Assange could face espionage trial in US ("Informal discussions have already taken place")

[Turborama]

Source: The Independent (UK)

Washington sees chance as WikiLeaks founder is jailed as battle begins to prevent extradition over sex charges

By Kim Sengupta, Diplomatic Correspondent
Wednesday, December 08 2010

Informal discussions have already taken place between US and Swedish officials over the possibility of the WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange being delivered into American custody, according to diplomatic sources.

Mr Assange is in a British jail awaiting extradition proceedings to Sweden after being refused bail at Westminster Magistrates’ Court despite a number of prominent public figures offering to stand as surety.

His arrest in north London yesterday was described by the US Defence Secretary Robert Gates as “good news”, and may pave the way for extradition to America and a possible lengthy jail sentence.

The US Justice Department is considering charging Mr Assange with espionage offences over his website’s unprecedented release of classified US diplomatic files. Several right-wing American politicians are pressing for his prosecution and even execution, with Sarah Palin, the former vice-presidential candidate, saying he should be pursued the same as al-Qa’ida and Taliban leaders.


Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/assange-could-face-espionage-trial-in-us-2154107.html

---

Assange wanted by US for 'espionage offences'

Source: Sydney Morning Herald

Asher Moses
December 8, 2010 - 4:35PM

As critics protest against the "shonky" way WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has been denied his freedom, diplomatic sources have reportedly revealed informal talks are under way for him to be transferred into US custody.

US and Swedish officials have already discussed the possibility of Mr Assange being delivered into the hands of US law enforcement to face potential charges over "espionage offences", Britain's The Independent reported, citing "diplomatic sources".

=snip=

Mr Assange's mother, Christine, who runs a puppet theatre in Queensland, speaking to The Sunshine Coast Daily, http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/story/2010/12/08/mum-speaks-out-wikileaks-chief/">said she was worried her son would not get a fair trial.

"There's no fair play here," she said. "My son has come forward of his own free will to face the charges against him and they have put him in the ring with his hands tied behind his back."

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/driven-to-dissent--like-father-like-son-20101204-18kpr.html">Mr Assange's son Daniel has called for his father to be treated "fairly and apolitically" following his arrest in Britain last night.

Full article: http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/assange-wanted-by-us-for-espionage-offences-20101208-18ouj.html?from=smh_sb

[msanthrope]

1. We don't need to charge him to get him here---

He is integral to the prosecution and defense of Bradley Manning. We can get him within the jurisdiction without criminal charges.

If he is charged criminally, it's going to be with conspiracy to commit espionage...ask the Rosenbergs how that went.

[sabrina 1]

5. He is a journalist. If he is charged with espionage, then every

journalist in the world who receives information about wrong-doing by a government and publishes it, will be guilty of espionage.

This would set a chilling precedent and I hope journalists everywhere will take a stand against this outrage.

They are nothing if not transparent. If a crime was committed by Wikileaks, charges would have been filed long ago. The reason they haven't been, is because there was no crime. The only crimes involved in this case, were committed by Gates and the rest of the Bush gang and that is what they are trying so desperately to cover up.

Obama has now made himself an accessory in those crimes.

I believe they are just threatening, hoping to scare those who can publish the evidence against them, to think twice about it.

Maybe they don't get it. They have created so many millions of victims all of whom have friends and families and who have been denied justice, that the only people who will support such an outrage, are Americans, on the right and sadly, our Democratic Government. I wonder how it feels to be the bad guys, the oppressors who, when this story is told in history, will be viewed the way those who jailed MLK, or Ghandi and others who fought for the rights of human beings, are now viewed in the history books? Is that where this president wants to be? Alongside Bush and Cheney?

[tomm2thumbs]

9. good points all around - he has been around for a lot longer than this new argument by the US govt

doing identical things, but suddenly this is 'new'

[msanthrope]

13. I think you mis-read my post, badly.

If Assange is charged, it's not going to be with espionage, but conspiracy to commit espionage. There's a difference. A big one.


You also wrote:

"They are nothing if not transparent. If a crime was committed by Wikileaks, charges would have been filed long ago. The reason they haven't been, is because there was no crime. The only crimes involved in this case, were committed by Gates and the rest of the Bush gang and that is what they are trying so desperately to cover up."

Charges have already been filed in this case, Sabrina. Manning's preferral and charge sheet came out in July.

Remember Bradley Manning? I seriously doubt he's the only person who is going to be 'charged' in this.

[enlightenment]

25. Don't conflate, msanthrope.

Sabrina was talking about Assange. You are talking about Manning. They are two different people.

Charges have not been filed against Assange because the government can't figure out what to charge him with. You indicated as much in your first post - 'he will probably' is not a statement of fact, but one of opinion.

Espionage will be a tough act to prosecute under the law (the difference in conspiracy? More than one person involved.) Intent is fundamental to the charge; was Assange's (and Manning's) intent to cause 'injury' to the US or to give an 'advantage' to a foreign nation to do so . . . or was it simply exposing the seamy underbelly?

Not everything that was released is relevant to the US - beyond the fact that the government was keeping the secret. Should every nation involved prosecute them under their version of the Espionage Act?

[msanthrope]

30. Who's conflating? The assertion was made that no charges have been filed. They have.

Now, as to your other assertions--

1) You don't know if charges have been filed or not.

2) Are you seriously suggesting that no one at the Department of Justice can figure out a charge?

3) Conspiracy to commit espionage is not 'espionage plus one person.' Conspiracy to commit espionage doesn't require the government to prove that espionage was commited--only that the person attempted to engage in such activities. Intent is NOT fundamental to the charge. Ask the rosenbergs--since they weren't charged with espionage, but with conspiracy to commit said act.

4) Relevancy isn't a factor in the crime, either.

5) I won't opine on other nations.

[Turborama]

34. Please cite the exact laws you are referring to

Espionage & Censorship: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sup_01_18_10_I_20_37.html

Conspiracy: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sup_01_18_10_I_20_19.html

[sabrina 1]

51. Exactly, thank you n/t

[sabrina 1]

50. I do remember Bradley Manning. I was speaking about the news

organization, Wikileaks. No charges have been filed against the news organization, an award winning news organization btw, because it is difficult to charge ONE news organization for publishing material given to them by whistle-blowers, without sending a very disturbing message that the U.S. controls the press even to the point of putting them in prison, NOT for refusing to reveal a source, but for existing and doing what news orgs are supposed to do.

If you charge one publisher, which is what Assange is, with conspiracy to commit espionage, then what message does that send to the rest of the media?

Of course it is possible that our apparently useless media already got that message which would explain why Wikileaks is doing the job THEY should have done from the start.

Sorry about misunderstanding you :-)

[Bragi]

27. Maybe a "chilling precedent" is what the Obama administration seeks? /nt

[tcaudilllg]

36. Chilling precedent isn't the word.

It would a situation where we would have to think very carefully about how to proceed. (although purging state parties across the country of any and all who agree with it would be a start).

[krabigirl]

59. Very good post.

[sabrina 1]

2. They are desperate. If they want to act on the Espionage

laws, then where is Holder on the State Department instructing its diplomats to spy on UN member states and the Secretary General, in violation of the Espionage laws regarding the UN?

There is no way he should be placed in the hands of a country that tortures people, innocent people. I hope the entire world will fight this outrageous lie that Wikileaks, an award-winning news organization, was engaged in espionage because they reported news that our own media should have been reporting.

This is chilling and every journalist in the world should feel a shiver down their spines reading about these developments.

The torturers and killers of innocents are frightened, frightened that they will not be able to hide the evidence of their crimes anymore.

Sadly, the British are nothing but lapdogs of the U.S. as is Sweden. He is in great danger unless the support for him is so overwhelming that they cannot overcome it.

[24601]

56. Espionage for the US isn't the same as against the US n/t

[maddezmom]

3. I wonder how this is going to playout...some experts say there will be a lengthy trial

and others say because of the EAW it's going to be quick and he'll be extradited.

couple of articles:

Julian Assange: Extradition case involving Wikileaks founder could last many months
Julian Assange will fight extradition to Sweden in a case that could be dragged out for months, costing the British taxpayer tens of thousands of pounds.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8187563/Julian-Assange-Extradition-case-involving-Wikileaks-founder-could-last-many-months.html

Why Britain is likely to send WikiLeaks' Assange to Sweden on rape charges
The legal team of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange may fight his potential extradition to Sweden on human rights grounds, but it's unlikely Mr. Assange will avoid it, say legal experts.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/1207/Why-Britain-is-likely-to-send-WikiLeaks-Assange-to-Sweden-on-rape-charges

[tcaudilllg]

39. Whatever happens

it will be first stage in the U.S.' fall from prominence. However, domestically we will need to make certain adjustments against the people who advocate for the prosecution of Wikileaks et al.

We'd always suspected there was evil in the hearts of the GOP and its lackies... but we'd never actually seen it except in support for various social positions. This motion to hurt people for disobeying them is a sign that they are dangerous. We need to reorient the entire goddamn system, leave them behind, failing, floundering.

We need some way -- some LEGAL way -- to take scalps, and put the fear in the heart of the right wing enemy.

[EFerrari]

4. Since some jack@sses here have threatened his life

and since we have a torture problem, Assange can make a case against his extradition. I guess it will depend on how corrupt the court in Sweden is.

[Vattel]

21. I hope you are right.

His case against being extradited to Sweden appears to be weak. But I hope he can avoid being extradited to the US from Sweden. If the US prosecutes him after ignoring the crimes of the Bush Administration, then I will be looking for a new political party.

[Catherina]

22. Corrupt. Add they enthusiastically proved it in this case. It's up to the people of Sweden,

Australia, the UK, and the US with the support of the rest of the world now.

[tcaudilllg]

40. Not the people of the U.S....

The Left. It's up to the Left.

[EFerrari]

42. I wonder if the ACLU could file an amicus brief

arguing against his extradition to the United States? Or, some human rights organization?

[Bryn]

6. Then there's something wrong with USA

if they have something to hide ...

[EFerrari]

7. At the linked page w/ Christine Assange's comments, 87% believe

this arrest is politically motivated.

[tcaudilllg]

44. It was a CIA setup.

Look it up.

[EFerrari]

54. More likely State Department.

:)

[slay]

8. I fucking hate our government

they ignore all the crimes and shoot the messenger! We are living in bizarro world!

[Meldread]

14. The United States Government is not ignoring the crimes.

They're the criminals, and they're shooting the whistle blower.

[slay]

15. Ah yes

what you said makes a whole lot more sense. sadly.

[harun]

16. Assange isn't the whistle blower. He's just one of the people who posts

the whistle blowers stuff online.

[ixion]

10. Yet the Bush cabal goes free

freakin' amazing.

[peace13]

19. Yes, the parade of war criminals left free to march across the Sunday morning shows..

is maddening!

[Hubert Flottz]

11. Now Now...

Don't look back.

[Demeter]

12. Actually, I'm Looking Forward

and I'm thinking that the desperation on the part of the Powers that Be is a sign that they are soon to be the powers that were.

[polly7]

17. If he's arrested in NA then every single person who called publicly

for his assassination better be tried, too. I hope some of the smartest, meanest, kick-ass lawyers jump in to help him. This is sick.

[sulphurdunn]

18. The idea is to make an example of Assange.

One could wonder who Gates and others like him think they are. Truth is they know who they are. They're the ruling class. The only delusional thinking regards who the American people like to think they are.

[Javaman]

20. Yup...

this is not only about the leaks, but controlling the press, the internet and the free flow of information.

If they put the clamps on Assange, then any journalist, any blogger, any whistle blower, any person who speaks out or anyone with any information, no matter how trifling it is, can be held as a terrorist/enemy combatant/traitor.

Like someone else said, Assange isn't a whistle blower, Manning was the whistle blower, Assange just posted the stuff on line.

This situation has such incredibly long rang implications that everyone in America should be paying attention and be colossally pissed off by our governments actions.

The US government is winning the war on suppression and losing the war on reputation and credibility.

We are a proto-fascist state.

If Assange is prosecuted for whatever reason, we will effectively be a fascist state.

The corporations already control everything, the media controls the propaganda, the last piece that needs to be fitted in is the control of the peoples voice.

This would do it.

[tcaudilllg]

43. We know that for sure, now.

Before we never had evidence but, boy do we have that evidence for sure, now.

[williesgirl]

23. How fucked up is this? Bush/Cheney ok on illegal invasions/torture, but go after someone for

publishing the truth?

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. This would be a big mistake. They would martyr him.

[The Stranger]

26. New York Times Co. v. United States, 403 U.S. 713 (1971)

The Pentagon Papers Case

[The Stranger]

28. The Congressional Record

To ensure the possibility of public debate about the content of the papers, on June 29, US Senator Mike Gravel (then Democrat, Alaska) entered 4,100 pages of the Papers to the record of his Subcommittee on Public Buildings and Grounds. These portions of the Papers were subsequently published by Beacon Press, the publishing arm of the Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations.<5>

Article I, Section 6 of the United States Constitution provides that "for any Speech or Debate in either House, shall not be questioned in any other Place", thus the Senator could not be prosecuted for anything said on the Senate floor, and, by extension, for anything entered to the Congressional Record, allowing the Papers to be publicly read without threat of a treason trial and conviction. This was confirmed by the Supreme Court in the decision Gravel v. United States.

[tcaudilllg]

47. It could come down to that.

[Turborama]

29. LA Times: US considering asking for Assange extradition

Washington…Angry over the bombardment of leaks of classified material, top Obama administration officials are considering filing an extradition request with Sweden to have WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange face criminal charges, possibly for espionage.

Any such proceedings would set up a test of whether the 1st Amendment's protection for a free press extends to a website with a world-wide audience.

"What we're investigating is a crime under U.S. law,'' P.J. Crowley, a top State Department spokesman, said Tuesday. "The provision of 250,000 classified documents from someone inside the government to someone outside the government is a crime."

His remarks mirrored sharp words Monday from Atty. Gen. Eric H. Holder Jr., who said prosecutors are weighing not only espionage but other crimes as well against the Australian citizen who through his website postings has embarrassed much of the U.S. diplomatic apparatus.

More: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sc-dc-1208-assange-legal-20101207,0,2453386.story

[msanthrope]

31. They should make the request directly to the UK--it's an easier extradition.

The UK has discretion to rule over competing extradition requests. And our treaty with them is pretty good.

We don't need a charge, though. We could request his presence for questioning in the Manning matter.

If the US were to wait for his extradition to Sweden, then you would have a lengthier process.

[Turborama]

32. Not as easy as you think...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Hamza_al-Masri#Extradition_to_US

[EFerrari]

37. Such a clear political prosecution would make everyone look worse

than they already do now.

[gmpierce]

33. The real offense

Has anyone here considered the idea that this is not a matter of law. It's more like the rules of the street - like gang justice.

The US got punk'd. Unfortunately for our pseudo-patriots that is not a criminal offense. Unfortunately for Assange, gang justice doesn't follow any rules.

Any odds on whether we will see a predator drone flying over London?

[bemildred]

35. Yeah, our "leaders" are trying not to look "weak".

That is the mental level at work.

[tcaudilllg]

45. It's all about Dem party leaders not trying to look weak on defense.

Little do they know that they are gonna be leaving town regardless.

[Krakowiak]

38. Wait Wait... Where are all the people that said if he wasn't guilty of sex crimes....

all he had to do was show up and face the charges, because they had NOTHING to do with the U.S. wanting to get its hands on him?

What an absolute joke of justice if this takes place. I fear for the country we are quickly becoming.

[tcaudilllg]

48. The country will become what you allow it to be.

[mvd]

41. Legal or not legal, I'm glad he's shaking up the power structure a bit

:hi:

[Overseas]

46. So Cheney and Bush can brag about torture programs and we want to Move Forward on that.

But an Australian journalist who receives and discloses leaked information about past activities has to be hunted down?

Why aren't we Moving Forward about Julian too? Letting bygones be bygones, like with the torture promoters.

[avaistheone1]

49. +1000

[mvd]

52. Exactly

:thumbsup:

[lovuian]

53. Justice is not here in America ..if London transfers him out

on charges of Espionage ...verses what he was arrested for Swedish rape charges
their complicit with arresting the man falsely

it will only further prove that America has taken over the world's justice systems, and countries

I can only say to Europe bend over and smile
what ever money you have will be ours ...the European Union ..is toast
This is really showing how the New World Order's tentacles have taken over

I can only say this has awakened many people on what is going on

[defendandprotect]

58. Australia is also showing its face is in the US pudding .... shame on them!!

[Octafish]

55. ''Informal discussions have already taken place.''

"Tell you what, Vinny. You bring da acid. I'll bring da body."

[defendandprotect]

57. FREE JULIAN ASSANGE ... we need to find some way to prevent his ---

[farmboxer]

60. But it's OK to expose an undercover CIA agent?!

I think I will go puke!

[Dash87]

61. This says all about the mentality of the US Government

They know that trying and convicting him would make him into a hero, but they don't care. They're like, "Screw everybody, we're America!!! (emphasis) We can do whatever the heck we want! Who's going to stop us? You!?"

That always seems to be what the bully says before he gets a black eye and bloody nose, and runs home crying.