Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Venezuelan govn't may regulate private firms' profits

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
nalnn Donating Member (528 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 10:03 AM
Original message
Venezuelan govn't may regulate private firms' profits
Source: EL UNIVERSAL

A newly created Superintendence of Costs and Prices seeks to control the profits of private companies, said Noel Álvarez, the president of the Venezuelan Federation of Trade and Industry Chambers (Fedecámaras), Venezuela's main business association.

"It appears that the only goal of this agency is to control corporate profits and prices of goods and services," the business leader added.

According to Álvarez, no additional economic controls will boost supply and curb inflation. "As long as actions are taken to discourage supply, as is the case now, there will be less variety of products. In turn, waning supply will result in increased prices of goods and services," he said.

Last Saturday, Venezuela's President Hugo Chávez raised the possibility of creating a Superintendence of Costs and Prices within the framework of the enabling law, in order to fight speculation.

Read more: http://english.eluniversal.com/2011/01/19/en_eco_esp_venezuelan-govnt-ma_19A5008331.shtml



I've never read much about Venezuela in the news. Is this a good source?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. El Universal is an outlet for the opinions of Chavez opponents.
If that is what you want to hear, it's a good source.

Venezuela is one of those places where there is no "good source" these days, it's a very polarized discussion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nalnn Donating Member (528 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks
Got it. Thanks.

In that case, make of this what you will. It sounded sensational and I hadn't seen it posted yet so...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. What I recommend is that you visit www.venezuelanalysis.com.
It is a pro-Chavez site but provides solid information on the government's polices, grass roots movements (the real power in Venezuela--the people), occasional very good guest comment/analysis and sometimes even criticism. (It is a leftist site so the criticism is from the left.). It also has links to other informative sites. (Z-net is a good one.)

This at least gives you "the other side."

Our corpo-fascist press (which controls international coverage) is universally not just bad but VERY, VERY bad on anything to do with Chavez and Venezuela, and increasingly on anything to do with the leftist movement and other leftist leaders in Latin America. I'm talking OUTRIGHT LYING, as well as incredibly devious journalistic methods of lying-but-not-appearing-to. It's so bad that I've re-named them all: The New York Slimes (the worst), the Associated Pukes, the Wall Street Urinal, the Washington Pest, the Miami Hairball, Rotters, El Not Universal, Globoblur and the Alphabet Soup of corporate TV.

You have to compare these two versions of reality, to decide what you think. One of the most informative analysts is Mark Weisbrot. I strongly suggest you Google him and start with his excellent reports and articles, to provide you with a fact-based foundation for evaluating the corpo-fascist coverage.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I like COHA when they something to say too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. COHA is very good. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-11 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
34. venezuelanalysis is pro-Chavez propaganda
I live in Venezuela, and I recommend outsiders read as much as possible from diverse sources. El Universal is definitely anti-government, but venezuelanalysis is definitely a propaganda agent for the Venezuelan government.

Mark Weisbrodt is also a pro-Chavez propagandist, most of what he writes has clunky statistics (for example, he picks through statistics to make the government look good).

The question one has to ask in this case is: Did the Venezuelan government do what the report says? We need to wait to read the text of the new law (I haven't seen the official version in Spanish), and we also have to wait to see what the government does once the law is in place.

I would also recommend you use "cold blooded indicators". When it comes to the Venezuelan economy, one of the best sources of information is the price of Venezuelan bonds - and today those bonds are considered extremely high risk by the market. This isn't an indicator given by the "corpo fascist press", it's given by individuals whose main focus is to make money no matter what. These guys will make a deal with the devil to make a buck, and therefore the bond spread is an excellent indicator. And if they think Venezuela's economy is at risk, then they are doing so because they think the government is making bad moves. Other simple indicators are Venezuela's oil production as reported by OPEC - the government reports figures nobody trusts, Venezuela's foreign currency holdings, Venezuela's inflation rate (it's supposed to be the highest in the world), and Venezuela's GDP (it's negative as of last quarter).

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
socialshockwave Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. To be fair...
Won't this just be another nail in the coffin for Chavez? I admit, I'm an opponent of his government - and it seems that regulating how much money businesses can make will lead to a shortage for the Venezuelan people - more so then there is now. If businesses are told they can only make this amount of $ per year, it might lead to their leaving the country, and thus lost jobs and economic opportunities as well.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Chavez is not dead yet, by a long shot,
And regulated economies work better than unregulated ones, so it depends. State planning, the total top-down approach, is what does not work as well, although even that can work well enough for a time.

