New Shooting Details: Loughner's Angry Note

[RamboLiberal]

Source: CBS News

The 22-year-old man accused of trying to assassinate Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in a deadly shooting rampage wrote "Die, bitch" in a note found at his home, a sheriff's official told The Associated Press on Tuesday.

Investigators believe the handwritten message was a reference to Giffords, Pima County Chief Rick Kastigar said. The note was found in a safe alongside other ones, including "I planned ahead," "My assassination" and the name "Giffords."

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On Saturday morning, Jared Loughner's father saw him take a black bag out of a car trunk, Sheriff Clarence Dupnik told the AP.

The father approached Loughner, and he mumbled something and took off running, Dupnik said. The father got in his truck and chased his son as he fled on foot.

-----

The source also told Milton that investigators are looking into whether Loughner may have conducted surveillance on Giffords’ district office and campaign rallies.



Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/11/national/main7236979.shtml

[napi21]

1. I'd like to know where the difference is between a very angr & hatful man & an insane one.

The more I hear about notes, premeditation, and his preparation to kill Gabby, the mre I'm convinced that this man is not insane. I'm sure not any professional to be able to determine this, but IMO someone who is insane does things without thinking about them, but for the kicks at the time or some other irrational reason. If notes stating his intentions were found in a safe showing that he wanted to hide them, and he purchased the gun a month before he acted, i don't think he should be able to claim an insanity defense. He may well be crazy, but not insane!

[eyeofdelphi]

3. Maybe

But just because he premeditated doesn't mean he's not mentally ill. My best friend is schizophrenic and he can function without medication, but it always ends badly. It's hard to explain, he'll get thoughts into his head that are completely ridiculous and preposterous, but he really really believes them. there is no reasoning or using logic. schizophrenics just need meds to help them stay grounded in reality.
wasn't there a serial killer that heard voices? a dog talked to him or something? it took awhile to catch him, but he was pretty nuts.
i guess it's hard to draw the line on when he knew right from wrong. it almost seems like he wanted to be caught and known or shot down in a hail of bullets. this one is hard to figure out.

[awoke_in_2003]

7. "a dog talked to him or something? it took awhile to catch him"...

talking dogs are sneaky that way :)

[whathehell]

14. David Berkowitz.."Son of Sam"...

[thecrow]

15. Crazy is crazy

There is no decipering or sense to be made of it.
Everyone tries to find the "reason" of it, but it can't be done.
It's beyond logic or reason.
That's why it's CRAZY.

[whathehell]

23. I was just identifying the crazy "talking dog" dude.

[eyeofdelphi]

38. and thank you for that

makes me look less crazy. see, i knew i remembered that right. they even made a movie about him in the late 90's or early 2000's, which is the only reason i remembered the thing about the dog at all.

[whathehell]

45. You're welcome....

Yes..It took awhile to find him and he before they did, he kept up a kind of taunting "correspondence" with Jimmy Breslin, a New York reporter...It was a big thing..People in New York were terrified.

[notadmblnd]

28. I believe you're refering to the Son of Sam murders

Yeah, David Berkowitz claimed a dog talked to him. I read a book years ago called The "Ultimate Evil" it was about the Son of Sam murders. Can't remember who wrote it, but his theory was that it was all a conspiracy involving Satanic rituals and ritual killings across the country. IIRC, it also went into government mind control programs and the whole sex abuse daycare thing that was happening years ago. I want to say Maury Terry was the writer and I think he's pretty much considered a nut.

[chrisa]

I think that was "Son of Sam," or something like that.

[Common Sense Party]

9. John Hinckley, Jr. wrote notes and poems and slipped them under

Jodie Foster's door. His whole plot was premeditated assassination. He even wanted to assassinate Carter first, but was unsuccessful, and switched to reagan after he became prez. Tons of preparation. Lots of obsession.

Hinckley was insane, there's no two ways about it.

This kid is nuts, too.

[notadmblnd]

29. John Hinkley. His parents were/are friends of the Bushes.

Was a rumor a few years ago that one of the Bush boys was having dinner or was supposed to be having dinner with the Hinkleys the day of Reagun's assassination attempt

[Common Sense Party]

32. John Hinckley, Jr.

It was lunacy, not ideology.

[notadmblnd]

33. I wasn't making a judgment. Just tossing out some trivia

[Common Sense Party]

34. My apologies--I thought you were correcting the spelling of his name.

I was spelling it correctly, I believe.

And the trivia is very interesting.

[notadmblnd]

37. not a problem. I'm sure you were spelling it correctly and that my spelling is incorrect

I spelled Reagan wrong too.

[Downwinder]

44. It was in the Houston paper that Hinkley's brother was invited to

Neil Bush's for dinner that night.

[No Elephants]

11. In a federal criminal case like this, the difference is probably the death penalty vs. life in an

institution for the criminally insane.

[onenote]

26. not necessarily - could be life in prison

The choice isn't merely between finding someone not guilty by reason of insanity (and committing them to an institution) or finding them guilty and imposng the death penalty. Even if one's mental illness falls short of the standard for exculpating them from guilt, it can be (and sometimes must be) considered as a possible mitigating factor in sentencing.

[Kievan Rus]

36. This guy (Loughner) is quite disturbed; a better example of somebody that was just very angry...

would be Timothy McVeigh.

[dkf]

2. Was that the entire note to Giffords?

[napi21]

4. No. There were several others. One said I planned it. Another

named Gifford specifically. I don't know if there were others as well.

[dkf]

5. They must have been on post it's or something.

You'd think that you'd have more to say to the person you wanted to kill than two words.

[awoke_in_2003]

8. probably also isn't a good idea...

to release all details of evidence.

[bushisanidiot]

22. Yep. The FBI should definitely not be releasing details of his notes to the public.

keep the evidence for court.

[RamboLiberal]

10. That one was written on an envelope

[awoke_in_2003]

6. sounds like he is fit enough to stand trial...

good.

[Turborama]

12. APNewsBreak: More warning signs on day of shooting

Source: AP

By AMANDA LEE MYERS and JUSTIN PRITCHARD, Associated Press – 28 mins ago

TUCSON, Ariz. – Investigators revealed more disturbing details about the events leading up to the assassination attempt against U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, including a menacing handwritten note in the suspect's home with the words "Die, bitch."

And on the day of the shooting, a mumbling Jared Loughner ran into the desert near his home after his father asked him why he was removing a black bag from the trunk of a family car, sheriff's officials said. Loughner resurfaced later Saturday when authorities say he showed up at a grocery store in a taxi and shot 19 people, killing six, including a federal judge and a 9-year-old girl.

Investigators provided the new details to The Associated Press and said they're still searching for the bag. They suspect it could contain clues into Loughner's motives.

"The bag is very important to us," said Capt. Chris Nanos, head of the Pima County Sheriff's Department's criminal investigations division. "What was in that bag and is there any relevance?"

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110112/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot

[bluerum]

13. Hmmm. The case of the missing black bag.

[Hissyspit]

16. Dad Pursued Ariz. Massacre Suspect Before Shooting ("My Assasssination")

Source: Associated Press

Dad pursued Ariz. massacre suspect before shooting

AMANDA LEE MYERS
From Associated Press
January 12, 2011 6:47 AM EST
TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) — Mysterious black bag in hand, Jared Loughner ran into the desert, his angry father stopping pursuit in his truck.

Hours after Randy Loughner's futile confrontation with his 22-year-old son Saturday morning, six people were shot dead and more than a dozen others wounded — and Jared Loughner was in custody.

- snip -

Investigators with the Pima County Sheriff's Department previously said they found handwritten notes in Loughner's safe reading "I planned ahead," ''My assassination" and "Giffords." Capt. Chris Nanos said all the writings were either in an envelope or on a form letter Giffords' office sent him in 2007 after he signed in at one of her "Congress on Your Corner" events — the same kind of gathering where the massacre occurred.

On the morning of the shooting, a mumbling Jared Loughner fled after his father asked him why he was removing a black bag from the trunk of a family car, said Nanos and Rick Kastigar, chief of the department's investigations bureau. Investigators are still searching for the bag.

