Arizona Suspect’s Online Trail Offers Hints of Alienation

[RamboLiberal]

Source: NY Times

WASHINGTON — His MySpace page included a photograph of a United States history textbook, on top of which he had placed a handgun. He prepared a series of Internet videos in which he posted odd statements about the gold standard, the community college he attended and SWAT teams.

Jared Lee Loughner, in these few public hints, offered a sense of his alienation from society, confusion, anger as well as foreboding that his life could soon come to an end. Friends talked of how he had become reclusive in recent years, and his public postings raised questions, in retrospect at least, about his mental state.

-----

There was evidence of recent trouble, though. Mr. Loughner, 22, was suspended in late September from Pima Community College, where he had been attending classes, because the school became aware of a disturbing YouTube video. Mr. Loughner voluntarily withdrew from the College on Oct. 4.

-----

Another former high school classmate said that Mr. Loughner’s politics were left of center, and that he may have met Representative Giffords, who was shot in the head outside the Safeway supermarket, sometime before the attack.

“As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy,” the former classmate, Caitie Parker, wrote in a series of Twitter feeds Saturday. “I haven’t seen him since ’07 though. He became very reclusive.”



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09shooter.html?_r=1&hp

---

another image from the MySpace page in Loughner's name appears to show a Glock resting atop a U.S. history book


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1345450/Jared-Loughner-Bizarre-YouTube-ramblings-Arizona-Safeway-gun-massacre-suspect.html#ixzz1AVMgVwhq

[Lint Head]

1. Then why did he, as reported, show an admiration of Sara Palin

on his Facebook?

[RamboLiberal]

2. Well that is only 1 former classmate interviewed

And his politics could change or be very confused.

[roseBudd]

6. indeed, 2007 was before the recession & the upheaval of the worst post war recession...

& the unthinkable for some, the election of a black man

Besides thew Tea Party says they are Republicans, Democrats & Independents

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. Please. In Arizona?

Take it in perspective. It doesn't take much to be called a Liberal. For that matter, if the guy believed in legalized Pot, they would think he was liberal.

[FarLeftFist]

19. Everyone in '07 was considered "Left Wing" because EVERYONE hated Bush.

His ideologies DO NOT coincide with the Liberal or Progressive ideology. Especially the use of firearms and violence.

[No Elephants]

45. By '07, RW propagandists were claiming Dummya was a big government, big spending liberal, so hating

him was a RW thang.

[kestrel91316]

20. Exactly. "Left wing" in AZ = not a christofascist.

[tuckessee]

31. Legalizing pot is seen as a libertarian thing, not a liberal thing.

Name one person in this current Administration who openly favors legalization/decriminalization.

Just look at who the current liberal-appointed head of the DEA is and then tell me legalized pot is a liberal cause.

[No Elephants]

46. legalizing pot is both a left-leaning Libertarian thing (think Bill Maher) AND a liberal thing.

Right-leaning libertarians oppose legalizing pot, reprodutive choice, etc., just as do all other RWers, including RW Dems (aka Blue Dogs, DINOs, etc.)

"Liberal" is about ideas and principles, not formal political party lines. I am sure many Republicans favor legalizing pot, especially if they or a loved one have a medical need for it, much as many Republicans voted, under Dummya, for expanding stem cell research. And, you can have a liberal position on one or more issues while being RW in many other respects.


"Name one person in this current Administration who openly favors legalization/decriminalization."

With all due respect, this Administration is no litmus test of liberal positions. This Administration is oveall, at most, moderate. Its members curse and scold liberals publicly, inc. Obama ("to my friends on the left, I say....."). And they are pols, always courting right-leaning indies for the next election.

MAYBE some liberals may disagree about growing and selling pot, esp. to minors, for recreational purposes. However, I do not know a single liberal (who is not looking for elective office) who opposes legalization of possessing pot for personal use or growing, selling and using it for medicinal purposes. If I ran across one, I would consider him or her a liberal who did not hold a liberal position on pot.

(Like Bubba, I smoked pot one night in my life, though I did inhale. i just never got high, though my fae and head hurt like anything the next day. So, this is not about my own use. )

[SemperEadem]

58. I'll bet you that's what this classmate meant to say

but is too dull to know the difference.

[No Elephants]

44. But this clown said "left wing," not "liberal." I say Parker is a RW liar.

Being left of center myself, i might say, "AFAIK, he was a Democrat," or "his politics seemed left of center" {or liberal]. I would never say "his politics were left wing."

[No Elephants]

43. Or, the former classmate is a transparent fucking RW liar..

[Little Star]

69. Bingo!

[X_Digger]

5. One thing to consider..

I've 'liked' a few sites that I despise, just so that I see when they make a new post, so that I can go *ahem* micturate on them.

[Mark Maker]

8. He didn't have a Facebook, a bunch of fake ones have been

created. He had a MySpace.

[hlthe2b]

11. I don't know how you know this, since it was reported that LE

asked that his facebook page be removed relatively early this afternoon. It may well be that there are fake ones up now, but LE has his original facebook posts-- at least if you can believe local news coverage throughout today.

[LisaL]

22. No proof of that whasoever.

[No Elephants]

50. Please see Reply 11.

[quakerboy]

23. I would not be shocked to find out

That the "classmate" reporting him to be a "left of center" is a teabagger herself, or otherwise RW connected, putting out the line she thinks will make her and hers look best.

That or she is just your typical low info RW'r who conflates anything they do not understand(such as mentally ill rambling) and "left".

[No Elephants]

47. Agree. But my guess would be he or she is not befuddled, just protecting the right.

Is FOX befuddled when it puts a (D) after the name of a Rethug who's been caught doing something of which a typical FOX viewer probably would noo approve?

Btw, her words were "left wing,' not "left of center." "Left of center" was how the author of the article re-phrased her words. Please see Reply 44.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lynne]

33. He didn't have Facebook, just myspace and youtube -

- myspace has been removed but copies secured from cache are online. His youtube account is still there but others have begun to copy his videos and put them up, making it difficult to find his personal channel. Both his myspace and youtube are ramblings that make little sense. It's obvious that he's very disturbed. However, neither of them mentioned any one political party or person, including Palin.

[No Elephants]

49. Please see Reply 11.

[emilyg]

36. No proof.

[SnakeEyes]

41. Haven't seen his Facebook.

Got a link?

[No Elephants]

51. Please see Reply 11.

[droidamus2]

60. First question I would ask is...

What are the politics of the classmate being quoted. If she is a teabagger far rightwinger type then the killer could be very right wing but to her he would seem 'very liberal'. I think the bigger point here is that maybe this guy had mental problems but with pundits and politicians using violent rhetoric and intimating that violence is a valid solution to your problems they can be pushing guys like this over the edge. I believe in free speech but with free speech comes at least some responsibility for what your 'free speech' may engender in others. I am not saying people shouldn't speak their minds, I know I do, but they should do it in a constructive not destructive way.

[Igel]

77. The first thing I would ask is, "What does the person actually mean?"

She used a label and meant something by it. There's no official definition of "left wing". There's a list of things, some of which many people assume are present, some of which may be present, but the details are usually left up for grabs. And since it's a free language used by a variety of groups of people, all of which get to assign their own variant meanings to words (because words are all about communicating meanings and emotions between people in a community) even that list is up for grabs.

So rather than assume that a string of sounds must bear a very narrow and specific meaning, that we get to define, once and for all times and all peoples what a word or expression means, I have to wonder what she meant by the use of that phrase.

People have stopped worrying about the killer and his views and started to worry about whether or not a label they use for themselves was properly used to label somebody else. That makes it not about the killer, not about the victims, not even about understanding what happened, but does make it about who people that call themselves "left wing" or "liberal" will tolerate sharing their preferred label with, and therefore about those calling themselves "left wing" or "liberal".

Six killed by Loughner, a dozen more wounded, and the really, really essential thing is all about us--whether we have to share a label with him or whether he gets labelled with the words associated with our political opponents, as though as soon as we "properly" label him "teabagger" or "right wing" it makes sense and we understand his essense simply because all of the millions of "teabaggers" and "rightwingers" go around killing half a dozen people at a time, or could for no other reason than the label used.

[mimitabby]

3. twilight zone strange

[Barack_America]

4. It has been noted that Ms. Parker is a conservative...

...and has not, to my knowledge, described any of Mr. Loughner's political views that she considers "liberal".

[Roland99]

7. Wonder if she'd engrave a backward letter in *her* face....

[mrcheerful]

9. That was what I thought myself and we know how conservatives label

anyone who doesn't share their exact views on any given subject is labeled Liberal. I once saw 2 conservatives decry each other as liberals for 20 posts because one of them had posted something positive about a local D congress critter and the other took offense that the person had dared to do that.

[No Elephants]

48. Bingo. She is FOX news, falsely putting a (D) after the name of a wrongdoer.

[riverwalker]

10. catie parker is fishy

something just too convenient about her "story". Her portrait of shooter sounds too stereotypical of how a conservative pigeonholes the "left" ("left wing quite liberal, Hendrix and The Doors pot smoker" wtf?) I smell spin, a desperate spin.
Be VERY wary of this "Caitie Parker". The stench of Rove is strong, it is.

