Company recalls ground beef over E. coli fears

[OhioChick]

Source: CNN.com

December 31, 2010 5:30 a.m. EST

(CNN) -- A California company has recalled 34,373 pounds of organic ground beef over fears of E. coli contamination.

First Class Foods Inc. of Hawthorne said recalled packages were produced on December 7 and December 16.

They have "EST. 18895" printed on them, federal officials said.

Products were shipped to California, New Jersey, North Carolina, New York, Wisconsin and Washington state.

A company sampling confirmed a positive result for E. coli. The company and federal officials have not received reports of illnesses associated with these products.


Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/12/31/california.beef.recall/index.html?hpt=T2

[defendandprotect]

1. The man tells you to eat animals ... you get sick -- let's end this violence --

[Po_d Mainiac]

2. So you eat vegetables... You get sick

We're quickly running out of options

[Kolesar]

4. You can leave an apple on the counter for a day and still eat it

Try that with a pound of beef.

[HereSince1628]

5. Well, leave a pound of seasoned ground beef hanging around

from the rafters, it's called sausage.

[Po_d Mainiac]

80. Your apple has likely been treated with chemicals

Otherwise it would probably disgust you. And that worm shit might make you ill.

[defendandprotect]

11. Animal-eating is not only making folks sick, it's polluting air, soil, water ... and planet ... !!

Vegetables nourish and heal every part of your body -- just as fruit does.

How poorly informed are you?

PLANTS are our medicines/drugs --

[AlecBGreen]

52. there are many "aware" farmers who are doing the opposite

Our current production model of CAFOs and grain production is tremendously destructive and creates unhealthy animals, people and environments. However there are good people raising excellent, nutritious (HEALTHY!) meat and repairing degraded landscapes at the same time. Grasslands have a tremendous ability to sequester carbon if grazed correctly. Unfortunately many ranchers/graziers practice set-stocking (= continuous grazing) which does the soil no favors.

edit - speling

[defendandprotect]

63. You're supporting raising an animal to eat, which eats what you could be eating?

Obviously, you're also connecting with this as not only a political issue but

an emotional issue -- and it is both. No one is saying that those who support factory

farming are "bad people" - nor that any farmer is not a good person.

Rather, it's a question of understanding things in a different way from what you've been

taught by capitalism, in our public schools.

Nor is it necessary for any human to eat an animal/dairy to be healthy. In fact,

eating these products produces illness -- and we should be able to see that clearly

since we have one of the sickest populations here in America --

CANCERS -- 1 of every 3 in America now!

Diabetes -- juvenile diabetes --

Hypertention -- strokes -- heart attacks --

Osteoporosis

Obesity

Eating animals is not only making humans sick -- it's making the planet sick.


ALL BEST WISHES TO EVERYONE FOR PEACE AND LOVE IN 2011 --

[Po_d Mainiac]

79. I am unable to digest grass...That little problem

about only being factory equipped with one stomach.

Cows are grass eating machines, that turn inedible vegetation into an edible product. Meat. Grass fed beef critters produce much leaner/healthier meat than grained livestock. The waste product supplies nourishment to food crops that would otherwise fail to grow in the nutrient depleted soil.

A compost pile is a useless mass unless something eats the matter and craps it out. Worm shit, microbe shit, or cow shit is still shit. That stuff coming out of the exhaust pipe on a hummingbird or a bumble bee that is adding nitrates to the soil, is shit.

You have two choices. Either your food is grown in an artificial environment and supplemented by chemical fertilizers or it's grown the way Mother Nature intended in soil comprised of lots of shit.

Organic is just a euphemism for "grown in shit"

[Po_d Mainiac]

54. How poorly informed are u?

http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/little-bear-vegetable-recall-15250/
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/about_us/as_seen_on/nationwide-frozen-vegetable-recall
http://www.bestsyndication.com/?q=20100709_spinach_recall_ecoli_contamination_ready_pac_brand.htm
http://canada-food-recall-allergy.blogspot.com/2010/03/fontaine-sante-salmonella-recall.html

The beef in my freezer was the same critter that supplied the fertilizer for the peas, beans and corn in the other freezer.

