US 'tried to stop missile delivery to Venezuela'

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Reuters

Monday, December 13, 2010
US 'tried to stop missile delivery to Venezuela'
Reuters, Washington

The United States tried to stop delivery of Russian anti-aircraft missiles to Venezuela in 2009 amid concerns it could pass them on to Marxist guerrillas in Colombia or Mexican drug gangs, The Washington Post said yesterday, citing diplomatic cables from WikiLeaks.

Venezuela, where President Hugo Chavez heads a strongly anti-American government, received at least 1,800 of the SA-24 shoulder-fired missiles from Russia, the Post said, citing UN arms control data.

Secret US cables said Washington was concerned about the acquisition by Caracas of Russian arms, including attack helicopters, Sukhoi fighter jets and 100,000 Kalashnikov rifles, the newspaper reported.

It quoted a US State Department cable on Aug. 10, 2009 to embassies in Europe and South America as saying Russian arms sales to Venezuela totalled "over $5 billion last year and growing." Concern about Spanish plans to sell aircraft and patrol boats to Venezuela were also cited in the cable.

Read more: http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=165865

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. The Mexican Drug Gangs have very American made

Stingers....

No, not something popular to say...

[molly77]

4. WE interfered in Mexico's elections too.

[AlphaCentauri]

2. Saudi is getting a $60 billions arms deal

Yet, even though 15 of the 19 suicide hijackers as well Osama bin Laden, the head of al-Qaida himself, were citizens of Saudi Arabia, our government is currently willing to provide weaponry to this country. And so far, there has been no significant outcry from Congress, even though it had 30 days to raise any objections to this deal. If our government attacked Iraq and Afghanistan, then why is it making an arms deal with Saudi Arabia?



http://articles.mcall.com/2010-12-02/opinion/mc-saudi-arabia-arms-kermalli-ithink-20101202_1_arms-deal-saudi-arabia-iraq-and-afghanistan

[molly77]

5. If there were an outcry, how would we know?

Do you think MSM would carry it?

[sce56]

8. But the House of Suad is our friend! They would not harm us

:sarcasm: For those that do not get it!

[davidinalameda]

35. using that analogy

is like blaming all Muslims for 9/11

how can you blame all Saudis for 9/11

[AlphaCentauri]

42. No I'm just concerned that those arm could end up in the hands of radicals

as the US is concern that Venezuela could pass them on to Marxist Guerrillas

[Judi Lynn]

3. George Bush had Bolivia's missiles removed just before Evo Morales won by a landslide.

US Denies Removal of Bolivian Missiles Was Secret
By David Gollust
Washington
23 December 2005

The United States denied Thursday that it removed anti-aircraft missiles from Bolivia without the knowledge of top officials in La Paz. The State Department says the operation was at the request of Bolivian authorities and in line with an Organization of American States resolution.

Officials here acknowledge that the United States removed a small number of MANPADS, man-portable air defense system, from Bolivia earlier this year as part of a broader effort to keep the shoulder launch missiles out of the hands of terrorists.

But they are denying charges from Bolivia, which figured in that country's presidential election campaign, that the operation was conducted without the knowledge of senior Bolivian officials.

Bolivian President-elect Evo Morales, the victor in last Sunday's election, has alleged that the 28 Chinese-made missiles were spirited out of the country in June in an operation he described as international intervention.

More:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2005/12/mil-051223-voa01.htm

~~~~~
In October 2005, presidential candidate Morales denounced the
deactivation or destruction by the U.S. military of an undetermined
quantity (press sources estimate between nineteen and 31) of
Chinese-made surface-to-air missiles of the Bolivian armed
forces after they were removed from the country. While these
allegations were denied at first by the military command, the
army’s head, General Marcelo Antezana, admitted (and then
denied) deactivation of the missiles out of concern for Morales’
possible election. On 9 March 2006, former President Eduardo
Rodríguez, former Defence Minister Gonzalo Méndez and
former Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces Marco
Antonio Justiniano were formally accused of high treason after
an investigation by the attorney general’s office. La Razón, 10
March 2006.

http://www.crisisgroup.org/~/media/Files/latin-america/boliva/18_bolivia_s_rocky_road_to_reforms.ashx

~~~~~
Bolivia hands over its missiles to the United States

Evo Morales, “cocalero” and MAS (Movement towards Socialism) leader, and presidential candidate for elections in Bolivia scheduled for December 18, recently stated that 28 MHN-5 surface-to-air missiles made in China had disappeared. The missiles were in Bolivian arsenals and handed over to the United States for “deactivation”.

Morales indicated he was planning to file a lawsuit against the current acting president Eduardo Rodríguez and his minister of defense Gonzalo Méndez Gutiérrez, for “betraying the homeland” (a popular uprising to overthrow the former president Carlos Mesa from power in June 2005). In order to justify why the Chinese missiles were sent to the United States, the Bolivian authorities mentioned that such equipment was obsolete, and their handling was dangerous. It seems, though, that they had been acquired in China in the early 90’s and were in perfect condition.

Furthermore, they were the only missiles that the Bolivian army had, and whose lack of ordnance is chronic. In that case, why giving those weapons away?

Used to different forms of interference in Latin America, in 2004, the United States had already tried unsuccessfully to convince the former president Carlos Mesa to hand over such armaments, said the former Foreign Minister Juan Ignacio Siles. The imminent presidential decision and fear over Evo Morales’ victory are obviously the factors that precipitated the events.

