read it, 9/11 was the work of 'warlocks', and insofar as Paul Bremmer's duty obliges him, he might as well be a witch himself.

This cull was arranged.

The vast majority of Iraqi's DO NOT approve of the occupation!

Who the hell do you work for?


MALLARD
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #41
46. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #46
56. Dan Senor is also an Israeli-American
Edited on Mon Apr-05-04 08:08 AM by IndianaGreen
Despite his ideology, I think Dan is a dedicated public servant. His boss, Paul Bremer, is totally inept and is responsible for a lot of bad decisions, including shutting down the Shia newspaper which led to the current riots.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #56
61. Dan Senor looks like a political commissar from the USSR
Edited on Mon Apr-05-04 08:52 AM by jmcgowanjm
If I was going to find an actor for say,
Enemy within the Gates, it would be Senor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #46
64. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. So, you're calling him crazy?
Because he cited an article in mainstream news?

Reverse psychology huh? How 1970's.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. Interesting picture he looks like the 700 club's host.
So are you a reporter?

An American?

An Iraqi?

A soldier?

A civilian?

A contractor?

An agent?

What is your role that took you to Najaf Friday?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #68
70. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. Thanks for the info.
I hope you stay safe and make it home, ect.

I don't agree that we should be there in the first place
but can believe that many people are doing things for what
they believe are the right reasons.

I do remember reading that the thumbs up gesture is the
same as the middle finger gesture is here.

Also remember that under deprivations people will turn into
sycophants genuflecting for a small advantage or resource.

People may give you a warm welcome because you have the
things they need.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #72
86. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. I'm not surprised you feel that way...
it would be a dark day if even war profiters had lost zeal for their holy mission.

As for being spoiled remember this is all being done on my dollar.

Why should I care about Iraq any more than say the Congo or any other place in the world?

It is very funny that the rights of Iraqi's are the number one
concern of neo-imperialist types like yourself.

Just to the south of Iraq is Kuwait and Saudi Arabia that have
very little of the freedoms that are allegedly behind the
recolonization of Iraq and they are our long standing allies.

Good luck in your mission of "humanitarianism" I don't believe it.

I think lots of politically connected parasites are lining their
pockets with tax payer dollars as soldier act as defenders of oil
drilling empire builders instead or defending America.

Tragic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #88
90. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
sistersofmercy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #70
75. Well gee, why don't you post pictures of the flower-throwing,
waving and smiling Iraqis? Do you think it is at all possible that some of these waving, smiling Iraqis by day may be grenade-throwing opponents by night?
BTW, I won't even attempt to dispute that Al Sadr is a religious fantic but Al Sistani from my understanding has more links to the ruling mullahs of Iran and more of a following. If Al Sistani declares jihad Iraq will boil over. All of you there in Iraq, if indeed you are really there, need to come home now before the place comes to a head.
In addition, are you aware of the Iraqi cleric who had been in exile in Iran and was brought into Najaf via helicopter by the US within the first few days of this criminal war? The one that was hacked to death in front of a mosque along with his nephew for being allied with the US.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #75
89. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
53. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
54. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
82. Where do you live and what do you do?
A little fuller backstory would seem to be in order, to let people put your claims into context.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
9. Sky News UK tv reporting "Apache helicopters attacking...
Edited on Mon Apr-05-04 04:05 AM by DeepModem Mom
targets in Baghdad."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
62. This action is still continuing
Edited on Mon Apr-05-04 08:59 AM by jmcgowanjm
Reuters, 04.05.04, 6:00 AM ET

BAGHDAD - U.S. helicopters fired on targets in a mainly
Shi'ite Baghdad district amid fresh fighting with radical
Shi'ite militiamen. Reuters journalists saw two
Apache helicopters open fire in the Shuala
neighbourhood in the northwest of the capital. A U.S.
vehicle was in flames.

And Residents of Fallujah accidently found themselves under
bombardment from 1Expiditionary Marines.
Softening up their target before securing the city of
500000. A number (guess) are dead and wounded.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 05:05 AM
Response to Original message
13. OMG. This is so terrible. EIGHT AMERICANS! And for what
oil. This is so disgusting. And to think last week That bastard child of Lucifer, bu$h, was joking about WMD. God, I'm just in awe of that man's inhumanity. This is revolting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnnitaR Donating Member (958 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. And the even sicker part is that
after all this he can't get his evil little hands on the oil after all.

