House Dems Voting No

[Botany]

Source: Atlanta Journal Constitution

House Dems Voting No
10:32 am December 9, 2010, by Jamie Dupree

A group of over 50 House Democrats have gone on the record in stating their opposition to the tax cut deal struck by President Obama with Congressional Republicans.

Led by Rep. Peter Welch (D-VT), the group released a letter today that was sent to Speaker Nancy Pelosi, which calls the deal "fiscally irresponsible" and "grossly unfair."

"Borrowing nearly a trillion dollars to finance tax cuts that disproportionately favor millionaires and billionaires threatens our ability to create jobs, growth middle class and protect seniors," the letter says.

Read more: http://blogs.ajc.com/jamie-dupree-washington-insider/2010/12/09/house-dems-voting-no/?cxntfid=blogs_jamie_dupree_washington_insider

---

:popcorn:

[Dinger]

1. Good

I do believe I detect a backbone!

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

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[No Elephants]

77. Hope you're right, but House was firm on public option, too--for a while

[Autumn]

2. This is so delightful

K/R

[MineralMan]

3. Will they succeed in blocking it?

What is the current vote count projection?

[harun]

64. All Pelosi has to do is not bring it up for a vote. They don't have to block anything.

[No Elephants]

80. How'd they do with public option?

[glitch]

4. We need a lot more than 50.

And they need to single out and be very vocal about what the "payroll tax holiday" really is.

Edit: Anything less is puppetry.

[sirthomas66]

90. I'm working day and night to inform people about the seriousness

of the payroll tax holiday. If it goes through, it will end the Democratic Party. Unusual the responses I keep getting. For people nearing retirement, many seem not too concerned because they say it won't effect them. The younger ones try to deny it, saying stuff like, "Oh, he's not going to do that..." It's amazing. This is not some last-minute idea; this is a contingency plan when the catfood commission became defunct. I am actually astounded that this board is taking this so relatively lightly. Who will support Mom and Dad of the future when SS becomes nonviable? Kids who have nothing saved? Will assisted suicide become legal? Oh, well, sorry to burden you with these questions.

[DirkGently]

5. So many "fringe" "far-left" "purist" "parlor pundits" in Congress, eh?

:evilgrin:

[still_one]

6. They were tricked on HCR, so why would they take larry summers, and other's word that this is

necessary?

[Nite Owl]

7. Good!

It was quite arrogant of the administration to think that they should make a deal without even consulting with the dem leadership. The GOP knew what was going on and made their demands accordingly. I hope Obama learns a lesson from this, his progressive base can't just be ignored and counted on to follow whatever he deems. The bill will likely pass with mostly GOP votes and that in itself says a lot.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

45. the dem leadership had quite a fair amount of time to make one

Obama was quite vocal about the need to deal with the tax problem before the midterms

the democrats however balked since they thought it might hurt their elections.


Besides, didn't DU attack Obama for ages in regards to health care because he let congress deal with it, now that he DID deal with it himself and send it to congress DU attacks him for daring to not let congress deal with it

[lark]

58. False equivalency

We wanted him to keep his campaign promise of single payer and to work for that option, but he didn't because his masters didn't want it. We also wanted him to keep his campaign promise (reasons we voted for him) to eliminate tax cuts for rich, but he's fighting for the other side. Can't be bothered to fight for what he says he believes in but will fight for an Obamination? See the difference?

[Creative]

71. He's fighting for re-election--that's the real difference.

[No Elephants]

78. When has he not been fighting for re-election?

[The Stranger]

61. +10000

[jwirr]

8. I am glad to see them get some balls BUT they had better get some

of those things for the rest of us voted on before they go home for Christmas. If they do not have some alternatives for the unemployed then it is going to come back to bite them.

[BigD_95]

9. House Democrats defy Obama on tax cut bill

Source: CNN

CNN) - Defying President Obama, House Democrats voted Thursday not to bring up the tax package that he negotiated with Republicans in its current form.
"This message today is very simple: That in the form that it was negotiated, it is not acceptable to the House Democratic caucus. It's as simple as that," said Democratic Congressman Chris Van Hollen.

"We will continue to try and work with the White House and our Republican colleagues to try and make sure we do something right for the economy and right for jobs, and a balanced package as we go forward," he said.
The vote comes a day after Vice President Biden made clear to House Democrats behind closed doors that the deal would unravel if any changes were made.

The vote also come less than an hour after Obama himself urged Congress to pass the compromise he struck with GOP leaders earlier this week and warned that failing to do it could cost jobs.
"There is an important debate on Capitol Hill that will determine in part whether our economy moves backward or forward," Obama said at an Export Council meeting. "The bipartisan framework we have forged on taxes will not only protect working Americans from seeing a major tax increase on January 1, it will provide businesses with incentives to invest, grow, and hire."
"Every economist I have talked to or read over the last couple of days acknowledges that this agreement would boost economic growth in the coming years and has the potential to create millions of jobs," Obama continued. "The average American family will start 2011 knowing that there will be more money to pay the bills each month, more money to pay for tuition, more money to raise their children," he said. "But if this framework fails, the reverse is true. Americans will see it in smaller paychecks that will have the effect of fewer jobs."

Read more: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/09/house-democrats-defy-obama-on-tax-cut-bill/?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

[CountAllVotes]

10. Biden: the deal would unravel if any changes were made

Fine, then change the damned thing and let this stinking deal "unravel" (aka burn in hell where it belongs!!).

:kick:

[polichick]

12. Yeah, I read about this in WaPo today - basically, take it or leave it...

I'd leave it.

[GOTV]

59. Wow. That doesn't sound like compromise. Suddenly the admin is all out of compromise juice?

[MJJP21]

32. Perhaps

Did anyone think that perhaps Biden was hoping that this deal would become undone by using the words he did?

[No Elephants]

81. Biden negotiated the deal.

[No Elephants]

79. Promise?

[polichick]

11. Good for them - they can at least make it better. nt

[NoodleyAppendage]

13. HELL YEAH! Shame it takes House Dems to demonstrate how a Dem President should behave.

Obama just got his DLC-lovin' ass spanked. Maybe he will learn...but, I doubt it.

J

[Ruby the Liberal]

14. "the deal would unravel if any changes were made"

Translation: The Republicans know they have us by the short & curlies and will not back down on any of their demands.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

15. Just say No!

I just called Pelosi's office here in SF and told her to stand strong on this.

[BigD_95]

17. can u post the #

so we can all call and give her support

[Hell Hath No Fury]

39. Here is her DC info -

Office of the Speaker
H-232, US Capitol
Washington, DC 20515
[phone]

[No Elephants]

82. Try house.gov

[Overseas]

16. Republican Cruelty remains absolute.

That should be the topic for a few days at least.

By our president compromising too soon the story becomes -- Democrats are Upset with their president! instead of--

Republicans are heartless! They are willing to hold the poor and unemployed hostage to win political points!

And the bigger, more important topic -- Supply-side Trickle-down economics has failed! -- isn't even discussed.

The country needs to move forward and letting in more Democratic demand-side economics will do that best, but instead we're discussing -- The Left is Upset with The President !!

"Strategery" instead of substance.

[Liberalynn]

18. Sure Hope they stick to their guns

[bemildred]

19. Bravo. nt

[Jester Messiah]

20. GOOD!!!

I hope they just sit on it and run out the clock. It'll be much harder to pass as new legislation.

[Bragi]

21. Will the President now get tough in negotiations?

Having been flayed for weak negotiations with the Repugs, will Obama now get tough so as to force his own party to accept the GOP position on tax cuts?

This should get real interesting.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

29. Hopefully, he will use this for that ...

Please, please, please.

[No Elephants]

83. Obama WANTS the tax cuts for the rich to continue. So backbone is irrelevant this time.

[ladjf]

22. Good! nt

[Chico Man]

23. Divide and conquer

I am speechless.