More:
http://www.voltairenet.org/article133814.html

~~~~~
23 December 2005
Evo Morales faces his first problem: what happened to Bolivia's air defence missiles?
President-Elect Evo Morales of Bolivia met the outgoing President Eduardo Rodriguez to discuss the handover of power yesterday. However, the new President faces a problem with the USA even before taking office. Put simply, what happened to Bolivia's air-defence missiles?

The country had 28 or 30 Chinese built HN-SA hand-held anti-aircraft missiles that seem to have vanished from the military's arsenal. By all accounts they were stolen by the American Embassy with the conivence of Bolivian military officers, during May or June of this year. It is reported that they were taken aboard an unmarked C-130 transport aircraft and removed from the country.

When Evo Morales first made these allegations last month, the Bolivian army claimed that the missiles had been disposed of as part of an "annual disposal of obsolete equipment," and the army also claimed that the weapons were still in the country. However, army reports which were released this month show that the missiles, which cost Bolivia about £1,000,000, were well-maintained and had ten more years of service left in them.

At this point I fully expect some idiotic hand-shandyist for war to write in and tell me that 30 missiles will not protect anyone from the American armed forces. Don't bother, lads, because I know this. Besides, it's not the point.

The point is that the theft proves that the United States has pretty thoroughly infiltrated the Bolivian army. Should a future President Morales act against America's interests, and he has already said that he will, then the Americans can remove him as they have done so many before him. They would not need to send in the marines, they could set the scene as they did in Chile and then leave it to the locals to do their dirty work for them.

More:
http://www.the-exile.info/2005_12_01_archive.html

~~~~~
MAS Denounces Serious US Interference in Bolivia
Prensa Latina || October 19, 2005

Bolivian presidential candidate Evo Morales denounced Wednesday that troops at the service of the US seized 28 land-air missiles supplied by China to Bolivia and sent them to the United States.

In his news conference, Morales said that "patriotic soldiers" who opposed the operation that took place a few days ago reported the despicable interference to his political party, Movement towards Socialism (MAS).

Consulted by phone, presidential spokesman Julio Pemintel refused to comment and said he had requested information on the matter from Defense Minister Gonzalo Molina.

Morales explained that a Bolivian commando force commanded by elements from the US Embassy and the CIA were involved in the seizure.

He denounced that the group raided an army facility in Viacha, near La Paz, where the missiles were seized and taken to the airport or to El Alto military base, and then were smuggled out of the country by air, supposedly bound for the US.

The weapons had been provided to Bolivia by the People's Republic of China, in accord with bilateral military cooperation agreements.

More:
http://www.knowledgedrivenrevolution.com/Articles/200510/19_US_Bolivia.htm

[AwareOne]

6. The Soviets lost hundreds of helicopters in Afghanistan

when the U.S. provided the Afghans with AA missiles. Once source says 333 Helios and 133 fixed wing aircraft, many shot down with U.S. provided missiles between 1979 and 1989. Thousands of Soviet troops killed courtesy of the U.S. . Do you think they might want some pay back?

[guzzie]

10. Nail, Hammer, Head - throw in GEorgia.

[Lagomorph]

37. I thought that was paybacks for the 3000 helicopters...

...we lost to Soviet weapons in Vietnam.

[GreenTea]

7. Bullshit!

Disgusting!

The only real concerns the corporate fascist who own and run the US government have is how they are going to get their hands on the huge Venezuelans oil reserves and then to enslave the people for cheap labor - the rich capitalist have done this to these central & south American regions for centuries and their hope & plans are to do the same throughout the world including the US.

Corporate fascist intend to illegally & covertly overthrow and control ALL democratically elected progressive socialist countries in the region, just as they have been doing in the US for decades as the rich get even more filthy richer....Continuing of unregulated capitalism, the corporate fascist stealing of resources, exploiting the land, creating cheap labor, union busting for their own incessant greed.

The more democratically elected Venezuela resist and protects itself militarily, by strengthening itself from capitalist the more difficult it becomes for the imperialist corporate capitalist to overthrow and steal everything "liberating" it as their own.....hence the never-ending lies we see from right-wing medias never-ending stories (AP) trashing the region's democratically elected leaders, meant only to instill lies, fear & hate in the gullible, uninformed, and easily confused, meant to misdirect Americans thinking in order to justify any US force to over-thrown when they decide it's time for war for corporate profit, making way for imperialism to take control of the region.

We will blindly as always just accept it all from the capitalist as truth.

One only has to look at the bullshit US relationship with Colombia's AUC "One of the AUC's targets has been Colombian trade unions. - "We kill trade unionists because they interfere with people working." an open mind can easily see what the US is up to - using "drugs" as one excuse to oppress (screaming "communism" as another) for all their subversive lying tactics to regain imperialistic control in area's they've lost via free democratic elections that the people have decide on democratic-socialism for all, being more fair than capitalism & riches for the few!

Democratic thinking doesn't go over very well with the corporate fascist - (it just might catch on elsewhere, even in the US.) The corporations need to lie, brain-wash the uneducated, the uninformed with fear while directing us to believe that their enemies are our enemies as well - Fucking oppressive capitalist assholes' BULLSHIT!