I hope he rots in hell for this!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. don't be too sure. there were temperature indications in a pipeline going
into kuwait that were discovered by an ex-military guy who had custom-made satellite receiving equipment and showed it to some florida news people... it was posted here months ago. all he could figure was that we were pumping enormous amounts of oil into kuwait from iraq.

if you think about it, if kuwaits reserves are gone, they could back-fill their own empty oil wells and claim it was their own oil later... a kind of oil-laundering.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnnitaR Donating Member (958 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. These people never cease to disgust me!
Oil-laundering... well at least all those people haven't died in vain... BushCo is still getting their precious oil. :mad:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. WELFARE!?
over 10,000 iraqi civilians are dead, 610 Americans, and that total is climbing everyday! If Bu$h was so concerned about the Iraqi's WELFARE then he would hand Iraq over to the UN peacekeepers and create some security!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Hi, justa73505!
Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay!!!

:hi:
dbt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. Freedom loving Dubya sure has some strange friends
for a freedom lover.

Uzbekistan, hailed by the White House as "our partner in the global war against terrorism," is a favoured U.S. ally and aid recipient. Secretary Rumsfeld says relations between the U.S. and Uzbekistan are "growing stronger every month."

Russians, however, have long called the communist despots who rule Soviet Central Asia the "Red Mafia" and "Red Sultans." Aptly, since these regimes combine Stalinism's extreme brutality with the Mafia's criminality, clannishness and rapacity. The Bush administration's shameful tryst with Uzbekistan shows how the faux "war on terrorism" has allowed some U.S. allies and vassals to massively abuse human rights under the banner of fighting terrorism.

Numerous rights groups - most lately Human Rights Watch - accuse the brutal totalitarian regime of Uzbekistan of being one of the world's worst abusers of human rights.

<snip>

Uzbekistan holds over 7,000 political prisoners under unspeakable conditions - more political prisoners than held in the Soviet gulag during the 1980s. Prisoners are subjected to electric torture, burning with blowtorches, boiling alive, gang rapes, acid baths, and other atrocities


http://www.smirkingchimp.com/print.php?sid=15620
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. I'm just watching the news to see what many Iraqis think about
current events. When do you think freedom loving Dubya is going to tell the President of Uzbekistan it's not nice to boil people alive?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #30
40. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #40
48. Ol' Justa must be getting his daily propaganda from the
GOP run "free press" in Iraq. :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #30
59. "Constructively engaged"
Does that include the part where they torture people by boiling them? Uzbekistan is good at that, you know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. If we don't get the UN involved then a theocracy is exactly what
will happen. When that Neanderthal Bu$h hands over the gov't to the Iraqis, do you think that those fundamentalists will vote in favor of a friendly, free democracy? NO! Nation building takes time, even Bu$h admitted that. But he wants to set up a democracy one year afterwards? The UN has the resources and personnel to secure Iraq, WE DON'T. They have the patience. WE DON'T. The UN is more welcome, many advisers have asserted that, because it represents a world opinion. It is also far more experienced at nation building, a career that Bu$h even said he wasn't planning on pursuing.

And besides that, What about China? North Korea? The dicators over there are just as brutal. Shouldn't we do something to them? Oh, no, then where would our wonderful fat cat CEO's outsource their jobs to? Plus there's no oil

Yes, Iraq was about oil. Not for the U.S. Government, but Halliburton. You know, the one that was mired in that scandal about overcharging the gov't on oil, the company Cheney was CEO of right before entering the white house.

I don't think that we should leave Iraq. We're stuck there. But we can still ask the UN to help. I guess you would be okay with sending your father, mother, son, daughter, brother, or sister to die in a war to liberate the people of North Korea, even if it didn't have any threat to America or the rest of the world at all, 'cause Iraq sure didn't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #24
76. I am a funny guy.
Edited on Mon Apr-05-04 11:11 AM by realpolitik
So let me crack a few jokes for you.

Donald Rumsfeld, shaking hands with Saddam after supplying him with chemical weapons and precursors.

