Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Jared Loughner 'frightened' Motel 6 clerk on eve of Tucson shooting

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
jakeXT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 03:07 PM
Original message
Jared Loughner 'frightened' Motel 6 clerk on eve of Tucson shooting
Source: Washington Post

Jared Loughner 'frightened' Motel 6 clerk on eve of Tucson shooting

..

Loughner checked into the motel at 12:29 a.m. on Jan. 8, police said, before criss-crossing the city buying ammunition, developing pictures and stopping at gas station convenience stores. Loughner, wearing a baseball hat, approached the hotel's check-in window, made of bullet-proof glass, and used a credit card to rent the room, paying $43.71, according to a source with knowledge of the investigation.

The 22-year-old struck the hotel's overnight front-desk clerk as strange. The clerk told authorities he did not appear to be under the influence of drugs but "was just messed up," according to the source, who spoke only under the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the investigation.

A few hours after checking in, Loughner was seen pacing along the motel's first-floor hallway - long and straight, with blue swirl carpeting and a white popcorn ceiling. The desk attendant asked him what he was doing, but he did not reply. The clerk told investigators about being "scared" and that "he gave off an aura that frightened me," the source said.

...

This clerk's reaction to Loughner is significant, the source said, because the hotel regularly attracts some abnormal guests. Several days prior to Loughner's visit, a guest used the bed to barricade himself in his room - Room 415, a few doors down from Loughner's room - and committed suicide by shooting himself in his head, according to the source.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/15/AR2011011501922.html?hpid=topnews
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
crim son Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. I would think the prior suicide would make his reaction less significant.
After dealing with that it would probably take very little to freak him/her out. Poor clerk.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreeStateDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. After the fact memory of this nature may or may not contain a level of post stress embellishment...
Edited on Sat Jan-15-11 03:30 PM by FreeStateDemocrat
Finding out later that the character that was acting a little strange at the time was a mass killer might tend to color the sinisterness of his actions in recalling the incident later but then I'm not a shrink, "just sayin'."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
3.  I like Motel 6s -- most of 'em anyway.

Anyone else?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Miss_Underestimated Donating Member (239 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Or was it the Motel 666????
Edited on Sat Jan-15-11 04:54 PM by Miss_Underestimated
:hide:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. hehe
I was thinking the same thing

you know what they say about twisted minds...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maritimer Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. The last one I stayed in
had old blood stains on the sheets. Big ugly blood stains. Not like an unexpected "time of the month" accident (sorry ladies), but like someone got cut or shot. That was it for me! No more cheap motels if I can help it.

For business, I can stay in nicer places, fortunately, and I do.

Hotel/motel staff have indeed seen it all. If this night manager was upset, there was certainly good reason to be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
4.  sounds like that place needs to be Exorsized........
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jakeXT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. A Jigsaw Picture of an Accused Killer
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. 'We'll leave the gun out for ya'...

yikes
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blandocyte Donating Member (830 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. ^^^ That's too funny.
You rock.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
8. Has anyone had this thought rise up in their thoughts when they read
about his high anxiety? Mancurian Condidate? Set-up? We sure have a tradition in this country. And much film - probably actual - Ruby, dicumentaries, fiction, unanswered questions documented in videos?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. no
sorry

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. Yes. And this is the first bit of the story that I've seen (Loughner getting a motel room)
that could point to contact with "handlers," if there were "handlers." Away from his home and parents; anonymous motel room, where anybody could have met him without someone noticing. Contact with "handlers" could have happened at a lot of different times/places prior to his change of personality, but in the specific prep the night before the horror at Safeway, a motel room would be one of a number of possible "safe" prep locations--for "handlers" putting the final touches on their "monster" or for Loughner acting alone. A motel room could be a "safe" location for Loughner acting alone in a calculated fashion or even in a crazed state (needed a place to plan, and to stoke himself up in private). So it doesn't prove anything. But it does make me wonder. If you are "controlling" somebody, what are your options for a "safe" place to make extended personal contact, at a crucial moment, if you deem that necessary?

I also think it's possible that Loughner's crazy statements were the result of "programming" of an already vulnerable young man, rather than mental breakdown of his own. There is something almost "too crazy" about them--as if they were an exaggerated version of somebody's idea of how a crazed person would think. Almost a cartoon. Something about them doesn't ring true. Maybe he's a VERY calculating psychotic and laid a trail for a psychological defense long before he took action and killed people. But the things that don't ring true could also have been planted suggestions, in a psychological conditioning, i.e., creation of a "Manchurian Candidate" (someone who could be directed to do what he did), and/or, it could have been in the interest of "handlers" or part of their plan, to make it appear that he was loony-toons.

There was a lot of political bloodshed over the past two weeks--top Defense Dept consultant John P. Wheeler found in a landfill in Wilmington, DE (expertise in cyber-security and cyber-warfare, nuclear weapons security, air space security, bio-chem weapons and the SEC; current job at MITRE Corporation as a cyber security/warfare consultant; he was also the force behind the Vietnam War Memorial) and Ashley Turnot burned to death in her BMW in her own garage in DC (wife of Obama liaison to the House, lobbyist for Progress Energy, which, on the day of her death, signed a $13 billion deal with Duke Energy, which has a new aviation facility that MITRE, a big high tech gov't aviation specialist, could be involved in). Giffords had proposed a bill banning the sale of military aircraft on the open market. So there are some potential connections here between all three events.

It was Wheeler's murder on Dec 30-31 that got me looking into this. I have to admit that I've been LOOKING for a "states secrets" assassination motive in Wheeler's case, and just stumbled across the possible connections to Turnot and Giffords. One other thing I've stumbled upon: Recent disclosure in a closed Senate hearing that the Air Force failed to advise the Senate on some cyber warfare ops of theirs. The closed hearing was to question Michael Vickers, nominee for Asst Sec of the AF. He said that the AF didn't disclose their cyber warfare ops because the law requiring disclosure to the Senate didn't mention this technology, but, "if confirmed," he would be sure to review the law to suggest changes.

The AF has been hiding something, and the two who are dead and the one who almost died all have possible connections to it. Maybe Giffords wasn't a personal target of Loughner's nor a random target, but a specific target connected to these other two targets, Wheeler and Turnot. Giffords was on every relevant House committee that would have touched on cyber security/cyberwar. Was she investigating the matter? Was her bill aimed at banning high tech drones on the open market that were being secretly and illegally tested by the AF for private Defense contractors? This bit from the Vickers hearing could point to significant crimes that, in turn, could point to motives for murder of anyone who knew about the matter, who might have been intending to expose or stop it.

Wheeler, by the way, was involved--I believe as an investigator--in the Minot air base nuclear incident (2007). He seems to have been some kind of internal investigator of big government messes--which may account for his many different kinds of expertise. (His report on bio-chem weapons is what got those weapons banned.) West Point grad. From all accounts, a straight-arrow military guy, but definitely an "insider." Ends up in a landfill--thrown out with the trash. Police say he was murdered, but so far no cause of death, no crime scene, no autopsy/tox report, no suspects.

A lot of questions. Few answers. But it most certainly has occurred to me that the random bloodshed around the attempt to kill Giffords was intended to distract from investigation of the other two murders--to get them out of the newsstream, get the spotlight off of them, while the perps cover their tracks and skulk away--and to occupy everybody with a 'civil war' about guns, Free Speech and vitriolic politics, in a very hurting moment for all of us.

If there is a connection, and if this was a conspiracy to kill all three--Wheeler, Turnot and Giffords--and to distract all of us while somebody turns billions of our R& D tax dollars into trillions in private profit in weapons--then it may well mean that Loughner was being controlled in some way.

Given the history of the U.S. over the last 50 years, and the very out-of-control MIC of today, I don't think it's at all crazy to suspect such a thing, and I think it warrants a full investigation of every aspect of the Wheeler and Turnot murders and the attempted murder of Giffords. (Wheeler's death has been designated a murder by the police. I don't think Turnot's has been--but a BMW spontaneously combusting surely is a suspicious circumstance, especially in the case of a key player in a $13 billion energy/aeronautics deal).

As to your specific question--does evidence of Loughner's high anxiety point to his being "programmed"? I don't know the answer to that question, and I would imagine that high anxiety could be a characteristic of anybody planning to kill others, rational or irrational. I am rather more struck by Loughner's calm than his anxiety. It's one of the reasons that Loughner's truly crazy statements strike me as contrived or planted in his brain by hypnosis. He was thinking this totally incoherent, 'off the planet' stuff, and yet methodically going about buying ammunition, a high-powered weapon and getting a motel room? And then, when he's brought down at the scene, he says, "I take the Fifth!"

His story is so contradictory--so hard to make even loonytoons sense of. It is the contradictions in his story that I think may point to "programming"--not his high anxiety but the fact that someone who could not construct a coherent English sentence could follow the steps--1, 2, 3--of buying ammunition and a gun, getting a motel room, hiring a cab, giving the cabbie change and then shooting Giffords point blank in the head, shooting and killing six other people, including a child and wounding many others. His writings point to the inability to do this. He can't get from point A to point B. His brain is scrambled. You find such people on the street, homeless, suffering mental illness and mumbling things to themselves. You don't find them shooting congresswomen and then saying, "I take the Fifth!" His story doesn't add up. It is this combination of anxiety/incoherence (utter incoherence), on the one hand, and cold, calculated, methodical action, on the other, that make me suspect that his mind--his ability to think rationally--and his self-control--his ability to assess what he was doing and control his own actions--have been deliberately messed with.