-"Difference between socialism and communism is that communists assert that both capitalism and private ownership of the means of production must be done away with as soon as possible in order to make sure a classless society, the communist ideal, is formed. Socialists, however, see capitalism as a possible part of the ideal state and believe that socialism can exist in a capitalist society. In fact, one of the ideas of socialism is that everyone within the society will benefit from capitalism as much as possible as long as the capitalism is controlled somehow by a centralized planning system.

Another difference between socialism and communism is centered on who controls the structure of economy. Where socialism generally aims to have as many people as possible influence how the economy works, communism seeks to limit that number to a smaller group"-

[The abyss]

9. Good story recommend!

[Peace Patriot]

11. The U.S. arms itself to the teeth, to dominate the world, then gets all pissypants when

when the world responds by trying to arm itself against U.S. aggression, bulling, interference and outright, preemptive war.

It would be funny if it weren't so Armageddony.

----

Venezuela has every reason to want some modern planes and rifles with which to defend itself (--although its military expenditures are far lower than, say, Brazil). It has been surrounded by U.S. military bases--in the Dutch Antilles, right off Venezuela's Caribbean oil coast, at numerous military bases in Colombia, which has a long border with Venezuela, including a new base that overlooks the Gulf of Venezuela (major Venezuelan oil works) only 20 miles from Venezuela's border, bases in Panama and Honduras (recently secured by a U.S. supported rightwing coup d'etat), the newly reconstituted U.S. 4th Fleet in the Caribbean (mothballed since WW II), major U.S. military maneuvers in supposedly de-militarized Costa Rica--to mention just the main components of the U.S. "Southern Command"--plus relentless, lying, propagandistic bullshit about Venezuela, non-stop over the last half decade, by the State Department, the CIA and the corpo-fascist press, all primed to be escalated into war hysteria if and when our multinational corporate/war profiteer rulers decide to move on it.

The U.S. has NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to be embargoing Cuba for events that occurred 50 years ago, nor interfering with another democracy's military purchases, which started by the U.S./Bushwhacks forbidding anyone to sell Venezuela replacement parts for military purchases from U.S. manufacturers, then escalated to trying to prevent Venezuela from repairing/replacing aging machinery and weapons with purchases from other countries. The arrogance is unbelievable. And the motives behind the arrogance are very, very worrisome.

However, most Latin American governments are not playing U.S. games any more, and there is a very pervasive and strong movement among Latin American governments to pull together to resist U.S. interference, to have each other's backs and to build Latin American sovereignty, self-rule and social justice, on a basis of peace and cooperation. I think this movement will prevail, for all U.S. Bushwhack and Obama administration efforts to break it up with "divide and conquer" tactics, and Pentagon war planning.

For one thing, the movement is democratic. It is based on majority opinion in Latin America, as reflected in honest, transparent elections, which have resulted in leftist governments whose leaders share these goals, in Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Uruguay, Paraguay, Nicaragua, El Salvador and Guatemala. Part of this new Latin American policy is even shared by most rightwing leaders--protection of their sovereignty, or at least, as far as the rightwing goes, giving the appearance of protecting their sovereignty. Feilipe Calderon, the rightwing president of Mexico--as the consequence of a highly disputed election--may have lectured Bush Jr in public on the "sovereignty of Latin American countries," citing Venezuela as the example, back in 2006, but he then sold Mexico's sovereignty to the DEA and the corrupt, murderous, failed U.S. "war on drugs"--probably the preliminary mayhem needed for the privatization of Mexico's oil and other multinational/war profiteer intentions.

In any case, the true democrats are united, as never before, and are being very smart in their pursuit of their goals. War against people who are fired up about democracy, who have fought hard for democracy, against great obstacles--primarily the U.S.--and who are, at long last, seeing progress on social justice and the benefits of sovereign control of their own resources and economies, as well as the huge benefits of Latin American countries pulling together, is very, very unwise. Hitler made that miscalculation against the U.S. Our multinational corporate/war profiteer rulers are toying with that miscalculation in Latin America as we speak. If they choose wrongly--in their desperate greed for more oil and for more bludgeoned workers and markets--it will likely be the U.S. "Waterloo."

It doesn't matter the odds in tanks and guns. What counts is the soldiers' motivation and the motivation of the people behind the soldiers. Vietnam is the quintessential example--a war that was won by "little brown people in straw hats and sandals" against the biggest, baddest war machine on earth. Even with U.S. high tech weaponry, they can't win if our soldiers know that that they do not belong there, and that the cause is bad and/or that the other side is fundamentally right. We already have a third of U.S. military forces dysfunctional with PTSS and other psychological problems. This can't go on, or if it is forced onward, it will be disastrous. And the injustice and COST of on-going corporate war, at home, will do the rest. This can't go on, here either.

The U.S. could inflict a lot of suffering, and do a lot of damage, with an outright war or with a proxy war (say, using Colombia). It could tear parts of Latin America to pieces. But it can't win. Latin Americans are too fed up with U.S. interference and horrors, and too determined to govern themselves.

Venezuela was just designated THE MOST EQUAL COUNTRY IN LATIN AMERICA, on income distribution, by the UN Economic Commission on Latin America and the Caribbean. They have something to fight for. Do we?

Hugo Chavez is trying to maintain Venezuela's military for people who chose him in elections that are far, FAR more transparent than our own. He is acting in the interest of people who can be sure that their votes were counted, that they elected him and that he is accountable to them. Can we say the same?

If he has to make military purchases in China or Russia, that is our loss (or a loss to our war profiteers), and yet another stupid U.S. policy, like the Cuba embargo, that insults other peoples and countries with no benefit to anybody, except to the corporate powers and installed fascist leaders who end up ravaging countries and brutalizing their people, when the U.S. succeeds with its punishments and other foul plots, as they have, for instance, in Honduras.

Latin Americans have Honduras, Mexico and Colombia as current examples of the mayhem and death that U.S. domination results in. Not since the post-WW II era and the Marshall Plan in Europe has U.S. policy been beneficial to others. It has been downhill to the Iraq War ever since, with only a few sidebars (assassination of JFK, who was going for world peace and was stopped in his tracks*) and the Carter presidency (ousted by Reagan treason in cahoots with the corporate oil monsters--Carter's is the sole decent U.S. policy in Latin America, from FDR to the present, and is to be especially lauded for his work on honest elections in Latin America). Everything else has been a botch and a disaster, because of its very dishonesty. The U.S. government doesn't want "democracy" anywhere, any more than Exxon Mobil does. Their interests are one and the same, and they have the opposite intention, to destroy local democracy and install rightwing leaders and fascists. That is why all USAID money--multi-millions of our tax dollars--goes to Latin American rightwing groups. That is the whole purpose of the U.S. "war on drugs"--at a cost of billions--to militarize and control Latin American countries. (Venezuela and Bolivia have never conducted bigger busts of major drug gangs than after they threw the DEA out of their countries.)

Momentum is on the side of democracy and social justice, in Latin America, no thanks whatsoever to the U.S. government--except in so far as the U.S. government inspires people to vote for leftists and real democrats who will repel U.S. domination and pull the region together in that goal. The U.S. has inspired Latin Americans to create real democracies, partly in reaction to the bloody tyrants that the U.S. installed there, and also to U.S./IMF/World Bank ravaging of their economies. How's that for a legacy? The U.S. has come full circle, and is now "George III"--if not worse--in other peoples' eyes. How's that for irony?

So they are bloody well going to buy their weapons from whomever they bloody well please. And they are going to go their own way, united as we once were, in the common cause of rejecting tyranny. Some joke that our tyrants call Chavez a "dictator." I believe Lula da Silva--who said, of Chavez, "They can invent all kinds of things to criticize Chavez but not on democracy"--and the people of Venezuela and their countable votes.

---------

*("JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters," by James Douglass. Highly recommended.)

[The abyss]

12. As always - Best comment & analysis!

Peace Patriot, never ever stop speaking!

[rabs]

13. The number (1,800 missiles) in the Washington Post/Reuters story does not square

with the number cited in the leaked cable. The cable says 100 IGLA-S shoulder-fired with 96 gripstocks were delivered to Venezuela in 2009.

The IGLA-S MANPAD (Man-Portable Air Defense Systems) is a state-of-the-art weapon that can blow a low-flying aircraft (think Blackhawks, Hueys, Warthogs) out of the sky up to 6 klicks away. This post is long but it gives a clear idea of how the United States is and has been working against the Venezuela of President Hugo Chavez.

The cable and related others were published by El Pais of Madrid several days ago:

------------------

S E C R E T STATE 081957

NOFORN

SIPDIS

C O R R E C T E D COPY CAPTION AND REMOVING CLASSIFICATION
SENSITIVE

E.O. 12958: DECL: 08/04/2019
TAGS: PARM, PREL, RS
SUBJECT: REPORT OF U.S.- RUSSIA MANPADS EXPERTS MEETING
JULY 9-10, WASHINGTON, D.C.

REF: A. A. STATE 152989 B. STATE 100646 C. STATE 112304
B. D. STATE 32213 E. STATE 33076 F. STATE 27306

Classified By: EUR/PRA Acting Director Kathleen Morenski
for reasons 1.4 (a,b,c,d)

Summary

1. (S/NF) On the same week as the successful U.S.-Russia
Presidential Summit in Moscow, the United States and Russia
held their sixth Experts Meeting under their bilateral
Man-Portable Air Defense Systems (MANPADS) Arrangement July
9-10 in Washington. Several items of interest were covered,
including: 1. a framework for the exchange of information on
domestic MANPADS destruction; 2. the risk of diversion of
MANPADS from Venezuela to the FARC; 3. illicit MANPADS
proliferation from Eritrea; 4. potential cooperation on
MANPADS destruction projects with other states; and 5. next
steps to facilitate the transfer of Russian-made Finnish
MANPADS to the U.S. for countermeasures testing. The Russian
side again requested U.S. help preventing the spread of
MANPADS in the Caucasus, in particular information on
Polish-supplied MANPADS to Georgia that were discovered in
Chechnya following the August 2008 conflict. In response to
our non-paper on the subject, the Russian MFA informed us it
had begun a dialogue with the Polish government. The next
Experts Meeting was tentatively scheduled for fall 2010 in
Moscow, at the earliest. The U.S. delegation was co-chaired
by Steven Costner (Deputy Director of PM/WRA) and Anita
Friedt (Director of EUR/PRA). The Russian delegation was
chaired by Col. Oleg Skabara from the MOD. See para 31 for a
full delegation list. End Summary.



2. (S) Both sides provided the details of their quarterly
MANPADS transfers. The U.S. submitted its first quarter
report, which reported no transfers from January 1-March 31,
prior to the meeting. The U.S. provided its second quarter
report (due by September 30), which covered April 1 through
June 30, during the meeting, which also reported no
transfers. The Russians provided their first quarter
exchange prior to the meeting, which reported the transfer of
100 IGLA-S missiles and 90 associated gripstocks to
Venezuela. (see below para for more details on the Venezuela
discussion).


------------ snip -------------

Venezuela MANPADS transfers

5. (S) In response to the U.S. paper outlining U.S. concerns
about the possibility of diversion to non state actors of
IGLA-S systems being delivered to the Government of Venezuela
(GOV), the Russian delegation stated that they understood the
concerns raised at high levels between our Secretary of State
and the Russian Minister of Foreign Affairs as well as
between Russian Ambassador Kislyak and WHA A/S Shannon.
Skabara assured the U.S. delegation that Russian law provides
specific measures to prevent illegal transfers to third
parties. He then stated that the issues raised in the paper
were reflected in end user checks as well as in the contract
between the GOR and GOV, and that the GOR has required an
end-user regime that guarantees that transfers to third
parties will not take place. Skabara said that the U.S.
delegation had seen how well the Russians secure their
stockpiles and assured the U.S. that these same controls were
written into the contract with Venezuela. Along with this,
the GOR has had dialogue with the GOV evaluating the GOV's
physical security of the systems, which specifically featured
a discussion about the FARC. GOR assured the U.S. side that
transfers from Venezuela to the FARC cannot take place.

6. (S) Questions and comparisons were raised by the U.S.
side about Russian ammunition, sold to Venezuela, and found
in possession of the FARC. Skabara first suggested that the
ammunition did not come from Russia, but was probably a sale
from "unlicensed production" a suggestion that it was
manufactured in a third country without appropriate permits
from Russia. When the U.S. side pointed out that the
ammunition carried factory stamps, and that we provided this
information, the Russians responded that the meeting was to
discuss MANPADS, not ammunition, and that these are different
weapons and the approach, scale, and control applied to them
are different. He said the U.S. did not provide enough
information to the Russians on the confiscated ammunition for
them to fully investigate the discovery; however Russia is
carrying out an investigation. He added that it would be
"impossible" for a similar scenario to take place with
MANPADS, as they have an ongoing dialogue with Venezuela that
allows them to evaluate the security and use of these
MANPADS, and thus none of these MANPADS can be transferred to
the FARC.

7. (S) Giovanni Snidle from WHA/FO said that he was pleased
to be able to report to Ambassador Shannon that an
investigation is ongoing into the Russian cartridges found
with the FARC and that the U.S. would appreciate if the
Russians shared the findings. Snidle expressed that the
concerns were not Venezuela-specific, but a concern with the
Western Hemisphere as a whole, noting that when new MANPADS
were provided to the Venezuelans, it was possible that the
older, excess MANPADS could be transferred to others in the
region. He asked the Russians to consider the following
parameters (also outlined in a non-paper provided in advance
of the meeting) when signing MANPADS contracts with western
hemisphere countries:

-------------- snip ------------

16. (S/NF) The U.S. side then gave a briefing on the MANPADS
black market in Latin America. The MANPADS black market in
the region is small, the number of potential users is low,
and prices are high compared to other regions such as the
Middle East, South Asia, and Africa. Central American
countries historically have posed the largest proliferation
risk because of the availability of systems unrecovered after
civil conflicts in the 1980s. The U.S. side stated concerns
about the FARC's apparent desire to obtain MANPADS, but said
that the likelihood that they have already is very low.
Specific instances where there would be heightened risk of
proliferation could include when MANPADS are deployed to
forward operating bases (as in the case of Venezuela).
MANPADS are generally secure when they are in central
stockpiles; however, when they are deployed they may be lost
in combat, corruption, or to the black market. The U.S. side
reiterated that any proliferation to the FARC is important
and is likely to lead to a significant increase in the air
defense threat to Colombian and US aircraft operating in the
region.

Full text of the cable

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/internacional/Cable/venta/material/militar/Rusia/Venezuela/elpepuint/20101208elpepuint_49/Tes

------------------

Cable of U.S. pressure on Russia with Moscow telling the United States to go jump in a lake:
-------------------
2. (S) Nonetheless, Antonov stressed that there was no
international restriction on selling arms, including MANPADS,
to Venezuela. Russia also recognized the U.S. as a
competitor in the international arms trade, with the
motivation of restricting Russia's market access. Russia
respected the U.S. right to determine U.S. policy on arms
sales to Venezuela, but "that is your decision, not ours; we
have our own policy." Antonov said that if U/S Joseph raises
this issue with Deputy FM Kislyak, Kislyak "will say the
same." PolMinCouns noted that the issue of military sales to
Venezuela remained of great concern to the U.S., and this
would be a continuing subject of bilateral discussion.

3. (S) Regarding sales of AK-103 rifles, Antonov confirmed
that the sale was indeed moving forward. He maintained that
Venezuela was a legitimate market for Russian arms, and that
Russia intends to remain active in this market. He also
commented that the tone in parts of ref A points was
demeaning to Russia. The U.S. should not "speak to us like
we are Gabon or Mali," he remarked. Antonov said that Russia
does not and will not give out specific information, such as
serial numbers of AK-103 rifles, to others.