You may, however, be sure that Chavez' opponents will do their best to create or allow shortages to develop, and then blame them on Chavez and his policies. If fact they will do that regardless, even with no shortages.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
47. Chavez isn't dead, but the Venezuelan economy is badly hurt by Chavez
The regulation we're discussing here is excessive. It involves regulating prices of goods in an economy with 30 % inflation, heavily dependent on imports, and with currency controls which use three tiers - one of which is an unregulated black market which is so heavily penalized it's illegal to put a price quote on the internet or mention what the exchange rate is - right now it's running at almost twice the official rate.

The proposed price regulation commmittee is indeed a top down exercise. I suppose you don't listen to government speeches or watch the state TV channels, but I do. And it's clear these guys believe in a communist command system and state planning. I think there's a conflict near the top, with more pragmatic socialists fighting against fidel castro-style arch communists, therefore their behavior is erratic. When you mix in the corruption and lawlessness, the regime even has fascist properties - they don't mind keeping a company around if it does exactly what they want, or if they can put their cronies in charge.

This thread has been hijacked by people discussing Venezuelan TV and other issues, it's the technique the chavistas use to avoid serious discussion about a particular topic, so I'm glad to see you did respond honestly - even if I think you are missing the extreme position taken by the government, and you just don't get how the system has already been jammed by the high inflation rate, excessive labor regulation, price controls, and currency exchange controls. In today's Venezuela, when you couple these to the nationalization threat, and the high crime rate, it's easy for a businessman or entrepeneur to give up.

Regarding the reaction by the middle class when the government threatens its existence, it's evident they don't like Chavez. I find most Venezuelans to be fairly naive, they are patiently waiting for the 2012 elections to vote Chavez out. They don't realize that communists seldom give up power on their own, and historically they have morphed into a dictatorship.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. I don't watch TV at all. Maybe a movie with my wife once in a while.
I have long since stopped getting worked up about deficiencies in government, I live in the USA where the principles of waste and corruption govern all.

I think the main point to keep in mind is that whatever happens to Chavez' revolution eventually, the old regime is not coming back.

I will confess I am most interested to see the results of the next election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. Right. Venezuela should be the free market paradise we enjoy here.
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
socialshockwave Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Not saying it should be totally unregulated,
but that there should be a way for government and business to work together to bring about a better standard of living for its people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. LBJ cut poverty in half here during his presidency.
Chavez has done that much and more. Still a lot to go, though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #18
53. Venezuela should be free, period
The question is whether Venezuela can be free when an autocrat rules the country, national assembly districts are gerrymandered to make sure the government's party wins, and the president enjoys dictatorial powers conceded by a national assembly which doesn't exist anymore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. telesur is a Ven government funded site if that is your inclination
El Universal translates articles into English which is valuable. not sure about Telesur. Venanalysis is more of blog for chavistas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I've read some of the "articles" on Veneanylsis
they don't even pretend to be objective

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. send me the links
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. So I, as being completely different, keep the links to everything I read?
That's not likely.

My files are overflowing with the articles by people I respect. No room for the ones by authors I know to be "venemous anti-Chavez clowns."

Thanks, just the same.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. venezuelanalysis publishing a non chavista... NO WAY!
Wake up, it's a sect
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. post one of the articles by Gustavo Coronel or another "venemous anti Chavez clown"
who has written an article for Venanalysis
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Please see my comment below. You think the New York Slimes are objective about Chavez?
Or the Wall Street Urinal? Or the Associated Pukes? Or Rotters? Or any of these corporate ruler/war profiteer propaganda machines parading as 'news' organizations?

There is no objectivity to be had. That is the problem. So you need to read "the other side" even if you consider it biased, in order to have any notion of what is going on in Venezuela and with this huge leftist movement throughout Latin America (with ALLIED leftist governments in Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, Uruguay, Paraguay, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala and, until the U.S.-supported rightwing coup, in Honduras).

