San Jose bans plastic bags

[alp227]

Source: San Jose Mercury News

San Jose became the largest U.S. city to ban plastic carry-out bags Tuesday with an ordinance that supporters said was the most far-reaching in the country aimed at encouraging shoppers to bring reusable totes.

The ordinance, approved on a 10-1 vote after two years of study, wouldn't become effective until Jan. 1, 2012, to allow for more public outreach. It would prohibit retailers from giving out disposable plastic bags at the check stand and require them to charge for paper bags.

"This is a great step," said Councilman Sam Liccardo. "It's an opportunity to lead on an important environmental issue."

Councilman Pete Constant, the lone dissenter, said the council had "increased the burden and cost for people in the midst of one of the deepest recessions we've experienced in our lifetime."

Read more: http://www.mercurynews.com/rss/ci_16859889

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As a resident of San Jose: :woohoo:

[Tumbulu]

1. great! Now when will styrofoam be banned?

I cannot believe that it is still allowed.

[gtar100]

10. When it is replaced with this:

TED - Eben Bayer - Are mushrooms the new plastic

About this talk
Product designer Eben Bayer reveals his recipe for a new, fungus-based packaging material that protects fragile stuff like furniture, plasma screens -- and the environment.

About Eben Bayer
Eben Bayer is co-inventor of MycoBond, an organic (really -- it's based on mycelium, a living, growing organism) adhesive that turns agriwaste into a foam-like material for packaging and insulation. Full bio and more links

[LoveIsNow]

2. "Increased the burden and cost"?

By what? Five bucks for a few reusable bags? And besides, the stores will save money on bags. It just seems like a silly objection to me.

[awoke_in_2003]

34. it will increase the cost...

to the poor, who don't have enough to get by with as it is.

[SnakeEyes]

3. Glad they havent done that here yet

i use them to pick up and dispose of my dog's poop.

[Maat]

4. For that use ..

they have compostable, biodegradable "plastic" bags that you can buy online. They are guaranteed to decompose quickly into harmless materials. I have some. They won't end up in some body of water.

[Le Taz Hot]

15. Woops!

Feces, nor anything animal, should ever go in your compost pile. Compost - it's why you don't need fertilizer.

[Maat]

23. Well, you are right, there, but ...

if I have to use a bag ... I use the decent one.

That having been said, I am really going to have to investigate composting; I am confused about how to do it.

[CreekDog]

6. you could use biodegradable or compostable bags

the stuff you're using is ending up in our oceans.

[Journeyman]

5. "The Majestic Plastic Bag" (A Mockumentary) . . .

A "mockumentary" on the life cycle of "The Majestic Plastic Bag" (narrated by Academy Award-winning actor Jeremy Irons).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLgh9h2ePYw

[defendandprotect]

7. Whole Foods substituted some really yucky brown containers ....

for former plastic ones for take out from their "cold food bar" --

Long ago they used white containers which were wax coated -- and held food

perfectly well.

And delis used simple butcher's paper with wax paper first around cold cold cuts --

did fine without plastic --

[defendandprotect]

8. Can't imagine there being any real problems with this --

What we also need is a ban on plastic bottles --

now, however, with gasoline prices so increased the argument against them, I assume,

is that they weigh more than plastic and would be more costly to ship?

Who knows what these bottles are adding to the food contents?

At one point they tested the medical supplies that were plastic and they were

leaking/leaching into the blood -- and whatever they were being used to contain!

[bluevoter4life]

9. I thought San Francsico did this a few years ago....

making them the largest city to do so. Did that not pass city council?

[EFerrari]

11. We did. San Jose is a bigger city because they cheat

and count the burbs. :)

[bluevoter4life]

20. Ah. Gotcha. Thanks for the info. eom

[KamaAina]

26. What do you mean, we count the 'burbs?

We ARE the 'burbs! :eyes:

[EFerrari]

27. I was trying to be nice, as someone with dual citizenship should.

lol

[KamaAina]

32. I don't even have dual citizenship

and I refer to SF/Oakland/Berkeley collectively as "civilization". :P

[MindandSoul]

12. For years now grocery stores in Belgium and France have not provided plastic

bags. . .unless you want to pay for each one of them. . .and they are more expensive that purchasing a reusable bag that holds a lot more and lasts for ever!

It works great.. .in fact some entrepreneurs have come up with a whole bunch of new, convenient ideas to help the shoppers at relatively low cost.

My favorite is a sort of very light, but strong collapsible plastic crate. When it is not in use, it is about 15" by 24" by 3" thick, and they stack conveniently to take very little room in your trunk. They unfold to provide strong but light crates taht are about 24' by 15' by 12" high. They are also very attractive and cosst relatively little (about $6).

I also love their big grocery bags that take no room at all and last forever. They cost about $1.25 per bag, and one of them can hold as much as 5 of our flimsy carry out plastic bags.

We are so backwards with all that!

Another thing that many grocery store in Europe have adopted is the "pay to use it" grocery cart. Each cart looks exactly like our grocery carts, but they have a lock with a chain that ties all the grocery carts together until you insert a coin (several coins will work, but usually a 25c coin) in the lock. The push of the coin releases the chain, and free the cart. Then, when you're done using the cart, you take it back to the cart parking and insert the "key" of another cart in your lock. . .which releases your coin back to you. So in fact, it doesn't cost you anything if you take your cart back where it belongs (which avoids a lot of accidents!). And, if you're too lazy to take the cart back to the parking. . .someone will surely do it for you, because they will then have your money!!!

Once again, a simple idea that works great. . .no more grocery carts rolling in every direction and causing damage to the cars. . .and there is always a young kid who is more than happy to take the cart back for you to get the money out of it!
By the way, that system only costs about $10 to install on any grocery cart. . .and it pay for itself very quickly by limiting the damage done, not only to the customers' cars, but also to the grocery carts themselves.

[14thColony]

14. The United Kingdom as well

Most retailers now charge for plastic bags. I've been using cloth bags so long I didn't even notice for a while.

[scribble]

13. Liberals get a bad name ...

doing krap like this.

San Jose residents aren't ready to spend more money and be put to even more inconvenience to do something that they are comfortable doing. Passing an ordinance summarily outlawing something as harmless as putting your belongings in a plastic bag is the kind of thing that turns us all into Libertarians on election day, when we have to vote for the boneheads that did this to us. It is as ham-handed as passing a law ordering the number pi to be 3.0 instead of 3.14195.

This not only is stupid, but it will kill a lot of local political careers.

If Liberals are going to show we can govern better than Conservatives, we simply MUST find a better way to regulate the small things -- like plastic bags. God, I'm embarrassed for San Jose.

sc

[Nihil]

17. True liberals don't.

Pretend ones who can't even hide their Libertarian attitudes?
Yes, I suspect they'd get a "bad name" for their actions ...

:eyes:

[Taverner]

22. Ahhh the "you're not a real liberal" canard

It gets old, buddy...it gets old.

[Nihil]

37. So does the "Liberals get a bad name doing xyz" bollocks ...

... when it is just an excuse for lazy fuckers wanting to
carry on screwing up the environment ...

Talk about "it gets old, buddy" ... :eyes:

[Taverner]

39. So in other words, you're perfect

It must be hard living with you...

[Nihil]

48. No, just not a lazy fucker. (n/t)

[Taverner]

21. Agreed

Some of us have an immediate revulsion to Nanny State Tactics

[EFerrari]

29. Maybe some of you should get busy sifting the plastic out at Ocean Beach

or the wetlands all around the bay.

[Devil_Fish]

33. Or better yet take a barge out to the pacific garbage patch that is twice the size of TX and pick

that shit up.

[Taverner]

35. Then don't choose plastic bags. I don't

But when you have something frozen you're bringing home, it can saturate the bag with water and everything falls out of the bottom.

Yeah yeah, garbage patch, feel guilty - it doesn't matter that we solve the problem, just as long as we feel GUILTY about it

[EFerrari]

36. Butchers used to wrap meat in butcher paper.

I think the real problem with wrapped meat is that the packaging is mechanized and not as good now. Is that possible?

[LanternWaste]

41. Must have been a tough old life prior to the advent of plastic bags...

"But when you have something frozen you're bringing home..."
Must have been a tough old life prior to the advent of plastic bags. Walking twenty miles in the snow uphill both ways and all that... just to bring home something frozen from the A&P.

I can only imagine the savagery and barbarity of grocery shopping that had occurred...

[Devil_Fish]

47. Two words: Canvas Bags. NT

[EFerrari]

28. Be embarrassed but please bring your own plastic bags if you come here.

And take them back with you. :)

[xor]

45. I'm not a fan of many things like this, but this seems rather harmless and will actually help

This reduces waste and it's not really that inconvenient. If anything, these bags won't break apart like the stupid plastic ones. The only downside is the initial price of buying the bags. This isn't like the silliness of banning toys in happy meals (which in my opinion doesn't do anything to solve the problem they are trying to solve, and it only causes people to get annoyed with the "nanny-state")

[Le Taz Hot]

16. The grocery store I shop at

gives me 6 cents for every reusable bag I bring in. Each time I shop. I started collecting them several years ago and, at 6 cents each, they've paid for themselves many times over.

[EFerrari]

31. That's a really good idea. Is it a chain? n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

38. I think it's a chain on the West Coast.

I shop at Winco but SaveMart and FoodMax and several others do the same. The only one that doesn't is Von's, which is too expensive to shop at anyway.

[EFerrari]

42. I think there's SaveMart here.

I sort of hate big stores so usually go to the smallest one that I can afford and am not familiar with the really big places.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. Surely there is a commerce clause argument in here somewhere

[Blandocyte]

19. Now only criminals will have plastic bags

[John Kerry VonErich]

24. What is the penalty for non compliance?

If it's just fines, the corporations will afford it or "pro-business" groups will cover it

[MindandSoul]

25. The way they did it in Europe (many years ago, by the way) is that

they first, gave the bags very sparingly (like. . .one by one. . though discouraging the use of too many bags)
then, when people got used to not being able to expect each two items to be put in separate bags, they began CHARGING a nominal fee for each bag above three
Then, they charge a nominal fee for each bag

And now, they are charging a relatively heavy fee for each bag, but are selling strong, reusable bags for a very low cost (about $1.25). It's working extremely well and no one feels offended or cheated!

[KamaAina]

30. Why did I know Constant would be the sole objector?

He's one of two repukes (along with several DINOs) on the 11-member council. He has an ego large enough to have had special "Councilmember Pete Constant District 1" knit shirts made for his entire staff. He objects to paying employees at our municipal airport a living wage. He even went against the wishes of the almighty (to him) Chamber of Commerce by endorsing prominent Prop H8 supporter and fraudulent bankruptcy filer Larry Pegram in a city council race; Pegram is so radioactive that the Chamber had decided to make no endorsement in the race, even against the labor-backed candidate (and eventual winner) Don Rocha.

And now I hear Constant is mulling a run for mayor. :scared:

[LanternWaste]

40. I imagine that an appropriate and effective view towards environmentalist

I imagine that an appropriate and effective view towards environmentalist will always cause many people some minor inconveniences... but I had no idea the depths to which some individuals would attempt to fervently hold onto those conveniences at the expense of Earth's health until I open these threads and read the bemusing howls of protestation.

[EFerrari]

43. The one thing that was pointed out to me is that charging people

for bags really is hard on those who have very little to spare. But that bit of the law can be tinkered with. I'm really happy to see this. It used to be you couldn't walk in my SF neighborhood without seeing plastic bags roll like tumbleweed down the street. And I was 1 block from the beach. :(

[LanternWaste]

44. keeping Earth healthier than we have been for the past two hundred years will cost

I have seven canvas grocery bags... four of them I received for free from one promotion or another, the other three were left in shopping carts. And you're right... simply a local or state subsidy for canvas bags would prevent the vast majority of financial hardships it may otherwise bring.

That aside, I believe we are going to have to realize that keeping Earth healthier than we have been for the past two hundred years will cost. It will cost everyone. Granted, the vast majority of those costs are simply sacrificing conveniences-- no more 30 minute hot showers three times a day, no more plastic bags, etc...

[xor]

46. I don't see why they are viewed as a inconvenience (other than initial cost)

If anything, they are far easier since they don't tear.

[EFerrari]

49. People don't like change most of the time unless it's our idea

imo.

:)