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/internacional/Cable/presiones/EE/UU/Rusia/venda/armas/Venezuela/elpepuint/20101208elpepuint_38/Tes

----------------

U.S. stragdy to prevent Russia from selling MANPADS to Venezuela

-----

3. (S/NF) The Igla-S (SA-24) is Russia's most advanced
MANPADS and considered one of the most lethal portable
air defense systems ever made (Ref A).

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/internacional/Cable/estrategia/estadounidense/Rusia/vendar/armas/Venezuela/elpepuint/20101208elpepuint_44/Tes

--------------

Cable calling for pressure on Spain and Sweden regarding arms sales to Venezuela


Talking Points for Embassy Stockholm:

--We appreciate your efforts to work with Colombia and to
press Venezuela for an explanation on how three M-136 AT4
anti-tank missiles Sweden sold to Venezuela in 1988 ended up
in FARC stocks.

Talking Points for Embassy Madrid:

--Diversion of conventional weapons, including MANPADS, to
terrorist and criminal organizations, such as the FARC,
presents a clear threat to peace and security in Latin
America.

--We prefer that EU members not transfer arms to Venezuela.
If arms are transferred to Venezuela, we ask that EU Member
States work to strengthen transparency and accountability
measures for such exports, such as through post-shipment
verification to ensure that the arms remain in Venezuelan
hands.
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/internacional/Cable/presiones/Suecia/Espana/vendan/material/militar/Venezuela/elpepuint/20101208elpepuint_41/Tes

[Zorro]

14. Sounds like a valid concern

I think it would be in the best interests of regional peace to limit opportunities for the FARC or Mexican drug gangs to obtain such weapons.

[Freetradesucks]

15. Venezuela acquires 1,800 antiaircraft missiles from Russia

Source: Washington Post

By Juan Forero
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, December 11, 2010; 6:19 PM
BOGOTA, COLOMBIA -

Russia delivered at least 1,800 shoulder-fired antiaircraft missiles to Venezuela in 2009, U.N. arms control data show, despite vigorous U.S. efforts to stop President Hugo Chavez's stridently anti-American government from acquiring the weapons.

The United States feared that the missiles could be funneled to Marxist guerrillas fighting Colombia's pro-American government or Mexican drug cartels, concerns expressed in U.S. diplomatic cables obtained by WikiLeaks and first reported in the Spanish newspaper El Pais.

It had been unclear how many of the Russian SA-24 missiles were delivered to Venezuela, though the transfer itself was not secret. Chavez showed off a few dozen at a military parade in April 2009, saying they could "deter whatever aerial aggression against our country." A high-level Russian delegation told American officials in Washington in July of that year that 100 of the missiles had been delivered in the first quarter of 2009.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/11/AR2010121102586.html?hpid=topnews

[Goldstein1984]

16. Good for Hugo

With hostile neighbors looking to secure oil supplies, he can use them.

If ever needed, may they fly straight and true.

[davidinalameda]

17. hope none are ever pointed at you or your loved ones

[thunder rising]

21. ????? We still have nukes. I hope none of those evey get "black dotted"

[Dogmudgeon]

22. DUers are staunchly anti-war ... with a few exceptions.

Me? I fail to see how Russia is so poor that they have to sell arms. Our (USA) own arms entrepreneurs are in a similar situation. Why can't they just run for-profit prisons, whorehouses, and cemeteries, like good Christians would?

--d!

[cpwm17]

32. Hopefully Venezuela's enemies remain anti-war

And these defensive weapons may ensure just that.

[DavidDvorkin]

26. Wouldn't that have to be loved ones piloting aircraft attacking Venezuela?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DontTreadOnMe]

29. I just sent my daughter an email...

to remind her not to attack ANY SOUTH AMERICAN COUNTRIES in an aircraft.

She replied there would be a "low chance" of it ever happening, but it is noted for future reference.

[Goldstein1984]

36. If any of those missiles are ever pointed at my loved ones...

my loved ones are fighting for the wrong side.

The United States is the threat to world peace, not Hugo Chavez.

BTW: My son served in Iraq, and his last email before coming home said, "Dad, when the wind if from the west this place smells like piss, when it from the east it smells like oil, it always smells like corruption here. If I were these people, I would be trying to kill us too."

He's getting out of the army in two months, and he agrees with me about the evils of empire.

[thunder rising]

18. "The US feared that the missiles could be funneled to Marxist guerrillas"? That's so Y2K

He must be supporting terrorists! It won't fly without terrorists.

[lib2DaBone]

19. The CIA tried to KIll Chavez (twice) and nationalize his oil wells...

and we "wonder" why they embrace help from Russia and China. Duh...

[NYMdaveNYI]

20. “Marxist guerrillas"

say what?

I wanna go there!

[thunder rising]

23. Communsits were the white guys ... Marxist guerrillas were the South Americans

[NYMdaveNYI]

25. I had no idea that we

had this kind of influence ANYWHERE in the world, us Marxists.


Count on the corporate media to leave you in the dark on that one...

[yurbud]

24. Venezuela would be wise to keep those missiles at home for our next attempt to overthrow Chavez

[thunder rising]

28. So furthers the rumor that Chavez is going to do anything but keep them at home.

[Purveyor]

30. "shoulder-fired antiaircraft missiles" Certainly not an 'offensive weapon'. eom

[Pavulon]

31. There was a batch the FARC got.

source unknown.

[Peace Patriot]

34. Citation, please! The FARC weapons found were from some 20 different countries,

and there were NONE found that had any recent venue in Venezuela. The few in question were purchased from Sweden in the 1980s, some 30 years ago, and were stolen from a Venezuela armory in 1995, fifteen years ago, and five years before the Chavez government was first elected. There is NO evidence of any other weapons.
.
The cable referring to it is WRONG. It is pushing "talking points" and ideology first, and facts nowhere. This is "diplomatic" bullshit.

You are implying that you know otherwise, so prove it.

--------------------

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/4696
http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/4670

The political context of yet more of these kind of wild, unsupported accusations by Colombia against Venezuela, during the Uribe regime, is that Uribe was trying to "sell" a secretly negotiated U.S./Colombia military agreement in Colombia and the region, that was later declared unconstitutional by the Colombian supreme court. The agreement greatly increased U.S. military presence in Colombia, at SEVEN more military bases, gave the U.S. military use of all Colombian civilian infrastructure and granted "total diplomatic immunity" for all U.S. military personnel and U.S. military 'contractors' in Colombia, no matter what they did in Colombia. The Bushwhacks needed Venezuela to be a "threat" in order to "sell" this agreement. The U.S. state department flunkies who are writing these cables were merely repeating Bushwhack garbage, because they would have been put off the "career track" if they did not. The Venezuelans compared it to their goddamn lies about WMDs in Iraq, and they were exactly right, because that is exactly what it was: more warmongering, war profiteering, U.S. government bankrupting Bushitism.

Uribe is a fascist nutball with a trail of bodies behind him all the way to Antioquia, where he was governor in the early part of this mafioso's career. He later became the Bushwhacks' tool as president of Colombia, during a bloody reign of terror in which thousands of trade unionists, human rights workers, teachers, community activists, journalists, peasant farmers and others were slaughtered by the Colombian military and its closely tied rightwing death squads, and millions were terrorized, including 5 MILLION peasant farmers displaced from their lands--THE worst human displacement crisis on earth--with about half of million of those fleeing over the borders into Venezuela and Ecuador, for refuge. Uribe was furthermore spying on everybody--judges, prosecutors, labor leaders, academics, journalists and all of his "enemies," whom he collectively called "terrorists." Some 70 of his closest political associates are under investigation or in jail for bribery, death squad ties, drug trafficking and other crimes, and it is only by action of the U.S., coddling and protecting this jerk, and spiriting witnesses against him out of Colombia, with secretive extraditions and asylums in Panama--against the vociferous objections of Colombian prosecutors--that he himself will probably never stand trial.

The Colombian government under Uribe, and Uribe himself, are completely untrustworthy as accusers of others. They are no more credible than Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld.

[Pavulon]

38. Use the new wikileak dumps. Lots of farc / chaves stuff.

http://cablesearch.org/

manpads and bofors is interesting. Thats a swedish anti tank weapon.

[Judi Lynn]

39. Thank you for bring the truth back to the conversation, Peace Patriot. n/t

[Pavulon]

40. "Truth" is a double edged sword. Link trumps oped.

SUBJECT: COMBATTING VENEZUELAN DIVERSION OF ARMS TO THE
FARC

http://cablesearch.org/cable/view.php?id=09STATE83014&hl=farc+at4

[Judi Lynn]

41. Link trumps oped? Really. My link trumps what a Bush embassy guy said.

Morgenthau's Axis Debunked
Mark Weisbrot Co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington, D.C.
Posted: September 11, 2009 03:44 PM

~snip~
In a raid on a FARC training camp this July, Colombian military operatives recovered Swedish-made anti-tank rocket launchers sold to Venezuela in the 1980s. Sweden believes this demonstrates a violation of the end-user agreement by Venezuela, as the Swedish manufacturer was never authorized to sell arms to Colombia. <16) [b>Chávez addressed this directly: the weapons had been stationed at a military outpost that was raided in 1995, whatever was there was stolen. For the last 40 years, guerrillas in Colombia have stolen weapons inside Venezuela. There is no evidence that this has increased under Chávez.

More:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-weisbrot/morgenthaus-axis-debunked_b_283871.html

~~~~~
There's a very clear example of Venezuela capturing some Colombian fighters in Venezuela who had planned to break into a national guard armory there and steal weapons enough to arm over 1,000 men. THESE men were former Colombian paramilitaries. We have seen many
articles written on this event, although NO U.S. coporate media sources found it important enough to bother US readers' silly heads with, even though they howl their heads off over almost anything, including the name of the Venezuelan cell phone.


Three Venezuelan Officers and 27 Colombians Sentenced for Assassination Plot
A Venezuelan military court sentenced three Venezuelan military officers and 27 Colombians to two to nine years of prison for plotting an assault on Venezuela’s presidential palace and the assassination of President Hugo Chavez.Another 73 Colombians and 3 Venezuelan officers, who had also been suspected of participating in the plot, were freed after spending 17 months in prison.

118 Colombians were captured in May 2004 on a ranch just outside of Caracas, wearing Venezuelan military fatigues. Many of them appeared to be Colombian paramilitary fighters who had been recruited for a mission in Venezuela to attack the Chavez government and to kill the president. Six Venezuelan officers were also arrested in the course of the investigation.
Some of the Colombians were peasants who had been lured to come to Venezuela with the promise of jobs. Upon arriving, though, they were forced to engage in paramilitary training exercises and were forbidden to leave the ranch. 18 of the Colombians were released immediately after the capture and returned to Colombia because they were minors between 15 and 17 years. The ranch belongs to Roberto Alonso, a prominent Cuban-Venezuelan opposition activist. The highest level officer to be sentenced was General Ovidio Poggioli, who had been charged with military rebellion and was sentenced to 2 years and ten months of prison. The other two Venezuelan officers are Colonel Jesús Farias Rodríguez and Captain Rafael Farias Villasmil, who were each sentenced to nine years of prison. The 27 Colombians were each sentenced to six years prison.
When the group of Colombians were first arrested, many opposition leaders argued that the government had staged the arrests, in order to make the opposition look bad. They pointed out that no weapons were found with the paramilitary fighters and that the whole operation looked far too amateurish to have any chance of success. Also, it was argued that it is practically impossible to transport 120 Colombian paramilitary fighters undetected all the way from Colombia to Caracas, considering that there are numerous military control points along the way.
(snip)
http://www.voltairenet.org/article130297.html





Colombian paramilitaries captured at a ranch owned by Cuban-Venezuelan right-wing “exile” opposition figure, Roberto Alonso
Published on Monday, May 17,
by the Agence France Presse
Thousands Protest Colombian Paramilitary Presence in Venezuela
Chavez to Set up 'People's Militia'

President Hugo Chavez announced his government would establish "people's militias" to counter what he called foreign interference after an alleged coup plot by Colombian paramilitaries Caracas claims was financed by Washington.

Chavez also said he would boost the strength of Venezuela's armed forces as part of a new "anti-imperialist" phase for his government.

"Each and every Venezuelan man and woman must consider themselves a soldier," said Chavez.

"Let the organization of a popular and military orientation begin from today."

The president's announcement came a week after authorities arrested 88 people described as Colombian paramilitaries holed up on property belonging to a key opposition figure.

More:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0517-04.htm

~~~
Venezuela captures Colombians in anti-Chavez 'plot'
By Reuters. Sunday 9 May 2004. 7:12pm


CARACAS, Venezuela, May 9 (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said on Sunday his security forces had captured a band of Colombian paramilitaries who were being trained by his foes to kill or overthrow him, but opposition leaders dismissed the charge as an attempt to smear them.
(snip)

Chavez, citing information from military chiefs, said 56 Colombians dressed in Venezuelan military uniforms were seized in a raid early Sunday on a ranch owned by a Cuban exile among hills on the southern outskirts of Caracas.

~snip~
CUBAN EXILE NAMED

Chavez, a firebrand populist elected in 1998, has often accused his domestic opponents of trying to overthrow him with the help of the U.S. government, wealthy Colombians opposed to his rule and right-wing Cuban exiles.

The president said the ranch raided belonged to a Cuban exile, Roberto Alonso, closely linked to Venezuela's opposition and to Cuban exile groups in Miami opposed to Cuba's Communist President Fidel Castro.

More:
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1083180385466&p=1012571727102

http://www.vheadline.com.nyud.net:8090/graf/040509_paramilitaries_02.jpg

Ultimas Noticias reporters Tamoa Calzadilla and Jorge Chavez write: At a payments center in Medellin (Colombia), it was well-known that paramilitaries who received payment there for protection rackets, extortion, and contraband were offering US$20 million to take a group of mercenaries to Venezuela to accomplish various illegal operations.

A witness who asked that his identity be concealed told the Colombian authorities about the incident, and the information was given to Ultimas Noticias by Colombian Senator Gustavo Petro (PDI).

According to the witness, a group of 400 men were to be organized to go to Venezuela to assassinate for money. The Colombian Senator suspects that the group captured in Venezuela last Sunday could be the same as the group recruited by the paramilitaries, most of them reservists in the army, as has been officially verified.


But, that is not the only reason to believe this is true. Petro commented that in Colombia, information that could be key in the investigations being conducted in Venezuela hasn’t been made public yet. “Two months ago, telephone conversations of paramilitaries stationed in that region (the North of Santander), in which the irregulars speak of transporting male combatants to Venezuela to be kept for a while, in captivity,” were recorded by the order of a judge who was investigating a prosecutor in Cucuta.

The Senator states that the police recorded 40 hours of conversations, whose content revealed that Ana Maria Flores, regional director of the Attorney General’s office in the North of Santander, was implicated in collaborating with the illegal work of the paramilitaries in the region. Other sources comment that the woman has been living her double life for 8 years, and that her secretary, Magaly, is also implicated. The scandal exploded two months ago, and Flores escaped a few days ago. Today, here whereabouts are unknown.

More:
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x562085

[Pavulon]

43. Nothing on those missiles and nothing on cablesearch

about what you posted. Chavez is covered by many cables and seems to have problems with more nations than just the US.

Read them, before they go away.

[and-justice-for-all]

33. The US has no right to tell other countries what to do....

Venezuela does not want to end up like Iraq or Afghanistan, they have the right to hold armorments like any other country.