[defendandprotect]

65. Where is it written that we need to throw fecal matter from animals on our soil?

[Po_d Mainiac]

81. Soil is useless/sterile dirt without fecal matter.

That is why crops fail after a rain forest has been cleared.

[jmowreader]

82. Industrial plant agriculture does the exact same thing

Because our food production system is so heavily weighted toward a style of agriculture that says grow only one thing on your land, every year, farmers have to use chemical fertilizers, herbicides, and pesticides to grow anything. In the old days, a farmer would practice crop rotation. In the industrial agriculture system we use now, they don't do that.

Oh, and we can't forget the practice of putting migrant workers out there with no bathroom or handwashing facilities, which puts human feces on the food harvested from these fields.

Not sure whether e.coli from contaminated hamburger or e.coli from contaminated spinach is worse, but I don't want either one.

[Kali]

3. you can get sick eating ANYTHING

hell, most illness is not food-born at all, maybe stop going out in public or breathing

:eyes:

[defendandprotect]

12. You don't need fecal matter on animal producs to get sick from eating them....

animal products are responsible for cancers, hypertension, heart disease, disabetes,

obesity -- on and on --

:eyes: :eyes:

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

36. There's every evidence that animal eating/dairy is making humans ill...

look around you -- in every neighborhood health care services predominate --

not as health prevention, but because of the many illnesses Americans suffer from ---

Cancer now 1 in every 3 Americans!

How many by-pass surgeries does it take for you to see the evidence?

[valerief]

6. I think it's what's in the feces that gets you sick. That's in meat and even vegetables now.

Monsanto must be building it in.

[AndyTiedye]

8. If Farmworkers Are Not Provided With Adequate Sanitary Facilities…

[Gormy Cuss]

9. More like "If the cow manure isn't handled properly. "

Farm worker fecal contamination is a less likely cause these days than errors in the handling of animal fecal products.

Focusing solely on the workers' lack of sanitary facilities has the unintended consequence of reinforcing stereotypes about the workers.

[defendandprotect]

66. We shouldn't ignore either that farm workers often work under conditions which do NOT

provide proper facilities for bathooming --

That's a human need which when ignored, complicates other issues.

[arikara]

83. Some are using sewage sludge for factory farming

human waste which includes residue from all the medications that people are on nowadays. The plants take this in and we eat it. Cow manure is also full of antibiotics and growth hormones which plants also take in.

[defendandprotect]

14. FDA permits 17% fecal matter on the animals ... it comes from the animals....

and the conditions in the slaughter house --

however, animal products are not only making humans ill, they are

polluting the soil and water -- damaging the planet.

It's another issue of exploitation -- if you want to end exploitation of

humans, begin with ending the exploitation of animals.

[valerief]

27. I like eggs. Cooked completely. Yum! nt

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OhioChick]

34. I'd like to see a reputable link to this 17% figure myself n/t

[defendandprotect]

39. Believe it was during the Clinton administration that 17% figure was let loose ....

Meanwhile, they are talking about "rectal plugs" -- "irradiating" animal carcasses --

and putting "ammonia" into ground beef --

If you can ignore that much reality, then carry on -- and don't bother reading

the rest of this --

There's a lot of info on the internet about what is actually going on -- IF you want to know.


The cattle that so many folks eat every day not only fatten on the flesh of their fellows, but they also feed on the manure of other species. Feast your eyes on this information from the U.S. News and World Report: “Chicken manure in particular, which costs from $15 to $45 a ton in comparison with up to $125 a ton for alfalfa, is increasingly used as feed by cattle farmers despite possible health risks to consumers... more and more farmers are turning to chicken manure as a cheaper alternative to grains and hay.”

The same story quotes farmer Lamar Carter, who feeds to his 800 head of cattle a witches’ brew of soybean bran and chicken manure: “My cows are as fat as butter balls. If I didn't have chicken litter, I’d have to sell half my herd. Other feed's too expensive.”

Farmer Carter doesn't mention this, but reporters Satchell and Hedges do: “Chicken manure often contains campylobacter and salmonella bacteria, which can cause disease in humans, as well as intestinal parasites, veterinary drug residues, and toxic heavy metals such as arsenic, lead, cadmium, and mercury. These bacteria and toxins are passed on to the cattle and can be cycled to humans who eat beef contaminated by feces during slaughter.”

If they're not being fed on rendered by-products or chicken manure, according to the Satchell and Hedges article, “Animal feed manufacturers and farmers also have begun using or trying out dehydrated food garbage, fats emptied from restaurant fryers and grease traps, cement kiln dust, even newsprint and cardboard that are derived from plant cellulose. Researchers in addition have experimented with cattle and hog manure, and human sewage sludge. New feed additives are being introduced so fast, says Daniel McChesney, head of animal feed safety for the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, that the government cannot keep pace with new regulations to cover them.”

Cattle and hog manure and human sewage sludge as possible foods for the animals eaten by human beings.

http://www.realfoods.net/meat.html



Modern Meat in America--A Brutal Harvest
U.S. Department of Agriculture inspectors who patrol the nation's ... Criticism of the USDA's enforcement record comes as ... The presence of fecal matter greatly increases ...
organicconsumers.org/toxic/brutalmeat.cfm - Cached

Let Them Eat Feces: Agribusiness & Government Move to Weaken ...
The Wall Street Journal reported on Sept. 18 that Clinton has sent USDA secretary Dan Glickman to Russia to deal with the "growing backlash" against food exports to ...
www.inmotionmagazine.com/waste.html - Cached



Statistics over the past 4 years indicate that up to 35% of America's hamburger meat may be contaminated by feces, with up to 1.5%-3.5% likely containing the deadly e-coli 0157. In 1993 the Foundation on Economic Trends sued the USDA over the e-coli and meat contamination issue--forcing the government to begin placing warning labels on all 2 billion packages of fresh meat sold in the USA each year. Statistics on salmonella and feces contamination of poultry and eggs are even worse, with the Clinton Administration announcing in July 1996 that the government's long-term goals were to reduce feces residues on poultry to just under 50%!



Rectal plug and method of introducing same into a slaughtered animal

Rectal plug and method of introducing same into a slaughtered ...
Fecal leakage and contamination from the vent opening of an animal carcass during ... animal to meet U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA ... of fecal matter on the animal ...
www.freepatentsonline.com/RE36994.html - Cached




http://www.freepatentsonline.com/RE36994.html

The self-inspection program, which was implemented in 1997 in a handful of plants that volunteered for the project, originally used only company “inspectors” to examine carcasses. The program was revised in 2000 to require a token government inspector at the end of the slaughter line to observe tens of thousands of carcasses rapidly moving by each day. However, the inspector may not look inside carcasses, where much contamination resides. The HIMP program also relies on chemical washes, sprays and other “interventions” to treat contamination that is still on the carcass.

Under the prior inspection system, beef, pork and poultry were inspected continuously during slaughter and processing by government inspectors who relied on sight, touch and smell to check for animal disease or fecal matter. There were two to four inspectors per plant, and slaughter lines were much slower.




.Most consumers would be appalled to find out that the USDA has even considered reducing the meat inspection system to an industry honor system.”

That’s right – no bacterial sampling allowed by those pesky USDA inspectors – after all, they might actually find something.

They are allowed to eyeball the carcass. If they find a problem, can they stop the line or pull the carcass? Nope. They’re supposed to run down the production line and – wait for it – watch…

to see if the comapny’s people find it, too.

So instead of testing every carcass for shit in the packing house, the USDA tests them for shit in food using you – the public.

You eat the poultry and meat with shit, and when you get sick enough, you come to the ER, my colleagues test you, you get antibiotics which might work (or might not – commercial meat and poultry give their animals antibiotics just to fatten them up.)


http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/01/drop-that-patty-before-it-drops-you/



PCRM petition to USDA regarding feces in meat.
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE FOOD SAFETY AND ... this matter to USDA.<43> C ... of any carcass with visible fecal contamination. Thereafter, USDA began
dfwnetmall.com/veg/pcrmpetition.htm - Cached


However, it is not the actual consumption of meat and poultry<2> that causes foodborne illness, although such consumption
increases the risk of heart disease, hypertension, diabetes, cancer, and other health conditions. Rather, it is the presence of
feces on meat and poultry that causes humans to ingest foodborne pathogens and, therefore, get sick from eating these
products. Despite the “official” USDA policy of zero tolerance for fecal contamination, the extraordinary rates of foodborne
illness in this country are directly caused by eating poultry and meat contaminated with feces even though they passed
inspection by USDA’s Food Safety and Inspection Service (“FSIS”).



FSIS oversees the inspection of all poultry and meat products. FSIS also implements the zero-tolerance policy for fecal
contamination—albeit only for visible fecal contamination—through directives that authorize spraying, washing, trimming, or
steam-vacuuming carcasses to remove visible feces, checking quality control data, and infrequent fecal spot-checks for process
control. Yet, the prevalence of foodborne illness in this country caused by eating fecally contaminated meat and poultry
remains staggeringly high, providing clear evidence that current inspection methods and regulations are insufficient and
misdirected.

2. Amend Title 9 of the Code of Federal Regulations to mandate that, in addition to the inspection legend and safe-handling
instructions, all meat and poultry products carry a biohazard warning label stating: “Biohazard: This product may be
contaminated with feces and, therefore, hazardous to your health.”

Foods contaminated with salmonella are usually of animal origin, such as raw poultry, beef, and pork, though it is most widely
associated with raw poultry.<20>

The bacteria live in the intestinal tracts of infected animals and are usually transmitted to
humans through eating food contaminated with animal feces. Pathogenic salmonella bacteria may not cause symptoms in animals but can still make people sick.


As with E. coli 0157:H7, meat and poultry contaminated with salmonella look and smell normal. Consequently, because
current inspection standards do not ensure a poultry and meat supply free from salmonella contamination, consumers are
advised to “thoroughly” cook their poultry and meat to kill the pathogen.

http://dfwnetmall.com/veg/pcrmpetition.htm



Currently, large percentages of animals are contaminated when their intestines are punctured and stool spills onto the meat that is being processed.

This is where the problem lies, NOT in proper cooking. If a restaurant receives meat that is filled with stool they would have to incinerate the meat to destroy the amount of E. coli present. The problem is NOT with the cooking of the beef or the restaurants, it is primarily with the slaughterhouses and the USDA that is not properly enforcing the rules.

Beef-Inspection Failures Let In a Deadly Microbe

Nearly a century after Upton Sinclair exposed the scandal of America's slaughterhouses in his novel "The Jungle," some of the nation's largest meatpacking plants still fail to meet federal inspection guidelines to produce meat free of disease-carrying filth, an investigation by The Washington Post and Dateline NBC has found.

U.S. Department of Agriculture inspectors who patrol the nation's 6,000 meatpacking plants today are armed with more modern tools and tougher standards than ever. But the government's watchdog agency often has lacked the legal muscle and political will to address serious safety threats. It cannot impose civil fines or recall meat even when its inspectors see problems that could lead to outbreaks.

The USDA estimates that salmonella is present in 35 percent of turkeys, 11 percent of chickens and 6 percent of ground beef. Each year, food-borne pathogens cause 76 million illnesses and 5,000 deaths, according to the CDC.

Viadero said the agency was "uncertain of its authorities" and had "reduced its oversight short of what is prudent and necessary for the protection of the consumer."

"After what I've seen," Viadero said in an interview, "if my hamburgers don't look like hockey pucks, I don't eat them."

Meat inspectors and consumer groups like HACCP's microbe-testing requirements, but some argue the new system is an "industry-honor system" that puts consumers at greater risk. Under the old system, meat with fecal matter on it was trimmed to remove pathogens. Now, inspectors say, chemical rinses can wash off visible traces of fecal matter without removing all the pathogens.

Excel promised to retrain its workers and fine-tune its carcass-dressing system, although details of its plan are considered proprietary information. But more contaminated carcasses turned up two days later, and regularly after that, agency records show:

•Oct. 1: "Fecal contamination observed . . . sample failed to meet zero-tolerance requirements."
•Oct. 2: "Identifiable fecal deficiencies on two carcasses (out of 11)."
•Oct. 4: "Fecal contamination splotched in an area 1 inch by 4 inches . . . carcasses retained."
•Oct. 9: "Deficiencies were observed on six carcasses (out of 11).

"The American people would be shocked," said Sen. Tom Harkin, an Iowa Democrat and sponsor of several previous bills, "to learn that the USDA does not have the fundamental authority to protect public health."

http://www.mercola.com/article/irradiated/irradiation_safety.htm

[Nikia]

44. I'm missing the part about 17%

Do you mean that up to 17% of carcasses can have some feces or do you mean per weight of carcass? At what point in the slaughter/processing is this 17% applicable? I can't believe that applies to finished meat being packaged for consumers, especially by weight.

[defendandprotect]

45. It means any animal carcass can have as much as 17% fecal matter

and still be approved --

but if you've read anything of the prior post, you understand that their is

very little power on the side of inspection -- as in most other political issues

we face today. And, yes, animal products/dairy -- what you eat -- are political issues,

with high corporate involvement.

Also keep in mind that even the chemical rinses used on some of the carcasses don't

completely remove fecal matter. And, often the fecal matter is INSIDE of the carcass.

Did you read what these animals are being fed?

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

67. When people in Congress want to get info out -- people like Sen. Tom Harkin --

it doesn't come with a "citation."

If you read anything I've posted it is obvious that inspections are mainly in

the hands of the owners of slaughter houses -- and very little power is in the

hands these days of our govenrment agencies.

That's what happens when corporations replace a people's government --

and from the EPA to the FDA and USDA they are now mainly run "of, by, and for

the corporation."

[defendandprotect]

13. Animal carcasses by FDA law can have 17% fecal matter on them .....

they have been feeding other animals to these animals --

including road kill!!

These animals are herbivores --

Not only are animal products making humans ill, they are polluting

the soil, water -- and damaging the planet.

If you want to end the corporate exploitation of humans, begin with

ending the corporate exploitation of animals.

[Love Bug]

7. Didn't we get a warning this week about samonella from alfalfa sprouts?

It ain't just meat, you know. It's unsanitary farming and processing practices.

[valerief]

10. That's right! Alfalfa. Next it'll be Spanky and Darlene. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

16. or Buckwheat...

:)

[valerief]

17. Oh, not Buckwheat!!!! nt

[awoke_in_2003]

18. Remember the Saturday Night Live skits...

"Buckwheat Sings the Classics"? I have "unc, tise, tee times a madey" going through my head.

[valerief]

19. Yes, that was my second favorite Murphy character after Mr. Robinson. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

21. I know it wasn't a recurring character....

but remember "Images", by Tyrone Greene:

Dark and lonely on a summer's night
Kill my landlord, kill my landlord
Watchdog barking- do he bite?
Kill my landlord, kill my landlord
Slip in his window, break his neck
then his house I start to wreck
Got no reason- What the heck?
Kill my landlord, kill my landlord
C-I-L-L my landlord

[valerief]

23. No, I didn't remember him. Had to look him up. Funny.

http://videosift.com/video/Eddie-Murphy-Kill-The-White-People

[awoke_in_2003]

24. While you're at it...

check out "White like me"

[valerief]

25. Can't find it. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

26. I can't view videos at work...

if I remember, I will find it when I get home and link it.

[valerief]

28. Thanks. Happy New Year! nt

[awoke_in_2003]

33. and to you...

here is the video (I had the choice of Hulu or NBC site- both are equally appalling in load time)
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/white-like-me/278716/

they keep their butts real tight :)

[valerief]

48. Funny. I liked when he studied the Hallmark cards. nt

[defendandprotect]

15. Alfalfa sprouts can only be contaminated in the way they are handled ....

huge processing plants obviously contribute to those conditions.

However, alfalfa sprouts will not make you ill when handled properly --

eating animal products will make you ill -- and they also pollute the air

water and soil -- and do damage to the planet.

[AndyTiedye]

32. Cows, Sheep, and Goats Have a Mavelous Ability to Turn Inedible Grass Into Yummy Food

[defendandprotect]

35. except for the last decades they've been feeding them OTHER animals, including road kill!!

[DesertFlower]

22. yes. we did and they were organic.

[flvegan]

55. They do get defensive, don't they?

[marybourg]

20. Lettuce, parsley, cilantro, arugula (O no, not arugula), beets, chard, etc etc

J&D Produce Announces Precautionary, Voluntary Recall Of Fresh Greens

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - December 28, 2010 - Including packaging details; states affected; and clarifying product only packed on two dates (Nov. 30 and Dec. 6, 2010) is covered by tbis recall - CURLY PARSLEY, PLU # 4899, Ontario, Washington. Massachusetts, Quebec, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, New Jersey, Missouri, Rhode Island, New York, Texas, Ohio, Connecticut

CILANTRO, PLU #4889, Ontario, Massachusetts, Washington, Quebec, New York, Illinois, Texas, Colorado, Michigan, New Jersey, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ohio

ARUGULA. PlU #4884, Ontario, Rhode Island, Texas

BEETS, PLU # 4539, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Ontario, Wisconsin, Quebec, Texas, Illinois, Rhode Island

PRECAUTIONARY, VOLUNTARY RECALL

COLLARDS, PLU # 4614, Ontario, Texas, Wisconsin, Quebec, Michigan, Ohio

CURLY MUSTARD, PLU # 4616, Quebec, Texas

DIAKON, does not contain PLU or UPC, Ontario, New York, Texas, Quebec

DILL, PLU # 4891, Ontario, Massachusetts, Quebec, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, Texas, New Jersey, Wisconsin

GOLDEN BEETS, PLU # 3273, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Wisconsin, Texas

GREEN KOHLRABI, PLU # 4628, Ohio, Ontario, Pennsylvania, Quebec, Wisconsin

GREEN SWISS CHARD, PLU # 4586, Illinois, New Jersey, New York, Ontario, Pennsylvania, Quebec, Rhode Island, Texas

KALE, PLU # 4627, Ontario, Quebec, Texas, Wisconsin, Montreal, Michigan, Illinois, Rhode Island, New York, Ohio, Toronto

LEEK, PLU # 4629 Texas

METHlLEAF, UPC # 664781 10500 4, Ontario, Texas

MINT, PLU # 4896, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Michigan

PARSLEY, PLU # 4901, Ontario, Washington, Quebec, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Michigan, Missouri, Ohio, New Jersey, Connecticut

RAINBOW CHARD, UPC # 66478140610 1, Illinois, Connecticut

RED SWISS CHARD, PLU # 4587, Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, Ontario, Quebec, Rhode Island, Texas

TEXAS MUSTARD, PLU # 4618, Oklahoma, Texas

TURNIPS WITH TOPS, PLU #4810, Texas, Michigan

TURNIP TOPS, PLU # 4619, Texas
See website for entire alert:

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/ucm238370.htm

[OhioChick]

30. Thank you for posting n/t

[defendandprotect]

37. Any contamination of vegetation is done by humans --

but good for everyone to be reminded how important it is that vegetables be

handled properly --

Vegetation contributes to health -- vegetables/fruits nuture every part of your body --

it's not just about filling your stomach.

Animal/dairy eating on the other hand is the road to illness, not only for humans but

for the planet!

[boppers]

38. Yeah, belladonna's totally safe to eat.

Any kind of mushroom you may find, too... it's just unsafe handling that makes food dangerous, not that the food may be unsafe, or contaminated by naturally occurring sources.

[defendandprotect]

40. You're comparing mushrooms with fecal matter on carcasses?

Belladonna is a plant. The leaf and root are used to make medicine.

Plants are not only our nutrition, they are our medicines.

The discussion is about FECAL MATTER contamining foods --

[boppers]

41. Then please let me know where in nature fecal matter does not exist.

The poles and the harsher deserts are the only places that come to mind, but they don't produce a lot of food... Just about everywhere else has animals in the environment, and animals poop.

Heck, in my neck of the woods, we try to get as much earthworm fecal matter into our gardens as possible, since the plants seem to like it quite a bit.

[defendandprotect]

43. Fecal matter isn't fertilizer ...

and there are differences in fecal matter --

between a cow/herbivore -- an a cow who has been fed other animals --

or any other animal which is fed other animals --

we known the message of that for hundreds of years -- cannibalism.

[AlecBGreen]

53. isnt animal manure "fecal matter?"

last I heard it makes an excellent soil amendment

I agree with you that livestock should not be fed other animals, except for pigs. They are omnivores that evolved to take in a lot of animal protein.

[boppers]

56. Chickens (and most birds) eat other animals, as well.

They're basically reptiles.

edit: Oh, and most fish eat other fish.

[defendandprotect]

59. When men fed animals to other animals, they created sickness ... it's historical....

and its based on cannibalism --

That history goes back at least 400-500 years -- and 50 years or so ago,

US began this practice again -- and retaught it to Europeans.

Mad Cow --

[boppers]

62. Humans have eaten snakes since pre-history, and never stopped raising them.

They fed animals to other animals, and then ate those animals.

I don't see how feeding a mouse, to a snake, and then eating that snake, is cannibalism.

[defendandprotect]

69. And, humans have been getting steadily sicker and sicker ....

how many more diseases do you want to add to our long list?

We're not talking about a snake or a mouse --

We're talking about feeding dead animals to cows, chickens, pigs --

even feeding them road kill.

Do a little research on "Mad Cow" --

[boppers]

73. You were talking about animals eating other animals.

That includes snakes eating mice, dogs eating squirrels, etc.

Oh, and the problem with mad cow wasn't animals eating other animals, it was animals eating *sick* animals, specifically, infected parts of sick animals. You can feed cows the legs of sheep with prion disease for thousands of years and *never* get a sick cow.

Don't feed them spinal cords or brains, though... that's where the disease hides.

[defendandprotect]

78. Are YOU eating mice and dogs .... ?

Perhaps you are obtuse?

The discussion of the cattle industry has to do with feeding animals other DEAD

animals -- including road kill.

If you can absorb that then move on to researching Mad Cow because someone has given

you very poor information on what it's all about --

The entire animal is infected with Mad Cow -- and it's generally only visible in cows

because they live long enough to show the symptoms --

which means that animals like chickens which are slaughtered earlier in the life

cycle can be infected with Mad Cow but not show visible signs of it.

[defendandprotect]

58. Animals have "evolved" the way we wanted them to -- there isn't an animal on

the planet that we haven't re-engineered -- redesigned --

Cows are herbivores -- they don't have the ability to digest other animals --

they shoved the plastic from "six packs" down their throats to give them something

to help break up the animals they were feeding them.

If you see nothing wrong with fecal matter thrown on our foods, then it's all "manure."

"Toxic sludge is good for you ... doo ah, doo ah" --

[boppers]

64. How have we re-engineered giant squid? Sharks?

Your assertion:
there isn't an animal on the planet that we haven't re-engineered

Seems a bit odd, did you mean something else?

[defendandprotect]

70. You don't think we've changed the environment of the oceans?

Wow -- !!

[boppers]

72. "re-engineered" was the word you used.

Is there a genetic difference in sharks?

[defendandprotect]

76. Genetic differences and behavior can be caused by changed environments...

do you want to pursue obtuseness -- or do you want to try

to understand what capitalism has done to nature and humanity?

[boppers]

57. So, if a plant is fertilized by a decaying earthworm, is it a cannibal?

You seem to have very odd views on what fecal matter, and cannibalism, is.

[defendandprotect]

60. That's what YOU are saying, what I'm saying is in my posts ...

an it doesn't look like you've read them.

[boppers]

61. You have tried to say that fecal matter is not fecal matter....

...and that cross-species consumption is cannibalism.

Neither definition is to be found in the dictionary, though.

[defendandprotect]

68. Again, that's what YOU are saying ...

We've known for hundreds of years that feeding animals to other animals creates

illness in the animal and in those who eat them -- 400/500 years of this knowledge

in the last go around with animal cannibalism.

Four decades or so ago, American cattle raisers decided again it was a good idea and

have been feeding dead animals to other animals, including feeding them road kill and

manure!

That's Mad Cow --

evidently so far from the consciousness of those eating animals that it's pretty much

been "disappeared" by the porpaganda of the animal-eating industry.

[boppers]

74. Re: Fecal matter: Post # 40.

"The discussion is about FECAL MATTER contamining foods -- "

Which would be almost all foods, unless it's grown in a sterile laboratory, away from all other living creatures. The inverse, of course, is organic food, which relies heavily on fecal matter for nutrients.

"feeding animals to other animals creates illness in the animal and in those who eat them "

Nope. Humans have consumed carnivores and omnivores for millions of years without prion disease striking people down with any great frequency.

You're confusing animals eating animals (in general) with animals passing very rare diseases around the food chain. Those are different things.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[marybourg]

49. That's completely ridiculous. Animal protein along with the

vitamins it provides is important, though not absolutely essential in the modern world. All things in moderation was, and still is, sensible and healthy.

[defendandprotect]

71. Nonsense ... you have no need for "animal" protein ... you have a need for protein which comes

from vegetation --

Think about where you learned what you are so confident about --

You learned it from capitalism taught in our public schools --

That's all.

Four decades or so ago -- American cattle ranches decided to return to an already

proven bad idea -- feeding dead animals to cows, chickens, pigs, sheep -- even feeding

them road kill!

And they re-taught the practice to European farmers = Mad Cow.

Mad Cow is the result of cannibalism in animals --

Cows actually live long enough to show the EFFECTS of the dsease on their bodies --

generally, chickens and pigs don't live long enough to show the EFFECTS, but that doesn't

mean they aren't diseased.

[timo]

50. seems to me

last time I looked, vegetable farming on a scale large enough to keep up with current population trends used alot of diesel,fertilizer,herbicide,insecticide, and irrigation water....so thats not exactly super eco friendly now is it??

[fasttense]

42. It's those birds.

They fly over the growing plants a poop on them. If we could only wipe out all those birds flying overhead. :sarcasm:

But really, one of the recommendations for small farmers was to keep birds away from fruits and vegetables because of possible fecal matter contamination from the birds. You know all that shipped-in produce from Con Agra doesn't have birds flying overhead.

[timo]

51. you'll think I am nuts

but my neighbor who is a commercial farm and is growing cabbage and mixed greens next door uses propane pop guns to keep the birds out of his fields for just this reason

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

75. This is why my family has not eaten ground beef for 10+ years. Many recalls,

many illnesses, some deaths... it's just not worth the risk....