Military will write the rules on repeal of gay ban (incl. "No public displays of affection")

[Turborama]

Source: AP

By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press – 2 hrs 46 mins ago

WASHINGTON – No public displays of affection. No separate bathrooms. No harassment and no special treatment. As the U.S. military begins to map out how it will implement the new edict allowing gays to serve openly, the first order of business is drafting the regulations.

The rule changes under discussion won't dictate how troops feel about the change, but will strictly enforce how they act on it.

From small wording tweaks and training programs to more complex questions about benefits and religion, the proposed guidelines demand that gays and lesbians be treated just like any other soldier, sailor, airman or marine. But they also leave the door open for some flexibility in room assignments or other instances when commanders believe it's needed to maintain order and discipline in their units.

The Senate voted Saturday to repeal the ban on openly gay service, following earlier action by the House. Fulfilling a 2008 campaign promise, President Barack Obama plans to sign the bill into law on Wednesday at a Department of Interior ceremony. But in letters to the troops over the weekend, the four military service chiefs warned that the ban is still in place, and will be for some time to come.

"The implementation and certification process will not happen immediately; it will take time," Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz said in an e-mail to airmen. "Meanwhile, the current law remains in effect. All Air Force members should conduct themselves accordingly."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101221/ap_on_re_us/us_gays_in_military

[tomm2thumbs]

1. wondering if that 'no public displays of affection' is the same policy for straight couples

or just between other personnel in the service and within the context of serving time vs. personal time, etc

___

Guessing that John McCain is already submitting his rule list to the corps for their inclusion... forgive me for not trying to generate a list of what he might be thinking - it would be wallowing

[uppityperson]

2. I was wondering that also.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. That is for straight couples too

while at post and in uniform.

[sakabatou]

5. Ah ok.

[FreeState]

12. Thats not true

?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921F7C3FC3F69D929FDC2359EC7646F19CC2A200EC9B24D80E0CF01A9E9698D6106E30A760B0D811297

[tomm2thumbs]

15. there are going to be some interesting challenges ahead....

<g>

juxtaposing gay couples in those pictures - going to change the face of America in a good way

[jmowreader]

19. They make exceptions for homecoming ceremonies

Speaking of those images:

One of the biggest irritants to a guy who was a single soldier during most of his 12 years were those fucking homecoming ceremonies. What would happen is we'd come back from somewhere and all the married soldiers would get back with their families then go off to "reunite," while the single soldiers were stuck with cleaning all the field gear, washing all the vehicles...we even had a first sergeant at Fort Drum who thought the single troops should clean the married troops' personal gear and weapons.

Worse: the Enlisted Wives Club. We had a bunch at Fort Hood who thought that when soldiers came back from the woods, the first thing we all wanted was cookies. So, because our battalion commander had turned his balls over to the EWC, all the single soldiers had to go to this hour-long thing in the battalion classroom where we'd be served cookies and punch before we could go clean our weapons and vehicles and turn our sensitive items in. What a single soldier wants when he gets back from the woods is a shower, to turn in all his accountable items, and a meal of pizza and beer or some other similarly cherished comfort food.

[snooper2]

32. It's displays of affection between two troops..

jesabus...

:banghead:

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Are they BOTH in uniform?

As I said, while on post and IN UNIFORM.

That means BOTH are members of the Armed Forces,

[cali]

41. uh, I believe the no pda rules apply to those in Uniform

none of your pics show two people in uniform.

[fasttense]

24. Yup, PDA is considered a no, no while in uniform on duty.

But, when off duty and meeting with family there are no real rules about PDA.

[bluestateguy]

6. As long as the policy is applied uniformly, it is reasonable

Civilian workplaces have similar rules too.

[Turborama]

7. The difference is, the military is a 24/7 workplace

I could be wrong, but I doubt if a married straight couple worked and lived on the same base it wouldn't turn any heads if either of them gave a goodbye kiss on the cheek as they parted after a meal in the canteen, or had a hug in the bar on the base, for a couple of examples.

[James48]

9. 21 years U.S. Army- married to another service member

and NO- no public displays of affection are permitted. Period.

We save it for behind closed doors in private. That's the way it is.

[FreeState]

10. Question about that.... I live in San Diego and every time the Navy comes back into port

they show men kissing their wives on the news with the ship in the background. Is that not considered on duty?

[fasttense]

25. No, it's not considered on duty. They are going on liberty or leave.

But there are rules about inappropriate behavior while in uniform. Some commands enforce them, some commands are more lenient. It's kind of up to their Commanding Officer.

[Turborama]

13. Riiiight...

[tomm2thumbs]

17. there you go with your facts again!

tsk tsk tsk - facts are tricky things

[Robb]

28. Homecomings and goodbyes for deployment are specifically exempted.

[Turborama]

29. I was responding to this: "no public displays of affection are permitted. Period"

Also, it seems not all of those photos are of homecomings and goodbyes.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Turborama]

34. .

[hack89]

44. PDA only applies when both are wearing uniforms. nt

[Turborama]

46. And the people expressing PDA in those photos are wearing uniforms.

[LanternWaste]

39. Context.

Context. It's not just for breakfast anymore...

[Turborama]

40. If, in the context of the photos I have posted, we can see same sex couples kissing and hugging

Then we will be seeing a true paradigm shift.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. LOL. I've *never* been in a workplace where heterosexuality..

... and homosexuality were treated uniformly in even the *b r o a d e s t * sense of the word. Regardless of what rules applied on paper.

It's great they changed DADT but it's not going to change the *atmosphere* that much for the average GI.

At least I don't THINK.

In other words... the policy will NEVER be applied uniformly.

[FreeState]

11. My current job treats them 100% the same (its the first job I've had to do so too)

but that may be because its gay owned and operated - in fact there isn't a single straight person working there right now.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

31. Were all the straight people drummed out?

Sometimes it's not easy to recognize discrimination.

:hi:

[FreeState]

36. No - its the nature of the business Im in

I've been with the same company for 11 years - in that 11 years we have had 1 woman (bisexual, she worked here twice actually) and 1 straight person that we are aware of apply.

[sarge43]

21. It was when I was a eager young thing.

In uniform, on duty, very strict such as no holding hands let alone spit exchange - married or not. Off duty, in civies, a little less strict, but still "get a room".

[pasto76]

26. A lot of this stuff is covered in (the army at least) in AR 670-1 Wear and Appearance of the Uniform

prohibits PDA, eating and walking at the same time, crossing your legs while sitting...mundane stuff but applicable.

[14thColony]

27. Yes, it has been that way at least since 1985 when I showed up

No hand-holding, no kissing if either person is in uniform at the time. When neither is in uniform, the rule does not apply regardless of location.

[tabasco]

43. Yes, it is.

Was the same rule for straights before this.

[Old Troop]

47. Yup. Sure is and I ran afoul of it in the 70s.

[onehandle]

3. My guess is that it will still be an atmosphere of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell.'

And that few soldiers will actually make a big deal of 'coming out.'

Pretty much like the real world. Nobody 'talks' about their sexuality. Who cares?

The threat of the axe will be gone and it will be business as usual, defending the country. As it should be.

[defendandprotect]

20. Except, I imagine there will be a few homophobes who will try to

create problems -- but best wishes to all serving now and

trust this will make life much easier for them --

Also wonder if those who were discharged can now come back?

A lot of talent was dumped over the years ...

For absolutely no good reason -- !!

[ZombieHorde]

14. This too shall pass. nt

[JDPriestly]

16. For the military brass, the end of Don't Ask Don't Tell means that gay

soldiers will not be vulnerable to blackmail and may be less depressed and angry. The point is that people will not have to fear reprisals just for being gay. That is definitely important to national security. Public displays of attention while really on duty would seem to be a distraction for everyone involved, so I can't see why that would be allowed for anyone in the service. But affection when returning home or leaving -- that's just tradition. I should think that gay people would be free to do that too. It would not hurt anyone.

But the important thing is that gays and lesbians do not have to fear reprisals if the military finds out they are what they are. That makes everyone safer.

[DallasNE]

22. More Soldiers Discharged After DADT Than Before

The soldiers lived by the "don't tell" rule but the military did not fully comply with the "don't ask" part. Consider the case in Rapid City, South Dakota where a woman was discharged because the military said that when they peeked through the window at her home, while she was at work, they saw an Iowa marriage license on the table. That was a case where there was an arrest warrant from another State for the married partner and local law enforcement went running to the military with data gained from their grilling of the married partner. Many think the police found the marriage license during a home search and put it on the table right before they called the military.

[and-justice-for-all]

18. No one should be walking around holding hands...

or being affectionate while on duty. "No public displays of affection. No separate bathrooms. No harassment and no special treatment" all of which should also apply to deh straights.

[SkyDaddy7]

23. Yes, when I was in the Air Force...

They called it "PDA" "Public Display of Affection" & it was highly frowned upon not just while on duty but in uniform! I knew several people who were disciplined for such violations! So, this is nothing new.

Of course, a blind eye is turned for returning troops...It was after the first gulf war & it is now...As long as everyone is treated the same then there will not be any problems.

[closeupready]

37. As long as there's no discrimination in application, I think it's better to ban PDA's.

Nothing I hate more than heterosexual PDA's, so fair's fair.

[and-justice-for-all]

38. exactly...nt

[greymattermom]

30. does this mean

no more butt slaps and shoulder pats for the straight guys?

[Creative]

45. Please, it's not like this policy will be fully implemented tomorrow.

Yes, the military will write the rules. Then, they will modify them, then...modify them some more...

It will be an evolutionary process.