You want to remain ignorant? Fine. I didn't. The corpo-fascist press didn't satisfy me. All the while they were railing against Chavez, Chavez kept getting elected, by big majorities. This piqued my curiosity. So I sought out every alternative view of Venezuela and was very grateful for www.venezuelanalysis.com. It was the first site I consulted and it helped me to understand just how biased the information we get is. It has a great archive of articles, by the way. Don't just dip your toe in, get all huffy at something that strikes you as not "objective" and go away. Check out the "other side" of past news stories. Check out some of Mark Weisbrot's reports. Get as much of an understanding of the "pro-Chavez side" as you get from our press of the "anti-Chavez side."

One article I read there, early on, was written by an American who happened to be in Venezuela during an election, and described their whole election process, and this helped me to understand that Chavez really was elected--no shenanigans. Venezuelan elections were not just certified by every reputable election monitoring group in the world, but ALSO, were open, above-board and transparent on the face of the facts. (I know something about election systems.)

I could not get this information from our corpo-fascist press. They HATE the Chavez government and don't report such things because it doesn't suit their agenda. They also cover up the facts about our own election system--which is run on 'TRADE SECRET' code, with 80% of the voting machines in the U.S. now controlled by one, private, far rightwing-connected corporation--ES&S, which just bought out Diebold--and with virtually no audit/recount controls. Most Americans are ignorant of this! I needed SPECIFICS on the Venezuelan system, which is also electronic, and found out that it is an OPEN SOURCE code system--the code is owned by the public and subject to public review (by all interested parties)--and they do a whopping 55% audit (comparison of ballots to machine totals)--over five times the minimum needed to detect fraud in an electronic system (according to experts whom I respect). The American visitor mentioned all these facts about Venezuela's system from personal observation. It was essential information to my judgement of Chavez and his government. You'd never find this in our press. It just isn't there. They don't want you to know that Venezuela's system is transparent and ours is not.

This helped me as to evaluating OUR system as well. 'TRADE SECRET' code--code that the public is forbidden to review--is NOT necessary to counting the votes electronically. OPEN SOURCE code is the alternative to that (and what we should be doing--that or old-fashioned, hand-counted paper ballots). There IS an electronic alternative.

All this from ONE article at venezuelanalysis.com. I can't tell you how important that information was!

You gotta have desire, I guess--the desire to know more, the desire to give "the other side" its due, if there are no objective sources. The desire to expand your mind and figure out what's really going on in the world. Why are Lula da Silva and Chavez close friends, if Chavez is a "dictator" (the relentless meme of our press)? Why did Lula say, of Chavez, "They can invent a lot of things to criticize Chavez but not on democracy!" What was our corpo-fascist press NOT telling us?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. www.venezuelanalysis.com is NOT a "blog." It is a systematic news site that reports
political developments in Venezuela. Its news articles quote the opposition or summarize what they have to say, if that is relevant, and provide statistics, the proper names for things (government agencies, legislative bills, etc.), full names/titles of officials, proper dates for events, the details of specific events, general trends and so on. They follow a standard news format for news articles, written in proper English or very well translated Spanish. It is a very informative site which provides "the other side"--i.e., the actions and policies that have gotten the Chavez government elected twice, by big margins, victorious in a USAID-funded recall election, by a big margin, and defended by tens of thousands of Venezuelans when the U.S.-supported rightwing coup came down.

This is the perspective that we NEVER EVER find in ANY news or opinion article in the corpo-fascist press here, worldwide or in Latin America. They are EXTREMELY and UNIFORMLY biased not just against Chavez, but also against the people of Venezuela, who have repeatedly elected Chavez and his government.

They have NEVER explained his popularity. They have NEVER given him a chance. It is all propaganda, all the time, as far as Chavez and his government are concerned.

And THAT is why people who want to be informed should read "the other side." You want to be propagandized "know-nothings" about Chavez, Venezuela and the Latin American left and remain ignorant of the most important political movement in the western hemisphere? Stick with the corpo-fascist media and don't try to find out what that movement has to say about itself. Your choice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. corpo-fascist media
as opposed to the governmental fascist media in Venezuela?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. What a crock. The media in Venezuela is still largely owned by the opposition. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. The majority of TV STATIONS in Venezuela are owned by the State (and closely controled by the Party)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-11 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Since when has television been the only kind of media?
Or is Venezuela a really strange place where print and other media just doesn't exist?

The state television stations in Venezuela sound no more 'closely controlled by the Party' than the ABC and SBS does here in Australia, the BBC in the UK, or any other publicly owned tv station....

I dunno, maybe Americans won't be happy till Rupert Murdoch's ridden in and saved the day and made the Venezuelan media as 'free' and unbiased as the US media is?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-11 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. You have never watched Venezuelan TV, right?
State TV's main program in Venezuela: La Hojilla (the razor blade)

Triple Chavez head (more than double Bolivar:)) with his magic hand and his flag-star-halo reaching us, the happy red people, under the benevolent look of Jesus Christ, Lenin, Fidel and the Che.
:rofl:

You're right, it's so similar to the BBC!!!


On Venezuelan State TV, only Chavez's party politicians appear and the TV hosts (like the one in the picture, Mario Silva, among others) are candidates for Chavez's party during the elections.

I don't know what the hell has Murdoch to do with this but... whatever makes you happy, as they say!

Actually, maybe you're right, we're such a primitive binary people down here that we only have a choice between Chavez-TV and Murdoch televisual corpo-fascism.

You have never watched Venezuelan TV, right?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Marengo Donating Member (296 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #32
49. LOL! Hugo has a halo (in the mural) N/T
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. There was a pic of Obama a few weeks back that I saw
with the presidential seal like a halo around his head, looking up at him, you know. I thought about posting it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-11 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. I don't think you have ever seen Venezuela's state owned TV
I wonder if you speak Spanish, or if you have ever seen state owned TV in Venezuela. I watch it to make sure I know what they're up to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. WHAT "government fascist media in Venezuela"?
The government has a channel with a very small percentage of the TV audience, a public broadcasting group (Telesur, comparable to NPR but much better), and some public radio stations, mostly community run.

Rightwing, corpo-fascist corporations own most of the broadcasting stations in Venezuela, and often use their power for scurrilous purpose, as do our corpo-fascist broadcasters. One of theirs--the one that lost its license to use the public airwaves, RCTV--actively participated in the 2002 coup attempt! You should take a look at the documentary, "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised," which lays out exactly what they did. Others have called for another coup and even for Chavez's assassination. They cross over the line all the time and they dominate the airwaves.

One of the things they did during that coup d'etat attempt was to disallow any member of the Chavez government from speaking on TV! The coupsters had also sabotaged and cut off the government channel. The LEGITIMATE government could not speak to the people! That's how much the fuckers who control most of the broadcasting in Venezuela care about "free speech"!

You are very, very misinformed.

I would like to see a restoration of some form of the "Fairness Doctrine" that we had here in the U.S., when I was young. To EARN their license to use the PUBLIC airwaves, broadcasters were obliged to provide objective, politically neutral news coverage, BALANCED political discussion and public service--and they were forbidden to form media monopolies and media conglomerates.

Corporations have NO "right" to use the public airwaves. Unlike human beings, their speech can be controlled and IS controlled in every country in the world. How much to control it for the "common good" is an important question. But we have, in the past, required FAIRNESS. And we should do that again. Corporate media monopolies in the U.S. have gained TOO MUCH power to control public debate! That is very dangerous power, in the hands of the few!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-11 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. What you're saying is not correct. There are 5 State TV Stations in Venezuela
4 of them were created by Chavez (Telesur, ViVe, ANTV, TVes).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-11 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. 100% True. I live in Venezuela and the majority of the TV stations are State-owned.
People saying otherwise are simply lying.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
39. How about we have some facts about Venezuelan TV rather than rightwing propaganda?
See Tables 1 and 2 in the article. Here are portions of the text of this informative and footnoted article:

-----

Television in Venezuela:
Who Dominates the Media?

by Mark Weisbrot and Tara Ruttenberg (12/13/10)

It is commonly reported in the international press, and widely believed, that the government of President Hugo Chávez controls the media in Venezuela. For example, writing about Venezuela's September elections for the National Assembly, the Washington Post's deputy editorial page editor and columnist, Jackson Diehl, referred to the Chávez "regime's domination of the media. . . ."1 In an interview on CNN, Lucy Morillon of Reporters Without Borders stated, "President Chávez controls most of the TV stations."2 And on PBS in November 2010, former Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs Roger Noriega stated that the Venezuelan media is "virtually under the control of Chávez."3 Such statements are made regularly in the major media and almost never challenged.

Table 1 shows the evolution of Venezuelan television audience share from 2000-2010. There are three categories: private broadcast channels, which are privately owned and available on broadcast television without payment; the state channels, which are run by the government and also broadcast without payment4 by the viewer; and private paid TV, which includes cable and satellite, for which the subscriber must pay a fee; and other paid programming that is being watched during the time of the survey.

As can be seen from the table, as of September 2010, Venezuelan state TV channels had just a 5.4 percent audience share. Of the other 94.6 percent of the audience, 61.4 percent were watching privately owned television channels, and 33.1 percent were watching paid TV.

Since the private TV owners are mostly against the government, it is clear that more than 94 percent of the TV that is seen by Venezuelans is not pro-government. In fact, much of the private media is stridently anti-government, in ways that go beyond the boundaries of what is permitted in the United States, for example.5 There are no data that describe the breakdown of audience share of the various TV channels on the basis of political bias. However, it is clear from this data, based on household surveys over a 10-year period, that statements about the Venezuelan government "controlling" or "dominating" the media are not only exaggerated, but simply false.


(MORE)

http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2010/wr131210.html

------------------------

I base my opinions on facts, not rightwing corpo-fascist propaganda. I respect these facts, from an investigator and analyst whom I have found to be reliable, and who is willing to--goes out of his way to--prove things, not just yammer about them in one liner, hit-and-run posts.. Living in Venezuela does not give anyone's opinion more weight than anyone else's, on a matter like this. A Venezuelan, or someone living in or visiting Venezuela, can be just as much of a rightwinger and/or propagandist for Venezuela's business interests and/or U.S. multinational corporate/war profiteer interests as anyone else. Nor can we verify what anyone says about themselves here at DU. We have to judge posters by what they write here, not be what they say about where they live or who they are.

I know who are the typical rightwingers and/or anti-Chavez posters at DU, and I judge their views accordingly. Some of them are venomously anti-left and anti-poor people. Some of them use extreme, hate language like Mad Tea Partiers. Some of them betray themselves by calling leaders who are socialists, running mixed socialist/capitalist economies, like Chavez, "communists." Some of them are less obvious but never express sympathy with the poor majority in Venezuela or anywhere else, never acknowledge the huge anti-poverty and public participation achievements of the Chavez government, or any other of their achievements or the achievements of the Venezuelan people as to running clean elections and grass roots organization, and they never post anything that is even neutral on Chavez. Their sources are always the corpo-fascist press, which is 100% propagandistic on Chavez and nearly so on the entire leftist movement in Latin America and its other leaders. These posters are exceedingly uninformative. They are the echo-chamber of the corpo-fascist press. And they cannot sustain discussion or debate.

It is VERY IMPORTANT that we understand the issue of private corporate control of the public airwaves--here, in Venezuela or anywhere. We used to have a Fairness Doctrine in the U.S. that required politically neutral news coverage, BALANCED political opinion and public service, as conditions for the PRIVILEGE of using the public airwaves. Corporations have NO "right" to use our airwaves. They require a license from a public agency which can place requirements and restrictions on what they broadcast. This is the case in virtually every country in the world. The stringency of those conditions is a matter for public discussion and public policy-making. In addition, the U.S. used to exercise strict control over media monopolies--so that no private business interest could control all the news and opinion in a given market. Although public control remains on the books, most of our public interest regulation has been deliberately and systemically eroded and destroyed.

Understand that this business about Chavez being "anti-free speech" is entirely driven by forces who don't want to see public regulation of corporate propaganda return, especially here in the U.S., or anywhere else. They want to retain the power to control public debate, to keep leftist ideas off TV and radio--as well as out of the print media that they monopolize--to bias the news in favor of corporate profit, privatization of the public "commons" and war, and to literally brainwash and disempower their viewers in every way imaginable.

Chavez wants "free speech." They don't! Get it? They are LYING to you.

In Venezuela, one corporate broadcaster--RCTV--actively participated in the 2002 coup attempt. (See the documentary, "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.") That coup immediately suspended the constitution, the courts, the National Assembly and all civil rights. And, after they kidnapped Chavez and sabotaged the existing government channel, RCTV and the other corporate broadcasters would not permit any member of the Chavez government on TV. The legitimate, elected government was banned from the airwaves!

That's how much they care for "free speech"! It is bullshit.

RCTV rightfully lost their license because of their active role in the coup (and other violations). The remaining corporate broadcasters are mostly extremely anti-Chavez, extremely biased--no balance at all--and sometimes edge over the line toward another coup. The Chavez government has sought to achieve some little balance by improving and creating public stations including many community-run radio stations. They need to have a Fairness Doctrine, as we once did. And we need that, too, obviously.

Unchecked corporate power over the public airwaves allows them to control public debate and force it further and further to the right, as they have plainly done in the U.S., and right off the cliff into a fascist coup, as happened in Venezuela. Such corporate power over news/opinion is not only very bad for democracy, and for the poor/middle class majority, it is extremely dangerous.

Venezuela has had the failsafe of a transparent vote counting system. We don't. Venezuela has had the further failsafe of an active, well-organized grass roots movement. We don't. Despite horrible corporate media and an outright coup attempt, Venezuela was able to elect and re-elect their "FDR" and restore him to office when he was ousted. We don't have those failsafes. Our votes are 'counted' using 'TRADE SECRET' code, owned and controlled mostly (80%) by one, private, far rightwing connected corporation--ES&S, which just bought out Diebold. And our media has gotten to be almost as bad as Venezuela's. We have been forced into two awful wars--indeed, into a Forever War--have seen ourselves mercilessly looted and plundered--and are now looking at the possible loss of the Social Security on top of everything else--with, as yet, NO grass roots movement to counter it. The lethal combination of 'TRADE SECRET' vote 'counting' and 100% corpo-fascist media may be leading us off a steeper cliff than Venezuela went over, in 2002. There may be no way back.

Please bear all this in mind the next time you see something in the "news" about Chavez and "free speech." Remember who is controlling that "news." Remember their stake in keeping control of the public airwaves THEMSELVES. Understand that they don't want "free speech." They want CORPORATE speech and ONLY corporate speech to be heard. And they fear Chavez, more than anybody, because he and his government and the Venezuelan people have said, "No! " to corporate monopoly of the PUBLIC airwaves.

Don't let the corporate 'news' monopolists (or their echo chamber here at DU) confuse you! Seek out facts from alternative sources. Think, analyze, question your 'news' sources, and make up your own mind, with your own reasoning powers bolstered by a wide range of information.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-11 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. That's an old cheat, I believe. It's the number of channels that count, not the audience.
The logical fallacy is obvious. Do you think people watch TV out of coercion?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-11 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Interesting that Weisbrot and Rottenberg do a study with verifiable data and you just
offer an opinion.

Table 2 in their report lists 32 private TV channels and 6 state channels in the latest sampling (2010). Are you disputing these numbers?

http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2010/wr131210.html

This is what I mean by FACTS vs opinion. Yes, I am a leftist. Yes, I want the Bolivarian Revolution to succeed. I think it is comparable to our "New Deal" revolution--beneficial for most people, strong attitude of reining in the powers of greed and "the few" in favor of the many. But that doesn't mean that I don't investigate things. Early on, I was open to the possibility that Chavez rigged the vote counts. So I looked into the matter and discovered overwhelming hard evidence that Venezuela's elections are transparent, honest and aboveboard. FACTS not opinion--unless you are a nutball Venezuelan or U.S. "Tea Partyist" and simply can't absorb facts and live in the "Alice in Wonderland" world of U.S. and Venezuelan corporate media, where facts don't matter, where the 'a priori' position is anti-Chavez, and where NOTHING--absolutely nothing!--of the Chavez government's impressive achievements in economic growth, poverty reduction, education, health care availability and public participation have EVER been reported. Nothing. Nada. Not one!

Is it any wonder that I entertained the notion that Chavez maybe cheated on the vote counts--thus prompting me to look into the matter? Absorbing the relentless anti-Chavez propaganda here, how could anyone figure out WHY Chavez was elected, re-elected and won the recall election, all by big margins? That isn't the only thing that the corporate press has LIED about, by black-holing EVERY accomplishment of the Chavez government, but it is a telling one. Because IF Chavez has been elected, re-elected and won a recall election, all by big margins, and those elections were transparent, honest and aboveboard, then there have to be REASONS why he won the overwhelming support of Venezuelan voters. What were the REASONS? There was NO CLUE in the corpo-fascist press. Incomprehensible, indeed, mindboggling hostility to Chavez in the face of his overwhelming popularity in Venezuela.

Two and two did not add up, in the corpo-fascist press. That's how they earned the name "corpo-fascist" from me. This is what corporations do to sell their products--tell lies, over and over. This is what fascists do to brainwash the public--tell even bigger lies, over and over. It's not news. It's not opinion. It's not real debate. It's not free speech. It's propaganda--one long, 24/7 commercial for rightwing views.

This kind of lying--total lying, relentless lying, lying in the face of the facts and reason itself--wears thin after a while. All propaganda does. Propaganda is merely opinion, repeated over and over again, to numb the mind and force itself in. The human mind eventually rebels.

Basically five rightwing billionaires have gained monopoly power to bullshit all day long, in the U.S. We have 24/7 corpo-fascist propaganda. This is how they sell products. This is how they shut everybody else up and only allow their own views. They control virtually all broadcast content (including our pathetic NPR). They have become very like RCTV and are very dangerous because of it-- RCTV, which it forbade members of the legitimate government to speak on TV! That's what corporatists and fascists DO. By "free speech" they mean THEIR speech.

I am glad--I am overjoyed--that the Chavez government is fighting this. I wish WE had a government that would do so. I want the Fairness Doctrine back, by which our government acts in our interest--in the interest of the "common good"--to curtail corporate monopoly and propaganda in the broadcast media. Thomas Jefferson wanted the government to subsidize publishers, to ensure that all views were heard, back when only print media existed. I might be for that, too. I wouldn't want any government to be managing all media. But with democratic governments--and Venezuela is very much a democracy, far better than our own, in many respects--there is nothing wrong--and much that is righteous--with the government encouraging expression, establishing public media, funding producers, having its own official channel, and getting on TV and defending its policies (as Chavez often does), and publishing books as well (as the Chavez government does), as well as enforcing public licensing laws for private broadcasters. There is voluminous TV, radio, newspapers and other media promulgating rightwing views. The goal is BALANCE.

So show me some facts that a few state-run stations and broadcasters harm "free speech" or that anything that the Chavez government has done in this regard harms "free speech." Should Venezuela have all-rightwing speech all-the-time, like we do here? The corporations aren't going to allow leftists to speak. So, what's wrong with the government creating space for leftists to speak? Why did RCTV want to shut Chavez up, hm? --shut Chavez up and shut up every member of his government? Why did they do that? Tell me.

What the Chavez government is doing is challenging CORPORATE MONOPOLY speech. Why is that bad?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. The data shown in the linked article is outdated outdated outdated outdated outdated outdated
That's old data. It's 2011, bud. Today the government has most of the TV channels. They may not get the audience because the majority of the people don't back the government. This is why Chavez is now considered an autocrat who is slowly evolving towards dictatorship. If you want to learn about the process, read about the rise of Julius Cesar in Rome.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #42
54. So Weisbrot and Rottenberg confirm what I said (there are 5 State TV Stations in Venezuela)
You said : "The government has a channel with a very small percentage of the TV audience, a public broadcasting group (Telesur, comparable to NPR but much better), and some public radio stations, mostly community run."

To that post, I replied: "There are 5 State TV Stations in Venezuela. 4 of them were created by Chavez (Telesur, ViVe, ANTV, TVes)."

Table 2 shows exactly that.

OTOH, I disagree with them when they include neighborhood TV channels, sport channels, music video channels, praying channels, community channels and children channels in their list of the 32 private channels. That's why I exclude Catia TV (public but marginally accessible) and only include Venevision and Televen (national), Globovision (almost national) and eventually CMT and Telecentro (accessible in all Caracas and central coast cities), to make a coherent list of relevant Venezuelan TV Stations.

What I find important to understand is that private channels are not a homogeneous group at all.

Globovision is 100% anti-Chavez and heavily partialized.

Venevision (1st in audience) has been playing neutral since the amnesty after the 2002 coup. It's still mildly pro-opposition but has fired almost all of its openly anti-Chavez journalists/ hosts. Cisneros, the owner, makes money and doesn't deal with politics anymore. Hardcore oppositionists call him a traitor and hardcore chavistas still hate him even if Chavez has long ago stopped mentioning him.

Televen's situation is particular. They have some openly anti-Chavez hosts but, at the same time, they have opened their spaces to top chavista politicians. For example, former vice-President José Vicente Rangel has a weekly political show on this channel.

So, to answer your question, I believe that all corporate monopolies in all sectors should be dismantled. IMO, their elimination is a necessary condition for equity and democracy. But the situation in Venezuela is particular. Since the coup in 2002, things have dramatically changed. The government has ended the concession of the main private channel and obtained from the 2 other big private channels to considerably moderate their line and even to include a weekly show from J.V. Rangel. In the same period, 4 countrywide public channels which are explicitly chavista have been put on air.

Therefore, I think that, internally, the balance you mention is now more than established in Venezuela. At the same time, I think that public TV shouldn't be used as a tool for a single political party. Maybe that's why the 5-6 public TV channels have so little audience in Venezuela. People get tired of the constant "revolutionary vs. counter-revolutionary" language. Something positive? I think Telesur is a very interesting achievement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Embarrasing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. I can't remember whether it was Nixon or Ford who tried to institute wage and price controls in the
US :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. it was Nixon
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-20-11 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Who can forget WIN (Whip Inflation Now!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whip_inflation_now

We have come a long way since then.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #19
45. We sure have
Price controls usually fail, people work around them, or they lead to scarcity. The only thing a government can do is cushion hard price swings - but price controls should be reserved for truly catastrophic events, when they are needed to save people's lives or the nation itself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CJvR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
25. Well you can't...
...outlaw inflation, that have never worked for anyone.

You can make it seem like it is working for a while, if you are ruthless enough and the goods are not to easy to hide on the black market.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-11 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
33. That's been done in the UK in the past
Edited on Sat Jan-22-11 09:11 AM by dipsydoodle
Its no big deal. Sweden too I believe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-11 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. And it ruined their economy
This is why they don't do it anymore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Not really
but it create some oddities such as when a price reduction leads to an increase in profit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-11 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. It did ruin the British economy, this is why they don't do it now
And it's not such an oddity to reduce prices and increase profits. It's done when volume goes up. You see, the problem as I see it is the inability some people have to visualize market dynamics, supply versus demand, regulatory practices, etc. The Venezuelan regime, being run by confused communists, is ruining the country's economy - this is why today Venezuela is the only nation in Latin America with a negative GDP growth curve PLUS record inflation (the highest in the world). The ruin they have brought upon the nation is going to destroy its society. As they say, Venezuela delenda est.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-22-11 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Its always confused communists with you.
Isn't it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Communists are confused
Let's put it this way, I'd rather believe they are confused rather than bad guys.

Don't forget I know them close up - I was studying Marx by age 12.

I have debated with communists for years in serious forums, and I also taught a seminar in Russia teaching ex-communist officials about modern economic principles. To be able to disassemble their marxist education, and rebuild their knowledge base, I had to understand marxism and why it doesn't work, explain it to them, and show them why capitalism was a better option.

It's hard to generalize, but what i see in communists is a naive ignorance of the way things work in modern life, as well as no understanding of human nature and the way our DNA is wired.

Marx was wrong for the 19th century. His ideas are even worse for the 21st. And when it comes to 21st Century socialism, it's also wrong. But if you want to learn about it, why don't you read Heinz Dieterich? You'll see even the founder of 21st century socialism writes scathing commments about Chavez.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #44
48. If only you had arrived a few days earlier, you would have been able to post
with another poster who quoted Heinz Deiterich freely, and continually. He had SO MANY shared views with you. He claimed to live in Spain yet had a powerful wish to discuss Hugo Chavez, and to condemn Cuba as often as humanly possible.

You would have surely enjoyed him greatly. Just look up "Bherrera" if you have any interest in the deep thoughts of the constant commenter who visited us so briefly, only for several months, posting only 600 times before being brought down in his prime by unforeseeable circumstances.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
social_critic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #48
52. Must have been my cousin Bherrera
I bet my first cousin was posting from Spain. He came to visit Venezuela and was horrified.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-23-11 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #44
55. Oh please! And capitalists aren't?
Neoliberalism is pure manipulative dogma!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC