Envoy says US committed to Palestinian state

[Still a Democrat]

Source: Washington Post

The U.S. will not be deterred by setbacks and will persevere until a Palestinian state is established alongside Israel, President Obama's Mideast envoy said Tuesday after meeting the Palestinian president.

Envoy George Mitchell presented ideas on how to move forward, said Saeb Erekat, an aide to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. He would not elaborate.

...

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/14/AR2010121402174.html

[kysrsoze]

1. Hmmm... this doesn't jive with the U.S. backing down on illegal Israeli settlements.

Netanyahu has been looking the other way as the settlers push further into Palestinian areas.

[Mosby]

4. There hasn't been any new settlements in years

all the settlement growth is in existing settlements mostly near the green line.

Forcing Israel to agree to a settlement freeze was a bad idea, but at least the Obama admin is now realizing their mistake.

[Douglas Carpenter]

5. unless most settlers are withdrawn - a viable Palestinian state and a 2 state solution is impossible

A freeze would be the most minimal first step. Unfortunately, Mr. Netanyahu while claiming to want peace at the same time promises the radical settler movement that there will never, ever be any evacuation of any settlers ever - and that any limited freeze on settlement expansion is only temporary and will never again be repeated - thus making a peace settlement based on the two-state solution completely impossible and out of the question.

Following the Oslo Accord of 1993 the government of Israeli massively increased its settlements during the entirety of the period - almost doubling the number of settlers between the time of the signing of the Oslo Accord and the Camp David talks in 2000 - while cutting up the West Bank into multiple cantons and actually making life much, much harder for the Palestinians and a viable economy and a viable state much, much less likely.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/728a69d4-12b1-11dc-a475-000b5df10621.html?nclick_check=1

There are approximately 450,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank, (*now closer to 500,000) including East Jerusalem. According to B'tselem: The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights, " the built-up area of the settlements in the West Bank covers 1.7 percent of the West Bank, the settlements control 41.9 percent of the entire West Bank".*

http://www.btselem.org/English/Maps/Index.asp

full PDF map:

http://www.btselem.org/Download/Settlements_Map_Eng.pdf

"“ there is no Palestinian state, even though the Israelis speak of one.” Instead, he said, “there will be a settler state and a Palestinian built-up area, divided into three sectors, cut by fingers of Israeli settlement and connected only by narrow roads."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/11/world/middleeast/11road.html?_r=13&pagewanted=2&ei=5070&en=22948d4799a34065&ex=1187496000&emc=eta1&oref


--------------------------------


Comprehensive Settlement Population 1972-2008



Year, West Bank, Gaza Strip, East Jerusalem and Golan Heights and yearly totals



1972 1,182 700 8,649 77 10,608
1983 22,800 900 76,095 6,800 106,595

1985 44,100 1,900 103,900* 8,700 158,700
1989 69,800 3,000 117,100 10,000 199,900

1990 78,600 3,300 135,000 10,600 - 227,500
1991 90,300 3,800 137,300 11,600 - 243,000
1992 101,100 4,300 141,000 12,000 - 258,400
1993 111,600 4,800 152,800 12,600 - 281,800
1995 133,200 5,300 157,300 13,400 - 309,200
1996 142,700 5,600 160,400 13,800 - 322,500
1997 154,400 5,700 161,416 14,300 - 335,816
1998 163,300 6,100 165,967 14,900 - 350,267
1999 177,411 6,337 170,123 15,313 - 369,184
2000 192,976 6,678 172,250 15,955 - 387,859
2002 214,722 7,277 175,617 16,503 - 414,119
2003 224,669 7,556 178,601 16,791 - 427,617

2004 234,487 7,826 181,587 17,265 - 441,828
2005 258,988 0 184,057 17,793 - 460,838
2006 268,400 0 186,857 18,105 - 473,362

2007 276,462 0 189,708 18,692 - 484,862

2008 295,380 0 193,091 19,083 - 507,554




*1986 data

Source: Central Bureau of Statistics, Statistical Abstract of Israel, 1992-2008 and List of Localities, the Populations, and Symbols, 1995-2008. Statistical Yearbook of Jerusalem, Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies, 1991-2010.

http://www.fmep.org/settlement_info/settlement-info-and-tables/stats-data/comprehensive-settlement-population-1972-2006

[cpwm17]

6. Two state solution is obviously long dead

All that is left is a one state solution. Any other outcome is unthinkable.

It's so bizarre that people who claim that they believe in American ideals can support this tragedy.

[Mosby]

7. based on his public statements Abbas made it clear

That Jews are not welcome in the future state of Palestine so I agree with you to the extent that many settlers will need to be relocated in order to facilitate a two state solution.
Hopefully though Abbas or whoever is in charge in the future will understand that land swaps are a critical part of any final settlement.

[Douglas Carpenter]

8. Mr. Abbas made it absolutely clear that he was speaking of Israeli soldiers and settlers

I can find no evidence to indicate that Mr. Abbas said that Jews would not be welcome in a future state of Palestine - welcomed as equals living as equals not as Israeli soldiers or illegal settlers. Obviously if the State of Israel can decide what Palestinians from outside of Israel's 1948-1967 borders can live inside Israel's 1948-1967 borders even if they were born or their family origins are from inside the 1948-1967 border - I assume a Palestinian state would have similar rights.

Abbas: Jewish NATO soldiers could defend future Palestinian state

Aide denies reports that Palestinian president opposes any Jewish presence in an international force to protect new borders under emerging peace proposals.

By Haaretz Service

Mahmoud Abbas is not opposed to including Jewish soldiers in an international NATO force to be deployed along the borders of a future Palestinian state under a potential permanent peace agreement, the Palestinian president's political adviser said Saturday.

snip:

Hamad told Wafa that the American media had quoted Abbas as having said that he would refuse to allow Jewish soldiers on the border between Israel and the Palestinian state. "The remarks attributed to the president are baseless," Hamad said. "The president said in his meetings with AIPAC and with Israeli journalists and world leaders that he welcomes the deployment of an international force regardless of the troops' religion."

Hamad added that Abbas refuses outright to have Israeli soldiers deployed along the borders, regardless of their religion, as "it is common knowledge that there are many non-Jewish soldiers serving in the Israeli army."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/abbas-jewish-nato-soldiers-could-defend-future-palestinian-state-1.306616

[Mosby]

9. I'll wait for Abbas to clarify his statements - I don't put a lot of faith in what an "aid" said

In case people on this thread don't know know what Abbas recently said:


"I'm willing to agree to a third party that would supervise the agreement, such as NATO forces, but I would not agree to having Jews among the NATO forces, or that there will live among us even a single Israeli on Palestinian land,” he was quoted by Wafa, the official Palestinian news agency.

A state without Jews

The Palestinians intend to demand the implementation of the UN resolution regarding refugees, from a Palestinian perspective, which gives the 5.5 million refugees and their descendants the right of return and to settle in the State of Israel. In his briefing to the Egyptian media, Abbas presented this strategy and denied the Jewish character of Israel. He maintains that Israel should, in fact, become a bi-national state, but on the other hand that Palestine must become a state “clean” of Jews.

The term “Israeli” used by Abbas means “Jew,” as the PA sees Israeli Arabs, Muslims and Christians alike as an integral part of the Palestinian people. The future State of Palestine, according Abbas, must resist any Jewish presence in its territory. In other words, the PA embraces a racist policy – Palestinian apartheid – directed at Jews, based on denial of Jewish history and the cultural and religious linkage of the Jewish people to the land.

The anti-Semitism embodied in Abbas’ words refers also to his position towards the NATO observers’ force that may be deployed in the West Bank to monitor the implementation of the peace agreement with Israel. He is opposed to Jews being included in this force; meaning, he will ask Germany and all other partner countries in NATO to use their own forces in the West Bank, in an effort to the exclude any Jewish soldiers.

He didn’t explain how these countries would determine who is a Jew, whether according to orthodox Jewish laws or just if one of the parents or grandparents was a Jew. But even Saudi Arabia didn’t dare oppose the deployment of American Jewish soldiers on its land during operation Desert Storm (1990-1), and no one in Israel ever demanded to disqualify Muslim soldiers from serving in the international observers’ forces in Lebanon, the Golan Heights and Sinai.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3929819,00.html

To be fair Wafa is now claiming he never said what he said, but I personally would like to hear that come out of Abbas's mouth instead of some nobody spokesperson.

[Name removed]

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[Scurrilous]

3. K & R

:thumbsup: