Officers Stopped Suspect On Day of AZ Shooting

[jakeXT]

Source: Associated Press

TUCSON, ARIZONA --

The suspect in a deadly Arizona shooting ran a red light and was stopped by a wildlife officer less than three hours before the attack that wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

The Arizona Game and Fish Department says an officer stopped Jared Loughner at about 7:30 a.m. Saturday.

The officer took Loughner's driver's license and vehicle registration information.

Dispatchers checked the information and found no outstanding warrants on Loughner or his vehicle.

He was given a verbal warning and released.

Read more: http://www2.wspa.com/news/2011/jan/12/1/officers-stopped-suspect-day-az-shooting-ar-1333193/

---

Why did he need a cab driver to drive to the event later ?

[Statistical]

1. Interesting question.

Mabe he ran out of gas? Got lost? Maybe ditched the vehicle to be "safe" after the close call with "government agents"?
As delusion as he is who knows. I would be curious to hear the answer.

[bitchkitty]

2. His dad took the keys? n/t

[jakeXT]

4. Maybe

A sheriff's officer told the Associated Press that Saturday, Loughner's father saw his son take a black bag out of a car trunk. When his son took off running, his father chased him in a truck.
http://www.13wham.com/news/local/story/Tucson-Tragedy-Giffords-is-Breathing-on-Her-Own/oolPeoQXc0uMzyum3aHl6A.cspx



Mysterious black bag in hand, Jared Loughner ran into the desert, his angry father in futile pursuit of his truck.

On the morning of the shooting, a mumbling Jared Loughner fled after his father asked him why he was removing a black bag from the trunk of a family car, said Nanos and Rick Kastigar, chief of the department’s investigations bureau. Investigators are still searching for the bag.

http://wonkette.com/434933/loughners-annoying-dad-bothered-him



Loughner was driving a 1969 Chevy Nova Oct. 13, 2008, the Republic said, when a witness saw him get out of the car and write a symbol on a street sign.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/01/10/Loughner-earlier-arrested-for-graffiti/UPI-68681294700079/?pvn=1#ixzz1AqHPXilP

[JDPriestly]

18. Wonder what that black bag in the trunk of the family car contained.

I suspect the father knew. It must have been something pretty bad if the father ran after his son.

Yet the father did not call the police. This is probably why we have not heard form Loughton's parents.

[TwilightGardener]

3. Weird, I just said this yesterday:

"Slightly off topic, but I'm ever grateful that violent nutjobs also tend to be shitty drivers
with broken tail-lights. Seems to be how many of them get caught, either before or after."

Another guy who intended to kill liberals was stopped by police in SF because of erratic driving.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=174472&mesg_id=174533

[ElsewheresDaughter]

5. interesting....and why did he shave his head and eyebrows after his arrest?....does someone want him

to look like a total wacko (which he is) but when he was arrested he had hair and the in his perp photo he looks really scary....just asking who made the decision to make him look as strikingly looney as Uncle Fester? Himself either before or after he went on his shooting spree? Or his captors after he was put behind bars?

[Kali]

7. I was wondering about this too

how do you know he had hair when he was arrested?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

11. it's what I gleamed from this article...identified at the time of his arrest and by witrnesses as...

Loughner was described by eyewitnesses at the Arizona shooting as a young white man who looked like a "fringe character," in his mid-to-late 20s, clean-shaven with short hair and wearing dark clothing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/jared-lee-loughner-gabrielle-giffords-shooter_n_806243.htmll

[jakeXT]

12. thanks for the article

I didn't find anything on hair, but there was this story about Ward/Sorensen
Did he have a motorized bike, why did he knew were Sorenson lived? Sorensen used to work in a mental institution, if I remember correctly.




She said a man who looks just like Loughner showed up at her house on a motorized bike in August.

"We live in such a remote area that no one ever comes up here," Ward told The News.

"We both think it was (Loughner), but we are not 100% certain."

Ward said the man stopped a few feet away from the house and stared at her through the window.

"He just looked at me with this slight smile. He was just looking at me for a long time," she said. "He looked crazy as hell, but at the same time he looked like a little kid."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/10/2011-01-10_jared_lee_loughner_alleged_tucson_gunman_had_others_fearing_for_their_lives.html

[ElsewheresDaughter]

13. another eye witness and reported about the scene " short dark hair"....

Loughner was described by eyewitnesses at the Arizona shooting as a young white man who looked like a "fringe character," in his mid-to-late 20s, clean-shaven with short hair and wearing dark clothing.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

14. he was shaven after his arrest....hell they even shaved his eyebrows off....why?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/jared-lee-loughner-gabrielle-giffords-shooter_n_806243.html

[jakeXT]

15. Maybe he looked like this

[AtheistCrusader]

17. Perhaps he had lice?

Dunno. Interesting question.

[Bragi]

24. I think it's traditional Arizona prisoner abuse /nt

[ElsewheresDaughter]

26. to shave the eyebrows too?

[Bragi]

28. Sure

Keeps prisoners from using their eyebrow hairs to make a rope and escape.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

29. lol...stop you're killing me

[dogfacedboy]

27. Probably to de-louse the piece of white trash.

[shraby]

6. Maybe he had no need for it after his plan was put into

motion. He had enough ammo to last until the police arrived, it's just possible he was counting on them to kill him..suicide by cop.

[jtuck004]

8. No outstanding warrants, yet within hours of being a homicidal maniac. n/t

[alp227]

9. If the driver were Hispanic, per SB 1070 he'd have to show his ID or go to jail

I bet that at dinner tables conservatives wish that the shooter were an illegal immigrant instead of a white citizen so that their agenda of "secure the borders! no amnesty! deport all 12 million!" can be advanced.

[Mark Maker]

16. He did show his ID and registration and probably

proof of ins. That's how the officer ran a wants and warrents.

I don't think he's Hispanic either.

[The_Casual_Observer]

10. He took a Cab probably because he knew he would be leaving the car

there for good otherwise. However, he went out of his way to make change of the $20 for the Cab Driver. Why would he do that?

The guy wasn't rational on any level.

[jakeXT]

19. Getting 20$ changed is like buying a two way ticket by a 911 hijacker

[Blue Owl]

20. Was it Loughner (his voice) that called the cab?

Seems very odd -- could someone else have been planning this event and he was just the 'actor'?

[truth2power]

21. There are some very puzzling things about all this. Sorry, but

it needs to be said. What happened to his hair? His parents could probably clear that up. Did he have hair that morning? Did the police give him a razor so he coule shave his head and his eyebrows? Not likely. Strange!

[enuegii]

22. I can not believe that the police would shave his head and eyebrows

and then take his mug shot. That makes no sense. Mug shots serve to preserve a record of how the suspect appeared at the time of the arrest. Why alter his appearance?

[truth2power]

23. I suppose someone will be along shortly to say we're engaging

in conspiracy theories. This place seems to be crawling with those who don't want certain things discussed these days (generally speaking).

But it's a reasonable question. Witnesses described him as having hair. Now, I know eyewitness accounts are notoriously flawed, but I can't imagine not noticing or recalling that a man was bald and had no eyebrows.

What in the world?

[Bragi]

25. Prisoner abuse is standard practice in Arizona

Shaving prisoners when taken into custody is fun for the cops and jailers. It also starts the all-important dehumanization process right from the get-go.

[Peace Patriot]

32. I think it is a very legitimate question why Loughner was CHANGED from an ordinary looking

young man into a "skinhead."

We need to know if shaving ACCUSED prisoners' heads is standard in that county, if shaving CONVICTED prisoners' heads is standard and this was done to Loughner because he clearly wasn't going anywhere, or if--by chance-- he was taken to a barber, in the course of booking him, and ASKED for his head to be shaved and the barber accommodated.

Whose decision was it?

And, if it was Loughner's, it is yet another question about him. Was he "hearing voices" telling him to do things--that is, loonybins? Was he making conscious decisions to become a mass killer and maybe decided that now he should look like one, and join all the other bad guys with whom he was now associated? Was he "programmed" and responding to brainwashing suggestions? It seems a stretch but it IS possible that, if he is some sort of "Manchurian candidate," this was one of the minor commands he was given. And, if it wasn't Loughner's decision, then we have to wonder whose decision it was and why.

It is my understanding that Loughner hasn't spoken a word since the shootings. If so, his request for a head shave would be an opening that no investigator should pass up--and he shouldn't have EVER been out of the investigators' presence during processing.

Perhaps his lawyer could clarify this matter. Was his head shaved against his wishes, or against his lawyer's wishes, or before his lawyer had a chance to say something about it? And if Loughner asked to have his head shaved, why? It is certainly prejudicial against him.

A general question: Who would it serve? (And I don't think the answer to that is obvious or would necessarily be simple--there are a variety of parties, political and legal, who might be served by portraying Loughner as a "fringe skinhead"--including possible "handlers" who want his apparent ravings to be seen as far rightwing--possibly an effort to induce a "liberal" government to be more repressive, incur more rightwing anger and thus to spin our civil life out of control?).

We've got to consider all the possibilities in an event like this. For a long time, when I was young, I thought Lee Harvey Oswald was a "Commie."* Just shows you HOW effective this kind of public narrative disinformation can be.

---------

*(James Douglass' book, "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died And Why It Matters" is very enlightening in this respect (and in every other respect--what a great book!). The CIA set up the JFK assassination misdirection to Russia as the perps, because they wanted to pressure his successor, LBJ, into nuking Russia. The CIA and the Joint Chiefs were livid at JFK for not nuking Russia while we had the chance--while we still had missile superiority--during the Cuban Missile Crisis. This and JFK's backchannel contacts with Krushchev and Castro, his abhorrence of a potential Armageddon, his firing of the CIA Director after the Bay of Pigs and his vow to "smash the CIA into a thousand pieces," and some other fundamental MIC issues (Vietnam included), were why the CIA decided that JFK was a "traitor" and killed him.

Douglass establishes that LBJ found out almost immediately that the CIA had done it and of their misdirection to Russia, did not want to be pressured into nuking Russia, and thus agreed to and participated in the coverup. Three days after JFK's assassination, LBJ is reported to have said, "Now they can have their war." He was talking about the CIA and Vietnam. Most people think that JFK went along with the U.S. buildup in Vietnam. He did not. And Douglass proves it to my satisfaction. There never would have been a Vietnam War, had he lived--nor an Iraq War, for that matter. Everything would have been changed for the better after the 1964 election and the American peoples' big endorsement of JFK's plan for world peace. LBJ won that election, overwhelmingly--one of the biggest mandates in presidential history--as the "peace candidate." I remember. That was my first vote for president. But LBJ was lying through his teeth. What I got for my peace vote--and what we all got--was over 55,000 U.S. soldiers killed and some 2 MILLION southeast asians slaughtered, before it was all over. JFK would not have been lying. He thought the American people would be with him on world peace--end of all the proxy wars, nuclear disarmament. And we would have been. That's the "why" of "why it matters." It STILL matters.

In any case, when you think of THAT misdirection, that everyone believed--that CIA asset Oswald was a "Commie" and that Russia sent him to kill JFK--Russia, whose Premier was in backchannel contact with JFK on a peace plan--you begin to understand how easy it is to misdirect people and that this is part of the standard toolkit of the CIA. Douglass is simply brilliant on this issue--tracking down every false trail that was laid to Russia.)

[truth2power]

33. It's strange, isn't it? I've thought about most of your questions..

they beg to be answered. If it's true that LE regularly shaves the heads of their arrestees then I want to hear it, preferably from Loughner's lawyer.

Yes, JFK: The Unspeakable is an interesting book. I dismissed the idea of Oswald being a major player long ago. And I have thought about a Manchurian Candidate, but since one is not allowed to think outside the box around here just forget I mentioned it.

[jakeXT]

34. Why is he getting the lawyer of McVeigh and Moussaoui ?

her client Timothy McVeigh was executed in 2001 for his role in the Oklahoma City bombing — she has an impressive track record, including seemingly lost causes like Kaczynski, the so-called 9/11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui and Atlanta Olympics bomber Eric Robert Rudolph. All three faced the death penalty; all three are now serving life

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2041943,00.html#ixzz1Auch3TPQ

[Downwinder]

36. Court appointed. All the locals had worked with the Judge. n/t

[Peace Patriot]

30. That AZ fish and game officer sure is lucky!

I imagine that he's been feeling quite awful since the shootings, for not...well what? There is really nothing he could have done--but if it had been me, I'd still be berating myself for letting him go, despite the irrationality of it.

And then there is his own luck that it wasn't this shooter's big day. He was a rep of authority, a uniform, a target. This poor guy probably has some survivor's guilt as well.

My heart goes out to him and to all the victims of these horrors.

[truth2power]

35. I don't mean to obsess over this, but I tend to hang on to things

until I get a satisfactory answer from somewhere.

Loughner's mug shot, as posted on the internet, is so shocking and horrific, almost like something out of "Slence of the Lambs", yet not only was he described by witnesses as having hair, but (and I just recalled this last night) there was an artist's rendering posted on DU this weekend of his first court appearance, showing a rather normal looking individual, with hair.

This would have been after he was processed into the system and photographed, so the "inmate abuse" argument fails on that basis. Was that pic we've all seen not really his mugshot? If not, then what's the purpose of falsifying what he looks like?

And regarding his court appearance, why weren't TV cameras allowed? In my part of the world, that's generally the case.

Yes, this is relevant. If there are a lot of loose ends and anomalies, I want to know why.

[jakeXT]

31. Officials: Frenetic morning for rampage suspect

TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) — For Jared Loughner, the morning of the deadly shooting rampage was a blur of activity.

He hustled to Walmart twice. He ran a red light, with the officer letting him off with a warning. Back home, he grabbed a black bag from the trunk of a family car and fled into the desert on foot, his suspicious father giving chase.

Later, Loughner took a cab to a Safeway supermarket and began squeezing off round after round into the crowd.

..

The new details about the way Loughner spent the morning showed a harried young man dashing from store to store across this southern Arizona city in the hours before the shooting that shocked the country.

Nanos said Loughner made two trips to Walmart and made some purchases. He declined to specify what Loughner bought.


..

"What he did and the morning before the shooting, we're just trying to find all that out. Naturally, we want to find every detail we can," Nanos said, adding that Loughner may have made other stops that morning but could not specify what they were.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gO7OJue27JRzKVtsuUUkkvODpyAw?docId=2c6251e41e9944118e7d159b8c8055c4