Who is doing this polling? I might trust Pew, but history is replete with photos of smiling, cooperative victims.

Iraqis are not better off today than they were a year ago. That much is obvious. Those Iraqis who support the 'coalition' do so because they hope that they will get rid of or control those 'other' Iraqis.

Iraq is not a country, it is a layer cake of sects, tribes, and cultures. Iraq's future was, and is civil war. First the ottomans held these peoples in empire, then the Brits, then the Baathists, now us.
It is no more viable than Yugoslavia. This is Iraq's future with or without the coalition, because we lack the will to actually stay in Iraq as a governing entity for a generation or two.

What Iraq is, is a territory with a lot of people who do not really get along. If anything, we have gone a long way toward radicalizing a large element of what was a predominently pluralist society.

If we were there for the Iraqi people, we would have behaved quite a bit differently than we already have. We are there to screw the Saudis, pump a lot of oil to customers east and west (mostly east).

As for the venality of the UN... I find that a canard at best and projection at worst. If, by some miracle, Iraq were to reamain a single nation, it would be because the UN was able to bring pressure to bear on the Syrians, Turks, Saudis, and Iranians not just to respect Iraqi territorial boundaries and resources. Are you seriously suggesting that we will stand steadfastly by them? After the Shia's betrayal in 91', do you seriously now suggest that we are trusted?

America's passion for Iraq's self determination and civil society is notable as an exception. Where were we for the Cambodians, the Rwandans, the Congolese, and the other genocidal states like myanmar? What does Iraq have that makes them so different?

Yep, Saddam was a brutal dictator. That is generally the kind of person who holds such states together. Either he will be superceeded by a more brutal dictator, or Iraq will fall apart. Since Bush is not president for life, it will be the latter. The UN will try, but fail to hold what we leave them together.

We went into Iraq to use their oil. To steal it outright if we could, or flood the market and break OPEC if not. It sounds like you have sincere feelings for the Iraqis... so do I, one of my childhood friends was Iraqi. But you are hallucinating if you think what we are doing there right now is laying the foundations for a pluralist democracy. Iraq as a state has too much sand, blood and fire- and not enough bedrock for that at this point.

Without the UN actively involved, Kurds will be a subject people of Turkey, The Sunni Triangle will be Syrian, and the south will be gobbled up by Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Iran as soon as we leave, which is about a week after the full civil war starts.

That is the future we have doomed Iraq to, because little Caligula did not want to work with the UN and work toward a multilateral solution.
Instead he bombed, shattered, and poisoned Iraq for his own agenda.
This is the war that unilateral premption made, and the whole world accuses us rightly.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #21
38. And those are just the numbers we're given by the...
...NeoCon Ministry of Truth.

I suspect it's far worse for both us and the Iraqis...more like 30-40,000 Iraqis and 1200-1500 Americans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #18
37. "It must really suck to be both ignorant AND mad"....
...tell us all about your current mental condition, and then turn yourself in for treatment.

And what, pray tell, is "domestic administration"? Is that similar to hiring more security personnel?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #37
49. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #49
78. Ok let's take a minute and regroup
"Then there's the foreign mujahadin in country, perhaps 100,000." Where did that number come from? What are your sources?


"Furthermore, when the people become despondent the clerics rail about the 'enemies of Islam' and why their paradise is threatened and their lives suck and then they point them in the direction of anyone/anything that competes with their control over the people -like the Governing Council and the Coalition."

Is this the same Coalition that hired Halliburton to bring in thousands of Phillipino workers, instead of giving the jobs to Iraqi's? What is the un-employement rate in Iraq? last I heard it was above 50%. No wonder the populace is "despondent". And what about the Coalitions breaking down doors and hauling whole family's away in the middle of the night?

From http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/
"On a cold night in November, M., her mother, and four brothers had been sleeping when their door suddenly came crashing down during the early hours of the morning. The scene that followed was one of chaos and confusion… screaming, shouting, cursing, pushing and pulling followed. The family were all gathered into the living room and the four sons- one of them only 15- were dragged away with bags over their heads. The mother and daughter were questioned- who was the man in the picture hanging on the wall? He was M.'s father who had died 6 years ago of a stroke. You're lying, they were told- wasn't he a part of some secret underground resistance cell? M.'s mother was hysterical by then- he was her dead husband and why were they taking away her sons? What had they done? They were supporting the resistance, came the answer through the interpreter.

How were they supporting the resistance, their mother wanted to know? "You are contributing large sums of money to terrorists." The interpreter explained. The troops had received an anonymous tip that M.'s family were giving funds to support attacks on the troops.

It was useless trying to explain that the family didn't have any 'funds'- ever since two of her sons lost their jobs at a factory that had closed down after the war, the family had been living off of the little money they got from a 'kushuk' or little shop that sold cigarettes, biscuits and candy to people in the neighborhood. They barely made enough to cover the cost of food! Nothing mattered. The mother and daughter were also taken away, with bags over their heads.

Umm Hassen had been telling the story up until that moment, M. was only nodding her head in agreement and listening raptly, like it was someone else's story. She continued it from there… M. and her mother were taken to the airport for interrogation. M. remembers being in a room, with a bag over her head and bright lights above. She claimed she could see the shapes of figures through the little holes in the bag. She was made to sit on her knees, in the interrogation room while her mother was kicked and beaten to the ground." more..

Ok I've gone on long enough for one post i suppose.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 05:10 AM
Response to Original message
14. Also, Did anyone else find this worrying?
"The riots were ignited by the arrest of an aide to anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Followers of al-Sadr also took over the offices of the governor in the southern city of Basra."

THEY TOOK OVER THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE!? WTF? Basra isn't anywhere near the Sunni triangle. How the hell are we ever going to reconstruct that god-forsaken sand bar and bring our poor troops home when that jackass, bu$h, can't even secure this city.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. ummmm - they secured Basra - at LEAST three times!
.
.
.

I heard them say so !

And they "took" Baghdad almost a year ago.

I'm REALLY impressed with theis "superpower" that after dropping over 2000 TONNES of ordinance on Iraq a year ago, and with the Iraqi Military completely destroyed, that "insurgents" and "militants" can hold this "superpower" at bay . .

Doesn't matter how many Iraqis they kill, the Iraqis won't give up

I'd bet for every Iraqi they kill, they make dozens of new enemies of Iraqis that may have welcomed the US IF the US had quickly given them there OWN country back to them a year ago.

ararrrrrrrrrrrggh

(sigh)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. It's your president's ass on the line
Edited on Mon Apr-05-04 05:57 AM by JohnyCanuck
if his pet poodle at 10 Downing St. fucks up Basra. Oh wait a minute, I forgot myself there. Dumbass in the white house was installed there by Jesus so his ass is never on the line. No matter how much he fucks up, it must be what Jesus wanted. Oh well, nothing new there since his poppy's rich friends like the Bin Ladens of Saudi Arabia were always around to bail his sorry, incompetent ass out of trouble every time he sent another business of his down the toilet. Hmm, I wonder who will bail the US out of the toilet when he finishes fucking up in his current job? Why I guess that will be Joe and Jane taxpayer who'll be footing the deficit bill while the dumbass rides off into the Texas sunset. Wait, no that's not right either. I forgot he's scared of horses and can't ride like a real cowboy. He'll just have to settle for stumbling off into history as the worst fuckup of a world leader in modern history instead.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. Like the SOB's who are behind this invasion
Edited on Mon Apr-05-04 06:28 AM by JohnyCanuck
give two shits about the welfare of the Iraqi people. This whole exercise was designed to install a compliant regime in Iraq which will allow the US to have control over the region's oil and to allow the establishment of permanent US bases in the region which will be used as staging areas for further military adventures in the Middle East as required to cement the global US hegemony as laid out in the neo-con PNAC think tank's plans for the establishment of a global Pax Americana. (As discussed in this archived thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1069536 )

The Iraqis are not uneducated and ignorant on these issues like the average American citizen raised solely on a diet of Fox News and CNN (regurgitators of White House press releases) and they know well enough what the US is there for. They will only be free in so far as they agree to put US interests ahead of Iraq's interest. Some will be happy to go along with US plans for convenience, or because they may genuinely feel that their future is best secured as a satellite of the USA. However Iraq being Iraq there will be a significant number of Iraqis who feel differently and will fight for their independence and to ensure they will exercise ultimate control over their own resources and not Washington. Dubya poked a stick in hornets is what he has done and the US occupying troops will pay the price for his obtuseness as indeed the 10,000 dead Iraqi civilians (and probably another 20,000 or so of Saddams conscripted military )have already done.

Edited to fix link.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #27
43. Who are you to ask about "principles"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #27
47. How old are you? You seem awfully naive.
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #20
36. Telling post indeed
The British secure Basra.
The Coalition secures provences (sic) to the north.

So, the British are not part of the "Coalition"? How bizarre.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #20
42. Psst....the British ARE part of the coalition...
...how old are you really?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #42
55. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. You're a pre-teen right?
I mean if you really are located near Baghdad and it's going up in flames, riots and Apache attacks, how is it you have time to type a quaint little Republican talking points message on a political board?

Sloganeering...You mean like "Mission Accomplished" or "Bring 'Em On" or "Fool Me Once, Shame on Me, Fool Me Twice, Shame on..er, um, uhhhhhhh"?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #57
73. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
85. I thought the British were part of the coalition
A quibble, I know, but it helps your credibility to get these little things right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fizzana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
23. When 60 people, including 8 heavily armed U.S. solders are
killed, is a lot more than a "riot". RPG's aren't used in riots. It's a new front in a guerilla war. Call it what it is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jmatthan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 06:14 AM
Response to Original message
29. When will the Saddam-type mass graves start being dug?
eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
markus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #29
69. What do you mean "will start being dug"?
They started during the invasion. Where do you think the thousands of unreported civilian casualtiest went?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
51. But, I was told "We must stay in Iraq to keep the peace"
That point was emphasized repeatedly in a couple of weekend threads.

Looks like things are going to hell right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
52. Al-Jazeera update: Iraqis killed in US Apache air strike (Baghdad)
Al-Jazeera's pictures is what the Islamic world will get to see. Notice the child by the door in this picture:


Occupation forces have sealed
off the city of Falluja


The US army patrols the streets
of al-Sadr city in Baghdad

Iraqis killed in US Apache air strike
Monday 05 April 2004, 14:00 Makka Time, 11:00 GMT


At least five people have been killed and several others injured after two US Apache helicopters launched an air strike targeting an al-Sadr bureau in al-Shula area of the Iraqi capital, Baghdad.

According to Aljazeera's correspondent, a number of adjacent houses were damaged in the strike.

A US vehicle was also seen burning in the area, he added.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/3E23D7FF-3065-48E5-9810-BD63DDCB03EA.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #52
63. Sealed off-what a joke
Edited on Mon Apr-05-04 09:17 AM by jmcgowanjm
I lived in Memphis

About the same size as Fallujah.

Could 4000 marines seal off Memphis?

Buckle your seat belts and pull out your
Tet Offensive materials.

    Giap prepared a bold thrust on two fronts. With
memories of the victory at Dien Bien Phu still in his
mind, he planned an attack on the US Marines' firebase
at Khe Sanh. At the same time the NVA and the NLF
planned coordinated attacks on virtually all South
Vietnam's major cities and provincial capitals. If the
Americans opted to defend Khe Sanh, they would
find themselves stretched to the limit when battles
erupted elsewhere throughout the South.

http://www.vwam.com/vets/tet/tet.html



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
60. Exactly as according to the PNAC plan.
Iraq is to be scuttled in a civil war, breeding terrorism for decades and justifying the need for a neocon police state in what was once the United States.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Insider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #60
84. exactly
* see bin laden/bush
* see sad-dam hussein/bush
* see noriega/bush/war on drugs

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
worldgonekrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #84
87. I, for one, will go down fighting before that happens
But I'm not so sure it will. As stupid as many of them may be, I have confidence that my fellow citizens would hesitate in going so far as to enforce a police state domestically. That is to say, the soldiers/police that are assigned with the task will not cooperate, IMO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
65. Oh crap.
This is going to be a bloody week.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-04 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
79. Hmm.. Rioting killed 60?? I didn't know rioting had the ability to kill.
It seems more likely that American troops or Iraqi police and/or foreign mercenaries killed 60 rioters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC