Europeans Criticize Fierce U.S. Response to Leaks

[NeoConsSuck]

Source: NY Times

PARIS — The United States considers itself a shining beacon of democracy and openness, but for many Europeans Washington’s fierce reaction to the flood of secret diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks displays imperial arrogance and hypocrisy, indicating a post-9/11 obsession with secrecy that contradicts American principles.

While the Obama Administration has done nothing in the courts to block the publication of any of the leaked documents, or even, as of yet, tried to indict WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange for any crime, American officials and politicians have been widely condemned in the European news media for calling the leaks everything from “terrorism” (Rep. Peter T. King, Rep.-New York) to “an attack against the international community” (Secretary of State Hillary Clinton). Secretary of Defense Robert M. Gates called the arrest of Mr. Assange on separate rape charges “good news,” while Sarah Palin called for him to be hunted as an “anti-American operative with blood on his hands” and Mike Huckabee, the former Arkansas governor and Republican presidential candidate, said that he should be executed.

For Seumas Milne of The Guardian in London, which has shared the latest WikiLeaks trove with The New York Times, the official American reaction “is tipping over towards derangement.” Most of the leaks are of low-level diplomatic cables, he noted, while concluding: “Not much truck with freedom of information, then, in the land of the free.”

John Naughton, writing in the same British paper, decried the attack on the openness of the Internet and the pressure on companies like Amazon and eBay to evict the WikiLeaks site. “The response has been vicious, coordinated and potentially comprehensive,” he said, and presents a “delicious irony” that “it is now the so-called liberal democracies that are clamoring to shut WikiLeaks down.”



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/world/europe/10wikileaks-react.html?_r=1&hp

---

Thank you Europe!! Although I wonder how much it will help. You didn't support the war in Iraq, but that didn't stop America from murdering Iraqi citizens.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. William Shakespeare:The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[kenfrequed]

68. Err...

Any chance on elaboration on that?

Who is protesting too much?

I'm all for quoting the Bard, but I sort of like to know why it is being used.

[goforit]

2. Once again our elected officials stand front and center without clothes

[RandomThoughts]

3. Interesting comment in that.

It is a paradox to see WikiLeaks concentrate its attacks essentially on democracies.


Diebold. And Democracy needs accurate media. However I think it also has to do with some actions that lost some respect with some groups, things done by the previous administrations.


That solves that paradox.

[jhrobbins]

37. I don't understand what you mean by your statement that....

"It is a paradox to see WikiLeaks concentrate its attacks essentially on democracies". As opposed to what? Governments like China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia et al? If that's what you mean, then I am even more confused. These governments don't posit anything else but what they are. Democracies (republics) like ours are supposed to be transparent, so it makes sense - at least to me - that WikiLeaks would go after those practicing hypocrisy rather than those just being the oligarchies they purport to be.

[Puregonzo1188]

42. And hasn't the majority of their focus since before now been China, East Asian, and African

countries? You know back when Assange was still getting praise from The Economist and was everyone's hero.

I guess we don't like it when it happens to us, but we're different aren't we? How dare they hold democracies to the same standards of China!

[sabrina 1]

45. Yes, you would think they did not exist until they received

documents on the U.S. The U.S. is so xenophobic, even people on the left, that nothing exists until it affects them personally.

Wikileaks published material from countries around the world, many of them far from being Democracies. They received awards from human rights organizations for their work on Kenya eg.

It seems no one in the U.S. heard of them until a few months ago and the knee jerk and ignorant reaction to them has been just incredible. As the OP says, it borders on insanity. I think the world is looking at the reaction here and what they see are a bunch of lunatics running around screaming, throwing temper tantrums, losing all sense of reason, censoring news organizations, calling for the assassination of a News Organization's publisher and editor. This will definitely go down in history as the time when America revealed that 'democracy' was in fact a foreign concept to most of our elected officials.

As for our news media, they are silent. They should be outraged, especially after Joe Lieberman called for an investigation into the NYT. I used to think our Democracy was threatened, but I actually think it is way past that, watching this, seeing comments on U.S. forums, compared to those on European boards, most of whom are supportive of Wikileaks, I think our democracy is simply gone.

[Uncle Joe]

80. I found this sentence to be particulary revealing.

The Berliner Zeitung continued: “The U.S. is betraying one of its founding myths: freedom of information. And they are doing so now, because for the first time since the end of the cold war, they are threatened with losing worldwide control of information.”

Nicole Bacharan, a scholar of the United States at the Institut d’Études Politiques, said that in France, “There is a fracture between those who consider that American diplomacy is efficient and understands the world and has a positive influence and those who are distrustful of the objectives of that diplomacy.” What struck her most, she said, was that “pro-Americans have been harsher than the anti-Americans here.”

[molly77]

74. You know what country is missing?

The democracy of Israel.

[molly77]

76. From The Guardian

Israel has been largely untroubled by because US views on key Middle Eastern issues especially on Iran, Syria and Lebanon, are so close to its own. "Israel is not the centre of international attention," said Binyamin Netanyahu. "Normally, there's a gap between what is said publicly and what is said privately, but in this case, the gap is not large." The most significant revelation was that Israel believes that beyond a certain point attacking Iran would cause too much "collateral damage."Israel can be seen maintaining discreet contact with Gulf states and have an intriguing intelligence link to Saudi Arabia. It suits Israel that the Palestinian issue and Jewish settlements in the occupied territories do not feature prominently. The Palestinian Authority denied suggestions it acquiesced in Israel's war on Hamas in Gaza.

I guess the reason is spelled out here. Israel's interests are the same as US . Many think Israel's interests are given priority.

[molly77]

77. Another comment from The Guardian re.the royals car attack

MattDislikesYou
10 December 2010 9:37AM
I dislike the monarchy, to be fair I found it quite amusing.

Recommend? (576)

Looks like the little people are rising up.

[DeSwiss]

50. He's quoting from further into the article.

Even Laurent Joffrin, the editor of the leftist daily Libération, defended the right to diplomatic secrecy and said one must reflect on a “demand for transparency at any price.” States must have secrets, he said, so long as they have oversight from elected representatives. “It is a paradox to see WikiLeaks concentrate its attacks essentially on democracies,” Mr. Joffrin said. “And it is rather comforting to see that the secret exchanges of the great diplomatic powers are very little different in content from what they say in public.”

Still, some might argue with the statement as it now stands.

"It is a paradox to see WikiLeaks concentrate its attacks essentially on countries who refer to themselves as 'democracies'"

- /fixed

[Larry Ogg]

73. The fact that chickens come home to roost

might only be a paradox to those who know nothing about fowl habits...

The fact that the vast majority of Americas elected leaders now court the antithesis of moral conscience and decency, is no less a paradox, to those who know nothing about the "foul" habits of predators...

Moreover, how classic an example that the defenders of predators call it a paradox when truth reveals evil wrapped in a facade of exceptional ideals and democracy long bereft of founding principals; alas… it is putrid and rotting at the core. But the value of defending the rot concealing veneer, allows the pathological liars and deceivers to flirt with people of conscience, i.e. those who are accustom too enduring and suffering the hardships of evils cloaked and prospering for noble causes based on lies, and to the demise of all…

[AllyCat]

75. +1

[Matariki]

46. Very often your thoughts aren't quite so random, sir.

I think that makes sense.

[geek tragedy]

4. Milne's reaction to the 9/11 attacks was "The US had it coming."

Not a neutral observer.

[Fearless]

5. Well...

They had done many things in the area that prompted a response. Was it right? Certainly not. Was it a surprise? Again, certainly not.

[Puregonzo1188]

43. That's not quite what he said. Though I assume you think Ron Paul also holds the same position.

[awoke_in_2003]

49. we did have it coming...

our imperialistic attitude led to that event. You can't constantly piss on people and expect them to not react.

[Le Taz Hot]

56. BY MURDERING 3000 INNOCENT PEOPLE?????

You're justifying this????? PERMANENT FUCKING IGNORE!!!!!!

[tomp]

60. i would bet you, if we had any way to prove it, that the u.s. has killed...

....3000 innocent people SECRETLY. and that doesn't include the millions they have killed out in the open in unjust imperialistic wars.

no one should revel in the deaths of innocent people, but neither should anyone be surprised by blowback. i'm guessing that more what the writer had in mind.

[Le Taz Hot]

61. I'm the LAST person to suggest the U.S. is NOT

guilty of horrible atrocities, both here and abroad -- and am wholely ashamed of my government's direct action in each and every one of them. But to REVEL in some blood-oath GLEE of "they deserved it!" is beyond the pale. Two wrongs never did make a right. Two wrongs often end in tragedy as it did on 9/11.

"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." Gandhi

[LiberalLovinLug]

79. I really don't think reveling is what the poster had implied.

I'm sure they were talking in a broader sense. ie. not that individual persons in the twin towers deserved what they got, but in a more abstract definition about the USA as a whole deserved it through previous behavior.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deserve
Deserve: to merit, be qualified for, or have a claim to (reward, assistance, punishment, etc.) because of actions, qualities, or situation: to deserve exile; to deserve charity; a theory that deserves consideration.

Frankly I just don't get why people have such a hard time accepting that the USA DID have it coming, or even deserved it (if in fact it was wholly perpetrated by al Qaeda or not). I don't get the defensive reaction. Blowback is a recognized term in the security community.

Its like a bully beating up kids every day, and then one day the bully is ambushed on the way home and given a dose of his own medicine. Just because logically you think the bully had it coming, doesn't mean you are "reveling" in his pain.

On 9/12 I was hoping that some small part of the news media would pick up the ball and start asking "why?", but instead we only got the reflected knee-jerk response of anger and revenge and "how dare they!" and Dubya's ridiculous statements like "they hate our freedom".

[awoke_in_2003]

87. thank you. nt

[Le Taz Hot]

91. Another one who says "we had it coming."

Do me a favor. Go up to one of the families of the victims of 9/11 and tell them that "they deserved it" and let me know what kind of response you get. Another permanent ignore.

[awoke_in_2003]

92. look, now we are both...

on "Ignore". I am all broken up about it :)

[awoke_in_2003]

86. you may have me on ignore....

but I am going to say this anyway. You cannot go around the world killing 10's and 100's of thousands of people and NOT expect a reaction. I am not justifying it, just stating the facts.

[jobycom]

85. Not neutral. More like insightful. He did NOT say we had it coming

He said that if we treat people like that, that's how they will respond. Given that we responded by slaughtering hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in Afghanistan because someone probably living there slaughtered 3000 here, I'd say he was right. The question we should ask ourselves now is, what will they now do to up the ante. Because, if our attack, in the national mind even if many here disagree with it, was a justifiable response to 9-11, what will they justify in retaliation for the slaughter we created in retaliation for the slaughter they created in retaliation for our atrocities, etcetera?

[tpsbmam]

6. Getting it yet, Mr. President? No? Hmmmm, what the hell will it take? K&R nt

[Lord Magus]

19. Did you read the article?

It specifically says Obama has done nothing to block publication of the leaked material, or to have Assange or anyone else at Wikileaks charged with a crime. Or is he to be condemned for what other politicians say?

[tpsbmam]

23. Do you think all of these people are acting in isolation without the knowledge &

approval of the President? Do you honestly think if the President didn't approve on clamping down on WikiLeaks that all of this clamping down would be going on?

[defendandprotect]

27. +1000% .....

amazing what it takes to wake up people here at DU!!

[struggle4progress]

33. Riiight! Mike Huckabee, Peter King, and Sarah Palin are Obama's puppets!

Oh, yeah! They wouldn't say anything without Obama's approval! :rofl:

[Tunkamerica]

47. I'm not agreeing with the original premise, but i will say that there can be a confluence of opinion

without any type of pressure. Palin can criticize without being forced to by Obama, right? The author can support Wikileaks without being forced to by anti-American terrorist forces.

[No Elephants]

63. Impressive sized straw man!

[tpsbmam]

70. Not talking about them and you know it. Do your own damn homework -- start with our

Secretary of State and move on from there. There is quite a lot going on with the administration that you're either choosing to ignore or you've just buried your head in the sand and refuse to look at it.

So it's my turn to laugh at your ignorance. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[struggle4progress]

84. Did you read the OP? All three names I used appear there

"Not talking about them" :eyes:

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ooglymoogly]

41. Except opening an investigation to see if any charges can be laid

and requesting extradition on yet unspecified charges and pressuring other governments to charge him and imprison him. Yeah fer sher doood. Just innocently and blithely looking on eh. Are you with fux news or what?

[No Elephants]

62. Not exactly what the article says. Article makes a much narrower claim.

"While the Obama Administration has done nothing in the courts to block the publication of any of the leaked documents, or even, as of yet, tried to indict WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange for any crime....."

[Bragi]

66. Does the administration run separate from the WH?

I ask because the State dept, DoD, the FBI and the whole security operation of the U.S government has been in fits of rage and anguish over these leaks for the last few weeks.

Do you really believe the White House isn't behind the attempts by U.S firms to shut down WikiLeaks, or the preposterous trumped up charges against Assange? Did these U.S forms just decide to act on their own, or because they got a call from clueless Joe Lieberman?

I don't believe that. I believe the Obama White House is fully behind, if not directing, this U.S-organized attack on free speech and on the free flow of information.

[yourout]

7. The downfall of the US will be directly traced to a corporate owned news media and.....

rigged/unfair election process.

[molly77]

10. What if the US wasn't really looking for a good reason to extradite

Julian Assange, but in reality were testing the waters to get a feel for public opinion? The whole meme of trying to convict under the old espionage act..Joe Lieberman wanting to pass some new legislation..looks extremely lame. Just like our govt.If you can give retroactive immunity , I guess you can pass some new laws to convict a whistle blower in the US.Send him to GITMO and torture him. But the whole world is watching.

[davidwparker]

16. Evenly more directly traced to divine judgement a la

Babylon.

[defendandprotect]

28. You can't overlook more than 50 years of right wing political violence ....

that's at the top of the list -- it came out in the open in '63 ...

"The myth of a free press died with the assassination of Pres. John F. Kennedy" --


There is only one way the right wing can rise and that's by political violence/

assassinations -- stolen elections -- and lying propaganda.


:)

[polichick]

8. "imperial arrogance and hypocrisy" - yep, that pretty much says it. nt

[Arctic Dave]

9. What keeps running around in my mind is, if these are "low level" cables

what the he'll is in the upper level cables? It makes me wonder how fucked up our government is.

[EFerrari]

11. Exactly. If even the lowest level cables drip with corruption

what must they look like up the food chain.

[Jamastiene]

14. Obviously, very.

I think that is what they are afraid of. They do not want everyone to know, for sure, what we already suspect.

[defendandprotect]

29. Once you have a "national security state" ...

everything is "F'd up" --

[No Elephants]

64. Good point!

[snagglepuss]

82. Excellent question. nt

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. Like, we've been saying it forever.

Everybody knows our country is full of hypocrisy, but you'd never know it by the way the Repubs talk. They think everyone is jealous of us.

I don't think so.

[davidwparker]

15. “is tipping over towards derangement.” - Since the gov't

knows where the data has come from, maybe they know that what hasn't come yet is very damaging indeed. Therefore, the CIA accuser of Assange, moving corporations to stop payment, discrediting, .... and moving towards derangement.

WE know what Wikileaks has, IMO.

[NeoConsSuck]

18. Bingo!

Only a tiny fraction of the cables have been released. Wonder if Assange is saving the best for last.

[Voice for Peace]

38. My understanding is that Assange is thinking widely and long-term.

That in the long run, having Wikileaks and other internet
whistleblower sites will illuminate things to such an extent
that government and corporations, accustomed to getting away
with lying, will be forced to either become honest or disappear.

I am impressed, inspired by his vision of actual transparency
in our world. I wish him safety and the very best success.

[caseymoz]

17. As I thought, the backlash will start in Europe.

Meanwhile Assange is being held in London right in time for angry students to pick up his cause, too.

There will probably be protests throughout Europe spreading here.

[EFerrari]

31. I was thinking that this was a stupid time to move against him

with all those young people already in the mood. :)

[laughingliberal]

20. K & R nt

[struggle4progress]

21. It's great to see all these UK pundits, who could be prosecuted under

Section 5 of the Official Secrets Act 1989 for disclosing or publishing UK information analogous to the US information from wikileaks, moaning about press freedom in the US

[molly77]

24. struggle4progress

The Guardian has a lot more extensive coverage than the NYTimes. Lots of updates.NYTimes , you know, will put a certain spin on it.

[struggle4progress]

25. Ah, but you do not understand my comment. The Guardian is, indeed,

one of the really great newspapers and has been that for a long time. But in the UK, disclosures about government operations are limited by the Official Secrets Act. The Guardian is, of course, free to publish leaked US government documents -- but I think it is not free in the same way to publish leaked UK government documents

[EFerrari]

30. So their law is written, ours simply imposed by abuse of power. n/t

[struggle4progress]

32. Press law in the UK is different from press law in the US, and the

laws allowing the government to hide information or prosecute dissemination of information are different

We fight a continuing fight here in the US for freedom of information, with the constant threat of rollback; perhaps you remember when the Intelligence Identities Protection Act was passed during the Reagan era, in order to shut down useful publications like Counterspy and the Covert Action Information Bulletin -- justified at the time by the plausible-sounding (but almost certainly incorrect claim) that such publications were responsible for the murder of a CIA station-chief in Greece. We'll face another such fight in the 112th Congress, and "defending against Wikileaks" will form the propaganda basis of the attack

I think the Chomsky-Herman model outlined in "Manufacturing Consent" describes well the work-a-day techniques towards shaping public awareness and memory of "facts" in the US: one can usually dig around and find the actual facts, but they're flushed from everyone's memory by a firehouse of misinformation and misleading trivia, all generated more or less automatically by the gradual but systematic filtration of facts by various other interests

[EFerrari]

34. It doesn't matter what the law is if our government abuses their power

and shuts down free speech whenever their shorts get wadded up. And as we have seen for the last week or so, they can bully abroad just as well as they can here.

[struggle4progress]

36. "Let me give you a word of the philosophy of reform. The whole history of the progress of human

liberty shows that all concessions yet made to her august claims have been born of earnest struggle. The conflict has been exciting, agitating, all-absorbing, and for the time being, putting all other tumults to silence. It must do this or it does nothing. If there is no struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet deprecate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."

Frederick Douglass, 1857

[EFerrari]

40. “The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression.” WEB DuBois

[blackspade]

83. Awesome quote!

[daleo]

90. Great quotation.

One to remember.

[tavalon]

58. Correct!

[Ghost Dog]

52. That is so.

The Official Secrets Act 1989 (c. 6) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. It repeals and replaces section 2 of the Official Secrets Act 1911. It is said to have removed the public interest defence created by that section.

...

Section 5: further disclosure or publication of information obtained in contravention of other sections of the act. It allows, for example, the prosecution of newspapers or journalists who publish secret information leaked to them by a crown servant in contravention of section 3. This section applies to everyone, regardless of whether they are a government employee, or whether they have signed the act.

/... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Secrets_Act_1989

I have signed my understanding and acceptance of the terms of the 1911 Act myself, during periods of past employment with Ministries of the UK Gov. - Something I have not done since well before 1989.

At least, that law is quite clear.

Nb. 'crown servant' is the term employed to refer to any and all government employees here in this anachronistic 'monarchy'.

[Stella_Artois]

93. In theory perhaps

In practice, the number of leaked documents reaching the press, especially around the time of the last election, makes me think that the risk of prosecution is not as high as you may think.

[StClone]

22. Authoritarianism strikes again

Americans follow this to a tee. Amazing!

Full text on line free PDF: http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

Quickie on Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism

[defendandprotect]

26. Thank you !!!

“The response has been vicious, coordinated and potentially comprehensive,” he said, and presents a “delicious irony” that “it is now the so-called liberal democracies that are clamoring to shut WikiLeaks down.”

[Voice for Peace]

35. loving this

if there is a chance to derail all the cheat and deceit, this is it. Or at least, half of it.

[Quantess]

39. As if all Europeans think exactly alike!

This title is a broad brush generalization, so I unrecommend just for that. :thumbsdown:

[entanglement]

44. As if the European ruling class is any less venal, corrupt or criminal

[awoke_in_2003]

48. "a post-9/11 obsession with secrecy that contradicts American principles"

plus 1 Billion

[DeSwiss]

51. K&R

So Mike Huckabee wants Bradley Manning executed, eh? A man who has yet to be convicted of anything. This, from the former Arkansas governor who pardoned more than one serial killer when they swore they found Jebus. Those he pardons or lets go. But for an unconvicted defender of free speech, him he wants dead.


- No one ever said that staying to the right of Sarah was gonna be easy, did they Mike???

[GreenTea]

53. 90% of the bullshit is from the lying decitful, slimy republicans, Gingrich & the rest of

the dishonest who despise whistle-blowers who expose these republican thugs!

[Fruittree]

54. I'm sorry but isn't it Britain which also has troops in Iraq?

[No Elephants]

67. Thanks to us, yes. Why does that mean they can't criticize our reaction to wikileaks?

[Creative]

55. Europeans Criticize U.S. for __________________________

:boring:

[No Elephants]

65. Please see Reply 69.

[velvet]

57. Australia's Prime Minister has called Wikileaks a criminal act

Unfortunately Julia Gillard didn't know what law had been broken and she's now taking her "pre-Christmas" holidays, so she's off the hook for the time being.

Some of our other pollies are taking a fairly circumspect and even laid-back approach. One or two aren't and of course I shudder to think what the tabloids and shock-jocks are saying, I'd rather not look. There's been a bit of a side-act caused by the release of cables exchanged between a senior government member and the US embassy. Debate has ensued over whether the correspondence was a bit too information-rich on our end.

[xchrom]

59. recommend

[cowcommander]

69. Even Putin is defending Wikileaks

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, questioning the reliability of leaked U.S. cables referring to his nation as undemocratic and corrupt, said the fact that Assange is in custody shows the West has its own problems with democracy.

"Why was Mr. Assange hidden in prison?" Putin asked at a news conference. "Is this democracy?"

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/12/09/wikileaks-putin-human-rights.html#ixzz17iiTLJDT

[TatonkaJames]

71. They're right of course

Who want's to kill someone for telling the truth ? Those are the deranged people.
If he did something that harms another person I say put him in jail, but this is
just an embarrassment for the US, so a few people like those mentioned show the
world how ignorant we are.
When are we going to start killing people who re in leadership positions and say stupid things ?

[Swampguana]

72. Its always good to hear an outside perspective.

The US doesn't listen to what the world has to say or respect what's said.

[Freddie Stubbs]

78. Assange is currently in a European jail, not an American one

[Bragi]

81. A lot of Euros just feel sorry for the U.S

I'm a Canadian, I travel in Europe a fair bit for work, and have relatives in the UK.

In the last couple of years, I've observed that a lot of people there seem to have gone beyond disliking the U.S, and now tend to just feel sorry for Americans.

Especially since Obama's election, I think it's become more obvious to people abroad that it wasn't just about Bush, that Americans are badly divided amongst themselves, and that the U.S economy and political systems have simply broken down.

I honestly don't think many take pleasure from seeing America unable to grapple with just about every major problem it faces. It's more like pity now.

The stunningly repressive and over-the-top reaction of the U.S government to Wikileaks is probably seen as just another example of the inability of the U.S to respond coherently to any difficulty.

[glinda]

88. No tipping... it is deranged and evil. Something is very very wrong.