- snip -

A year ago, he volunteered walking dogs at the county animal shelter, said Kim Janes, manager of the Pima Animal Care Center. He liked dogs; neighbors remember him as the kid they would see walking his own. But at the shelter, staff became concerned: He was allowing dogs to play in an area that was being disinfected after one had contracted a potentially deadly disease, the parvovirus. "He didn't think the disease was that threatening and when we tried to explain how dangerous some of the diseases are, he didn't get it," Janes said.

Read more: http://enews.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20110112/6d09f27e-0cf8-49d6-9be9-11236d74a215

[leveymg]

17. Black bag not so "mysterious." Why would the father confront him about moving it from the family

car if the father didn't know (or strongly) suspect that it contained a gun?

[cbdo2007]

20. Even if the dad knew it contained a gun, there's nothing to suggest he knew

the kid would use it.

[leveymg]

21. Then, why would he be upset and "pursue" the kid after he took the bag out of the family car?

Your argument ignores common-sense.

How come we've heard nothing about the father's politics?

[cbdo2007]

25. Your argument assumes everyone has YOUR common sense.

Obviously the kid was acting strangely. The dad knew he was acting strangely and took the gun out of the car. The dad asked him about it and the kid ran off. The dad pursued for a few minutes and couldn't find him.

What's he supposed to do, call the cops cause his strangely acting son took a gun out of the trunk and ran off?? Still, no one could have suspected what would happen next. If anything, the cops would probably have thought the son would be more likely to use the gun against his parents rather than the congresswoman, and they would have blown it off.

The parents were probably confused and didn't know what to do or what woudl happen next for the son. CONFUSION is common sense in a confusing, strange situation.

[leveymg]

27. If I had a mentally deranged kid, I would not allow a gun anywhere he could get it. Period.

If the parents knew about the gun, they were extraordinarily negligent to keep a gun or allow him to have one.

Nothing personal about the "common sense" remark. My apologies. :hi:

[eyeofdelphi]

39. maybe the kid was acting suspicious

as a parent, you can just tell when your kid is up to something. maybe the dad had ideas about what was in the bag (i.e. guns or drugs) but had no real proof and didn't want to call the cops on his own son. no one ever wants to believe their own child is capable of something like this. and if the kid had been acting sort of wacky, i would suspect drugs first. but who knows. i'm sure the dad regrets not pursuing his suspicions further.
i can't help but feel bad for the parents. even if they were limbaugh listening palin lovin gun toting nutballs. which we don't know. but if they held those beliefs, they still didn't go gun down 20 people. but their son did, of his own accord. and now they've lost their son in a way too.

[progressivebydesign]

42. I honestly think that more will come out about this...

the Sheriff, who has been so vilified, alluded today about the family being a "dysfunctional situation." I think we will hear more about all of this... and perhaps he was not as insane as people may believe.

[janedum]

18. IF he was mentally ill, why didn't his parents get him help? BS!!

[molly77]

19. Family therapy is important in cases like these

I lived very close to a family with a schizophrenic son. The father bought him a gun. The son later killed the mother with that gun.And tried to kill the entire family.

[slackmaster]

24. That's not much of a Manifesto

It appears that Loughner isn't very enthusiastic about writing. People who are hoping for a lengthy right-wing or left-wing polemic are bound to be disappointed.

[skip fox]

30. He was, really, crazy, but that doesn't mean RW hate speech didn't aggravate

his condition, or direct it, or encourage it.

But its role, if any, will come out in the trial. His lawyer will use the insanity defense and in doing so will spell out his illness and any additional factors directing or motivating his actions.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

31. Was also stopped by a policeman that morning for running a red light ....

but not ticketed -- given a warning --

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110112/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot

[dogfacedboy]

40. If only there were the scent of weed or alcohol at this traffic stop

the car may have been searched, and the weapon found.

[LisaL]

41. Supposedly he stopped using pot some time ago, or so said

one of his friends.

[progressivebydesign]

43. I'm extremely curious to see what the results of the money investigation reveal.

The authorities are trying to follow some leads as to how that unemployed slacker was able to purchase $1,000.00 worth of guns/ammo prior to the shooting. I think the entire story is going to be very complex, and perhaps surprising. The guy had a history of beating up jewish kids at school, long before all of this behavior happened.