His utterly incoherent statements about grammar and numbers point not to thought but to hypnosis, someone using grammar and numbers to confuse him--someone playing upon his interest in esoteric subjects to gain control of him. Yes, it could be self-hypnosis. But I don't think someone deliberately messing with him can be ruled out, especially at this early stage of things, and IF there was a motive to kill Giffords--someone else's motive, not Loughner's--then we have to consider how Loughner was used as the weapon. That's what I'm trying to get at, above. WAS there such a motive? His aiming at Giffords first, point blank to take her out, SEEMS to be related to his own nuttiness and grievances. But was HE aimed--by someone else--AT Giffords? WAS there motive to do this and could it be connected to these other murders?

At present, it stands on thin reeds--Giffords' bill to ban the sale of military aircraft on the open market, and her membership on numerous relevant House committees. Did she have a staff of investigators who might have been onto something with regard to secret AF cyberwar, Duke Energy's new aeronautical facility and/or Wheeler's work at MITRE on cyber-security/warfare? Was she or her staff in contact with Wheeler or with Turnot on this or some other matter that could have led to their deaths? These are questions that need investigating before the notion of a connection between Wheeler's murder, Turnot's probable murder and Giffords' attempted murder can be taken further.

I can't know if this IS what happened--a murder conspiracy involving Wheeler, Turnot and Giffords. I'm in no position to investigate and find out. All I can do is assemble information from available sources, on what the victims were doing that could have created motives for their murders, and try to answer the question (partly because of the time proximity of these events--all within two weeks): Are there possible related motives for killing each of these people? The answer at this point is yes: there IS possible connecting motivation. But we need a lot more investigation to judge whether a connection is likely or true--and, on that connection, which rests on thin reeds, at the moment--the question of Loughner being a controlled assassin arises.

Yes, people can go nuts and do great harm, all on their own. Is that what happened in Arizona? I don't know, but my mind is open on this question until Wheeler's murder and Turnot's probable murder are solved, to my satisfaction. Also, I think that the forces that could be behind these horrors are quite capable of creating a robot assassin--AND, that the billions and billions of dollars to be made in cyber-security/cyber warfare weapons and aircraft would be quite a plausible motive for doing so, if that profit was threatened.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Too late to recommend,but it's not too late to KICK this up. Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. I see many OPs;
And news articles that paint Loughner as a crazed person. While this is probably the case, I believe he was more a 'guided missile' than a thoughtless weapon without a cause.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jakeXT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. He likes to shake hands and be remembered
And employees at the Sacred Art Tattoo shop would not forget that day in November — the same month in which Mr. Loughner bought a Glock — when he walked in wearing jean shorts and a muscle shirt and holding up a 9-millimeter bullet that he said he wanted replicated on his right shoulder.

It took less than a half-hour and cost $60. And when it was done, Mr. Loughner insisted on shaking the artist’s hand.


...

“Do you always remember everybody you pick up?” Mr. Marino recalled the man asking.

...

Mr. Marino got in line at the customer-service desk, behind someone cashing in a winning lottery ticket. He received a few bills for the $20 and handed Mr. Loughner a $5 bill — meaning his tip was 75 cents. The cabdriver would later wonder why, considering what was about to happen, his passenger didn’t just let him keep the $20.

Before going their separate ways, Mr. Marino recalled, Mr. Loughner asked, “Can I shake your hand?”

Sure.

“And I noticed his hands were really sweaty,” recalled the cabdriver who had seen all types. “You know?”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/16/us/16loughner.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. Quite an article, thanks nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. Bates Motel
Night clerking in roadside motels is dangerous business, as the bullet-proof check-in window indicates. The first motel I ever saw with a drive-in-bank type window was near LAX in the late 1970s, and it was awful.

A friend of mine was murdered (throat cut) while night clerking at a seedy motel in Alabama in the early 1970s. He was working nights and taking university classes during the day.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bengalherder Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. Whose credit card?
Where did he get the money for a glock and extra magazines?

I've not heard of a job, nor does he sound sane enough to hold one down.

Did his parents just give him a huge allowance, or what?

Somebody paid for all of this, and I'd love to know who, and if Loughner, how?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. He is 22 years old.
There is no reason he couldn't have had his own credit card.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bengalherder Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I know.
But who was paying the bills for it?

There has been nothing said about this hale young 22-year-old holding down employment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jakeXT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-11 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. He bought 7 boxes of ammo and probably tossed them into a dry riverbed near his house
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4696746#4696918


to fill all his clips he maybe needed only 1 1/2 boxes


Why buy so much and why did he want the money from the cab driver?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. I don't know why Mr. Loughner wanted change from a taxi driver,
Edited on Sun Jan-16-11 01:37 AM by LisaL
or why he apparently bought more ammunition than he needed, but I think it's fair to say Mr. Loughner isn't the most rational person in the world, is he?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC