Arizona Hospital Loses Catholic Status Over Surgery

[DeSwiss]

Source: Huffington Post (AP)

Ariz. hospital loses Catholic status over surgery

Huffington Post | AMANDA LEE MYERS | 12/21/10 04:58 PM | AP

PHOENIX — The Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix stripped a major hospital of its affiliation with the church Tuesday because of a surgery that ended a woman's pregnancy to save her life. Bishop Thomas Olmsted called the 2009 procedure an abortion and said St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center – recognized internationally for its neurology and neurosurgery practices – violated ethical and religious directives of the national Conference of Catholic Bishops.

"In the decision to abort, the equal dignity of mother and her baby were not both upheld," Olmsted said at a news conference announcing the decision. "The mother had a disease that needed to be treated. But instead of treating the disease, St. Joseph's medical staff and ethics committee decided that the healthy, 11-week-old baby should be directly killed."

Linda Hunt, president of St. Joseph's, said doctors performed a necessary procedure on a patient who was getting worse by the minute and was in imminent danger of death. "If we are presented with a situation in which a pregnancy threatens a woman's life, our first priority is to save both patients. If that is not possible, we will always save the life we can save, and that is what we did in this case," Hunt said. "Morally, ethically, and legally, we simply cannot stand by and let someone die whose life we might be able to save."

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/21/ariz-hospital-loses-catho_n_799863.html

[Hawkeye-X]

1. I am thankful that my hospital close by is not even close to Catholic

It was founded as a General Hospital, but since then has expanded and almost every doctor that I need is there. When I recently broke my foot, I went to the orthopedic specialist who was located near that hospital, so it was easy enough of a drive.

The closest Catholic hospital is St. Joseph's which is owned by the Church and has already banned abortion as part of their policy.

[DeSwiss]

4. I oppose tax-exempted status for any religion.

I especially oppose it for those religions who stick their noses into areas that is none of their business.

- And here is just one of the many examples why they shouldn't be granted special privileges within society.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

20. "...who stick their noses into areas that is none of their business."

That covers everything but personal hygiene.

[DeSwiss]

26. Agreed....

- And I'll even include personal hygiene as being none of their business -- for all those who remain downwind of me.....

[saigon68]

35. They don't have a problem with their guys fondling genitals

http://www.wicourts.gov/ca/opinion/DisplayDocument.html?content=html&seqNo=20657

Feeney contends there is no evidence he touched Troy or Todd for sexual arousal or gratification, and he attempts to analogize to Forster to support his position. In that case, the defendant massaged the male victim’s nipple for approximately twenty-five minutes while kissing his neck. Id., ¶9. Feeney suggests these factors—the length of the assault and the “additional element” of kissing—are dispositive. He argues that because the boys could not pinpoint any length of time that Feeney touched them and “there is not an additional factor such as the kissing,” there is no evidence he touched them for arousal or gratification.

[DeSwiss]

37. ARGGHHHHH!!!!!!

- It's too late, I can't un-read that.......

[napi21]

2. I've been a Catholic all my life, and I think the Bishops were dead wrong on this!

The hospital would have been negligent had they done anything else in this case.

[DeSwiss]

5. Maybe the laity should tell the bishops. n/t

[Dulcinea]

45. I left the RCC long ago because of situations like these.

Their stand on abortion has nothing to do with the "sanctity of life." It's about control over women & their bodies. As far as they're concerned, women either get to be nuns or crank out as many Catholic babies as possible, who of course will grow up to generously support the Church. It's about making sure the money keeps coming in, & that uppity women stay in their place.

When they admit they're wrong on almost every issue that pertains to women, I might consider going back. But it took the Catholic Church 500 years to admit they were wrong about Galileo & Joan of Arc, so I'm not holding my breath.

[glinda]

3. New rules issued awhile back by the Catholic Church also makes it impossible to pull the plug.

[DeSwiss]

6. They also have rules against.....

...child abuse and yet those seem to be regularly violated by the rulemakers themselves.

- And it seems as if they aren't violating the rules, then they're covering up the violations of those who do.....

[Brickbat]

7. An "11-week-old baby"? Um, NO.

[Monique1]

8. Here is more

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x52241

[boppers]

9. Yeah, that was an eye-opener for me, too.

Not even 3 (three!) months, and totally not viable on its own.

[DeSwiss]

10. Um, NO in spades. n/t

[Hawkeye-X]

12. 11 week old fetus!

not a baby!

(Thanks)

[SnakeEyes]

14. actually the 11th week is the fetus stage in humans

typically the beginning.

[Hawkeye-X]

19. Corrected

Thanks!

[emsimon33]

23. It's not about whether the fetus was "human";

it was about whose life could be saved.

From Wiki Answers:
From doing extensive reasearch I have found the most accurate list of estimated survival rates:
Prematurity
Advances in medical care have made it possible for many infants born prematurely to survive and develop normally. The earlier the gestational age, the greater the chance of death or significant medical problems. Whether or not a premature infant will survive is intimately tied to his or her gestational age:

21 weeks or less: 0 percent survival rate
22 weeks: 0-10 percent survival rate
23 weeks: 10-35 percent survival rate
24 weeks: 40-70 percent survival rate
25 weeks: 50-80 percent survival rate
26 weeks: 80-90 percent survival rate
27 weeks: greater than 90 percent survival rate


Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_survival_rate_for_a_fetus_born_at_20_weeks#ixzz18pLgg5yo

[Rozlee]

16. A bunch of these anti-choicers don't even want ectopic pregnancies terminated

My sister comes home with a bunch of these crazy pamplets of theirs that have one-in-a-million stories of a baby that was delivered outside the uterus, next to the liver or some other near impossible rarity. See, they say. A baby can survive extra-uterine pregnancies. Yeah, and mothers can die from hemorrhaging from ruptured tubes or be rendered sterile if they need a hysterectomy from one. But, even a zygote is a "baby," for crying out loud. In fact, my sister once told my fourteen year old daughter that sperm were "potential babies." I turned and told my 18-year-old son, "Remember that the next time you jack off. You'll be killing 24 million potential babies."

[silverweb]

21. By their logic, exfoliation is murder.

We are all murders every time we scratch, bathe, or brush our hair.

Since the first cloned human embryo from a single skin cell was produced in 2008, every human cell is a potential baby.

Therefore, we must prohibit any action that kills human cells and therefore potential babies!!

:crazy: :silly: :crazy:

[PassingFair]

46. Save the PreConceived Babies!

http://web.archive.org/web/20021123185843/http://www.geocities.com/preconceivedbabies/

[SnakeEyes]

13. eh?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

47. The poster said 11 weeks into pregnancy does not a "baby" make. Was that clear enough?

Why the "eh?"

[No Elephants]

51. .Would you say a baby born 11 weeks ago is 9 months and 11 weeks old?

[Moonwalk]

11. Can't they just ask for forgiveness? I mean, isn't that what...

...the church preaches? If they're really sorry that they did it, they can do a penance and be restored to the fold?

[DeSwiss]

15. It would seem.....

...that they're only interested in forgiving their own.

- When covering up for them just isn't enough......

[davidthegnome]

17. Another reason to be glad

I abandoned the church years ago. Technically they'd still consider me Catholic - but after debating theocracy or ethics the vast majority of the clergy would not be particularly fond of me. Suppose it's good they can't still burn people at the stake.

[DeSwiss]

18. Yeah, they'll still count you.....

...because they only consider http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html">apostasy, heresy or schism as valid reasons for "defection" of The Church, and even then only when they agree you can leave! Which only serves to show that they're only interested in being considered No. 1.

- All and in all a pretty sick bunch of mofos......

[Confusious]

24. Well said, and might I add.. assholes. nt

[emsimon33]

22. The Catholic hierarchy is making the Catholic church irrelevant

[DeSwiss]

25. ....

"The Catholic hierarchy is making the Catholic church even more irrelevant"

;) /fixed

[radhika]

27. Why is this Religion still around? n/t

[DeSwiss]

29. I think Jesus & Mo pretty much covers it....

[Odin2005]

28. Goodf riddance. Fuck the RCC.

[DeSwiss]

32. Agreed....

...and yet they'll twist this into "oh me, oh my we're being persecuted!!!" Worse, we'll no doubt have to be treated to another haranguing diatribe from Bill "Super Catholic" Donohue.

- Here ya go:

[crim son]

30. It's now a better hospital.

I think about Catholic schools like I do the Catholic Church. If you don't like the rules of the religion, then stay away. But in the case of a hospital there is sometimes no time to choose between the religious and the secular. The idea that because a patient happens to land at one of the thousands of St. Joe's across the country, s/he is denied the privilege of making personal medical decisions, is INSANE.

[DeSwiss]

33. Which is one more reason why.....

...I oppose all religions receiving any type of privileged status which allows them to skirt public and/or case law. Nor should they receive any kind of tax-exemptions for doing works which any non-for-profit can do without making demands upon its clients for fealty to their deity for services received.

- Because the very nature and design of religion is antithetical to the benefit of secular society in the here and now.

[nyy1998]

31. Nice to see the Catholic Church stand for women's health and common decency

:sarcasm:

[DeSwiss]

34. Although.....

...it's going to be a little awkward when (or if) she goes to communion next time with the full knowledge that these people had written her off to Jesus already.

[The Second Stone]

36. An 11 week old baby? I think not.

An 11 week old fetus, perhaps. An 11 week old healthy baby has a certificate of live birth and is busy eating, sleeping and eliminating and crying, cooing etc. The bishop is misinforming.

[DeSwiss]

38. "The bishop is misinforming."

- It's what they do best.....

[lonestarnot]

39. So now they just have status as cat lickers or what?

[DeSwiss]

40. No, not cat lickers.....

...just as an institution which follows the logical path of medical science and that of ethics. As opposed to The Catholic Church which stands for none of these things.

- Particularly ethics.....

[alarimer]

41. Fuck the Catholic Church

Murdering bastards.

[saigon68]

42. ~

[Demeter]

43. No Great Loss

More like getting a two tonne weight off ones back....

[panzerfaust]

44. Wonder if they have excommunicated her yet?

Lessons in morality from the Roman Catholic Church I will not take - they have shed oceans of blood in forcing adherence to their delusions and would have been happy to have added this unfortunate woman's life as well.

If she was not Catholic, the Holy Mother Church considers her, and any non-catholics, Hell-bound anyhow.

[saigon68]

48. forcing adherence to their delusions

LOL

[TlalocW]

49. Exactly what does stripping a hospital of its Catholic affiliation do?

They gotta change the name?
You can't claim the Wheat Thins in the kitchen are the body of Christ anymore?
The kids in the children's ward are automatically safer?

TlalocW

[AlphaCentauri]

50. even the kookoos have infiltrated the catholic church in Arizona

not just the state assembly and the Governor office