Ariz. Shooter Loughner Not Linked to Hate Groups

[RamboLiberal]

Source: CBS News

The FBI continues to comb through computer files, notebooks, and phone records to learn more about Arizona shooting suspect Jared Loughner, but so far investigators have found no evidence that Loughner was connected to any hate groups or other fringe organizations, CBS News correspondent Bob Orr reports.

Sources tell Orr that Loughner was angry with the government and targeted Congresswoman Giffords because she "represented the government" in his eyes, but that his anger was anti-government in general and did not appear to have an ideological bent - right or left.

-----

Mistrust of government was Loughner's defining conviction, the friends said. He believed the U.S. government was behind the Sept. 11 attacks, and worried that governments were maneuvering to create a unified monetary system ("a New World Order currency" one friend said) so that social elites and bureaucrats could control the rest of the world.

-----

Officials say Loughner did not stalk Giffords and did not have her under any kind of 24/7 surveillance, but maintained a sort of "loose obsession" with her activities. Investigators believe he became more interested in Giffords after her recent re-election.

There is no indication that anyone knew of Loughner's plans for Saturday's shootings, sources tell Orr. The FBI has interviewed a former Loughner roommate who said that sometime between Christmas and New Year's, Loughner showed him the gun that he had purchased. That made the ex-roommate uncomfortable but Loughner made no threats and the meeting was not reported to anyone else.



Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/10/national/main7231491.shtml?tag=stack

[slackmaster]

1. Evidence of a bizarre personal grudge against Giffords

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1

[Ozymanithrax]

2. Removed

[Indydem]

4. Except it's fake.

And you are perpetuating a lie.

[Ozymanithrax]

5. Then I stand corrected. Thank you.

[onehandle]

3. The cult of Palin is a hate group. nt

[Ian David]

6. Right. Hating immigrants, abortion, and government isn't either left or right.

:sarcasm:

[Fuzz]

7. Yup, so hard to pin it down isn't it. Wish there was a sign or something.

/sigh

[emulatorloo]

9. Yes, and obsession with the gold standard and the English language and why

people wont speak it in Arizona cuts across all ideologies.

>sarcasm too>

[Igel]

22. First understand.

I'm not sure I do. But he said a majority of people in District 8 don't use proper "English grammar" and so they're not "literate."

District 7 is where they gerrymandered the Latinos. District 8 is overwhelmingly non-Latino. In fact, it is a mix of liberal and conservative, but typically white. In other words, those who "won't" speak English were mostly white English-speakers. Note he was obsessed over a kind of fuzzy semantics and the relationship between words and discourse reality vs physical reality and had a peculiar "discourse" style of his own that presumably constituted "true English grammar." While I don't understand all of this, by any means (and rather consider this a good thing), it's obvious that it doesn't fit certain theories. For example, that his concern with English was entirely a case of immigrant bashing.

He was apparently anti-immigrant. I'm not sure if that was just anti-illegal immigrant or not (anti-illegal-immigrant *does* cut across political boundaries, it's just that some don't want to admit it or want to unilaterally define "left" as excluding all the people they personally don't want to be seen agreeing with--a kind of 'I'm in charge of the language' that, ironically, Loughner also displayed).

Moreover, he wanted a return to the gold standard. But he also fantasized about producing his own, very much *not* gold standard currency. Working out details of coin and currency design was apparently a greater focus than the gold standard. I've known far more gold-standard buffs on the right than on the left, but also a few that weren't really either. I've never known any that designed the currency they'd implement.

His "Trutherism" has no real political spin. And since he developed much of his anti-government fervor in 2007 and 2008 when there was talk of concentration camps and black helicopters and con-trails and having elections cancelled and a take-over of the US and the need to "take our country back", I'm not sure that every anti-government view must be conservative. Most of those were either left or far-fringe righties (where the "far-fringe righties" can't really be called conservative any more than Stalin or Pol Pot could have been called "progressive").