[paparush]

13. I read her Tweets earlier today and thought the same thing..

Either an attention whore or a RW plant to spread the meme that the shooter was a liberal.

[FarLeftFist]

26. And she notes how she has been contacted by numerous media outlets.

We know who came knocking first...

[RamboLiberal]

12. Oh now the Goths are going to get blamed

One of those was Tyler Ramsier, 24, who said he graduated from Mountain View High School a year ahead of Loughner. Ramsier said he did not know Loughner well, but said he remembered him hanging out at school with a crowd who wore Goth-style clothes and spent time "hating on" other students.

"He never did anything that stood out that would make us think he would do something like this," said Ramsier, who drove by Loughner's neighborhood trying to see his house and make some sense of the events.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/08/AR2011010803961.html?hpid=topnews

On page 2 near bottom.

[Tunkamerica]

18. All those goth kids love hendrix and the doors

[Earth_First]

14. American History textbooks, fire arms, immigration, 2012 prophecy, = "left of center"?!

Sounds like neoconservative, tea bag wingnut by my account, but thanks NYT...

[RamboLiberal]

34. Note the gun is sitting on a pic of White House & U.S. Presidents

[No Elephants]

53. Not to mention, he SHOT a DEMOCRATIC Rep., not a RWer. Even a liberal who has had a breakdown is

smarter than that.

This is a FOX News (D), Eric Cantor claiming "his' office got shot "at," and the moran with the backwards initials carved into her cheek claiming Dems mugged her, with a soupcon of O'Keefe.

IOW, typical RW bullshit. (It's okay if they lie and break laws, 'cause they are on God's side, doncha know.)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

63. Can't believe it took 53 posts.

Logic, people.

[JDPriestly]

71. The 2012 conspiracy thing doesn't fit a left or Democratic profile at all.

I have, for example, never read a post on DU by any credible DUer that advocated the 2012 conspiracy thing -- end of the world belief. It is typically right-wing Evangelical, second-coming talk.

This young man is around the age when certain mental illnesses manifest themselves. I wonder whether his family was able to get him the mental health care he needed. Hopefully with the new Health Care Reform, people like him will be able to afford help.

The fact that this young man may have been mentally disturbed does not lessen the condemnation that right-wing spokespeople deserve for exciting their base with violent imagery and rhetoric.

Do you think that people like Palin and Limbaugh are actually rather violent but rather than act out their violence themselves, impassion others to act out their violence?

[high density]

15. It's so nice that journalism has come to quoting facebook and twitter feeds

We report, you decide.

[Earth_First]

17. +1

What a fu*king joke.

[No Elephants]

54. How is that different from publishing something the shooter typed on a piece of paper?

Or some "manifesto" he mailed?

In all instances, the only issue is, was the shooter really the author?

[high density]

76. The shooter wasn't the author of the Facebook and Twitter posts quoted in this article.

The quotes are from other people talking about him, and we have no clue if they even knew the shooter.

[RamboLiberal]

21. A bit more

Another neighbor Ryan Miller, 19, said he also attended Mountain View High School and knew Loughner slightly.

“He just seemed like a normal, everyday kid to me. I’m extremely shocked.”

Asked what kind of group the suspect hung out with, he said “I would see him more as a jock, hanging out with the sporty kids.”

Tyler Ramsier, 24 graduated from Mountain View High School one year before Loughner. He described Loughner as someone who kept to himself and hung out with a small group of friends. He said Loughner sometimes wore a trench coat and often dressed in dark clothes like those worn by people into “goth” culture.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/mark-evans/archives/389

Stuff like this was reported at Columbine most of which was untrue.

[SemperEadem]

59. from what I remember from high school,

jocks and goths didn't hang out with one another.

so which one was he?

[Chipper Chat]

67. Exactly.

No way a group of jocks would let anybody with hair like that come within 50 feet of them.

[RamboLiberal]

25. Tucson TV KGUN

Pima Community College issued a statement about Loughner Saturday at 7:35 p.m. The statement described Loughner as a former student who withdrew from the college in October after being suspected for code of conduct violations.

"From February to September 2010, Loughner had five contacts with PCC police for classroom and library disruptions at Northwest and West campuses," the statement read. "On September 29, 2010, college police discovered on YouTube a Loughner-filmed video made at Northwest Campus. In the video, he claims that the College is illegal according to the U.S. Constitution, and makes other claims."

The college said it told Loughner that if he wanted to come back to school, he must "must resolve his Code of Conduct violations and obtain a mental health clearance indicating, in the opinion of a mental health professional, his presence at the College does not present a danger to himself or others."

The college said it had no further contact with him after that.

http://www.kgun9.com/global/story.asp?s=13809065

[OhioChick]

27. I don't buy this "he was a liberal 4 years ago" BS

Especially coming from only one or two people.

On a side note, I assume it wouldn't take much to be called a liberal in Arizona.

[RamboLiberal]

28. As someone pointed out in another DU post

They may be confusing liberal with libertarian.

[OhioChick]

29. Good point....

However, I'll bet that "liberal" will stick with this story.

[Arrowhead2k1]

42. Yup, and Libertarians can sometimes even seem like Liberals at first glance .

They are anti-establishment, and smoke pot, and don't believe in wars for oil. But dig down deep enough and you also find a gun toting, intolerant, violently bigotted right-wing libertarian nut job. That's what this Arizona kid smells more and more like to me.

[No Elephants]

55. Meh. I believe she is "confusing" liberal with a fellow RWer of hers who just shot folks, ala FOX.

Classic RW dirty trick.

Please see also Reply 53.

[rayofreason]

30. Maybe...

...he was just a wacko so it would be rather difficult to pigeon-hole his politics. And maybe his atrocity had no political motivation at all, or at least no motivation that a sane person could honestly label as political.

The really interesting question is "Who is the other person of interest?" Police are looking for a suspected accomplice. If this is correct, it could be that someone with a "sane" motive used a deluded wacko as a tool. A right wing nut who wanted to kill her for her left-wing politics. Or a left-wing nut would wanted to kill her for her right-wing (blue dog) politics. Or a cartelista who blamed her as a representative of the government that made a big drug bust that caused him grief. These are all "rational" reasons within a twisted, but not psychotic, world view. In a world where a vulture can be arrested as Israeli spy because it is tagged with a wildlife-tracking GPS system the Saudis may be twisted and irrational by our standards, but still not psychotic. The boy who did the shooting does appear to be psychotic (detached from any semblance to reality) from what has been published, but if he had a handler the underlying motivation may be grounded in something else.

However, at this point there is no evidence in favor of any conspiracy or sane political motivation on the part of Loughner. And remember that just over 30 years ago John Lennon was murdered by an insane person. I remember the shock of that clearly, wondering "Why would anyone do that?" My question today as well.

[JDPriestly]

73. What left-wing nut wants to kill anyone for their blue dog politics?

I have never heard of such a thing. It just doesn't happen.

Why?

Because by definition, the so-called "left" embraces the non-violent philosophies of its heroes and philosophical leaders -- Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Jr. and, although not a religious movement and some may not believe it, Jesus, whose violence was pretty much limited to throwing the moneylenders out of the temple. The philosophies and lives of those men are the inspiration for liberals in the US.

Other than the Founding Fathers of the US, our heroes are all leaders of nonviolent movements.

[Igel]

78. I knew a lot of undergrads who liked the SDS when I was in grad school.

They tried to underplay the old SDS' violence but when it was brought up they said it was justified.

They also rather liked some anti-union-busting tactics, as well, because the violence was, as they considered it, just. Some had leanings to ELF and PETA, neither of which were entirely pacifist, and would probably like the Sea Shepherd's activities, not what you'd typically call "nonviolent."

Some liked that arch-conservative Republican Malcolm X. Others like the PLO, which is a group that typically gets more liberal than conservative support.

And so it goes.

[JDPriestly]

74. The actual shooter is usually psychotic. The instigators are usually

right-wing politicians who use inflammatory rhetoric aimed to excite the most primitive parts of the brains of their supporters.

Hence, the relatively high frequency of violence against the left on the part of "psychos" on the right.

We see this over and over. Fox News and others on the right continues to foster domestic terrorism for fun, profit and power.

I must add that not all right-wing spokespersons use inflammatory language or incite terrorism.

[bergie321]

32. He might have been a liberal in 2007

In 2007 the loudest voices belonged to the anti-Bush crowd.
Now, the loudest voices belong to the anti-government, anti-Obama, anti-Democratic, anti-health care crowd.

Someone with a mental illness is likely to be swayed by the loudest voices.

So he was a liberal in 2007.
He is a right wing, mass-murderer, and attempted assassin in 2011.

He got into smoking pot on the left wing rhetoric.
He got into shooting 18 people and killing 6 on the right wing rhetoric.

But the Corporate Media will likely spin it as "both sides need to tone down the rhetoric".

[sweetloukillbot]

35. One of my closest friends was a pacifist and anarchist in 2007...

Now he's a hardcore gun-toting Paultard - pretty much the only beliefs he still has in common revolve around smoking pot and decrying the government. And judging by some of Loughner's comments on money and correct grammar, I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't as well. For some reason it is easy to go from the far left to the far right.

[droidamus2]

61. From what I have observed over the years

People like your friend tend to be 'extreme' by that I mean when the believe in something they go all the way. This same phenomenon happened with some of the left wing radicals of the 1960's who later became extremely right wing. So the idea that somebody that 'is extreme' goes from being very liberal to being very conservative isn't to hard for me to understand.

[No Elephants]

56. IMO, Parker is lying, pure and simple.

[Rex]

37. I'm sure it takes no time for one to listen to Glenn Beck and be brainwashed.

It will turn out he is a Tea party lover...why would a liberal kill a democratic representative? Also, anti-govt always falls into these Rwing militia groups that want to blow up everything they hate.

[Devil_Fish]

38. In this fucked up political system, even left of center is still right. NT

[RamboLiberal]

39. A couple of postings I hadn't seen yet

"WOW! I'm glad i didn't kill myself. I'll see you on National T.v.! This is foreshadow .... why doesn't anyone talk to me?.." he posted on MySpace Dec. 14.

On Dec. 13, he wrote: "I don't feel good: I'm ready to kill a police officer! I can say it."

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_91db5db4-1b74-11e0-ba23-001cc4c002e0.html

He said the gunman was a subject of, “some police interest in the recent past,” and he has made death threats in the past, but not toward Giffords.

http://azstarnet.com/article_0e6ad2ce-1b8e-11e0-ab28-001cc4c002e0.html

[Frank Booth]

40. It sounds like the guy is now too crazy to have any coherent political beliefs,

even by tea party standards.

He has obviously been influenced by Rand Paul and Glenn Beck's diatribes about the gold standard, but other than that (or, maybe, including that) it's just a maze of incoherence.

[old mark]

52. CNN early this morning (Sunday) stated the shooter has "obvious" mental problems,

and is a "typical, garden variety mass murderer" rather than a political assassin.

Translation: he is an easily suggestible, unstable person who has absorbed RightWing rhetoric and taken it as his own. No matter WHAT his politics were in 2007, I believe they will find a lot of RW stuff in his home. He had been becoming more and more unstable in the last year or so, wasx thrown out of community college for several disruptive episodes in classes and in the library-police were called in at least 5 of those episodes.

A lot of serious mental illness manifests itself around his age, and I think he may have been sucked in by the RWers on TV, etc...


mark

[droidamus2]

62. In the end

I don't think his 'politics' even really matters. The idea that an unstable person could be effected by or manipulated by the rhetoric of people in positions of power or influence is something that really needs to be discussed. These people that use violent metaphors and intimate that violence could be a solution should be held responsible when that vitriol leads to something like this. Yes, I acknowledge that making a direct connection between something Beck or Rush or Palin has said may be impossible but it is the environment their comments create that is of concern.

[old mark]

66. Sure-they make these people feel comfortable with their thoughts,

and lend approval to other people's craziness till it becomes action.

Then they disclaim any responsibility, but I am sure they know...


mark

[No Elephants]

57. Why are we struggling to figure out why RWer Parker sincerely thinks he is a liberal? More likely,

she's simply lying, standard RW operating procedure. Please see Reply 53.

[Jennicut]

64. He seemed to have been a loner that no one really knew that well.

We really don't know. Maybe his family members knew more then his classmates did.

[muriel_volestrangler]

65. Comparing getting an abortion to "a terrorist killing a baby" is no left or liberal viewpoint

Don Coorough, 58, who sat two desks in front of Mr. Loughner in a poetry class last semester, described him as a “troubled young man” and “emotionally underdeveloped.” After another student read a poem about getting an abortion, Mr. Loughner compared the young woman to a “terrorist for killing the baby.”

Whatever he may have been pre-adult, that is a defining right wing position he held in the past few months.

[mistertrickster]

68. Three observations: the pistol is over the picture of the WHITE HOUSE.

Duh.

Also, he called a woman in his class a "terrorist" for apparently having an abortion.

That's right-wing, not left-wing.

Lastly, if he were a leftist, why did he shoot a Democratic Congressperson instead of a radical CON?

The target shows his political motivations, if any.

[fascisthunter]

70. he was a rightie

no amount of spin will change that.... fuckers

[Charlie Brown]

72. sorry if this is an absurd question, but what is "the 2012 prophecy?"nt

[Viva_La_Revolution]

75. The Mayan long-count calendar ends in Dec of 2012...

Conspiracy types like to believe this means something apocalyptic is going to happen then.

I myself have been changing over to a new calendar every year for my whole life, and so far, nothing has happened. :)

edit: spelling