US House likely to pass reworked tax deal-aide

[Still a Democrat]

Source: Reuters

The U.S. House of Representatives will likely pass next week, with some changes, the framework of President Barack Obama's plan to extend tax cuts, a senior Democratic aide said on Friday.

The aide said before they vote, House Democrats aim to tighten estate tax provisions that are in a proposed Senate version of the plan.


The House will likely begin consideration of the measure within days of its anticipated Senate passage next week, the aide said.

...

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN105272020101210

[Beetwasher]

1. So Will Pelosi Get The Vitriol Obama Does When This Thing Passes?

I wonder.

[n2doc]

3. yes, if it is the same package with different names n/t

[Beetwasher]

4. Yeah, We'll See, Somehow I Think There Will Be All Sorts Of Moved Goalposts

At that point and she won't be nearly as bashed.

[Still a Democrat]

5. She's not the President, can't expect her to influence anything

:sarcasm:

[robinlynne]

9. you betcha. (no sarcasm intended. ) She will deserve it if she does this.

[robinlynne]

10. Is it vitriol, or common sense and sanity? This bill is TERRIBLE for our country. bad bad move.

[Beetwasher]

12. Tell It To The Unemployed

n/t

[laughingliberal]

21. I'm long term unemployed & I oppose this. A 13 month extension of UI doesn't make up for setting

up SS for cuts.

[Beetwasher]

22. Yeah, It's 23 Dimensional Chess Set Up To Fuck You

:eyes:

[laughingliberal]

26. Your concern for us unemployed people who are also counting on SS is heartwarming. nt

[Name removed]

28. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[girl gone mad]

53. Are the 99ers not unemployed in your little world?

Try selling your bullshit spin to them.

[Beetwasher]

54. Well Then Fuck Everyone Else Right?

unless u get everything. How would u do it, genius?

[girl gone mad]

63. You mean how do you do something that every other Congress has done..

throughout history?

Impossible, obviously.

[Beetwasher]

65. IOW Yr Clueless How To Get It Thru Congress, Got It

[laughingliberal]

19. If that 'payroll tax holiday' Trojan Horse stays in she will see vitriol from me, for sure. nt

[sirthomas66]

24. Me too. This is by far the most important drawback of this horrible

tax deal, but by the time people understand this, it will be too late to do anything about it. The Democrats having approved this will give added leverage to the Republicans to perpetuate it. And that is what is going to happen; this is not some educated guess--And when it happens, watch everyone say, "Gosh, I never knew that's what was going to happen..." It's insanity. But you'll know, laughing liberal. I know that because I have read your posts for years.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[laughingliberal]

27. I fully expect in April when the President is telling us about the 'tough choices' ...

'we' have to make you'll be here fighting against the cuts to SS. Right?

[Beetwasher]

29. I'll Take REALITY, Like Jan 1, UE STOPS For Millions, Meanwhile, You're Reading Tea Leaves On SS

and pushing that bullshit spin as something other than bullshit spin.

[laughingliberal]

30. UE already stopped. Taxes go up Jan 1. Bernie Sanders is reading the same tea leaves I am.

As expected, no commitment to help fight cuts to SS benefits from you when that fight starts.

BTW, part of that whole mess is likely to be some privatization of Medicare. I'm wondering what your stand on that will be.

[Beetwasher]

31. Fear Mongering Bullshit. So It's Ok To Fear Monger About This Bullshit 23 Dimensional Chess To Steal

SS, but people who point out the end of UE benefits, they are the one's fear mongering? Holy cow what a load of crap.

[laughingliberal]

32. Please show where I accused anyone of 'fear mongering.' I did not. You're wrong on the facts.

UE benefits stopped last week. Taxes go up Jan 1. And none of that changes the fact that the payroll tax holiday will be one more weapon used against SS.

I've called all my reps today to tell them I stand with Bernie Sanders against the payroll tax holiday.

[Beetwasher]

33. Fear Mongering Bullshit Is Fear Mongering Bullshit, People Need UE NOW

Not scare tactics about some secret plot of Obama's to steal SS.

[laughingliberal]

34. I stand with Bernie Sanders. And UI extensions expired days ago.

http://www.ktvn.com/Global/story.asp?S=13599558

Posted: Dec 01, 2010 4:38 PM PST
Updated: Dec 08, 2010 5:43 PM PST

Channel 2 News
The deadline is here. Congress failed to reach an agreement about extending unemployment benefits for thousands of Americans.

Federal benefits will be phased out beginning today and, as it stands right now, the extended state benefits will expire for everyone December 11th.

The Department of Employment, Training and Rehabilitation encourages the unemployed to continue filing claims, in case Congress changes its mind.

Learn more in tonight's "Money Watch Q & A" segment. Theresa Nicks is the Unemployment Insurance Program Chief and she will be taking your calls from 5-6pm.

Or, please visit www.nvdetr.org for continuously updated

I notice you fail to show where I accused anyone of fear mongering.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[laughingliberal]

36. So, you were wrong about when the UI extensions expired? nt

[Beetwasher]

37. It's Even Worse If They're Already Expired

What's your point? So what? I was thinking of the tax breaks when I said Jan. 1. Big fucking deal. People need UE now to feed their families, sorry you have a problem with that.

[laughingliberal]

38. I see no reason why a simple change to the deal couldn't be made. Restore the Make Work Pay credit

instead of doing the payroll tax holiday. It's simple. It doesn't cost any more and it helps more poor people.

[Beetwasher]

39. Well I Suggest you push for that

it aint worth millions of people losing UI over IMO.

[laughingliberal]

40. No one here is talking about trading the UI extensions for anything. I've called both my

Senators today to tell them I don't support the payroll tax holiday and I prefer the restoration of the Making Work Pay tax credit which helps more poor people.

Bernie Sanders is the last person who could be accused of wanting the poor to suffer. He's about the only one who ever bothers to mention us.

[Beetwasher]

41. I Guarantee you at some point he will allow the bill to proceed

because he does care. Hopefuly he'll have improved the bill.

it doesn't matter if you talk about trading UI. Repubs are. You tell me how to get them to allow the extension NOW so people can pay their bills NOW.

[laughingliberal]

43. All I'm asking is to get rid of the payroll tax holiday. Replace it with MWP or ditch it, altogether

It is a trick to make SS look as if it's running a deficit. By the end of this year, the benefit age will be up to 69 and people who work for a living are screwed for all time.

Something will pass, I'm sure, before Christmas. But this BS of waiting until everyone's desperate in order to pass legislation with time bombs in it is, to use your favorite word, bullshit. People need help now so we have to hurry up and pass something that sets them up to be screwed worse later.

Then again, along with SS cuts will probably come some form of the Republican plan to privatize Medicare. Would be a great deal for the hospitals.

[Beetwasher]

47. No Its A Boogey Man Not A Trick And HOW Will u Get UE Now?

U have no plan to get it done before Repubs take over the house and then its too late.

[laughingliberal]

48. I'm gonna go with Bernie Sanders on this. You are free to disagree.

It's odd I saw where you said you had nothing but respect for the man. Yet, you have no problem spending a day here using all manner of profanity and insults against those who are with him in his assessment of this issue.

[Beetwasher]

50. Bernie Is Allowing The Bill To Proceed

did he accuse Obama of tricking people? Source please.

[laughingliberal]

52. Here's what Sanders said yesterday:

"This payroll tax holiday concept, as I understand it, originally started with conservative Republicans. I know the Vice President recently made the point this was originally a Republican idea. Why did the Republicans come up with this idea? These are exactly the same people who do not believe in Social Security. These are the same people who either want to make significant cuts in Social Security or else they want to privatize Social Security entirely.

Here is the point: They understand that if we divert funding that is supposed to go into the Social Security trust fund, which is what this payroll tax holiday does, this is money that goes into the Social Security trust fund that is now being diverted, cut back, in order to provide financial support for workers–but that is a lot of money not going into the trust fund. What the President and others are saying is not to worry because that money will be covered by the general fund. That is a very bad and dangerous precedent. <...>"

http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2010/12/11/full-congressional-record-transcript-of-bernie-sanders-filibuster/

I haven't seen anything about Sanders 'allowing the bill to go forward.' Source, please?

Here's what he is on record as saying:

"I will do everything in my power to stand up for the American middle class and defeat this agreement."

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/12/07-12

It's not about 'accusing' the President. It's about explaining to people the eventual consequences of this proposal.

Here's more about the consequences of the payroll tax holiday instead of the Making Work Pay tax credit. The lower income workers taxes will go up:

Obama-Republican Deal Could Mean Tax Hike For One In Three Workers

WASHINGTON - The tax deal reached between President Obama and congressional Republicans could mean a higher tax bill for roughly one in three workers as a result of the Social Security tax cut Republicans pushed as a replacement for the current Making Work Pay tax credit.

The Making Work Pay credit gives workers up to $400, paid out at 8 percent of income, meaning that anybody making at least $5,000 gets the full amount -- and gets as much as anybody else. Its replacement knocks two percentage points off the payroll tax cut, meaning a worker would need to make $20,000 to get a $400 break. Of the nation's roughly 150 million workers, around 50 million make less than $20,000 and will see at least some increase as a result.

Additionally, roughly a quarter of 20 million state and local workers pay no payroll tax, because they have a separate pension system. Some of those workers with children will benefit from the extension of other tax credits, but overall will have less money in their pocket.

Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.), co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, said many House liberals were opposed to the payroll tax cut because of its effect on the poorest workers. Progressives are also concerned that the tax cut will become permanent and undermine Social Security's funding stream and political support over time.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/10/obamarepublican-deal-coul_n_795187.html

I'm against the payroll tax holiday and want the Making Work Pay tax credit restored. Shouldn't be such a big deal, should it?

[Beetwasher]

55. umm he's not fillibustering so he's allowing it thru

if u think u can get the bill thru the Senate the way u think it should be, then convince congress and do it otherwise yr blowing smoke.

[laughingliberal]

56. Source, please? He has not said he will vote for cloture. nt

[Beetwasher]

57. Doesnt matter he's not fillibustering

if u claim he is, u source it. It will proceed.

[laughingliberal]

58. Voting against cloture is voting for a filibuster . It takes 41 to vote against cloture to sustain

...a filibuster. Voting against cloture means you are voting not to cut off debate and not to allow the vote bill to proceed to the floor for a vote.

If 40 others vote against cloture with him, the bill won't get to the floor. If not, it will. He only promised he would do everything in his power to stop the deal. What is in his power is to vote against the bill 'going forward' as you put it.

Not sure why I would have to source that. Most people know this information. Voting against cloture is voting for a filibuster. If 41 people vote against cloture, the bill doesn't get a vote.

It may proceed but it won't be because Sanders voted in favor of allowing it.

[Beetwasher]

59. Nope, he ain't stopping it, if he wanted to he could

and u still haven't explained how u would get it thru the way u want it.

[laughingliberal]

60. That doesn't even make sense: "Nope, he ain't stopping it, if he wanted to he could"

I'm hoping enough will join him to defeat the payroll tax holiday...and restore the tax credit for the working poor. I've called my reps, told them how I stand on it. That is really all I can do, now-hope they will make a few changes to make the bill less harmful.

And, now, I'm through and you are free to take your last shot. I stand with Bernie Sanders and hope he is sucessful in getting a better deal.

[Beetwasher]

61. So IOW u Have No Idea HOW To Get Yr plan Passed, Got It

n/t

[rfranklin]

2. that is the least of the evils in this package....

Please stop the attack on Social Security, Mr. President!

[HuckleB]

7. +1

[Still a Democrat]

6. Wow, getting unrec'd?

I wonder if folks are hoping this isn't true or aren't prepared to deal with the inevitable passage, with Nancy's support.

[pscot]

8. Are you admitting your post

is just a thinly veiled attack on the Speaker?

[robinlynne]

11. I think people are responding to your critcism of our criticism of the BAD TAX bill.

[Still a Democrat]

14. That's a news story, not my opinion n/t

[robinlynne]

16. When you say vitriol, you are expressing your opinion. Most of us and most Americans

disagree with you on this issue.

[Still a Democrat]

18. Never said that n/t

[robinlynne]

20. oh sorry. It was another poster.

[Still a Democrat]

23. No problem - here's my thing

People can object if they like. I despise the cuts for the wealthy and have big concerns about how this adds to the debt - which ultimately can get balanced, at least in part, on Scoial Security and Medicare.

It's fair to argue Obama could have fought harder or smarter. It's fair to hate the deal and prefer just letting the tax cuts expire.

I just find the prevailing conclusion that he's now just a conservative corporate schill a bit much. He has condemned what we do - the cuts for the wealthy - and tried to maximize the amount going into the pockets of middle and lower class folks. To me, it's a stimulus still needed by a fragile economy. It could be done in a far better way, but the reality is he needs GOP buy in.

It's easy for Pelosi and company to object - but in the end, I think you'll see her brought to the table with minor modifications and this thing will pass, imperfect as it is. And frankly I think part of the reason for her outrage is to pacify the left.

[robinlynne]

42. I see it differently. But that's what a democracy is all about.

[No Elephants]

44. LOL!

[sirthomas66]

13. Again, if the SS tax holiday is allowed to stand, it will end the Democratic

Party, as Sam Seder said yesterday.

[hay rick]

15. Framing the issue.

After the President floated his repulsive trial balloon, the media are now doing the dirty work on behalf of their betters.

Summary of reporting on the features of Obama's surrender/betrayal/"compromise" to date:

Extension of tax cuts for the rich: we are angry, but because the Republicans will never relent, we know we are going to get raped (again) so we should just lay back and enjoy it.

Estate tax: focus outrage and "compromise" here. Make a great show of insisting on raising the top rate and/or reducing minimun estate size. Our "representatives" at work. Ain't democracy great?

Payroll tax holiday: call it STIMULUS STIMULUS STIMULUS and ignore the fact that it is a direct and obvious attempt to undermine Social Security by turning the minimum funding needed to sustain the program into a TAX HIKE one short year from now.

[sirthomas66]

17. Yep. Pure insanity.

[wordpix]

51. since most senators are of the rich class, they are just helping themselves

with this tax cut for the rich, both Dems and Repugs. We need to understand this.

Even if they weren't born rich or made themselves rich in business/Wall St., they are getting rich in a system where they're rewarded handsomely by the rich if the senators will only protect the former's interests. Those who started out poor or middle class can barely remember what it was like, I'm sure.

This sucks. Wish there were more like Bernie Sanders and Sherrod Brown.

[No Elephants]

45. Public option deja vu. Only this time, Obama learned not to label this "a sliver."

[Pistarkle]

46. I hope Reuters is right...

I hate the thought of having to compromise on the tax cuts, but no compromise is only in your corner when YOU have the upper hand. Right now the Republicans HAVE the upper hand – more than enough “no” votes in the Senate to keep tax cuts for the wealthy in ANY compromise. If Democratic candidates campaigned on tax cuts for the wealthy during the 2010 Campaign as the President suggested, perhaps 90% rather than 40% of eligible voters would have voted in the midterms and the Democrats would have the upper hand regarding the tax cut controversy, but that’s past history.

Because of the midterm results, Republicans will be in charge of the House and the 60 vote filibuster-proof Senate on the side of Democrats will be out the door come January 1st. At least now a compromise will benefit the middle class, the poor, and the unemployed and small businesses. The President HAD TO FIGHT for the extension of unemployment benefits, tax cuts for the middle class, payroll tax cuts, and incentives for small businesses to create jobs. The Republicans ONLY wanted tax cuts for the wealthy. It’s not the best of both worlds, but it’s better than nothing at all. After January 1st when the Republicans are in charge of the House, you can be guaranteed that those benefits will be ‘gone with the wind’.

WE criticized the President and Democrats when we didn’t get the public option but WE didn’t fight for it. We let the Tea Party and health insurance industry do ALL of the squawking and we didn’t start raising Cain until after the fact. WE must deliver the upper hand. WE must speak out in ONE voice. WE must shame the Republicans into ending those tax cuts THROUGHOUT the next two years. WE must hold local rallies. WE must fight for our rights in local AND national newspapers, internet, radio and media outlets. WE must email, fax and call Republican Congressional offices EVERY DAY. We must let Tea Party-backed Republicans know that if they continue to fight for the wealthy and ignore the middle class, the poor and the unemployed, WE WILL vote them out in 2012 and WE must mean it!

[mimi85]

64. Absolutely

As I posted elsewhere, the end is not nigh - we've lived through far worse than this (at least I have, being perhaps older than many on here) and the sun still came up the next day. I'm definitely not crazy about some of this package, but I feel it's time to be pragmatic about the subject. And, yes, to be selfish, an extension of UE would be unbelievably helpful for us as my husband's just ran out - or is it selfish to buy the kids a present or two? Guess that's for each of us to decide.

Pistarkle, I agree, WE need to do some of the work - I think it's been a long time since people had to (or better, choose to) actually become the foot soldiers or do much sacrificing.

Odd that we didn't hear all this handwringing when people seemed more concerned about having the latest SUV or mini-mansion. Hmmm.....

I know that, shamefully, I did more signing online petitions & sending robo-faxes to politicians than when I managed our local Dem HQ (strange, but fun - such a conservative area in SoCal) for several weeks in 2004. It was so gratifying meeting actual like-minded people face to face and not as a username. Granted, the net played a GIANT role in the '08 elections and while I wouldn't want to go backwards, I just think we DO need to do more.

Again, Pistarkle, you get my vote for post of the day. There seems to be a lot of crying here to the choir. I rarely post, but I sometimes wonder what the righties (as Ed would say) think reading some of the cannibalism going on here a lot lately. Instead of jumping up & down about our own, let's get going telling the Grand Ole Tea Party what we think!

[ProudDad]

49. Propaganda piece written by 2 inside the beltway stenographers...

The propaganda war to pass this piece of shit begins! :puke:

Kabuki Theater in the USAmerican Empire...

[Hardrada]

62. I agree. They are just whistling past the graveyard.

where we hope the DLC plans will soon be buried.