Tea Partiers have a few main concerns. Their own views are that they're anti-deficit, pro some entitlements and anti-others, and are anti-"Obamacare"; the only common agenda they have seems to be fiscal. I'm not sure that the "gold standard" per se is part of their collective or even majority agenda. Their opponents' views are that they hate Obama because he's black and are generally social reactionaries, probably conveniently confusing correlation with causality. I've seen little to say that Loughner likes Palin or the Tea Partiers' agenda--either as they imagine it or as their opponents re-imagine it. Individual issues may be more right than left, but that assumes all issues must be part of a single, one-dimensional starkly left-right dichotomy and there can be nothing else.

(Now, I think a group that the left keeps trying to clump in with the Tea Partiers, LaRouche's 'party', wants a return to the "gold reserve system" but not the gold standard--something that a lot of people easily confuse--but they were protesting the health-care legislation and holding up pictures of Obama with a Hitler mustache because they were against anything that wasn't single-payer. LaRouche isn't left or right, he's nutty, and both left and right firmly place him in the *other* guy's 'camp'. Libertarianism, like other forms of anarchism, also tend to be "off the scale" and not fit the dichotomy.)

[ElsewheresDaughter]

8. Tea Party, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Fox News, Sarah Palin

[Recursion]

12. Well, he was a "truther", and you don't find many of those

in Palin's crowd.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

13. oh reaslly...well how about Ron Paul's son...they are Truthers

[Recursion]

15. Name a conspiracy theory the Pauls don't believe (nt)

[GeorgeGist]

10. Walter would be appalled.

and that's the way it is, Jan 10,2011.

[kath]

11. Oh, yes, people on the left are ALWAYS spewing anti-government diatribes these days, don'cha know?

RIGHT.

Jeebus, the M$M is sooooo in the tank for the GOP...

[Igel]

23. That's simplistic.

The left never "spews" anti-government diatribes. Not even in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004...2008. No black-helicopter, 9/11 LIHOP or even MIHOP, contrail, grand Rovian conspiracy folk ever on the left, no concentration camps or North American trade zone with a major highway running up the middle of the country; no fascist/corporate plot to seize control of the government and declare martial law or a national emergency. Nope. Not a one.

Such views are and always have been inimicable to anybody who would even dare apply the term "progressive" or "liberal" to him/herself.

And no true Scotsman would ever even utter the word "quiche" or wear underwear.

More importantly, there's the assumption that "not left" = "right" and "not right" = "left." I'm never sure where to put libertarians, anarchists, nihilists, and even LaRouchites simply because they don't "fit" the templates. And when you go abroad you find that sometimes not only are left and right switched, but put through a blender and sorted out differently: Look at the problem with the Pakistani "lawyers," firmly "liberal" a couple of years ago in opposing Musharraf yet far too often firmly "conservative" in supporting the hudood laws.

[U4ikLefty]

26. I can't believe you are drawing an equivalency here.

You seem to be trying too hard to put distance between the right & this shooter.

Even when most of his views were 99% right-wing.

[DJ13]

14. The MSM can scrub the truth as much as they want, it just shows they're desperate

[whoneedstickets]

16. Moonbat, Tinfoil Hat club..

Well represented in the Freep crowd, a few local champions here too.

[itsrobert]

17. So he is not linked to Palin and the Tea Party?

I am not so sure on that yet.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

19. Well, you'd think that in all his posts to Facebook...

...and the message boards he was on, he'd make one comment praising any of them.......I haven't seen one yet.

[crim son]

20. You found his FB page?

Where? I've only seen the youtube one.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

21. I thought that was where the "teachers, pigs and persons in power" rant came from

Maybe I'm wrong.

[crim son]

24. Could be. I heard he had a myspace page that has been

taken down, too.

[defendandprotect]

18. Official story ... a lone nut, not linked to the right .....

:eyes:

[Name removed]

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