[GodlessBiker]

24. k&r

[BenzoDia]

26. What's k&r?

[GodlessBiker]

28. Kick it up to the top of the list and recommend it.

[FailureToCommunicate]

40. Welcome to DU. Just in time for popcorn.

:popcorn:

"How can you make popcorn at a time like this!?!?"
"I aways make popcorn at this point in the movie!"

[Playinghardball]

25. I'm I reading Obama all wrong when it comes to this tax plan?

Or is Obama acting dumb as a fox?

Dumb as a fox; To be smart or cunning while appearing not to know what you are doing....

You know that the fox is known for its cunning and crafty ways....

I wonder....

[PSPS]

33. No, the notion that Obama was "playing 10-level chess" was discarded long ago.

The sad fact is that he's on their side. This "deal" was what he wanted regardless of what he says in one of his "great speeches." What's the tell? The "compromise" gives away even more than the republicans wanted in the first place.

[No Elephants]

85. Please see Reply 83.

We should never have let this fox in our henhouse.

[sirthomas66]

91. That made me smile a little despite my great anguish. Thanks.

[still_one]

27. Gee, sounds like the same threats they were talking about HCR, and with summers coming out saying

that if it doesn't pass it will have dire economic consequences, tells me that the bill must be extremely bad

[StarsInHerHair]

72. he cried wolf too many times

nt

[CherokeeDem]

30. Hmmmm....

What a tangled little web they have woven....

But really, they find a backbone...now???

Not that I am unhappy, even though I am unemployed, I want this fight against the Republicans...but it's frightening at the same time...

[PSPS]

31. What a pitiful headline. Too bad Obama isn't really a democrat.

[jaxx]

34. The President is a Democrat.

Too bad the far left can't recognize that.

[Chico Man]

37. thank you

I totally agree.

[pattmarty]

54. Totally disagree.

[shawn703]

42. Benedict Arnold was an American. nt

[mistertrickster]

47. And if he would only act like a Democrat, we on the "far left" i.e., the majority would back him. nt

[Dappleganger]

57. The far left?

You mean those of us who aren't DLC'ers??

WE put him in office and will run a real democrat against him, next time.

[martymar64]

73. You keep telling yourself that, honey.

[No Elephants]

84. "Far left" LOL!

[Chico Man]

35. political capital

what a charade on both sides of the aisle. Both sides using this issue to collect political capital for the 2012 election, that is all this boils down to. Pointing fingers, passing blame. Refusal to compromise.

In the end, taxes go up across the board, and we double dip. They don't care, they collected the soundbites they will use for the media onslaught about to begin. They have the top issue for the 2012 campaign defined and ready to go.

To move forward it is going to take compromise and a series of baby steps. Obama knows this, and he looks at the extreme wings of his parties and see thay they don't realize this. They just want revenge, fueled by a hatred for wealth and big business. Let the man do what he needs to do. Support your President, the man we all spent so much time putting into office in the first place. Move forward, compromise, and take baby steps towards a better America. Radical change is going to just throw us into the toilet.

[blackspade]

60. I don't agree with your matrix on this.

This is not about political capital for 2012 for the Democratic Party, because frankly, there is nothing to be won by this 'compromise'.
I say let the tax cuts expire. It will hurt, but not as much as the extension for the rich, the payroll tax 'holiday'(which undermines Social Security), and the estate tax 'compromise'.
All of these things are job and social safety net killers and only put our children in hoc with foreign countries.
Liberals and progressives are not 'the extreme wing' of the Democratic Party. We are the base of the party and center of the American politic.
We do not want 'revenge, fueled by a hatred for wealth and big business', we want equity and parity with rich and their corporations.
The way forward is not by compromising our core values, or to take 'baby steps' but to be bold and innovative and radical in solving some of the dire problems that we and our children face.

I find it troubling that the right wing of the democratic party continually calls on progressives to give in the republican lite 'compromise' with the Rethugs.
This part of the democratic party controls the party machine and is completely unwilling to compromise with the progressives on anything. Take it or leave it as Biden said yesterday. Where is this moxie when negotiating with the rethug party?

[Chico Man]

65. Moxie?

Like Howard Dean moxie?

The reality of the situation is that if we are to accomplish anything with something as complicated as the system of American Government we are going to have to make some concessions on the way. This moxie you are talking about is going to do nothing but further paralyze any movement forward.

What is "equity and parity with the rich and their corporations" mean? Do you honestly believe this is any kind of attainable end goal with the system that has been setup in this country? what would it mean for Joe the Plumber to have "equity" with John the CEO? What kind of country are you looking to live in? Yeah, I wonder how the right can label the left as socialist, because you speak of just that: socialism.

I do not, under any circumstances, what to give up my right to make it in this world. I've worked too hard to get to the point where I can put the extra $100-$200 a month away in a savings so I can buy a house and make a better life for my kids. If on January 1st my extra money goes away because of some stupid democrat vs republican showdown I will be seriously pissed off. This is precisely what looks like is going to happen, because of some vote mondering moxie filled showdown between the pricks we elected to represent us.

[blackspade]

66. Howard Dean moxie indeed.

Damn straight! That was what was needed to retake the congress using the 50 state strategy. The 'key states' strategy used this time around was a big loser for the party.

The reality is that the US system of government does not need to be complicated. It has been made that way by monied interests so that there is less transparency and accountability. Concessions are fine in a democracy, but both sides have to bend for it to work. The rethugs do not budge, but the administration and many in Congress abandon their positions before the negotiations even begin. The tax debate is one of those occasions. This time the White House owns this fuck up.

Equity and parity is just that. My vote and political clout are the same as those of corporations and the rich bastards that own them. And yes I understand that it is not an attainable goal based on the current political landscape. But, it is an ideal to strive for and is my starting position were I negotiating. Oh, and to answer your next question, I have no problems living in a socialist country if it is a nation where we care for the poor, elderly, and children as a society and provides an environment that creates good paying jobs that allow the general public to pursue the American Dream. I guess that makes me a socialist.

No one is asking you to give up your right to 'make it' in this world. Well, other than giant greedy corporations and the richest 1% of the county. They do not want you to make it, but they want you to think that the extra $200 you sock away each month will get you the car and house that you always wanted. The fact is that the deck is stacked against you if you do not make more than $100k a year. Your money will go away, one way or the other, under the current system whether you like it or not. This bill is an illusion in that it provides any breaks for the poor and middle class.

[Chico Man]

70. Indeed the deck is stacked against me

As it should be. Who ever said getting ahead should be easy? It took a lot of work to get a budget that allows me to sock away the extra $200. I have to live at the bare minimum possible. That is totally fair in my opinion! I can not cut any more corners, realistically, and I know I am at the upper echelon of the pay scale given my experience and education. The $200 is as much as I can squeeze. It is not going to go away, one way or another, because I am SMART and I WORK HARD. Don't try to tell me otherwise. The only thing that could take my money away now is a stupid tax increase brought on by idiot politicians trying to make some point so they can get re-elected.

People getting into stupid mortgages, getting hit with overdraft fees, buying too much house, too much rent, too much car.. getting a job that doesn't make any sense... wasting food... eating out, drinking, partying, being a dumbass, whatever it is that is "stealing" the money from people is nothing but their own fault for being idiots. If they woke up, made a budget, a plan, lived within their means, they can get ahead too. The only variables are gasoline (solved by not driving so much!) food prices (solved by being crafty) and taxes - something that I fell like I have absolutely no control over, unless I start my own business.

And yes, the $200 is going to get me the house I always wanted, no matter what you say to tell me. I am almost there, as long as my taxes dont go up in 2011. I pay enough, already, that is for damn sure.

[blackspade]

74. I feel bad for you.

You seem to have convinced yourself that you are above the economic carnage that has become the American experience.
The deck should not be stacked against you. That is a philosophy pushed at the end of the 1800s and is in vogue again now.
It's ironically called Social Darwinism.
There are millions of people in this country just like you that are smart, well educated, work hard, and are in the upper echelon of the pay scale given their experience and education.
Guess what? They are fucked through no fault of their own for a variety of reasons.
Your bootstrap philosophy has never worked in the long run because people live in an organic system called society that has a tendency, when it is fucked up, to take down everyone, even folks like yourself that seem to have their personal shit straight.
Frankly, I'm in the same boat. I own my modest house and I'm out of debt but I am still vulnerable to the predator class of this nation.
A stock plunge could put me out of work tomorrow, but the managers of my company will be fine with their options, salaries, and connections. I can't say the same.

[Chico Man]

76. It is the human experience

Always was, always will be. Some people get fucked. Life is hard.

Take Architectural Modernism, for example. Let's reduce the built environment to the essence. What a massive, and utter failure. Look at Pruitt-Igoe, look at Curbusier's Plan Voisin. Here we see bright, intelligent, forward thinking radicals trying to do what is best for "the people". It simply does not work. Idealism and the human experience do not fit together in reality. We have to admit that there will always be a class structure. Some will always be more well off than the others. And, frankly, I could be hit by a bus tomorrow. An earthquake could take out LA. Anything could happen at any moment. That's life.

Maybe these people are fucked because they took out too much debt for college. Maybe they are unlucky in the world of health. Maybe they didn't read the fine print. Maybe they took a risk, and it didn't exactly work out for the better. Each and every one of the grown people in this world, as long as they are healthy mentally, has the ability to make whatever decision they deem fit for life. Day to day life can be extraordinarly simple. If the stimulation and mainstream of mass consumption gets the better of them, well, sorry. Better luck next time.

[blackspade]

95. Excellent summation of Social Darwinism.

[PassingFair]

86. Total BULLSHIT. Boehner said just 2 months ago that the pukes were willing to compromise...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/42018.html

If they HAD to....

Obama never ASKED them to.

You are viewing things from a VERY NARROW
perspective that ends at the tip of your
own nose.

[No Elephants]

87. Compromise, my ass. Please see Reply 83.

[CC]

36. So the congressional

Democrats finally find their spines and stand up to a Democratic President. That takes some real bravery there. Maybe if they had stood up to the repukes and I mean really stood up and held their ground the Pres. might not of felt he had to make a deal no one likes. Would of been great to see them stand up on taxes in September or October and had a bill for Obama to sign before November. Hell they might even of held a few more seats. Notice the repukes are silent as they watch the Dems flay each other. I don't like this deal but I don't see where something better will happen when repukes control the house. The Dems can take a bit of blame for letting the repukes run out the clock on taxes as well as the Dream Act and DADT. Far as I'm concerned I will take their stances a bit more serious when they find their spines and hold their ground against the GOP.

[Tansy_Gold]

56. the point is that they ARE standing up to the GOP

This is a GOP wet dream bill. yeah, it was negotiated with Obama, but it's the goopers' bill.

That's who the house dems are standing up to. Give 'em credit for something.



TG,TT

[CC]

62. Not yet I won't.

So far I've only heard them blaming Obama for giving in. That isn't doing him or them any good and is only giving the GOP fuel. I'll wait and see if they really do stand up to all or if the crumble at the end like normal leaving behind lots of ammunition to be used against all Dems before giving anyone credit. IMHO they should stand firm but be yelling at the GOP and let the tax cuts expire for everyone. Then hit the GOP on screwing the unemployed for the cocaine & caviar crowd, screwing the middle class for the cocaine & caviar crowd and for mortgaging our future to give the cocaine & caviar crowd a tax cut.


If they feel "cocaine & caviar" is too harsh (though true) then use "champagne & caviar" to describe who the GOP wants to mortgage the future for.

[2Design]

38. vote to not bring it to the floor in the house

http://www.courant.com/business/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-us-tax-cuts,0,3019753.story

[Fearless]

41. Hell yes!

[BeyondGeography]

44. DeFazio: "They said take it or leave it. We left it."

Hilarious.

[harun]

63. That is excellent news.

[Guilded Lilly]

46. Gut wrenching situation...BUT

Blackmail is particularly ugly.
And particularly effective when one of the *sides* has more of a bleeding heart and the other side has a dollar sign pumping hot air in their chest instead. Both sides practice politics and that can always be a crappy problem.

Right now the Senate and House are tools of re-election for Republicans, not bodies of government. Democrats need some serious Chiropractor work.

I was not privy to the words spoken in their meetings. Those games they play behind closed doors are not for public ears. It's ugly in public and I can imagine how obscene it gets in private.

I don't like half of this deal or the way it was put off/pulled off so that the Republicans could sit back with repugnant smirks plastered across their criminally greedy faces and watch while they attempt to bring down my President by using his own party. Sly bastards, but then they don't need any room for compassion in their brains. And frankly, they have made their agenda known very verbally. DESTROY OBAMA. THEY are the main reason for this chaos and THEY are not being held accountable. A normal place for them. And far too comfortable to let them stay there.

Rock/Hard place, yeah. I wish the Democrats would be as strong and bold in their pursuit of their agenda as the Republicans are mean-assed and soul-less in theirs. But it is what it is, and so once again, we suffer.

But maybe NOT so much...maybe...maybeeee

I hear the President's word and I understand the *step back and take a pragmatic look at them* wisdom of them. (I believe he is intelligent in many more ways than I or any one of the elected officials he faces but is that kind of intelligence actually going to ever work to our advantage?). It didn't have to come down to the wire like this... but since it did~ Mr. President don't talk down to your own party when it isn't their lack of desire and timely leadership that create this f*cking mess.

That makes it too damned easy for the Republicans. There has got to be a point when the blackmail is twisted back in the faces of these people using it so freely and openly.
Like now.

I am a pacifist by nature. I avoid confrontation but have a stubborn streak as wide as the fattest Republican ass sitting back in their Congressional seat watching the chaos with glee. I want the Republicans to eat crap and perish! Or at least get an acute case of indigestion.

And while we are at it, let's make a majority a majority again.

It's just damned gut wrenching.

[Kennah]

48. Donning my tinfoil hat ...

... could this all be some part of an elaborate scheme contrived by the President and the House Democrats? A rope-a-dope strategy? The President says "Deal", the GOP rejoices, the House Democrats say "No Deal". Synergy can be a powerful thing, and this just might raise the level.

[NeoConsSuck]

69. The only elaborate scheme

Obama is capable of pulling is against the people who worked to put him into office (you & I).

Where have you been the last two years?

[No Elephants]

88. Please see Reply ##s 33 and 83. Stay away from tin foil. It rusts.

[Kennah]

96. True, but given the current filibuster ...

[2Design]

49. amazing ignorant comments on that blog posting

they saying the same thing without understanding
it is incredible and we know these same ignorant people vote
they have no idea what they are saying

[progressoid]

51. Mmmm...buttery.

:popcorn:

[davidwparker]

52. K&R

[harun]

53. Sniff sniff, I am smelling some Hope!!!!!

[closeupready]

55. Yes, finally, Hope!

(The AUDACITY...) :rofl:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

67. Atlantic Journal CIAonstitution.

:tinfoilhat:






:sarcasm:?

[Odin2005]

68. YAY!

[crim son]

75. delete

[No Elephants]

89. I'll wait to see what happens before cheering. The House was "firm" on the public option-for a while

[Still a Democrat]

92. 50? Out of more than 200?

n/t

[PassingFair]

93. 50 signed the letter, a lot more willing to vote it down. n/t

[Still a Democrat]

94. How many, and what is your source?

Thanks.